× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Results 1 to 16 of 16 visibility 2924

Someone Please Explain

  1. #1
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Someone Please Explain

    Report bad ads?

    "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimun [5:29]

    Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "No human being is
    killed unjustly, but a part of responsibility for the crime is
    laid on the first son of Adam who invented the tradition of
    killing (murdering) on the earth. (It is said that he was
    Qabil).

    Isn't this like an original sin like Christians?
    chat Quote

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    'Abdul Rahmaan's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pakistan
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,255
    Threads
    24
    Rep Power
    99
    Rep Ratio
    59
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    format_quote Originally Posted by DigitalStorm82 View Post
    "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimun [5:29]

    Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "No human being is
    killed unjustly, but a part of responsibility for the crime is
    laid on the first son of Adam who invented the tradition of
    killing (murdering) on the earth. (It is said that he was
    Qabil).

    Isn't this like an original sin like Christians?
    The concept of original sin in Christianity is based upon the sin of Adam. Adam sinned but was not forgiven. While the concept of original sin in Islam is based upon the sin of Qabil. Qabil sinned but didn't repent.

    So, to compare the concept of original sin in both the religions we must focus on the concept of repentance in both the religions instead of focusing on the names.

    The concept of repentance in both the religions is difference, so is the concept of original sin.
    Someone Please Explain

    لا الہ الا اللہ محمد رسول اللہ
    لقد كان لكم في رسول الله اسوة حسنة

    The Messenger of Allaah said: "Convey from me, even if it is one verse."
    chat Quote

  4. #3
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    "Say: Shall I seek Lord other than God, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any sin except against himself (only), and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing" (Quran 6:164)

    "Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens shall bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger" (Quran 17:15)

    "And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden; and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be laden even though he be near of kin, you can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen and perform prayers. And who purifies himself then he purifies for the benefit of his ownself. And to God is the final return." (Quran 35:18)

    "If you disbelieve, then God is not in need of you; He likes not disbelief for his slaves. And if you are grateful, He is pleased therewith for you. No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you what you used to do. He is the All-Knower of that which is in the breasts (Of men)" (Quran 39:07)
    chat Quote

  5. #4
    GreyKode's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    718
    Threads
    0
    Rep Power
    93
    Rep Ratio
    54
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    format_quote Originally Posted by DigitalStorm82 View Post
    "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimun [5:29]

    Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "No human being is
    killed unjustly, but a part of responsibility for the crime is
    laid on the first son of Adam who invented the tradition of
    killing (murdering) on the earth. (It is said that he was
    Qabil).

    Isn't this like an original sin like Christians?
    I believe this is the exact opposite of the original sin.

    Original Sin : We are all to pay for Adam's sin.

    This case : The first son of Adam will cary the sin of all those who murder, and this I think this is consistent with the Islamic concept that whoever invents a good action (sunnah) he will get the reward for it and for whomever does it after him, and whomever comes up with an evil innovation will carry a sin for that and the sins of all who do it after him.
    chat Quote

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    so part of our sin goes to Adam?
    chat Quote

  8. #6
    zakirs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Servant of god
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,102
    Threads
    28
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    62
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    format_quote Originally Posted by DigitalStorm82 View Post
    so part of our sin goes to Adam?
    No it won't

    "Say: Shall I seek Lord other than God, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any sin except against himself (only), and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing" (Quran 6:164)
    Someone Please Explain

    ______

    chat Quote

  9. #7
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Then how can he say "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zalimun [5:29]
    chat Quote

  10. #8
    Snowflake's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Assalamu alaykum
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,449
    Threads
    216
    Rep Power
    155
    Rep Ratio
    86
    Likes Ratio
    16

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Have you looked at other translations?
    chat Quote

  11. #9
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Yes, they all say the same thing.
    chat Quote

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    zakirs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Servant of god
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,102
    Threads
    28
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    62
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Lets study the entire thing..

    From Yusuf Ali's translation:

    Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! they each presented a sacrifice (to Allah): It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter: "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely," said the former, "Allah doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous. (27)
    "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. (28)
    "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong." (29)
    The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones. (30)
    Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets- (31)
    I guess the bold part refers to the speech of the two brothers.So i guess the underlined part is also spoken by the brother.I guess my sin refers to the brother's sin.



    Sorry if i am wrong anywhere and correct me please.
    Last edited by zakirs; 09-16-2009 at 12:10 AM.
    Someone Please Explain

    ______

    chat Quote

  14. #11
    zakirs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Servant of god
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,102
    Threads
    28
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    62
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    I guess my sin refers to raising his hand to slay the other person in self defence.??

    Some knowledgeable person , please help and tell me if what i think is right.

    "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. (28)
    Someone Please Explain

    ______

    chat Quote

  15. #12
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    but what's in question is the "drawing" and "transferring" of the sin.
    chat Quote

  16. #13
    zakirs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Servant of god
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,102
    Threads
    28
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    62
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Here the sin of raising hand for self defense to slay is transferred to the aggressor i guess.It is completely different from original sin.Logically seen its not even transfer of sin.And i guess Adam pbuh is not mentioned here.

    May Allah forgive me if i am wrong
    Someone Please Explain

    ______

    chat Quote

  17. #14
    DigitalStorm82's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    583
    Threads
    31
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    English Shakir: [5:29]
    Surely I wish that you should bear the sin committed against me and your own sin, and so you would be of the inmates of the fire, and this is the recompense of the unjust.


    This translation helps a lot vs all others.
    chat Quote

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    zakirs's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Servant of god
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,102
    Threads
    28
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    62
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    yeah .. you refers to attacker and me refers to defender right ?.. can somebody clear this up ?
    Someone Please Explain

    ______

    chat Quote

  20. #16
    newBro's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    32
    Threads
    0
    Rep Power
    88
    Rep Ratio
    59
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Someone Please Explain

    Assalamualaikum,
    You're forgetting the Hadith :
    Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "No human being is
    killed unjustly, but a part of responsibility for the crime is
    laid on the first son of Adam who invented the tradition of
    killing (murdering) on the earth. (It is said that he was
    Qabil).

    Anyone who kills has sinned. But this sin is not only added to the killer's account, but also to the account of Qaabil. As someone mentioned, it is similar to the hadith that says something to the extent that whoever initiates a good deed in which others follow, then the hasanaat of the latter will also be added to the account of the one who started the deed, without decreasing the hasanaat of those who followed in any way. And the hadith mentioned something similar about the one who initiated an evil deed.

    As for the Ayaat, for example:
    "And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden; and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be laden even though he be near of kin, you can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen and perform prayers. And who purifies himself then he purifies for the benefit of his ownself. And to God is the final return." (Quran 35:18)

    Firstly, this is a rule where no such relation, i.e. that of initiator and followers, exists.
    Secondly, this Ayat and others with similar meaning to it, refer to 'removing' the sin from the account of the evil-doer and transferring it to someone else's account, so that the evil-doer comes out as if he never did the evil that he did.

    Hope this clears up the confusion.
    Wassalam
    chat Quote


  21. Hide
Hey there! Someone Please Explain Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Someone Please Explain
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Can Some one explain this?
    By User29123 in forum General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-19-2011, 06:11 PM
  2. Can someone please explain to me....
    By BintAbee in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 07:15 PM
  3. pls explain
    By anonymous in forum Advice & Support
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-08-2008, 11:29 AM
  4. Please Explain
    By iomari in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 08-20-2007, 09:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create