× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Preservation of Qur'an
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50
  1. #1
    Captain Howdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Hinduism
    Posts
    79
    Threads
    8
    Reputation
    -156
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Preservation of Qur'an

    Report bad ads?

    There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

    The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

    The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah.
    Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

    Still preserved?

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    'Abd-al Latif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,553
    Threads
    344
    Reputation
    39022
    Rep Power
    87
    Likes (Given)
    496
    Likes (Received)
    1681

    Re: Why are Muslims killing Muslims? Egypt suffers worst terror attack in history

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post
    There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3rd of the modern day Quran) and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

    The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.

    The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah.
    Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

    Still preserved?
    There comes a time when you really do need to learn to think before you speak. Unfortunately, some people lack the ability to avoid making an embarrassment out of themselves.

    The Qur'an was memorised and even written down during the lifetime of the Prophet but was not written in a book format until after his death. This is for the following reasons:


    1. The Qur'an was revealed in stages which spanned a period of 23 years;
    2. The Qur'an was memorised by Muhammad's companions during the lifetime of the Prophet ;
    3. The Prophet () appointed a group of his companions to write down the revelation during his lifetime, such as Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas, Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit and others;
    4. The Qur'an was written down on animal hides and other materials as books and paper weren't common as they are today;
    5. After the death of the Prophet , all the companions who had written the Qur'an down and memorised it put it together in book format. This was done soon after his death;
    6. The instance of saying bismillah isn't a scholarly opinion. The discussions amongst the scholars are whether it's recommended or obligatory to say bismillah before reciting the Qur'an. At the very least we know it's recommended. This argument of yours holds absolutely no bearing of whether or not the Qur'an is "incomplete";


    The Qur'an is indeed fully preserved and no portion of it has been lost in any shape or form since the past 1400 years.

    This is your last and final warning. We've spoken to you on numerous occasions about your attitude but you've ignored our warnings. Any further issues and you will be permanently banned.
    Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 11-26-2017 at 02:16 PM.
    3 | Likes OmAbdullah, AbdullahAziz, happymuslim liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



  4. #3
    Captain Howdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Hinduism
    Posts
    79
    Threads
    8
    Reputation
    -156
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Re: Why are Muslims killing Muslims? Egypt suffers worst terror attack in history

    [deleted]
    Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 12-08-2017 at 09:22 PM. Reason: user banned

  5. #4
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    717
    Threads
    40
    Reputation
    3249
    Rep Power
    23
    Likes (Given)
    612
    Likes (Received)
    308

    Re: Why are Muslims killing Muslims? Egypt suffers worst terror attack in history

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    There comes a time when you really do need to learn to think before you speak. Unfortunately, some people lack the ability to avoid making an embarrassment out of themselves.

    The Qur'an was memorised and even written down during the lifetime of the Prophet but was not written in a book format until after his death. This is for the following reasons:


    1. The Qur'an was revealed in stages which spanned a period of 23 years;
    2. The Qur'an was memorised by Muhammad's companions during the lifetime of the Prophet ;
    3. The Prophet () appointed a group of his companions to write down the revelation during his lifetime, such as Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas, Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan, Zayd ibn Thaabit and others;
    4. The Qur'an was written down on animal hides and other materials as books and paper weren't common as they are today;
    5. After the death of the Prophet , all the companions who had written the Qur'an down and memorised it put it together in book format. This was done soon after his death;
    6. The instance of saying bismillah isn't a scholarly opinion. The discussions amongst the scholars are whether it's recommended or obligatory to say bismillah before reciting the Qur'an. At the very least we know it's recommended. This argument of yours holds absolutely no bearing of whether or not the Qur'an is "incomplete";


    The Qur'an is indeed fully preserved and no portion of it has been lost in any shape or form since the past 1400 years.

    This is your last and final warning. We've spoken to you on numerous occasions about your attitude but you've ignored our warnings. Any further issues and you will be permanently banned.

