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  1. #1
    sevgi's Avatar
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    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Ok. So I have this issue with prayer times. I don't particularily follow a madhab, well I am a hanafi...but anywho, that's really not the point.

    The point of my thread is to ask about the time at which hanafi's are 'supposed' to start praying Asr.

    I grew up praying at your usual Asr time. Over the past year or so, I have increased my interaction with people of different cultural backgrounds. These friends of mine claim that there are differences in prayer times...so this is what it sounds like:

    Friend one: Hey guys it's time for asr.

    Sevgi: Oh ok, let's go.

    Friend two: Hang on Sev, aren't you hanafi?

    Sevgi: Apparently...but I like prawns...

    Friend two: Well then you aren't allowed to pray until an hour after the other guys pray.

    Sevgi: Quoi?

    Friend two: Yeah man, you can't pray now. But you can pray till later so it's ok.

    Sevgi: Quoi ^ 10 ??

    ...at which point I trust that the way all hanafi people around me have been praying is correct and get up and pray.

    Recently, this has gotten annoying. I started thinking that culture has something to do with it. My friend told me that people in India do this etc. I know for a fact that Turkish people definitely haven't heard of anything like this. I asked my mum and some other people and they were like "Don't be silly, they are just trying to break up the community."

    To which I thought, "What community?" But anyways, I hope you guys understand me.

    Inshallah you can shed some light on my quarrel with this social imbalance. Yes, it is an imbalance.

    Anywho. Thanks in advance for any assistance and help you may throw at me.

    (Ok, I know that this is probably not the best tone for a post about prayer...but your brains are better than mine...just sub in your reader normalness.)

    Last edited by sevgi; 02-11-2009 at 03:20 PM.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    "'Cause I hear the whispered words
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    YusufNoor's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs



    most of the Muslims on the east side [from where i'm living] are Hanafi, most on the west are Shafi'i. we have prayer times list from the east side that have both all madhabs and the Hanafi Asr athan times.

    according to the Imam that gave me my Shahaadah, almost 3 years ago, when you are with the non-Hanafis, then pray at your usual time. when you are with the Hanifis, pray at their time.

    it's not a big deal.

    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    sevgi's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor View Post


    most of the Muslims on the east side [from where i'm living] are Hanafi, most on the west are Shafi'i. we have prayer times list from the east side that have both all madhabs and the Hanafi Asr athan times.

    according to the Imam that gave me my Shahaadah, almost 3 years ago, when you are with the non-Hanafis, then pray at your usual time. when you are with the Hanifis, pray at their time.

    it's not a big deal.

    Oh I am not worried about when I should be praying. I will continue to pray when I feel is correct.

    I just want to know the logic behind this and how seriously bound I am to praying 'an hour after'.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    "'Cause I hear the whispered words
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    I love you too"

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    Najm's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

    InshaAllah, ill see if i can get more info

    Basically for hanifi, Asr begins, when your shadow is twice the size of you

    For other Jurists Asr beings when your shadow is the same size as you

    Usually thats a difference between 40-70 mins, depending where you are in the world.

    Neither is wrong. They are both valid opinion.

    Allahu Alim

    FiAmaaniAllah
    Last edited by Najm; 02-11-2009 at 03:49 PM.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs


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    Güven's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    the Turkish(hanafi) calendars has the same Asr times like the other Madhabs though.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs


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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs



    the masjid i said my shahadah in and where i learnt most of my basics was hanafi and the imam a hanafi alim who studied at bury in the uk.

    according to him both sets of time are valid to follow, as both follow valid evidences from the sahabah, so go whichever is your local masjid. if your local masjid is hanafi then follow that timetable and stick to it, and if your local masjid is shafi then follow that and stick to it.

    if you are however with a follower of the shafi madhab, or in a shafi masjid and they are praying it is valid to pray behind them and your salaah to still be valid for asr even though it might not yet be time according to the hanafi school.

    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    even between hanafi and hanafi there is a difference of time, one mosque does fajr 15 min later then the other, so its not really a big difference,

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    there is no clear distinction for the prayers of Thuhr and Asr, meaning there is no deifinte time where Thuhr time ends and Asr time starts. It can't be measured by minutes or seconds, you could pray Thuhr then after a very short pause pray Asr, the same could be said of Maghrib and Isha, you pray Maghrib, after finishing you can start praying Isha after a few minutes since the it would be night time.
    the time for Asr begins generally after the shadow of objects is as tall as they are, this is quite vague though, and it differs from place to place, so calculating to the minute is a bit extreme.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    ” إن الأمة التي تحسن صناعة الموت توهب لها الحياة”

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    its only a few minutes different...so nothing much too worry. InshaAllah
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs



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    north_malaysian's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    there are many Hanafis living in Penang and their azan is just the same time as the Shafiis time too...

    I've prayed many times in Hanafi mosques... and i dont know of this different prayer times thingy amongst different madhhabs... in fact the Hanafis join the congregational prayers held in Shafii mosques with no problems..

    Actually, officially there is no "Shaffi" or "Hanafi" mosques... but all Penangite Muslims know that if mosque members are mostly ethnic Indians, it is Hanafite and if it members are mostly ethnic Malays then it is Shafiite..
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs


    Basically for hanifi, Asr begins, when your shadow is twice the size of you

    For other Jurists Asr beings when your shadow is the same size as you
    In case you missed it.
    Its always surprising how we are able to make the simple things, so complicated.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    O my Lord,

    if I worship you
    from fear of hell, burn me in hell.

    If I worship you
    from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.

    But if I worship you
    for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face.

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    sevgi's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Ok...

