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  1. #1
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    Preservation of Qur'an (OP)


    There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

    The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

    The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah.
    Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

    Still preserved?

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    'Abd-al Latif's Avatar
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

    This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!
    No need for the hostility. Please be respectful towards others or, with respect, shut it!

    p.s the poster is a sister not a bro.
    2 | Likes OmAbdullah, Abu-Abdullah liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    No need for the hostility. Please be respectful towards others or, with respect, shut it!

    p.s the poster is a sister not a bro.
    but she walks like a man
    Preservation of Qur'an


  5. #23
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

    Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

    And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
    The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
    Upon your heart
    , [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
    In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

    Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

    To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet every year during Ramadhan.

    Narrated Abu-Huraira

    Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

    As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet . Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


    The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

    During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq , the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's lifetime.

    Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan , Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

    It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.




    I 've bolded above all those points of great Hikmah about the Glorious Quran which we need to contemplate on. The LIVE Proof of its protection and safe guarding is still a LIVING MIRACLE when a 7 year Muslim kid (non arabic)of even our days can memorize the whole Quran like millions of other Huffaz UNLIKE the other remnant scriptures not even 1/20th of it could be memorized by a Priest or a Rabbi or a pundit.


    Though the Modern academic world normally ONLY ACCEPTS & CONSIDERS as GENUINE PROOF documents which are written by EYE witnesses , even IF taking this as the ONLY criteria still the Last updated scripture, The glorious Quran will still comfortably pass this test since (UNLIKE ALL OTHER OTHER SCRIPTURES some of it (not full) were written 60 years later by non eye witnesses and some do not know who wrote it ) since the Quran was compiled with 1000's of eye- ear witnesses who had SEEN AND listened those verses directly from the blessed lips of Prophet Muhammad and writing most of them simultaneously ie written proofs of manuscripts , parchments etc that were written by them during the life time of Prophet Muhammad himself. .

    As the hadith about Abu Khuzaima ESPECIALLY MENTIONS that the two verses (9:128-129) of sura Tauba had written parchments proof ONLY FROM ABU KHUZAIMA RA which IMPLIES ALL OTHER parchments had MULTIPLE WRITTEN PROOFS (may be in 10's or 100's of written proofs ) . Just ASSUME that even if the written proof or parchments of those two verses of sura tauba was not available still its not a thing to worry since 100's or even 1000's of Sahabas (from 124000 Sahabas at the Arafa in the last Haj) had memorized the complete Quran by then and NOT to forget the Head of the team, The Young Zaid bin Thabbit was appointed in Medina by Prophet to learn hebrew to communicate to the Jews there and he did the job, Mashallah in just a fortnight , miraculously that illuminates the Calibre of this great Sahabi who was also the head of the team under Caliph Uthman during the first & final AFFIRMATION (not compilation) of the Quraishi dialect standard Quran using the same copy remaining with Hafza :RA: which was written one year after Prophet Muhammad's demise as those hadith point out too.
    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 12:44 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

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    OmAbdullah's Avatar
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

    This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!

    My question from the respectable Muslim speakers was to give me any two Quraans from any part of the world which have the difference of "kabeer" and "katheer". You as a Muslim could help this matter for the sake of Allah's Pleasure by informing them about my question. But you instead started arguing on a subject which you, unfortunately, don't know.



    Know that Allah is the Maalik and Allah is the Malik. But Allah used these great names in the surahs according to His Knowledge, Wisdom and Justice. So in the surah Al-Naas (An-Naas) Allah used the name Malik (Malik-i- nnas= king of the people) while with the Day of Judgment in surah Al-Faatihah, Allah used the name Maalik (Maalik-i Yawmiddeen= Owner of the Day of Judgment). So we must fear that Day a lot and must prepare for that Day.


    Your saying "there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent" is a proof that the preservation of the Holy Quraan is mainly in written form because Maalik and Malik are quite different in writing and those who can read Arabic will not confuse the two words together. But when it comes to the memory then mistake is quite possible. I will try insha -Allah to prove that Quraan is not written from the memories of the Hufaaz (those who memorized it). Rather it was completely written from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam as he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to dictate the Revelations to 40 or even more than 40 scribes at one and the same time. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to guide the scribes where to place the verses revealed later. So he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam arranged the whole Quraan. Then how is it possible that the parts of the Holy Quraan were lying here and there, some on papers etc. and some in the memories of the Muslims???



    I will insha-Allah prove even from the work of the present hufaaz that Quraan is not mahfooz (preserved ) in the memories. See, the imams (many of them) removed bismillah from surah Al-Faatihah in their recitations although, بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    is the first aayah of the surah Al-Faatihah.


    No one should give credit to the Ummah for preserving the Holy Quraan. The Quraan is preserved only and only by Allah especially in its written form where no one can remove the verse Bismilla... from any surah except surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) where Allah didn't reveal it.

    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Scimitar's Avatar
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    you're emotional, pipe down.
    Preservation of Qur'an


  9. #26
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post


    I 've bolded above all those points of great Hikmah about the Glorious Quran which we need to contemplate on. The LIVE Proof of its protection and safe guarding is still a LIVING MIRACLE when a 7 year Muslim kid (non arabic)of even our days can memorize the whole Quran like millions of other Huffaz UNLIKE the other remnant scriptures not even 1/20th of it could be memorized by a Priest or a Rabbi or a pundit.