    Assalaamo alaykum


    In the past there was a thread in which I had proved by evidence that the Holy Quraan was fully completed and the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had placed one full Quraan with Hafza rAa. With Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam there were 40 or more than 4o scribes who used to write the revelations from him salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. So at one and the same time 40 or more that 40 Quraans were prepared from which he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam placed one copy with Hafzah rAa. Then when more Quraans were needed in the time of Abu Bakar rAa, he took that copy from Hafzah rAa and made more copies. After that he returned that copy to her.



    Before leaving this world, the prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had said a hadeeth that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was leaving two things among us, one the Book of Allah and second his Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, will never go astray.



    This hadeeth is a proof that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had left Quraan among us as a complete Book.
    1 | Likes AbdullahAziz liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,049
    Threads
    292
    Reputation
    116893
    Rep Power
    139
    Likes (Given)
    1128
    Likes (Received)
    3443

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    In addition to what brother 'Abd-al Latif has posted, we also have a continuous chain of memorization of the Qur'an since the time of the Prophet , with millions of Huffaz all over the world, all reciting exactly the same words. No other book in the world can come anywhere near.

    See this thread for the continuous chains of recitation and memorization of the Holy Qur'an: The Isnād System: An Unbroken Link to The Prophet

  8. #6
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,300
    Threads
    30
    Reputation
    4689
    Rep Power
    65
    Likes (Given)
    226
    Likes (Received)
    732

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quran was continously being revealed in the life time of the Prophet aleyhissalam. It would be totally illogical to compile it as a book then. You cant compile an unfinished book.

    Btw this must be the first thread created by a disabled account
    Preservation of Qur'an

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

  9. #7
    talibilm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    887
    Threads
    23
    Reputation
    3870
    Rep Power
    14
    Likes (Given)
    608
    Likes (Received)
    576

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post
    There isn’t a single copy of Quran available today that dates back to the time of prophet. The Tashkent Version (which by the way is 1/3rd of the modern day Quran)
    Its 1/3rd or half or full , that does not matter and does not add or reduce anything to the existing, memorized by millions of Muslims which was the same system followed from the day 1 of the Quran's revelation by writing it down & memorizing it directly from the blessed lips of Prophet and All the Sahabas and Salaf are its isnad or Chain of Narrators,

    More info on this in post #


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post
    and the Sana Mosque manuscripts (only a fraction of some surahs) apart from being incomplete are dated 100+ years after the death of the prophet.

    The earliest available partial manuscripts (Sana Mosque) reveal that the Quran verses of today are not exactly the same as the one’s mentioned in these manuscripts.
    So Called Sana scripts that were found hidden on a roof ceiling ( Why hidden ? if they were legitimate ? are seen clearly to be washed and over written on them ) are those manuscripts that were to be destroyed by burning by the Order of the Caliph Uthman RA but were thrown into well or lake (another method of discarding mushaf or old Quran) and were found by the hypocrites (or jews, might be the Ibn Sabah group of Yemen) who had over written on and hid them in the ceiling. So this are not be regarded as the correct manuscripts of the Glorious Quran except the Uthmanic script in Tashkent whose dates are already proved by the Radio Carbon analysis by Oxford Lab, commissioned under the Christies auction company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post


    The very first utterance in the Quran is Bismillah.
    Unfortunately, this verse itself is agreed by Islamic scholars to be a later day addition.

    Still preserved?
    Wow thanks for proving, our Scholars are so serious even to take a word ''Bismillah ' in the glorious Quran , and how to treat it (as explained above ) Shows how PRECISE is the Glorious Quran from insertion, adulteration, Mashallah Our Scholars (by the help of Allah ) had DONE SUPERB JOB by being VIGILANT always even about the great word of Name of Allah , to include it or Not ? in the Glorious Quran LEST if it did not come TOGETHER with the revelation !!

