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Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

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    gnostikos's Avatar Limited Member
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    Unhappy Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

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    Hello,I'm very new to this forum and would like to be a Muslim but I have some reservations about a serious belief in it. I feel an almost 'nationalistic' sense within me to the Indo-Europeans [Zoroastrianism, Vedas] to be more of a 'natural' religion to me and what my ancestors believed. I feel it would be a sense of betrayal to replace the holy men of those religious doctrines with those of an 'enemy' the Semites [Arab, Jew, Assyrian, etc.]. I do not like the materialism or capitalism of the West at all and I do not like the hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia and the gulf states either. I would like to Settle in Xinjiang among the Uyghurs which is why I am learning Mandarin but it seems as though that region is Sunni Islam the one most closely associated with the extreme Salafist and Wahhabi sects. I believe in God but I do not believe that Muhammad received his revelation through the angel 'Gabriel' rather I feel it was more of a malevolent force for he himself in some of the hadiths I have read feared it was a demon too. I really just want a tight-knit traditional family that is as free of Western influence as possible (and still safe from someone of Indo-European descent ie not most of the Middle East either among the Uyghurs of Xinjiang or Kazhks). How can I justify betraying thousands of years of what my ancestors believed because an 'enemy' (Semitic) conquered a region and changed it from Buddhist, Christian and Manichean to Islam? Why is more than half of the Qur'an in a tone that uses fear to try to inspire awe rather than the love that is in the New Testament? Another reason for the want of conversion to Islam is that it is a necessity to marry into the culture. I also dislike how strongly Arab Nationalism is associated with Islam though I can see why it has been for historical reasons.

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    gnostikos's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

    Edit: I should say that there was a period of time about 9000 BCE When the Semites and Indo-Europeans were together in Anatolia as one but some either religious or sexual taboo happened that further split them from that point on.
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    Supernova's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

    I'm not sure if you writing an autobiography or have questions. Can you please ask your questions in a more direct manner without insinuations
    Many thanks
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    gnostikos's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

    I don't feel there were any insinuations at all? I asked my questions at the end but I will spell it out for you since you like to put idea into my words that weren't there. Why is there such strong Arab Nationalism associated with Islam at a point where it should be disassociated as it further alienates those who are not Arab? Why is more than half the Qur'an in a tone that inspires awe through fear instead of love ala Jesus in the Gospels? Why should one whose ancestors [Indo-European] who believed in the philosophical Upanishads as outlined in the Vedas and the Gathas of Zarathustra trust that a Semitic religion [Islam], a race we have been 'at war' with for more then 7000 years since a sexual or religious taboo was broken in Anatolia (now Turkey) and enacted a genocide upon the Indo-Europeans [Islamic conquest of the Middle East]? Why do you believe that angels (if it was truly Gabriel speaking cannot lie) and not a malevolent being from another dimension?
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    Re: Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

    why would you want to be muslim?

    a man can hold any belief he likes.. and quite happily walk a path for the rest of his life..

    if you feel adversity or are the cause of it.. then its altogether a different story.

    why does something become "the enemy" ?

    i myself feel that the world as a whole turns without reason..

    if you feel there is a philosophy to the machine and its workings then.. why not hold onto it?

    to me it is a cruel place very far from enlightenment.

    and yet..

    its only this path that has made me feel this way.

    the most unjust.

    honestly i see a lot of different people..

    but only when they turn up here can anything be said and done.

    ..
    ...
    ...seriously? the mexicans are going to pay for the wall?


    its funny to live two lives.

    but if we made prayers we know which one we would like to keep.. by choice.

    and its a perfectly reasonable dream to persue.

    ..
    . I really just want a tight-knit traditional family that is as free of Western influence as possible (and still safe from someone of Indo-European descent ie not most of the Middle East either among the Uyghurs of Xinjiang or Kazhks).

    ...well, dont we all o_0
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 03-16-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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    Re: Indo-European, Semitic Animosity sincere Questions

    format_quote Originally Posted by gnostikos View Post
    Hello,I'm very new to this forum and would like to be a Muslim but I have some reservations about a serious belief in it.
    Hello, welcome to the forum.

    The reservations stem from a lack of knowledge.

    I feel an almost 'nationalistic' sense within me to the Indo-Europeans [Zoroastrianism, Vedas] to be more of a 'natural' religion to me and what my ancestors believed.
    There is no nationalism in Islam. Fire worshipping (zoro) is not natural, nor is worshipping statues or mythlogical creatures (vedas).