    BUT WHY is there this disctinction? Stuff like this annoy me. The fact that my friend refusesto pray with us annoys me. There is no mosque involved...we'll be sitting in a park and we pray in two groups, an hour in between.

    ?
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pomak View Post
    In case you missed it.
    Its always surprising how we are able to make the simple things, so complicated.
    are all bulgarian-speaking Muslims, Hanafites?
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by sevgi View Post
    Ok...

    BUT WHY is there this disctinction? Stuff like this annoy me. The fact that my friend refusesto pray with us annoys me. There is no mosque involved...we'll be sitting in a park and we pray in two groups, an hour in between.

    ?
    weird....
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by sevgi View Post
    Ok...

    BUT WHY is there this disctinction? Stuff like this annoy me. The fact that my friend refusesto pray with us annoys me. There is no mosque involved...we'll be sitting in a park and we pray in two groups, an hour in between.

    ?
    Have you ever heard the story that one imam shafie went to see imam hanafi..and he prayed at imam hanafi's mosque and he followed their salah.

    Why do you want to get annoyed...Islam accept differences and it should be a good thing. I don't think it is right for your friend not to pray with you.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs



    25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by sevgi View Post
    Ok...

    BUT WHY is there this disctinction? Stuff like this annoy me.

    ?
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    ” إن الأمة التي تحسن صناعة الموت توهب لها الحياة”

    正直・・・微妙

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    sevgi's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by syilla View Post
    Have you ever heard the story that one imam shafie went to see imam hanafi..and he prayed at imam hanafi's mosque and he followed their salah.

    Why do you want to get annoyed...Islam accept differences and it should be a good thing. I don't think it is right for your friend not to pray with you.
    I think I have heard that story, yes.

    I understand. I shouldn't get annoyed...I just want to know why these rulings were made by the scholars.

    Quote Originally Posted by alcurad View Post
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by sevgi View Post
    I think I have heard that story, yes.

    I understand. I shouldn't get annoyed...I just want to know why these rulings were made by the scholars.



    Basically they use different evidences(usually different hadiths) that are sometimes a little different. Where we fold our hands during salat, for example.


    anyways see this
    Walaikum assalam,

    As discussed previously at length, both times for Asr are valid in the Hanafi school. The two shadow-lengths opinion is stronger in the madhhab, as clarified at length by Ibn Abidin in his Radd al-Muhtar, and is the opinion of Abu Hanifa himself.

    However, the one shadow-length opinion, which is the position of Abu Hanifa's main students, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan, was also chosen by major Hanafi imams, as mentioned by al-Haskafi in Durr al-Mukhtar and by al-Shurunbulali in Maraqi al-Falah.

    As such, both are valid to follow when there is a need, such as if the congregation in your areas prays on the earlier time, as Mufti Mahmoud Ashraf Usmani and scholars in Damascus have explained.

    are all bulgarian-speaking Muslims, Hanafites?
    There are about 25-50,000 shia. But this is a non issue since i converted in Australia.
    Last edited by Pomak; 02-12-2009 at 12:37 PM. Reason: website, is bugged
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    O my Lord,

    if I worship you
    from fear of hell, burn me in hell.

    If I worship you
    from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.

    But if I worship you
    for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face.

  23. #19
    sevgi's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pomak View Post
    Basically they use different evidences(usually different hadiths) that are sometimes a little different. Where we fold our hands during salat, for example.


    anyways see this




    There are about 25-50,000 shia. But this is a non issue since i converted in Australia.
    Thank you so much, Pomak.

    Btw, I never asked you. Do you have any affiliation with Skh Naeem? Random, I know.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    "'Cause I hear the whispered words
    In your masterpiece beautiful
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    I love you too"

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    Ibn Abi Ahmed's Avatar
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    Re: Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Quote Originally Posted by sevgi View Post
    Ok...

    BUT WHY is there this disctinction? Stuff like this annoy me. The fact that my friend refusesto pray with us annoys me. There is no mosque involved...we'll be sitting in a park and we pray in two groups, an hour in between.

    ?
    The differences in opinion occur in the fiqh books because of the different methodologies in deriving rulings between the madahib. The usool are valid and correct and have a solid basis. The opinions of each are valid because of the vast acceptance of these Usool right from the time of the Imaams. So for example, there can be two different authentic hadeeth that speaks of the time of Salah Asr, and the Hanafis based on their usool (whilst taking into account the other sources of Fiqh: Qur'an, Ijma' and Qiyaas) reach a certain conclusion that says: 'The time of Asr is x'. The Shafiees do the same using their codified methodology of deriving fiqh from the same four sources and say: 'The time of Asr is y'. Neither are invalid because they took into account the same authentic sources, its just how they applied and understood the sources which makes them reach a different conclusion.

    Think of it this way: Your making fruit punch, you use four different fruits, a blender (mixer, fruit juicer w/e), and the result is the actual juice. The fruits you used are the sources: Qur'an, Ahadeeth, Ijma' and Qiyaas. You put them into the blender, the blender being Usool al-Fiqh, i.e. the methadology of 'blending' together the 'fruits'. You can say that each madhab has a different speed setting on the blender. Once you put the 'fruits' into the blender, you process the 'fruits' according to one of the 4 different speeds (madhabs). The juice that you get in the end is the Fiqh - the ruling according to which speed setting you used.

    Regarding these tiny differences, I don't see the need to distinguish the times to the extent that there end up being two different congregations at the same place amongst a group of Muslims! It displays a lack of priority and understanding. Unity is a higher obligation and thus the foremost priority than praying Asr at time x or time y. When you're in a place that is predominantly a different madhab, don't seperate yourself from them and cause a fitnah, just join in and pray. The issue is not something for which you need to seperate with each other for.
    Prayer time differences amongst madhabs

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

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