    Even our Hadith are well preserved with Isnad System so what is there to doubt about the Glorious Quran ?which is more protected , preserved in written , Memorized, read every day five times in our Salah & even taught to kids who Memorize them as well from day 1 of its first revelation and a little later in the presence of Prophet with 1000's of witnesses !!
    Last edited by talibilm; 11-27-2017 at 10:07 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  10. #8
    Scimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,155
    Threads
    94
    Reputation
    48526
    Rep Power
    73
    Likes (Given)
    8322
    Likes (Received)
    6015

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Preservation of Qur'an


  11. #9
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    717
    Threads
    40
    Reputation
    3249
    Rep Power
    23
    Likes (Given)
    612
    Likes (Received)
    308

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Quran was continously being revealed in the life time of the Prophet aleyhissalam. It would be totally illogical to compile it as a book then. You cant compile an unfinished book.

    Btw this must be the first thread created by a disabled account

    The revelation of the Holy Quraan was completed in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The last surah revealed was the surah Al-Nasar (An-Nasar). This surah is No. 114 in its order of revelation.


    Allah said in surah Al-Ma'idah verse 3 (Here is the English tranlation with the explanatory note):


    (5:3) Forbidden to you are carrion,
    9 blood, the flesh of swine, the animal slaughtered in any name other than Allah's,10 the animal which has either been strangled, killed by blows, has died of a fall, by goring or that devoured by a beast of prey - unless it be that which you yourselves might have slaughtered while it was still alive11 - and that which was slaughtered at the altars.12-13 You are also forbidden to seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows.14 All these are sinful acts. This day the unbelievers have fully despaired of your religion. Do not fear them; but fear Me.15 This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure, and have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion. (Follow, then, the lawful and unlawful bounds enjoined upon you.)16 As for he who is driven by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.17
    ************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************

    Exp. note 16:


    16. The 'perfection of religion' mentioned in this verse refers to making it a self-sufficient system of belief and conduct, and an order of social life providing its own answers to the questions with which man is confronted. This system contains all necessary guidance for man, either by expounding fundamental principles from which detailed directives can be deduced or by spelling out such directives explicitly so that in no circumstances would one need to look for guidance to any extraneous source.
    The bounty referred to in the statement: 'I have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure', is the bounty of true guidance.


    The statement: 'I have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion' means that, since the Muslims had proved by their conduct and their striving that they were honest and sincere about the commitment they had made to God in embracing Islam - the commitment to serve and obey Him - He had accepted their sincerity and created conditions in which they were no longer yoked in bondage to anyone but Him. Thus the Muslims were not prevented from living in submission to God out of extraneous constraints just as there were no constraints preventing them from subscribing to true beliefs. Having recounted these favours, God does not point out what should be the proper response to those favours. But the implication is obvious: the only appropriate response on the part of the believers must be unstinting observance of the law of God out of gratitude to Him.


    According to authentic traditions this verse was revealed in 10 A.H. on the occasion of the Prophet's Farewell Pilgrimage. The context however, seems to indicate that it was revealed soon after the conclusion of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah (i.e. in 6 A.H.). All parts of the discourse in which this verse occurs are so tightly interwoven and so closely inter-connected that it hardly seems conceivable that it should have been inserted here several years later. My own estimate - and true knowledge of this lies with God alone - is that this verse was originally revealed in its present context (i.e. commenting upon the conditions prevailing at the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah). It is conceivable that the true significance of the verse was not then fully appreciated. But later on, when Islam prevailed over the whole of Arabia and the power of Islam reached a high point, God once again revealed this verse to His Messenger and ordered him to proclaim it.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************


    The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) proclaimed the above verse of surah Al-Maidah in Makkah at the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage. At that occasion he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked the gathering of the Muslims three times if he had conveyed them the Message. They said “yes”, and then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam made Allah the Witness on their saying. That was the time when his mission as a Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) of Allah was fully perfected.


    This is not befitting for a Believer (i.e. a Muslim) to say or think or to believe that Allah’s words of perfecting the Deen were not true. We as Muslims, seek the refuge of Allah from such kufar (unbelief) in Islam. So our belief as Muslims must be that Islam (Quraan and Sunnah) was perfected in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from all points of view.