    Though the Modern academic world normally ONLY ACCEPTS & CONSIDERS as GENUINE PROOF documents which are written by EYE witnesses , even IF taking this as the ONLY criteria still the Last updated scripture, The glorious Quran will still comfortably pass this test since (UNLIKE ALL OTHER OTHER SCRIPTURES some of it (not full) were written 60 years later by non eye witnesses and some do not know who wrote it ) since the Quran was compiled with 1000's of eye- ear witnesses who had SEEN AND listened those verses directly from the blessed lips of Prophet Muhammad and writing most of them simultaneously ie written proofs of manuscripts , parchments etc that were written by them during the life time of Prophet Muhammad himself. .

    As the hadith about Abu Khuzaima ESPECIALLY MENTIONS that the two verses (9:128-129) of sura Tauba had written parchments proof ONLY FROM ABU KHUZAIMA RA which IMPLIES ALL OTHER parchments had MULTIPLE WRITTEN PROOFS (may be in 10's or 100's of written proofs ) . Just ASSUME that even if the written proof or parchments of those two verses of sura tauba was not available still its not a thing to worry since 100's or even 1000's of Sahabas (from 124000 Sahabas at the Arafa in the last Haj) had memorized the complete Quran by then and NOT to forget the Head of the team, The Young Zaid bin Thabbit was appointed in Medina by Prophet to learn hebrew to communicate to the Jews there and he did the job, Mashallah in just a fortnight , miraculously that illuminates the Calibre of this great Sahabi who was also the head of the team under Caliph Uthman during the first & final AFFIRMATION (not compilation) of the Quraishi dialect standard Quran using the same copy remaining with Hafza :RA: which was written one year after Prophet Muhammad's demise as those hadith point out too.

    Brother, Assalaamo alaikum


    Keep strong and stead fast on your feet and don't hesitate in the least by the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam.The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa. The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

    So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.


    Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    Brother, Assalaamo alaikum


    Keep strong and stead fast on your feet and don't hesitate in the least by the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam.The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa. The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

    So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.
    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.

    Sister

    We are obliged to follow hadith as the info seen in them ? is'nt it , Sister ? Though that hadith that said the copy that was compiled under Abu Bakr :RA : was left with Umar :RA: and after him under the custody of his daughter and Ummul mumineen Hafsa :RA: have been noted for the past many years AFAIK. (No lies , except as seen in hadith , Allahu aalam) and It was later took over after her demise by Abdullah Ibn Umar :RA: and from him governor Marwan took over.

    So i understand your concern & DOP (similarly every Brother , sister here are concerned too, Sister ) , but we have no way left except to accept or remain silent on things of DOP (diff of opinions) or else that could lead to greater fitna as to which hadith to follow ?? Fitna is worse than killing ( Quran)

    But as I had reiterated above( I debated with a few apologetics) Proving NO BOOK ON THE FACE OF THIS GLOBE is as Protected , well documented as the glorious Quran ( Bart Erhman indirectly accepts that too) So there is nothing to worry when we accept those things that are clear cut from Sahih hadith , though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book
    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 11:08 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  11. #28
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an


    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post
    Sister

    We are obliged to follow hadith as the info seen in them ? is'nt it , Sister ? Though that hadith that said the copy that was compiled under Abu Bakr :RA : was left with Umar :RA: and after him under the custody of his daughter and Ummul mumineen Hafsa :RA: have been noted for the past many years AFAIK. (No lies , except as seen in hadith , Allahu aalam) and It was later took over after her demise by
    Abdullah Ibn Umar :RA: and from him governor Marwan took over.

    So i understand your concern & DOP (similarly every Brother , sister here are concerned too, Sister ) , but we have no way left except to accept or remain silent on things of DOP (diff of opinions) or else that could lead to greater fitna as to which hadith to follow ?? Fitna is worse than killing ( Quran)

    But as I had reiterated above( I debated with a few apologetics) Proving NO BOOK ON THE FACE OF THIS GLOBE is as Protected , well documented as the glorious Quran ( Bart Erhman indirectly accepts that too) So there is nothing to worry when we accept those things that are clear cut from Sahih hadith , though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book

    Wa Alaykum as-salaam


    First important point is that Hadeeth means the saying, actions and approvals of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The saying attached to Umar and abu Bakar radi-ya-Allaho anhum cannot be given the name of Hadeeth.


    This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam). Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......


    Your last sentence says: “though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book”


    That means there are two contradictory statements before you and you as a Muslim have to decide with wisdom and justice as to which of the two statements can be true. Obviously, only one of them can be true and the other one will be false. Now you must see which one is in accordance with the Holy Quraan and /or the Sunnah.
    The Quraan announced the perfection of Deen and the Messenger of Allah (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) told the whole Ummah that: “he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving among us two things: One was the Book of Allah and the second was his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.”



    Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???

    Here we all are tested and thus we all, as Muslims, must choose Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No matter if our friends or relatives are on the false side and insist us to be on their side.

    Thus you should seek the pleasure of Allah. You, knowingly, shouldn’t make the true statement ambiguous for the sake of pleasure of friends/relatives.

    It may be that they get impressed by the truth and accept it. Otherwise, they may be harmed by the false statement of the forgers and the ambiguity on your part. So on the Day of Judgment they will complain to Allah that you didn’t guide them clearly!

