× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Preservation of Qur'an
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 41 to 50 of 50
  1. #1
    Array Captain Howdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Hinduism
    Posts
    79
    Threads
    8
    Reputation
    -156
    Rep Power
    0

    Preservation of Qur'an (OP)


    There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

    The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

    The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah.
    Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

    Still preserved?

  2. #41
    Insaanah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,423
    Threads
    173
    Reputation
    151957
    Rep Power
    129
    Likes (Given)
    1143
    Likes (Received)
    3270

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Report bad ads?

    The problem might be, that the Quran is being thought of in the conventional sense of a book. i.e. if it wasn’t all collected in one volume, it wasn’t preserved properly, naoothubillah.

    Allah promised to preserve the Quran. And He did. It was all written during the Prophets lifetime. The prophet had told what order the Surahs were to go in. Many companions, as in the page above you’ve quoted from, did have large portions in their own personal masahif (the collections of parchments the Quran was written on). But no one had all of it, as they were revealed at different places and times, when different people were around the Prophet . The Quran was completely revealed, recorded in hearts and in writing, and its order elucidated. It was already fully preserved.

    Our modern day notion is that it should have been a book like how we know today, at that time, for it to be preserved. But that is not the case. The companions wanted to safeguard it for the generations to come, so Allah put into their hearts, that this should be done, as part of His plan to preserve the Quran.

    The scholars agree on this, there is lots of evidence from statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum recorded in Saheeh collections. Yes, Allah says in the Quran, dhaalikal kitaabu. It was also referred to as kitaab even in some Makki Surahs when it was not yet a kitaab in the conventional sense. The prophet was told “Iqra” even when there was not yet anything to read or recite. But this clearly doesn’t mean that it was a book in one volume.

    Even in the muqaddamah to Tafheem, Maulana Maududi says that this book should not be thought of in any way as in the conventional sense of a book.
    Last edited by Insaanah; 1 Week Ago at 08:56 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    (Click on the pink)


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #42
    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,969
    Threads
    287
    Reputation
    116596
    Rep Power
    137
    Likes (Given)
    1116
    Likes (Received)
    3382

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    I sincerely apologise for any harsh words towards anyone. The above post by sister Insaanah seems to have perfectly summarised the whole topic.

    I don't feel I should continue posting on this thread to avoid any further misunderstanding.


  5. #43
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    669
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    3283
    Rep Power
    22
    Likes (Given)
    579
    Likes (Received)
    287

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

    “6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

    Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

    قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

    “The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.”[33]

    Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’

    The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

    إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

    “The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

    Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

    http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/

    The difference between you and me is that I give importance to the words of Allah and His Final Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam while you throw their words at your backs and choose the wrong interpretation by some common people. Again and again the words of Zaid bin Thabit and of the other companions are given for proof of the compiling of the Quraan during the lifetime of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam but you just pass over them to choose the opposite. For e.g. I chose the following statement:


    Narrated ‘Abdul-‘Azeezbin Rufai’: “Shaddad bin Ma’qil and I entered upon Ibn ‘Abbas. Shaddad binMa’qil asked him, ‘Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur’an)?’ Hereplied, ‘He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (ofthe Qur’an).’ Then we visited Muhammad bin al-Hanafiyyah and asked him (thesame question). He replied, ‘The Prophet did not leave except what is betweenthe bindings (of the Qur’an).’”[32]************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *****************

    I chose the above from the two contradictory statements because the above is according to the Quraan and Hadeeth (" I am leaving two things among you, the BOOK of Allah and mi Sunnah......).

    But you are rejecting that Truth, so you all must do double check on your eemaan.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  6. #44
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    669
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    3283
    Rep Power
    22
    Likes (Given)
    579
    Likes (Received)
    287

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    The Qur'an is a unique book. It is the words of Allah Himself. It was revealed on the heart of the Prophet .

    It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

    Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:
    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

    And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
    The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
    Upon your heart
    , [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
    In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

    Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

    To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet every year during Ramadhan.

    Narrated Abu-Huraira

    Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

    As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet . Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


    The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

    During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq , the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's lifetime.

    Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan , Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

    It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.



    Difference between Qur'an and MusHaf

    Most people do not know the difference between these two terms. They may not have even come across the words mushaf (pronounced as mos-Haf) before. This is the reason why they confuse between the two and automatically assume that the MusHaf is itself the Qur'an.


    The Qur'an is the actual words of Allah revealed on the prophet . It is the recitation, the actual recited words and Ayaat and Suwar (pl. of Surah), consisting of 114 Surah in total.

    Whereas, the musHaf is the “compiled, written pages of the Qur’an.” In other words, the term “Qur'an” refers to the specific “revelation that was read to Prophet Muhammad” whereas the term “mushaf” denotes the “written form” of that revelation.

    Each mushaf follows a particular “Qira’a (reading)” of the Qur’an. A “reading” is a way of writing or pronouncing the Qur’anic text. There are seven readings of the Qur’an that are considered authoritative.

    A mushaf may be written using any of a number of different Arabic scripts. For instance, one mushaf may be written using the Kufi script and another using Thulth.

    Furthermore, Arabic scripts developed over time, which means older mushafs that were written using the same script look different from new ones. For instance, the use of diacritical marks (dots above or under letters), which is known as “i’jam,” and the use of voweling marks (signs representing vowels), which is known as “tashkil,” were both introduced later into Arabic scripts, so early mushafs did not have them. The availability of a number of readings and scripts means that different mushafs may look differently.


    All mushafs have the same organization of chapters and the verses within each chapter. For instance, every mushaf starts with the chapter of “al-Fatiha (Opening)” and ends with the chapter of “an-Nas (people).” However, chapters and verses are not listed in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. For instance, the first verses of the Qur’an that were revealed to the Prophet are from chapter 96 in the mushaf.
    This is why there is only one Qur’an but different mushafs. But the differences between those mushafs are minimal, as they are written, compiled records of the one and same Qur’an.



    In conclusion, the Qur'an was complete as an orally recited book during the lifetime of the prophet , and was written down on several parchments and their copies with several different companions, but it wasn't compiled in a mushaf form that we see today. The first mushaf was prepared during the time of Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq .


    Definitions and explanation taken from http://www.quranicstudies.com/quran/...an-and-mushaf/


    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


    Is the dispute here about the material used for writing the Quraan on – if so then I will stop taking part in this argument because this is just a minor point?


    In fact, I used the words leather which means the animal skin. As we always read that at that time paper was not available so writing was done on flat bones, bark of trees, and animal skin. Allah knows about the best material available then to be used as sheets to write the Holy Quraan on them and then to give it the shape of a Perfect Book. In my understanding that could be the animal skin. If I am wrong then I hope that Allah will forgive me because I didn’t lie upon the Prophet (SAW). But you are certainly the one lying upon Allah and Allah’s Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


    You claim that Abu Bakar (RA) organized and managed the writing and compiling of the Holy Quraan. Then what was the material that Abu Bakar (RA) used for the same purpose? He became Caliph right after the passing away of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and he ruled only two and a half years. In that short time no paper was formed and no big changes (industrialization!) had happened. So it means that he used the same material which could be used by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. But you are not accepting the truth that the Prophet (SAW) prepared and left us with a PERFECT COMPLETE BOOK OF THE HOLY QURAAN.


    The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam while departing from this world announced to the whole Ummah that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving behind him two things among us: The Book of Allah and his Sunnah, whoever holds fast to these two will never go astray (see this hadeeth in Muslim).

    Now you claim that when he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam passed away he left bits of the Quraanic verses scattered here and there, some on bones, some on barks, and some in the memories of the various Muslims at that time and to those scattered bits he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave the name of a Book left behind him in the Ummah for the purpose of taking guidance from those scattered bits?


    Just out of the way, another thought, would any credible employee of any organization in any part of the world accept incomplete scattered work like the kind you accuse Prophet Muhammad
    salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam with?

    Does it make sense? Can a sound mind accept this manifest lie? Is this not a lie upon Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and upon Allah the Al-Quddoos who is High above any defects whatsoever?