    I feel it would be a sense of betrayal to replace the holy men of those religious doctrines with those of an 'enemy' the Semites [Arab, Jew, Assyrian, etc.].
    A truthseeker seeks the truth even if it with the enemy. You sense of loyalty is misplaced in superficial things. Allah is the the truth, everything else is false regardless how dear it is to you.

    I do not like the materialism or capitalism of the West at all and I do not like the hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia and the gulf states either.
    All of that has nothing to do with religion, those social-cultural-political entities.

    I would like to Settle in Xinjiang among the Uyghurs which is why I am learning Mandarin but it seems as though that region is Sunni Islam the one most closely associated with the extreme Salafist and Wahhabi sects.
    Xinjiang used to be an empire of it's own and was never part of China. They are be oppressed by the Chinese. It's not an ideal place to live if you want to practice Islam. I suggest reading up on it.

    There are no extreme salafis there and there is no such thing as wahabi sect, that is a construct of the orientalist and their deobandi indian slaves.

    I believe in God but I do not believe that Muhammad received his revelation through the angel 'Gabriel' rather I feel it was more of a malevolent force for he himself in some of the hadiths I have read feared it was a demon too.
    What you read was his initial response to the very first contact.

    Prophet Muhammad was in solitude in the cave on Mount Hira. He was startled by the Angel of Revelation, Gabriel, the same who had come to Mary, the mother of Jesus, who seized him in a close embrace. A single word of command burst upon him: ‘Iqra’ - ‘Read![1]’ He said: ‘I am not able to read!’ but the command was issued twice more, each with the same response from the Prophet. Finally, he was grasped with overwhelming force by the angel. Gabriel released him, and the first ‘recitation’ of the Quran was revealed to him:

    “Read in the name of your Lord who created -created man from a clot. Read: for your Lord is Most Bountiful, who teaches by the pen, teaches man that which he knew not.” (Quran 96:1-5)

    Now, is that something a demon would say? Demons either posses you or harm you, not call you to your Lord.

    As he descended, he heard a great voice crying: ‘Muhammad, thou art the Messenger of God and I am Gabriel.’ He looked upwards, and the angel filled the horizon. Wherever he turned, the figure was there, inescapably present. He hastened home and cried to Khadija: ‘Cover me! Cover me!’ She laid him down, placing a cloak over him, and as soon as he had recovered himself a little he told her what had happened. The Prophet was in fear for himself. She held him close and solaced him:

    “Never! By God, God will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your relatives, help the poor, serve your guests generously, and assist those hit with calamities.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)

    She saw in her husband a man God would not humiliate because of his virtues of honesty, justice, and helping the poor.

    For a desert dweller to see such a giant of a figure, covering the sky, it's only natural to be freightned at first sight. But if you are basing all your belief on this one instance of a moment then you have lot to learn. Reading the Quran is usually a good point to start.

    I really just want a tight-knit traditional family that is as free of Western influence as possible (and still safe from someone of Indo-European descent ie not most of the Middle East either among the Uyghurs of Xinjiang or Kazhks).
    You will find tight-knit traditional families in the west as you will find very western influenced families in the east. It all depends on how that family is raised. Family is what you make it.

    How can I justify betraying thousands of years of what my ancestors believed because an 'enemy' (Semitic) conquered a region and changed it from Buddhist, Christian and Manichean to Islam?
    The pagan Arabs used to say the same thing, 'how can we give up gods of our forefathers and follow you'. It's not a matter of following the old blindly or believing what the enemie is preaching, rather it is about seeking the truth no matter who has it and accepting it no matter who does or doesn't.

    Why is more than half of the Qur'an in a tone that uses fear to try to inspire awe rather than the love that is in the New Testament?
    On what basis are you stating that premise? have you read the Quran?
    The Quran condmens oppression and violence, calls for peaceful habitation, but at the same time gives permission to fight for justice and for your rights.

    To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;

    (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will). [Quran 22:39-40]

    Fight in the Way of God against those who fight you, but do not go beyond the limits. God does not love those who go beyond the limits. {Quran 2:190]

    "O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well acquainted with all that you do." [Quran 4:135]
    Another reason for the want of conversion to Islam is that it is a necessity to marry into the culture.
    It is not necessary to marry into the culture, it is however required if you want to marry a Muslimah. Culture and religion are two different things.

    I also dislike how strongly Arab Nationalism is associated with Islam though I can see why it has been for historical reasons.
    To many Arabs, Muhammad was more an Arab than a Prophet. The pride on this and their Arabness over their Islam. Their nationalism has no bearing on what Islam is or says.

    Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.” [Abu Dawud]

    So if you want to convert to Islam, I would suggest doing some research. A lot of what you said is based on assumptions and misinformation/understanding.
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