    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post

    Your saying "there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent" is a proof that the preservation of the Holy Quraan is mainly in written form because Maalik and Malik are quite different in writing and those who can read Arabic will not confuse the two words together. But when it comes to the memory then mistake is quite possible.
    That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad said:
    "‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"
    Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]

    If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
    As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en

    First one has , second and third

    All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

    The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet , and both of them revealed by Allah Himself.


    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    The Quraan was compiled by the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam in his life and he had placed a copy with Hafzah rAa.
    I have yet to receive any source for this statement.

    The lies always change but the Truth remains unchanged. I will point out to you the changes in the false forged story which is attached to Umar rAa. In the past this story said that Abu Bakar rAa put the Quraan with Hafzah rAa. But now in this thread I read in the post 16 of Aabiri-ssabeel that the Quraan compiled by Abu Bakar rAa remained with him until Allah took him and then it remained with Umar rAa until Allah took him, then it remained with Hafzah rAa.

    So the previous statement is changed and more falsehood is invented.
    Which previous statement are you speaking of? Nobody said that Abu Bakr placed it with Hafsa . See the Hadith quoted above, nobody is saying anything that goes against that Hadith except you.

    The only falsehood here is your statement that someone in the past there was some story. Where was that story?

    Again, the saying about the last two verses of the surah Al-Tawbah (At-Tawbah) is another false and forged statement which was repeated with the story in the time of Uthmaan rAa. We know that Uthmaan rAa had made 7 copies from the complete Quraan that was with Hafzah rAa. He then sent those copies to the governors of the 7 Islamic states to make more copies from them for the people and he collected all other copies from the people and burnt them because those were written by the people themselves. It was intended that all Quraans must be of the same type exactly like the copy with Hafzah rAa. So each and every letter of Quraan was the same. Thus Quraan is preserved in the written form. But the enemies who will never be satisfied due to their jealousy, again said that two verses were missing at the time of Uthmaan rAa and those were searched for with the companions and finally were found with someone. Then the liars, story-makers forgot that according their own story a full Quraan was written and compiled at the time of Abu Bakar. Then from where the deficiency of verses appeared at the time of Uthmaan rAa? So the liars and fabricators will not stop but the Muslims should not be weak to follow them.
    Please read the Hadith again. There was no deficiency of verses found during the time of Uthmaan . Where did you get that from? Are you making up stories? Or putting words in others mouths?

    The Hadith clearly speaks of the time of compilation during Abu Bakr , not Uthmaan .

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam). Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......
    Can you show us the reference from Tafheemul Quraan that a copy of the Qur'an was kept with Hafsah by the Prophet himself? I am sure you will not find it.

    This is what is written in the introduction of Tafheemul Quraan. You can also read it online here on Page 29.





    If you have a copy of Tafheemul Quraan and you find something else written there, please share the scans.



    Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???
    It is clear who is fabricating stories here. We have all provided authentic references for every statement we make. And we have also asked you to provide references for your statements, but until now there are no references given.
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post




    Wa Alaykum as-salaam


    First important point is that Hadeeth means the saying, actions and approvals of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The saying attached to Umar and abu Bakar radi-ya-Allaho anhum cannot be given the name of Hadeeth.


    This is very true that first, since long, I had read in the Tafheemul-Quraan that the copy was with hafzah rAa (given to her by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam).
    Even recently it was said that the copy was placed with Hafzah rAa by Abu Bakar rAa. I remember that we had raised the question as to why did Abu Bakar rAa place it with Hafzah rAa instead of Ayishah rAa? After that I am surprised to see for the first time in the post 16 of this thread that it remained with Abu Bakar rAa......


    Your last sentence says: “though from some hadiths its ONLY inferred The Glorious Quran was already in the form of a Book”


    That means there are two contradictory statements before you and you as a Muslim have to decide with wisdom and justice as to which of the two statements can be true. Obviously, only one of them can be true and the other one will be false. Now you must see which one is in accordance with the Holy Quraan and /or the Sunnah.
    The Quraan announced the perfection of Deen and the Messenger of Allah (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) told the whole Ummah that: “he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving among us two things: One was the Book of Allah and the second was his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.”



    Now on which side you are going to stand, on the side of Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam or on the side of the fabricaters???

    Here we all are tested and thus we all, as Muslims, must choose Allah and His Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No matter if our friends or relatives are on the false side and insist us to be on their side.

    Thus you should seek the pleasure of Allah. You, knowingly, shouldn’t make the true statement ambiguous for the sake of pleasure of friends/relatives.

    It may be that they get impressed by the truth and accept it. Otherwise, they may be harmed by the false statement of the forgers and the ambiguity on your part. So on the Day of Judgment they will complain to Allah that you didn’t guide them clearly!



    Sister,

    Just wanted to say something but i thinks its already spoken on the previous post

    I do not conclude any matter of such utmost importance WITHOUT proper daleel CLEAR CUT from Sahih hadith , not even from authors of tafheemul Quran or even Ibn Kathir or Qurtubi '' IF THEY DO NOT GIVE DALEEL FROM SAHIH HADITH'' You should also see my post on abrogation in ummah.

    So your refering as some one said or some post said does not carry any value so kindly give a link or Sahih hadith on this matter that the Copy of the Quran was placed under Hafsa RA before the demise of Prophet Yes we are OBLIGED to Please ONLY ALLAH ALONE, is our EEMAAN.