    Well Quraan was not the first Book to be written and compiled at that time. Bible and Tawrah were present as books even before the Holy Quraan. What was the material on which those books were written? Allah Ta'aala has always blessed mankind with all the necessities of life. So whatever the best material could be, I believe that the Prophet (SAW) would have chosen that best material for the writing and compiling the Holy Quraan. In my understanding, that it could be the animal skin / leather etc. but Allah Knows best about the material used for the grand purpose.


    It is also likely that as a temporary immediate measure any available resource for writing down the revelations as they took place could have been used but the final copy would be in the form of a completed book completely organized. (the Final Quraan left by the Prophet (SAW) for us was not a collection of skin/leather, scrolls, bones, tree barks, etc. etc. as a “book”). Use your head.



    And what!!!


    Are the people changing the name of Quraan to Mas-haf?

    And are they making different kinds of Quraan with the names Masa-hif? Are they trying to remove the name “Al-Qur’aan”?

    No! NO!. This is an attack on the Preservation of the Holy Quraan in which you are with them.

    The Hadeeth about the 7 ways is:

    A companion was reciting a surah in his prayer. Umar (RA) heard him and found that his recitation was different. He took that Sahaabi to Allah’s Messenger salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and complained that the Sahaabi’s recitation was wrong. Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam advised him to recite. He recited and he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said that it was correct. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam advised Umar (RA) to recite the same – Umar (RA) recited and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said that it was also correct. Then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam told them that Jibreel (AS) came to him and informed him about 7 different ways of the recitation of the Quraan (Allah knows best the words of His Messenger (SAW).


    The hadeeth shows the 7 ways of recitation which is an oral thing. This hadeeth is a great Blessing for the ummah because people from different nations have different accents. Thus they are not forced to follow the accent of the Arabs. It is really very difficult for many people with different languages and accents to recite the Quraan exactly like the Arabs do. So if they cannot do then they can recite in an easier way as Allah All-Mighty gave us 7 different ways.


    This hadeeth does NOT give the permission to fabricate many kinds of Quraans, to divide Quraan into 7 kinds and to change the name of the Quraan to “Mas-haf this” and “Mas-haf that”.


    Unfortunately, such people are fighting against Allah while Allah is Very Powerful.

    Allah has already informed us about such people and their accounting – Read the following verses of Surah Al Hijr, their English translation is as follows:
    Surah Al-Hijr verses 89---93 (English translation):

    89: And say, "Indeed, I am the clear warner" -



    90: Just as We had revealed to the dividers (those who make divisions)



    91: Those who broke the Qur'an into portions.


    92: So by your Lord, We will surely question them all

    93: About what they used to do.
    ************************************************** ******



    These verses tell us about the accounting in the Hereafter of such dividers (of the Quraan). But they (the dividers) should not forget Allah’s Punishment here either, consider some examples:


    I have heard of this name of “Mas-haf” for Quraan many years ago (from an Egyptian Muslimah). In this same Egypt a trouble has begun with no end in sight. Even recently some cruel kaafirs opened fire and began shooting Muslims while they were making Salaatil-Jumah in a Masjid!


    Similarly, In Syria, students specializing in Deen in Ma’had al-Fatah (Ma’had Ash-shaam Al-Aali) were taught the tafseer of the Holy Quraan from a very strange tafseer. They also made a tafseer in grammatical language; it was taught and the purpose of the Holy Quraan (i.e. Admonition) was completely destroyed. They also taught philosophy in the Tawheed classes based on Aristotle’s work: A terrible fitnah has taken hold of this same Syria where people are killed in crowds and no end is coming to this fitnah.


    May Allah Ta’aala protect us. O Muslims who truly believe in Allah All-Mighty and the Day of Judgement, take heed. Take a lesson from the present conditions of the ummah. Remember that Allah is All Powerful, is watching the servants and when Allah Catches a Zaalim, then no escape is possible for the Zaalim (the cruel transgressor).