    (To be continued insha-Allah)
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,300
    Threads
    30
    Reputation
    4689
    Rep Power
    65
    Likes (Given)
    226
    Likes (Received)
    732

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post


    The revelation of the Holy Quraan was completed in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The last surah revealed was the surah Al-Nasar (An-Nasar). This surah is No. 114 in its order of revelation.


    Allah said in surah Al-Ma'idah verse 3 (Here is the English tranlation with the explanatory note):


    (5:3) Forbidden to you are carrion,
    9 blood, the flesh of swine, the animal slaughtered in any name other than Allah's,10 the animal which has either been strangled, killed by blows, has died of a fall, by goring or that devoured by a beast of prey - unless it be that which you yourselves might have slaughtered while it was still alive11 - and that which was slaughtered at the altars.12-13 You are also forbidden to seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows.14 All these are sinful acts. This day the unbelievers have fully despaired of your religion. Do not fear them; but fear Me.15 This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure, and have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion. (Follow, then, the lawful and unlawful bounds enjoined upon you.)16 As for he who is driven by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.17
    ************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************

    Exp. note 16:


    16. The 'perfection of religion' mentioned in this verse refers to making it a self-sufficient system of belief and conduct, and an order of social life providing its own answers to the questions with which man is confronted. This system contains all necessary guidance for man, either by expounding fundamental principles from which detailed directives can be deduced or by spelling out such directives explicitly so that in no circumstances would one need to look for guidance to any extraneous source.
    The bounty referred to in the statement: 'I have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure', is the bounty of true guidance.


    The statement: 'I have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion' means that, since the Muslims had proved by their conduct and their striving that they were honest and sincere about the commitment they had made to God in embracing Islam - the commitment to serve and obey Him - He had accepted their sincerity and created conditions in which they were no longer yoked in bondage to anyone but Him. Thus the Muslims were not prevented from living in submission to God out of extraneous constraints just as there were no constraints preventing them from subscribing to true beliefs. Having recounted these favours, God does not point out what should be the proper response to those favours. But the implication is obvious: the only appropriate response on the part of the believers must be unstinting observance of the law of God out of gratitude to Him.


    According to authentic traditions this verse was revealed in 10 A.H. on the occasion of the Prophet's Farewell Pilgrimage. The context however, seems to indicate that it was revealed soon after the conclusion of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah (i.e. in 6 A.H.). All parts of the discourse in which this verse occurs are so tightly interwoven and so closely inter-connected that it hardly seems conceivable that it should have been inserted here several years later. My own estimate - and true knowledge of this lies with God alone - is that this verse was originally revealed in its present context (i.e. commenting upon the conditions prevailing at the time of the Treaty of Hudaybiyah). It is conceivable that the true significance of the verse was not then fully appreciated. But later on, when Islam prevailed over the whole of Arabia and the power of Islam reached a high point, God once again revealed this verse to His Messenger and ordered him to proclaim it.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************


    The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) proclaimed the above verse of surah Al-Maidah in Makkah at the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage. At that occasion he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked the gathering of the Muslims three times if he had conveyed them the Message. They said “yes”, and then he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam made Allah the Witness on their saying. That was the time when his mission as a Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) of Allah was fully perfected.


    This is not befitting for a Believer (i.e. a Muslim) to say or think or to believe that Allah’s words of perfecting the Deen were not true. We as Muslims, seek the refuge of Allah from such kufar (unbelief) in Islam. So our belief as Muslims must be that Islam (Quraan and Sunnah) was perfected in the life of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from all points of view.


    (To be continued insha-Allah)
    Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

  14. #11
    talibilm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    887
    Threads
    23
    Reputation
    3870
    Rep Power
    14
    Likes (Given)
    608
    Likes (Received)
    576

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.


    I think this is not so as i even thought so before.

    The Prophet of Allah whom through more than 240 prophecies most have been full filled OUGHT to have done but left this great Job to his Sahabas '' as a TEST'' . Allah tested his Sahabas did they carry out as Allah has ordered his Prophet to say to Muslims to listen and abide the order of the Calipha ? and resolve their affairs accordingly as in the verse

    But seeing some other Hadith it clear most of the Glorious Quran was already in the book form but in 7 dialects and this FIRST & LAST AFFIRMATION by Uthman :RA: was MAINLY INTO ONE STANDARD DIALECT ie '' THE QURAISHI DIALECT " in which The Quran was originally FIRST revealed.