    And do not suspect any Sahabas (particularly ashara mubashara) why they did like that or this ?? ( why not Aisha RA ? ) which is a trick of Shaitan & A BIG SIN and the Caliphs have Allah's given permission to do whatever they deemed was fit for the ummah. ( you & me were not there to see what the circumstance, situation was like for their decisions) When we have to give 70 excuses for a Muslim Brother than how many excuses should you give to your Calipha RA ?

    The hadith of last sermon (bolded red) , kindly do not quote your own words but quote the direct hadith which is better to know the right text, context. jazakllah Khair
    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 01:12 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad said:
    "‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"
    Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]
    Brother

    Seven dialects and the rest of your post is agreed as correct AS PER SAHIH HADITHS available to us , except the below one i have my reservations & doubts and jazakallah in advance if you can clear them with daleel from Sahih hadith

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
    As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en

    First one has , second and third

    All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

    The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet , and both of them revealed by Allah Himself.
    Brother, I have a view that THESE differences MAINLY rose or started before (vowels were placed after nearly 100 years after the Uthmanic Script) vowels came inside the Quran since those who have got a copied copy of Uthman RA but not a reciter could have elongated or reduced its reading in some words as these 'Maliki or maaliki) as still they have near meanings . Because we know when Uthman :RA: when he sent those copies to various places with the reciters still they did not have those Vowels (for pronunciation) on them UNTILL THEY WERE ADDED A CENTURY LATER for avoiding SUCH DIFFERENCES LIKE YOU SAY ABOVE, AROSE & ALSO TO HELP THE NON ARABS PRONOUNCE IT RIGHT. So its possible some have added those vowels as per their own recitations before .Though those tabeins who would have listened from the reciters would have corrected themselves (iF in case they had any pronunciation mistake) and those NEW MUSLIMS or far away , say in Africa, who just saw '' the copied '' copy ie 2 or 3rd 3rd copy of Uthman :RA: but did not receive a reciter (teacher) could have come to their own conclusion of elongating it to Maaliki or Maliki etc since they still have NEAR meanings could have given raise to such different recitations -copies. Though Muslims attribute differences to hafs & warsh recitations but am not sure when this started ? ie after Prophet or during his presence. though 95 % of Muslims follow the hafs which is the same of the most of the sahabas.


    So kindly see you find a clear cut Proof that Prophet did read in both the ways as you have said. But its true The Quran came in 7 dialects (like American , British, Irish , Australian, Malaysian, Indian dialects in English ) since they were different tribes among Arabs so that all those Arabs who entered Islam understood The Quran well , memorized it well so that they became strong in EEMAAN , which is the basis and foundation for further propagation - dawah of Islam which Allah placed on them so Allah made it easy to them by the seven dialects at Start. But once Islam already became strong and spread far during the times of Caliph Uthman RA , by the will of Allah when the Caliph decided to make it into just one standard Quraishi dialect which was right for the whole ummah it was done so .
    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 02:04 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post
    Brother

    Seven dialects and the rest of your post is agreed as correct AS PER SAHIH HADITHS available to us , except the below one i have my reservations & doubts and jazakallah in advance if you can clear them with daleel from Sahih hadith



    Brother, I have a view that THESE differences MAINLY rose or started before (vowels were placed after nearly 100 years after the Uthmanic Script) vowels came inside the Quran since those who have got a copied copy of Uthman RA but not a reciter could have elongated or reduced its reading in some words as these 'Maliki or maaliki) as still they have near meanings . Because we know when Uthman :RA: when he sent those copies to various places with the reciters still they did not have those Vowels (for pronunciation) on them UNTILL THEY WERE ADDED A CENTURY LATER for avoiding SUCH DIFFERENCES LIKE YOU SAY ABOVE, AROSE & ALSO TO HELP THE NON ARABS PRONOUNCE IT RIGHT. So its possible some have added those vowels as per their own recitations before .Though those tabeins who would have listened from the reciters would have corrected themselves (iF in case they had any pronunciation mistake) and those NEW MUSLIMS or far away , say in Africa, who just saw '' the copied '' copy ie 2 or 3rd 3rd copy of Uthman :RA: but did not receive a reciter (teacher) could have come to their own conclusion of elongating it to Maaliki or Maliki etc since they still have NEAR meanings could have given raise to such different recitations -copies. Though Muslims attribute differences to hafs & warsh recitations but am not sure when this started ? ie after Prophet or during his presence. though 95 % of Muslims follow the hafs which is the same of the most of the sahabas.


    So kindly see you find a clear cut Proof that Prophet did read in both the ways as you have said. But its true The Quran came in 7 dialects (like American , British, Irish , Australian, Malaysian, Indian dialects in English ) since they were different tribes among Arabs so that all those Arabs who entered Islam understood The Quran well , memorized it well so that they became strong in EEMAAN , which is the basis and foundation for further propagation - dawah of Islam which Allah placed on them so Allah made it easy to them by the seven dialects at Start. But once Islam already became strong and spread far during the times of Caliph Uthman RA , by the will of Allah when the Caliph decided to make it into just one standard Quraishi dialect which was right for the whole ummah it was done so .


    The 7 different recitations are available since the time of the Prophet himself.

    It is recorded in the books that when Uthman made copies to be sent everywhere, he instructed those copies to be written in such a way that all 7 ahruf are preserved in it.

    Please see these links for detailed explanation:
    http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...on-uthman.html
    http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...-abu-bakr.html

    It says there:
    The seven Ahruf were preserved in it. See Manahil al-‘Irfan 1/246-247

    So evidently ‘Uthman –may Allah be pleased with him- was only looking to preserve all the valid recitations and do away with mistakes being made in them.