    So stop playing with the Book of Allah – you cannot defeat Allah, The Greatest, and if you are caught (May Allah Protect us) then you will have none to rescue you!!!.
    See Surah Hood (Hud) Verse 102 (translation):

    102:
    And thus is the seizure of your Lord when He seizes the cities while they are committing wrong. Indeed, His seizure is very painful and very severe.





    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #45
    Insaanah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,423
    Threads
    173
    Reputation
    151957
    Rep Power
    129
    Likes (Given)
    1143
    Likes (Received)
    3270

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an



    I already mentioned about the usage of the word book in my above post.

    “3. Nothing has been lost of what the Prophet left of the Qur’an

    Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz bin Rufai': Shaddad bin Ma'qil and I entered upon Ibn 'Abbas. Shaddad bin Ma'qil asked him, "Did the Prophet leave anything (besides the Qur'an)?" He replied. "He did not leave anything except what is between the two bindings (of the Qur'an)." Then we visited Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiyya and asked him (the same question). He replied, "The Prophet did not leave except what is between the bindings (of the Qur'an)."[7]

    This hadith is categorical evidence that nothing was lost of the Qur’an because all that the Holy Prophet- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- left for his people is what was put between the two bindings.”

    http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...uran-loss.html

    Abdul Aziz bin Rufai died in approx 130 Hijri
    Abdullah bin Abbas died in about 65 Hijri which is about 55 years after the battle of Yamamah. The two of them could only have met during the latter period of Abdullah ibn Abbaas’s life. Abu Bakr Siddeeq died two years after the battle of Yamamah, two years after becoming khalifa, in 12 Hijri. The Quran was put into book form /bound volume before his death. So at the time of the above narration, the Quran had already been put into book form.

    This statement of Abdullah ibn Rufai’s in no way contradicts what has been written above.

    And Allah knows best.
    Last edited by Insaanah; 1 Week Ago at 12:16 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    (Click on the pink)


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

  9. #46
    talibilm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    834
    Threads
    23
    Reputation
    3727
    Rep Power
    13
    Likes (Given)
    585
    Likes (Received)
    561

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    If you remove the dots, then Katheera and Kabeera are written the same way. Maybe that is how he tried to accommodate them together.

    There is also one Hadith which indicates that whenever he found a contradiction, he kept the Quraish dialect and discarded the others.

    Narrated Anas bin Malik :

    Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to `Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman , "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to `Uthman . `Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit , `Abdullah bin AzZubair , Sa`id bin Al-As and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa . `Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. [Bukhari]





    Many scholars say that the Ahruf and Qira'ah are two different things. They say that only the Quraish dialect is currently available and that itself has 7 qira'ah within itself.


    Brother,

    Jazakallah for intending sincerely to clear our doubts. My like is ONLY for your above PORTION of your post (in quote) of this (sorry i he pasted you first para below and hand moved your last para here in the above quote for making my stance clear and )

    This I had always believed as the language - words it itself Clear cut (Qirat is Qirat even among Thai Muslims here or else where and every where in India etc this word we had heard , followed , used from our childhood) as Qirat is ONLY RECITATION ( a method) while ahruf -7 ahruf dialects are different as proved from three hadith in post # 34 (more to be located inshallah from other collectors than Bukhari & Muslim)

    So as you say by quoting that the appropriate hadith which said '' "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." ONLY IMPLIES , INFERS may be during the reaffirmation of The Caliph Uthman 7 dialects were included but Kept the Quraishi dialect as the Lead , OR the different dialects were AGAIN inserted later by some who did not like Uthman's standard Quraishi dialect policy since they thought it was more godly to keep them all or a few bits of them , Allahu aalam . But its NEVER RIGHT to disagree with the Caliph and not follow his INSTRUCTIONS and such a mistake can cause loss to Muslim ummah as seen in the case of Sana Scripts which were never burned as per the order of the Caliph but thrown in the water So consequently Wicked hypocrites reclaiming it and OVER WRITING it to create confusion in the muslim ummah and as also affirmed by their INTENT by hiding it on the roof of that oldest Sanaa Masjid untill it was just found decades ago.