    Inshallah I shall update(later) other hadiths THAT PROVES the glorious Quran was already available in the form of a Book


    PROOF NO 1 , the first verse of the sura Bakra says that '' Dzalikalkithabu lairaiba feehi .......''

    2:2 '' This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
    Last edited by talibilm; 12-02-2017 at 11:18 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  15. #12
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    717
    Threads
    40
    Reputation
    3249
    Rep Power
    23
    Likes (Given)
    612
    Likes (Received)
    308

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Ofcourse but the Prophet aleyhissalam died only 6 months after the revelation of the last ayah. I gues it wasnt a sufficient amount of time to do this work.

    The prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was not the servant of a worldly human king. He was a servant and a Prophet (The Final Prophet) of Allah Who is the Sovereign of the whole universe. so his case was very different from the servants of the worldly kings.



    Suppose a worldly king gives an assignment / a mission to a servant. The servant may die before the completion of the mission because the life and death of the servant is not in the hands of the human king. So the human king will have to appoint another person for the completion of the mission. But the life and death of all are in the hands of Allah. Death could not come to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam before the completion of the mission that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was sent for.



    It is very sad to see that you ignored the words of Allah in the verse 3 of surah Al-Maa-idah (given above in my post). Allah Ta'aala announced the perfection of the Deen which is Islam and its full guidance is given in the Holy Quraan explained by Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam both orally and practically.



    From the very beginning the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had appointed more than 40 scribes to write the revelation exactly as he dictated to them. So at one and the same time more than 40 copies were written under his direct guidance and observation.



    The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam did never depend on the Quraan in the memory of the Muslims. He always used a written copy for teaching the Holy Quraan. When some of the people from Madinah accepted Islam in Makkah, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave them the copies of the portion of the Holy Quraan that was revealed until that time. They went back to Madinah and conveyed the message of Quraan from those written copies. With that teaching and preaching many people became Muslims and then they invited Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and his companions to Madinah. That made the hijrah possible for them.


    In the story of Umar rAa' entering the fold of Islam, it is stated that a companion rAa was teaching a surah to the sister and brother-in law of Umar rAa from a written copy. So the Quraanic verses and surahs were written after each revelation. Even sometimes only some verses were revealed and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, under Allah's Guidance, instructed the scribes to place those verses in such and such surah between such and such ayaat. Then look at the miraculous arrangement of the verses in a surah that the verse about Ummati wasata comes at the number 143 in the Surah Al-Baqarah. The surah Al-Baqarah has 286 verses, So the verse stating that this Ummah is the Middle ummah comes at a middle number of 286 which is 143.


    So this arrangement of the verses in the surahs and that of the surahs in the whole Quraan is very miraculous and is done only by Allah All-Mighty through His Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


    I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  16. #13
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,300
    Threads
    30
    Reputation
    4689
    Rep Power
    65
    Likes (Given)
    226
    Likes (Received)
    732

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post



    The prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was not the servant of a worldly human king. He was a servant and a Prophet (The Final Prophet) of Allah Who is the Sovereign of the whole universe. so his case was very different from the servants of the worldly kings.



    Suppose a worldly king gives an assignment / a mission to a servant. The servant may die before the completion of the mission because the life and death of the servant is not in the hands of the human king. So the human king will have to appoint another person for the completion of the mission. But the life and death of all are in the hands of Allah. Death could not come to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam before the completion of the mission that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was sent for.



    It is very sad to see that you ignored the words of Allah in the verse 3 of surah Al-Maa-idah (given above in my post). Allah Ta'aala announced the perfection of the Deen which is Islam and its full guidance is given in the Holy Quraan explained by Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam both orally and practically.



    From the very beginning the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had appointed more than 40 scribes to write the revelation exactly as he dictated to them. So at one and the same time more than 40 copies were written under his direct guidance and observation.