    That means, he only destroyed those new scripts that had mistakes, which must have been written by people afterwards.


    Another point to be considered is, Maliki recitation is not seen by only Qalun but by Al-Duri recitations as well. Not only that, Qalun lived in Madinah, while Al-Duri lived in Baghdad. So it is not correct to say that this difference was due to new Muslims not being able to hear anyone recite it correctly.

    Moreover, both of them also have continuous chain of transmission for the recitations of the Quran going back to the Prophet .

    This is the complete chain of Qalun written at the end of the Mushaf:


    And this is for Al-Duri



    It is important to note that the Qur'an and Sunnah, both of them have oral preservation first and then written preservation. Whenever the written copies were made, they were cross-checked with the Sahabah who had memorized the whole Qur'an to make sure that there are no mistakes in writing.



    Below are the chains of narrations in English:

    Qirâʾa from Madinah: The reading of Madinah known as the reading of Nâfiʿ Ibn Abî Naʿîm (more precisely Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Nâfiʿ Ibn ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân). Nâfiʿ died in 169 H. He reported from Yazîd Ibn al-Qaʿqâʿ and ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Ibn Hurmuz al-'Araj and Muslim Ibn Jundub al-Hudhalî and Yazîd Ibn Român and Shaybah Ibn Nisâʾ. All of them reported from Abû Hurayrah and Ibn ʿAbbâs and ʿAbdallâh Ibn 'Ayyâsh Ibn Abî Rabî'ah al-Makhzûmî and the last three reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb from the Prophet.

    From Nâfiʿ, two major readings came to us: Warsh and Qâlûn.

    Qirâʾa from Makkah: The reading of Ibn Kathîr (ʿAbdullâh Ibn Kathîr ad-Dârî): Ibn Kathîr died in 120 H. He reported from ʿAbdillâh Ibn Assa'ib al-Makhzûmî who reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb (The companion of the Prophet). Ibn Kathîr has also reported from Mujâhid Ibn Jabr who reported from his teacher Ibn ʿAbbâs who reported from Ubayy Ibn Kaʿb and Zayd Ibn Thâbit and both reported from the Prophet.

    Qirâʾa from Damascus: From ash-Shâm (Damascus), the reading is called after ʿAbdallâh Ibn ʿAamir. He died in 118 H. He reported from Abû ad-Dardâ' and al-Mughîrah Ibn Abî Shihâb al-Makhzûmî from ʿUthmân.

    Qirâʾa from Basrah: The reading of Abû ʿAmr from Basrah: (According to al-Sabcah, the book of Ibn Mujâhid page 79, Abû ʿAmr is called Zayyan Abû ʿAmr Ibn al-ʿAlâʾ. He was born in Makkah in the year 68 and grew up at Kûfah.) He died at 154 H. He reported from Mujâhid and Saʿîd Ibn Jubayr and ʿIkrimah Ibn Khâlid al-Makhzûmî and ʿAtâʾ Ibn Abî Rabâh and Muhammad Ibn ʿAbd ar-Rahmân Ibn al-Muhaysin and Humayd Ibn Qays al-ʿA'raj and all are from Makkah. He also reported from Yazîd Ibn al-Qaʿqâʿ and Yazîd Ibn Rumân and Shaybah Ibn Nisâ' and all are from Madinah. He also reported from al-'Assan and Yahyâ Ibn Yaʿmur and others from Basrah. All these people took from the companions of the Prophet.

    From him came two readings called as-Sûsi and ad-Dûrî.

    Qirâʾa from Basrah: From Basrah, the reading known as Yaʿqûb Ibn Ishâq al-Hadramî the companion of Shuʿbah (again). He reported from Abû ʿAmr and others.

    Qirâ'a from Kûfah: The reading of ʿĀsim Ibn Abî an-Najûd (ʿAasim Ibn Bahdalah Ibn Abî an-Najûd): He died in 127 or 128 H. He reported from Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân as-Solammî and Zirr Ibn Hubaysh. Abû ʿAbd ar-Rahmân reported from ʿUthmân and ʿAlî Ibn Abî Tâlib and 'Ubayy (Ibn Kacb) and Zayd (Ibn Thâbit). And Zirr reported from Ibn Masʿud.

    Two readings were reported from 'Asim: The famous one is Hafs, the other one is Shu'ba. Hafs was 'Asim's step-son and it is believed that he didn't differ from him in his reading of the Quran. 'Asim also retained the reading of his teacher Abu 'Abd al-Rahman al-Sulami and it reported that the latter had read the Quran out to the Commander of the Believers, 'Ali ibn Abi Talib. The case can therefore be made that the reading of Hafs is exactly the same as the reading of 'Ali which he inherited from the Prophet to the very last dot.

    Qirâʾa from Kûfah: The reading of Hamzah Ibn Habîb (from Kûfah as well) Hamzah was born in the year 80 H and died in 156 H. He reported from Muhammad Ibn cAbd ar-Rahmân Ibn Abî Laylâ (who reads the reading of ʿAlî Ibn Abî Tâlib, according to the book of Ibn Mujâhid called al-Sabcah - The Seven - page 74) and Humrân Ibn A'yan and Abî Ishâq as-Sabî'y and Mansur Ibn al-Mu'tamir and al-Mughîrah Ibn Miqsam and Jacfar Ibn Muhammad Ibn Alî Ibn Abî Tâlib from the Prophet.