    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    I don't think Qaloon is Roman. It is mentioned that he was born in Madinah in 120 AH and died in Madinah itself in 220 AH. His name is given as Abu Musa ‘Isa Ibn Mina al-Zarqi.

    In fact, Hafs and his teacher 'Asim, both of them are from Kufa. The Hafs recitation only became common when it was made official by the Egyptian Sultan, Fuad I in 1923. Later it was also popularized by the King Fahd Quran printing complex at Madinah Munawwarah.

    The Quraish recitation could be more closer to that of Ibn Kathir al-Makki (not to be confused with Ibn Kathir who wrote the Tafsir) as recited by his students Al-Buzzi and Qunbul.

    Here is an audio sample of Qunbul recitation https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/ar/ih...any_Qonbol.mp3


    The scans which I have posted above from different Mus-haf are all printed in Madinah Munawwarah at the King Fahd Qur'an printing complex..
    About Qaloon can you clear on this from wiki

    Lessons on Qaloon Recitation - About Tajweed

    www.abouttajweed.com/lessons_on_qaloon_recitation.htm

    The Recitation of Qaloon 'an Naafi'. Imam Qaloon. His name was 'Isaa bin Meenaa and was nicknamed Aba Musaa. He was of Roman heritage. His Sheikh, Imam Naafi', nicknamed him Qaloon because of the quality of his qira'ah. The word Qaloon in the
    Roman language means “good.” He was born in 120 Al-Hijara and .........''






    Hafs did not start from Egypt but from Abu ‘Amr Hafs Ibn Sulayman Ibn al-Mughirah Ibn Abi Dawud al-Asadi al-Kufi , who moved in to Mecca in around about 110 AH (little earlier than Warsh) though they were Basic recitations (there are more recitations than 7 and its natural to have so many seeing the vast use of Arabic )

    And after hafs (95 %) warsh is also used in deep Africa but a point worthy to be noted is that though The Imaam of Warsh was born in Egypt Still Egypt gave MORE PREFERENCE and approved Hafs , shows that the today's hafs Quran widely used in most of all ME and in the sub continent is most close to the intention of Caliph Uthman's script though the differences in dialect will still linger in the Muslim ummah in the form of Warsh , Qaloon and al dhuri etc OR its just a matter of tajweed !! between Warsh, Qaloon and al dhuri as remarked in the above link.




    Last edited by talibilm; 1 Week Ago at 03:28 AM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  10. #47
    Scimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,086
    Threads
    88
    Reputation
    48328
    Rep Power
    72
    Likes (Given)
    8268
    Likes (Received)
    5947

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    @ Om Abdullah,

    the appeal to emotion doesn't help you to make any valid points. Neither does using larger text
    Preservation of Qur'an


  11. #48
    talibilm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    834
    Threads
    23
    Reputation
    3727
    Rep Power
    13
    Likes (Given)
    585
    Likes (Received)
    561

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    From the same webpage you have quoted points 3 and 4 from above, this is point no 6 if you continue reading the page, sister UmmAbdullah:

    “6. Claim that the Qur’an was not written completely during the Prophet’s time

    Some claim that the Qur’an was not written in full during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet but this is false because the entire Qur’an was indeed written with the supervision of the blessed Prophet though it was not compiled into one collection. This is testified by the statement of Zaid bin Thabit, one of the chief scribes. He said:

    قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

    “The Prophet passed away while the Qur’an was yet not gathered in anything.
    ”[33]

    Clearly the word used here is jumi‘a which means ‘gathered’ and not ‘written.’
    Sister

    Can you kindly specify which hadith is the above quote from ?? for our info

    Though I do agree that Abu bakr RA did compile The Glorious Quran in one book (but with 7 dialects) after one year after the demise of Prophet as per those many CLEAR CUT hadith but what is your view from below hadith like this (sorry, i could not post in arabic)

    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 525
    Narrated Qatada:
    I asked Anas bin Malik: "Who collected the Qur'an at the time of the Prophet ?" He replied, "Four, all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubai bin Ka'b, Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid."



