Is Ayat 2:177 an important Ayat?

format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.

but thats the whole point, many times iv been humbled by people that i have no idea about.

knowledge is no indicator of importance in the real world.

good conduct and morality are used to judge between us, makes me think about what a position of authority really is.

Knowledge is vitally important in Islam, upon which actions are dependent. Without knowledge, how will one know an action is approved by Allaah (swt) or not?

I'm sorry I did not understand the relevance of what followed in your post.

Callisto,

format_quote Originally Posted by Callisto

2. Can less Tafseer educated Muslims and non-Muslims question interpretations? M.I.A. posts a link that says yes, within reason.

Would you question your doctor's advice upon going to him for help?

M.I.A.'s link does not in any way suggest we should question interpretations. It does not even talk about interpretations. It says very clearly that, 'Knowing all this makes a Muslim realize that in order to properly be able to reflect upon the Quran, he must return to the biography of the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, and the authentic Sunnah.'

There were also two questions I had about [2:177], that have been answered to the degree we want to get into them:

1. Is it mandated for Muslims to face Mecca? Yes, Allah legislates facing Mecca, but [2:177] says Al-Birr is more important.
2. Are there truths in other Scriptures that are not in the Qu'ran, that can be validated by the Qu'ran, since the Qu'ran is the cryptographic key to validate other Scripture? Yes. [5:116] is a good example of the Qu'ran invalidating common Christian belief.

At the beginning of the discussion, I made it very clear that:

When it comes to detailed interpretation of the Qur'an, this is a science in Islam and requires a great degree of knowledge and understanding. It is based upon various tools and principles, like knowledge of the Arabic language. For this reason, it is not up to lay people to interpret as they wish. Rather they must refer to the scholars who have applied the correct methodology in understanding the Qur'an.

Yet I find you are doing the complete opposite and bringing your own baseless opinions in place of consulting proper tafseer. I find this to be incredibly disrespectful towards the Qur'an and it is quite clear that you are not interested in hearing answers. The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wasallam, said, 'Verily the nations before you were destroyed by this action of yours; they would try to contradict part of the Book of Allaah with other parts. Indeed, the Book of Allaah came to confirm its verses with each other (and not to contradict them). Therefore do not reject its verses due to other verses. When you know something from it (the Qur'an), say it, and if you do not know it, then leave it to one who does know!' [Reported by Ahmad and An-Nasaai]

The answer to your first question was already quoted by yourself earlier from Tafseer ibn Katheer:

Then Allah sent revelation which clarified the wisdom behind this command, that is, obedience to Allah, adhering to His commands, facing wherever He commands facing, and implementing whatever He legislates, that is the objective. This is Birr, Taqwa and complete faith. Facing the east or the west does not necessitate righteousness or obedience, unless it is legislated by Allah.

As for your second question, the Qur'an is not cryptographic at all. For the third time, I will quote the following, which I hope you will note this time:

This Glorious Book, which Allah revealed as the Last and Final Book, is the most encompassing, glorious and perfect Book of all times. The Qur'an includes all the good aspects of previous Scriptures and even more, which no previous Scripture ever contained. This is why Allah made it trustworthy, a witness and dominant over all Scriptures.

I just want to add that being brand new as a muslim, does not mean I am brand new to history.

Islamic history is a part of Islam aswell, and one's sources and interests in this regard say a great deal. People new to Islam should start with the biography of the noble Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wasallam, and should not make heretical ideas and movements their first point of study.

we can ourselves decide what feels right in our heart.

For sure I feel I can take a little from this group and a little from that group, being new to Islam and all.

I see you have totally ignored post #9. I hope you will give that more thought. Please also take heed of the following verses of the Qur'an:

So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? [2:85]

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy. [2:208]

It seems that the only interpretations you are interested in are the improper kind. You will find that every deviant sect that has sprung forth in the history of Islam have misinterpreted verses to support their particular beliefs. Without relying on the proper methodology of tafseer, it is possible to interpret the Qur'an in any way one desires to. The Qur'an itself alludes to this when it says,

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book. In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. [3:7]

I thus leave you to make your own decision, whether it is guidance from Allaah (swt) that you seek, or your own desires that you seek to please.

There is little more that remains to be said, so this thread is now closed.