    Qirâʾa from Kûfah: The reading of al-'Amash from Kûfah as well: He reported from Yahyâ Ibn Waththâb from 'Alqamah and al-'Aswad and 'Ubayd Ibn Nadlah al-Khuzâ'y and Abû ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân as-Sulamî and Zirr ibn Hubaysh and all reported from Ibn Mascud.

    Qirâaa from Kûfah: The reading of Ali Ibn Hamzah al-Kisâ'i known as al-Kisâ'i from Kûfah. He died in 189 H. He reported from Hamzah (the previous one) and Iesâ Ibn Umar and Muhammad Ibn ʿAbd ar-Raḥmân Ibn Abî Laylâ and others.

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.

    I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.
    To answer this, here are the scans from four different Mushaf. The Ayah is from Surah Al-Ahzab, Ayah 68.

    Hafs recitation (The most famous one everywhere)



    Qaloon recitation



    Al-Duri recitation



    Warsh recitation


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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an


    PROOFS FOR VARIOUS DIALECTS EXISTING FROM SAHIH HADITH


    Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 1848
    The same hadith has been narrated by Abu Huraira, but instead of the word laghauta the word laghita has been used. Abu Zinad (one of the narrators) says that ''laghita '' is the dialect of Abu Huraira, whereas it is '' laghauta ''.


    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 178
    Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet intended to return home after the performance of the Hajj, and he saw Safiya standing at the entrance of her tent, depressed and sad because she got her menses. The Prophet said, "Aqra Halqa! --An expression used in the Quraish dialect--"You will detain us." The Prophet then asked (her), "Did you perform the Tawaf Al-Ifada on the Day of Sacrifice (10th of Dhul-Hijja)?" She said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Then you can leave (with us)."


    Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 16 :: Hadith 116 Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik about the Qunut. Anas replied, "Definitely it was (recited)". I asked, "Before bowing or after it?" Anas replied, "Before bowing." I added, "So and so has told me that you had informed him that it had been after bowing." Anas said, "He told an untruth (i.e. "was mistaken," according to the Hijazi dialect). Allah's Apostle recited Qunut after bowing for a period of one month." Anas added, "The Prophet sent about seventy men (who knew the Quran by heart) towards the pagans (of Najd) who were less than they in number and there was a peace treaty between them and Allah's Apostles (but the Pagans broke the treaty and killed the seventy men). So Allah's Apostle recited Qunut for a period of one month asking Allah to punish them." So when Uthman :RA: 's main move was to bring a single standard copy of Quran in Quraishi dilaect , Allah aalam how seven dilaects were included there

    NOTE : about those scans in previous post of those hafs, Qaloon (Roman ) , al duri(150-246AH) , warsh, the word kabeer meaning '' great'' and katheer meaning ''more-plenty'' did not make much difference in meaning and could be from dialectal difference OR did they mean the same in their respective dialects , as in the first hadith as laghuata & laghita though they sound a bit different . Does that mean different dialects of Quran still exists !! Allahu aaalam ,but still I will stick ONLY with hafs and as per my conscience those Qaloon FROM ROME or warsh words from readers deep Africa seems foreign and better avoided when you have the most followed hafs one as authorised and as INTENDED by Uthman :RA: in the Quraishi dialect
    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 09:28 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post
    NOTE : about those scans in previous post of those hafs, Qaloon (Roman ) , al duri(150-246AH) , warsh, the word kabeer meaning '' great'' and katheer meaning ''more-plenty'' did not make much difference in meaning and could be from dialectal difference OR did they mean the same in their respective dialects , as in the first hadith as laghuata & laghita though they sound a bit different . Does that mean different dialects of Quran still exists !! Allahu aaalam ,but still I will stick ONLY with hafs and as per my conscience those Qaloon FROM ROME or warsh words from readers deep Africa seems foreign and better avoided when you have the most followed hafs one as authorised and as INTENDED by Uthman :RA: in the Quraishi dialect
    I don't think Qaloon is Roman. It is mentioned that he was born in Madinah in 120 AH and died in Madinah itself in 220 AH. His name is given as Abu Musa ‘Isa Ibn Mina al-Zarqi.

    In fact, Hafs and his teacher 'Asim, both of them are from Kufa. The Hafs recitation only became common when it was made official by the Egyptian Sultan, Fuad I in 1923. Later it was also popularized by the King Fahd Quran printing complex at Madinah Munawwarah.

    The Quraish recitation could be more closer to that of Ibn Kathir al-Makki (not to be confused with Ibn Kathir who wrote the Tafsir) as recited by his students Al-Buzzi and Qunbul.

    Here is an audio sample of Qunbul recitation https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/ar/ih...any_Qonbol.mp3


    The scans which I have posted above from different Mus-haf are all printed in Madinah Munawwarah at the King Fahd Qur'an printing complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post
    So when Uthman :RA: 's main move was to bring a single standard copy of Quran in Quraishi dilaect , Allah aalam how seven dilaects were included there
    If you remove the dots, then Katheera and Kabeera are written the same way. Maybe that is how he tried to accommodate them together.

    There is also one Hadith which indicates that whenever he found a contradiction, he kept the Quraish dialect and discarded the others.