    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 526

    Narrated Anas bin Malik:
    When the Prophet died, none had collected the Qur'an but four persons;: Abu Ad-Darda'. Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid. We were the inheritor (of Abu Zaid) as he had no offspring .


    Note :
    See 'none' here affirms this was a collection not just writing of a scribe , since scribes were more than four to nearly about 40 in various situations, in various places, in journey etc when the Quran was SUDDENLY revealed. So consquently such hadith including the hadiths '' between two bindings of the Quran '' and '' Prophet Face shines like the paper of the Quran '' etc creates view that the Glorious Quran was OFFICIALLY COLLECTED (by Jamat of Ummah ) under Khalifa , caliph Abu Bakr :RA: but Quran was also collected earlier by the four sahabas (infiradhi) individually, WHO WERE ALL ANSARS ( also CLEARLY pointed in the above hadith) WHILE THE MUHAJIR, QURAISH WHO HAVE BEEN VESTED, OBLIGED FROM HADITHS WITH THE DUTY TO CARRY OUT WITH THE CALIPHATE So They (muhajirs) under Abu Bakr RA had suddenly done this after the battle of Yamama where many huffaz were killed
    @OmAbdullah






    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    The wisdom behind the fact that Qur’an was completely written but not compiled at one place during the life of the blessed Prophet is explained by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH). He said:

    إنما لم يجمع القرآن في المصحف لما كان يترقبه من ورود ناسخ لبعض أحكامه أو تلاوته فلما انقضى نزوله بوفاته ألهم الله الخلفاء الراشدين ذلك وفاء بوعده الصادق بضمان حفظه على هذه الأمة فكان ابتداء ذلك على يد الصديق بمشورة عمر

    “The Messenger of Allah – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – did not gather the Qur’an in a mushaf because he had to wait if there was some abrogation of some commands or recitation but when he died and the revelation ceased (and thus abrogation as well); Allah, to fulfill his True Commitment of preservation (of Qur’an) for this Ummah, put this thought into the hearts of the Righteous Caliphs. Then this great task was undertaken by Abu Bakr on the advice of ‘Umar.”[34]

    Truly, this should conclusively prove that the Qur’an was preserved and compiled during the lifetime of the blessed Prophet – upon him is the peace and blessings of Almighty Allah.”

    http://icraa.org/quran-preservation-...hets-lifetime/
    I will also like to know the reference of above view by al-Khattabi (d. 338 AH) Rah Alay, though i ONLY cautiously take any info after tabe tabieen (by virtue of hadith that said '' the best of My Ummah are..... '' which are more than 10 hadiths even from other collectors outside from bukhari & Muslim confirms it great authenticity ) SINCE such a view will contradict when we see from CLEAR CUT HADITHS & events that of Gibraeil AS revising Quran TWICE in THE LAST ramadhan of our Prophet's Demise ie 2 months before the last haj sermon where Prophet already CLEARLY indicated he will not be in the world the Next year and gave a last speech like a Charter to the Ummah and also by this verse which will end such speculations of further abrogations which was revealed three months before Prophet's demise at the Arafah at the same last haj sermon

    5:3 '' .......................This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. ................''


    And Even these below hadiths shows all abrogations were over before 5 months
    (in the last ramadhan for our prophet on this earth, when Gibraeil AS revised the Glorious Quran TWICE ) before the demise of Prophet but Allahu aalam , as Allah made life is test (67:2) in spite of so many Prophecies of Prophet that happened already when he was alive and soon in days and years after Prophet this test was left to the sahabas ( Allah tested the sahabas whether they listened to their Khalifa or not ? as per the Order of Prophet imho)

    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 60
    Narrated Ibn : I said to 'Uthman, "This Verse which is in Surat-al-Baqara: "Those of you who die and leave widows behind...without turning them out." has been abrogated by another Verse. Why then do you write it (in the Qur'an)?" 'Uthman said. "Leave it (where it is), O the son of my brother, for I will not shift anything of it (i.e. the Quran) from its original position."