    Narrated Anas bin Malik :

    Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to `Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman , "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to `Uthman . `Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit , `Abdullah bin AzZubair , Sa`id bin Al-As and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa . `Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. [Bukhari]


    Many scholars say that the Ahruf and Qira'ah are two different things. They say that only the Quraish dialect is currently available and that itself has 7 qira'ah within itself.
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    That is simply not true. There are 7 authentic qira'ah of Qur'an. Allah Himself revealed the Qur'an in 7 different Ahruf. The messenger of Allah, Muhammad said:
    "‏ أَقْرَأَنِي جِبْرِيلُ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ - عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَرَاجَعْتُهُ فَلَمْ أَزَلْ أَسْتَزِيدُهُ فَيَزِيدُنِي حَتَّى انْتَهَى إِلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ ‏"
    Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). [Muslim]

    If you to see some of the different recitations by yourself, please see this page: http://www.quranflash.com/home?en
    As for Maaliki and Maliki, see the difference here: http://www.quranflash.com/books/Qaloon and compare it with http://www.quranflash.com/books/MedinaOld/?en or with http://www.quranflash.com/books/Urdu15/?en





    First one has , second and third

    All three of them have the same Arabic letters, Meem Laam and Kaaf. Check the link http://corpus.quran.com/grammar.jsp?chapter=1&verse=4

    The only difference is whether you elongate meem as Maaliki or simply recite it as Maliki. Both the recitations are from the Prophet , and both of them revealed by Allah Himself.




    I have yet to receive any source for this statement.



    Which previous statement are you speaking of? Nobody said that Abu Bakr placed it with Hafsa . See the Hadith quoted above, nobody is saying anything that goes against that Hadith except you.

    The only falsehood here is your statement that someone in the past there was some story. Where was that story?



    Please read the Hadith again. There was no deficiency of verses found during the time of Uthmaan . Where did you get that from? Are you making up stories? Or putting words in others mouths?

    The Hadith clearly speaks of the time of compilation during Abu Bakr , not Uthmaan .



    Can you show us the reference from Tafheemul Quraan that a copy of the Qur'an was kept with Hafsah by the Prophet himself? I am sure you will not find it.

    This is what is written in the introduction of Tafheemul Quraan. You can also read it online here on Page 29.





    If you have a copy of Tafheemul Quraan and you find something else written there, please share the scans.





    It is clear who is fabricating stories here. We have all provided authentic references for every statement we make. And we have also asked you to provide references for your statements, but until now there are no references given.

    I had read it in the Tafheemul-quraan long ago. it is very saddening that now many things have disappeared from it. Allah is my witness that I am truthful as far as I remember. But you are an open liar and an attacker on the preservation of the Holy Quraan. you are an accuser making false accusations on Allah, Allah's Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and on Allah's Final Book Quraan. Insha-Allah I am coming with proofs but do not close the thread like you had done in the past to hide the truth about your ignorance. You have cut 20 marks from my reputation now and 10 in the past i.e. total of 30. Thank you! Cut all of my reputation marks and make it zero, I don't care for it. Allah is the Giver of Honor and Allah is the Giver of humiliation. I trust Allah and I only care for Allah's Pleasure.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    I had read it in the Tafheemul-quraan long ago. it is very saddening that now many things have disappeared from it. Allah is my witness that I am truthful as far as I remember.
    Once again you are speaking from emotions, not by facts.

    If you had really read something like that then show us a scan or a picture from that book.

    Remember, Tafheemul Quran was written in the 20th century by Maulana Abul A'laa Maududi, whereas we are giving you references from Sahih Bukhari. Do you think the words written by a 20th century scholar are more truthful than what is mentioned in the original Hadith books?

    In any case, I have already posted the relevant scan from Tafheemul Quran which clearly shows that you have forgotten what you had read. The author has only said in Tafheemul Quran what is already stated in the Hadith. He has not misquoted anything, but you are simply associating things about him that he has not said.



    ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
    That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."


    But you are an open liar and an attacker on the preservation of the Holy Quraan. you are an accuser making false accusations on Allah, Allah's Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and on Allah's Final Book Quraan. Insha-Allah I am coming with proofs but do not close the thread like you had done in the past to hide the truth about your ignorance.
    Was it this thread: Textual corruption of the Qur'an?

    It is still open. It was never closed. I can show you the Moderator log of that thread, and other mods can also see the moderator log and they can affirm that that thread was never closed.

    Please do not make a fool of yourself by throwing such false accusations. Your memory is failing you. Please do not speak about anything if you are not sure about it.

    You have cut 20 marks from my reputation now and 10 in the past i.e. total of 30. Thank you! Cut all of my reputation marks and make it zero, I don't care for it. Allah is the Giver of Honor and Allah is the Giver of humiliation. I trust Allah and I only care for Allah's Pleasure.
    I have given you negative rep for posting falsehood. Any member has the right to give positive rep or negative rep to anyone's post depending on the post content. I do not have anything against you, or anyone else here. I am simply posting facts with references and you are being too stubborn to acknowledge them. Instead, you keep narrating something that you do not even remember properly.