    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 527

    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, ''I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Apostle and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said


    NOTE : Hope every one here takes this as a discussion rather than (shaitan) making us think as arguing to prove one's ideas OR taking sides, Naudhubillah (what is their to take any side when you do not know me or my name nor I know your's and Our Final return & destination is to our Lord , Allah !) But we should remember that such as these situations are a test (like the verse below 3:152-155) to every one of us, believers so that we strive to find the haq or do we stick to our nafs and our views inshallah should sway in the direction of proofs from the Glorious Quran or sahih Hadith and May Allah guide us all , ameen.

    Glorious Quran 3:152 '' 152. And Allâh did indeed fulfil His Promise to you when you were killing them (your enemy) with His Permission; until (the moment) you lost your courage and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed after He showed you (of the booty) which you love. Among you are some that desire this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then He made you flee from them (your enemy), that He might test you. But surely, He forgave you, and Allâh is Most Gracious to the believers.


    Note: See how also Al Qadr of Allah is displayed in the above verse
    Last edited by talibilm; 6 Days Ago at 10:17 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  12. #49
    Insaanah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,423
    Threads
    173
    Reputation
    151957
    Rep Power
    129
    Likes (Given)
    1143
    Likes (Received)
    3270

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    t:

    Can you kindly specify which hadith is the above quote from ?? for our info
    The references are given in the source link. But I will post them here too:

    This is the source for the statement of Zaid bin Thabit radiyallahu anhu

    Asqalani, Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, (Beirut: Dar al-Ma’rifah, 1379 AH) Vol.9, 12

    And the source for the statement of al Khattaabi is

    As Suyuti, Jalal ad-Deen, al-Itiqan fil ‘Uloom al-Quran, (Egypt: Haeya al-Masriyah al-‘Aamah lil-Kitab, 1974) Vol.1, 202

    If I find more information on the other points raised I will post it

    Ameen to the dua.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    (Click on the pink)


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #50
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    669
    Threads
    38
    Reputation
    3283
    Rep Power
    22
    Likes (Given)
    579
    Likes (Received)
    287

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    The problem might be, that the Quran is being thought of in the conventional sense of a book. i.e. if it wasn’t all collected in one volume, it wasn’t preserved properly, naoothubillah.

    Allah promised to preserve the Quran. And He did. It was all written during the Prophets lifetime. The prophet had told what order the Surahs were to go in. Many companions, as in the page above you’ve quoted from, did have large portions in their own personal masahif (the collections of parchments the Quran was written on). But no one had all of it, as they were revealed at different places and times, when different people were around the Prophet . The Quran was completely revealed, recorded in hearts and in writing, and its order elucidated. It was already fully preserved.

    Our modern day notion is that it should have been a book like how we know today, at that time, for it to be preserved. But that is not the case. The companions wanted to safeguard it for the generations to come, so Allah put into their hearts, that this should be done, as part of His plan to preserve the Quran.

    The scholars agree on this, there is lots of evidence from statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum recorded in Saheeh collections. Yes, Allah says in the Quran, dhaalikal kitaabu. It was also referred to as kitaab even in some Makki Surahs when it was not yet a kitaab in the conventional sense. The prophet was told “Iqra” even when there was not yet anything to read or recite. But this clearly doesn’t mean that it was a book in one volume.


    Even in the muqaddamah to Tafheem, Maulana Maududi says that this book should not be thought of in any way as in the conventional sense of a book.

    The the muqaddamah to Tafheem of Maulana Maududi has been changed a lot. Alas!
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Hey there! Preservation of Qur'an Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Preservation of Qur'an
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. The preservation of Hadith
    By Salahudeen in forum Hadith
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 03:40 PM
  2. God's Preservation of the Sunnah
    By Ummu Sufyaan in forum Hadith
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-31-2009, 02:49 PM
  3. *!* God’s Preservation of the Sunnah *!*
    By Khayal in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-14-2007, 03:22 AM
  4. Preservation of the Quran....
    By al-fateh in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-19-2006, 01:22 AM
  5. Preservation of The Qur'an
    By Bint-Al-Islam in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-2005, 09:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create