    Please, consult a proper scholar, whoever you like. They will surely tell you that you are mistaken. A person is never too old to learn, and learning stops the day when someone starts thinking that he or she knows better than others.
    Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 1 Week Ago at 08:03 PM. Reason: 20th century, not 19th
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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an


    Sister UmmAbdullah, do you read Urdu?
    Tafheem ul Qur’an was completed and first published in 1972. This is a screenshot from the muqaddamah of one of the early printings of Tafheem ul Qur’an in the 1970’s:

    Preservation of Qur'an

    (Click on the pink)


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an





    Qur’an Preservation Efforts During the Prophet’s Lifetime

    Icraa.org/Quran-preservation-efforts-prophets-lifetime/


    3.2.2 Qur’an writing and compilation sessions


    There is evidence that it was not only individually that people wrote the Qur’an in front of the Prophet rather there used to be sessions in which rather large number of people copied and compiled the Qur’anic text in his presence..
    عن ابن عباس قال: ” كانت المصاحفلا تباع، كان الرجل يأتي بورقة عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فيقوم الرجل فيحتسبفيكتب، ثم يقوم آخر فيكتب حتى يفرغ من المصحف

    Ibn ‘Abbas stated:

    “The masahif were not sold. A person would come to the Prophet,may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, with a parchment and some one would stand and write it for him voluntarily. Then another person would stand up and write until the mushaf was complete.”
    [23]


    In another report we read; عن زيد بن ثابت، قال: كنا عندرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نؤلف القرآن من الرقاعZaid bin Thabit said: “We were with the Messenger of Allah collecting the Qur’an on pieces of cloth.”[24]Mark the plural pronouns here. This shows multiple people used to sit in the company of the Prophet and compile the Qur’anic verses on parchments. Moreover, this tells us that not only were the verses written as and when revealed; they were also compiled in their specified order with the instructions of the Prophet.


    al-Bayhaqi writes;
    وإنما أراد تأليف ما نزل منالآيات المتفرقة، في سورتها وجمعها فيها بإشارة من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

    “What is meant is the compilation and collection of different revealed verses into surahs according to the instruction of the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.”[25]

    3.2.2The Prophet’s encouragement for writing the Qur’an



    The reason for large number of people sitting with the Prophet and compiling the Qur’anic verses (revealed up to that time) and making copies of the same voluntarily for others is that the Prophet encouraged the people to write the Qur’an and leave it after them for the next generations. Mark the following narration:

    عن أبي هريرة، قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: إنمما يلحق المؤمن من عمله وحسناته بعد موته علما علمه ونشره، وولدا صالحا تركه،ومصحفا ورثه، أو مسجدا بناه، أو بيتا لابن السبيل بناه، أو نهرا أجراه،
    أو صدقةأخرجها من ماله في صحته وحياته، يلحقه من بعد موته



    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allah said: ‘The rewards of the good deeds that will reach a believer after his death are: Knowledge which he taught and spread; a righteous son whom he leaves behind; a copy of the Qur’an that he leaves as a legacy; a mosque that he built; a house that he built for way farers; a canal that he dug; or charity that he gave during his life time when he was in good health. These deeds will reach him after his death.’”
    [26]
    It is thus clear that blessed Prophet had the clear motive of not only having the complete Qur’an written but also to get the people make and acquire Qur’anic manuscripts and leave it behind them as heir looms. Such an arrangement had to be made to see what is now achieved.



    4. Qur’anic Masahif were well spread during the life of the Prophet



    The efforts of the Prophet in getting the whole Qur’an written were greatly successful. Even though there was no official complete copy of the Qur’an yet many companions had varying sizes of personal masahif. In fact the masahif of the Qur’an had become so common in the time of the Prophet that he had to issue special instructions regarding them. For instance:

    عن عبد الله بن عمر رضي اللهعنهما: أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى أن يسافر بالقرآن إلى أرض العدوNarrated ‘Abdullah bin‘Umar: “Allah’s Messenger forbade the people to travel to a hostile country carrying (copies of) the Quran.”[27]

    Likewise, there is evidence for the manuscripts of the Qur’an in the instruction of the blessed Prophet to Hakim bin Hizam when he sent him to Yemen as a governor. He said:
    لا تمس القرآن إلا وأنت طاهر

    “Do not touch the Qur’an except when you are in the state of purity.”[28]

    At one stage the Qur’anic manuscripts were so much wide spread that Prophet warned people against laxity in memorizing and practicing upon it.

    عن عبد العزيز بن رفيع،قال: دخلت أنا وشداد بن معقل، على ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما، فقال له شداد بن معقل:أترك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من شيء؟ قال: «ما ترك إلا ما بين الدفتين» قال:ودخلنا على محمد ابن الحنفية، فسألناه، فقال: «ما ترك إلا ما بين الدفتين»

    Narrated ‘Abdul-‘Azeez bin Rufai’: “Shaddad bin Ma’qil and I entered upon Ibn ‘Abbas. Shaddad bin Ma’qil asked him, ‘Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur’an)?’ He replied, ‘He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (of the Qur’an).’ Then we visited Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyyah and asked him (the same question). He replied, ‘The Prophet did not leave except what is between the bindings (of the Qur’an).’”[32]
    ************************************************** **********************************

    That means : the Quraan was compiled.

    In fact the important point is that Quraan is preserved in full and Allah has preserved it. But I don't understand why the enemies again and again raise this question of the compilation of the Holy Quraan? Why are they not satisfied with the fact that the Quraan is miraculously preserved and the enemies, in spite of their hate for it, could not change it even in its single letter?

    Last edited by OmAbdullah; 1 Week Ago at 08:35 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

    “6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

    Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

    قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

    “The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.”[33]

    Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’

    The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

    إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

    “The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

    Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

    http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/
    Last edited by Insaanah; 1 Week Ago at 08:12 PM.
    1 | Likes AabiruSabeel liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

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    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

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