    The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam did never depend on the Quraan in the memory of the Muslims. He always used a written copy for teaching the Holy Quraan. When some of the people from Madinah accepted Islam in Makkah, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave them the copies of the portion of the Holy Quraan that was revealed until that time. They went back to Madinah and conveyed the message of Quraan from those written copies. With that teaching and preaching many people became Muslims and then they invited Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and his companions to Madinah. That made the hijrah possible for them.


    In the story of Umar rAa' entering the fold of Islam, it is stated that a companion rAa was teaching a surah to the sister and brother-in law of Umar rAa from a written copy. So the Quraanic verses and surahs were written after each revelation. Even sometimes only some verses were revealed and the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, under Allah's Guidance, instructed the scribes to place those verses in such and such surah between such and such ayaat. Then look at the miraculous arrangement of the verses in a surah that the verse about Ummati wasata comes at the number 143 in the Surah Al-Baqarah. The surah Al-Baqarah has 286 verses, So the verse stating that this Ummah is the Middle ummah comes at a middle number of 286 which is 143.


    So this arrangement of the verses in the surahs and that of the surahs in the whole Quraan is very miraculous and is done only by Allah All-Mighty through His Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.


    - - - Updated - - -



    Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


    I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.
    Sister, sorry but I think you have a major misunderstanding problem. I have noticed this in some other posts of you. How what you wrote in this post is an answer to my above post? I am very well aware of that Quran was written on papers by the scribes in the life time of the Propeht aleyhissalam. But it was not compiled as a book. Did you know this? It was done by Abu Bakr r.a.. Please firstly understand what people exactly say, then try to give a related answer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post


    I think this is not so as i even thought so before.

    The Prophet of Allah whom through more than 240 prophecies most have been full filled OUGHT to have done but left this great Job to his Sahabas '' as a TEST'' . Allah tested his Sahabas did they carry out as Allah has ordered his Prophet to say to Muslims to listen and abide the order of the Calipha ? and resolve their affairs accordingly as in the verse

    But seeing some other Hadith it clear most of the Glorious Quran was already in the book form but in 7 dialects and this FIRST & LAST AFFIRMATION by Uthman :RA: was MAINLY INTO ONE STANDARD DIALECT ie '' THE QURAISHI DIALECT " in which The Quran was originally FIRST revealed.

    Inshallah I shall update(later) other hadiths THAT PROVES the glorious Quran was already available in the form of a Book


    PROOF NO 1 , the first verse of the sura Bakra says that '' Dzalikalkithabu lairaiba feehi .......''

    2:2 '' This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
    Aleykum Salam. When Quran refers to itself as a "Book" it doesnt necesariliy mean it is an actual book written on papers. Quran was already a book written in Levh-i Mahfouz in the side of Allah before it was revealed. We are discussing the issue why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

  17. #14
    talibilm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    887
    Threads
    23
    Reputation
    3870
    Rep Power
    14
    Likes (Given)
    608
    Likes (Received)
    576

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an



    But hadiths like this infer that Quran was already in the form of Book before the demise of Prophet

    Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 840

    Anas b. Malik reported, Abu Bakr led them in prayer due to the illness of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of which be died. It was a Monday and they stood in rows for prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew aside the curtain of ('A'isha's) apartment and looked at us while he was standing, and his (Prophet's) face was (as bright) as the paper of the Holy Book. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) felt happy and smiled. And we were confounded with joy while in prayer due to the arrival (among our midst) of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), Abu Bakr stepped back upon his heels to say prayer in a row perceiving that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had come out for prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) with the help of his hand signed to them to complete their prayer. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) went back (to his apartment) and drew the curtain. He (the narrator) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) breathed his last on that very day.


    Allah Knows the Best
    Last edited by talibilm; 12-03-2017 at 02:41 PM.
    1 | Likes OmAbdullah liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    OmAbdullah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    717
    Threads
    40
    Reputation
    3249
    Rep Power
    23
    Likes (Given)
    612
    Likes (Received)
    308

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Sister, sorry but I think you have a major misunderstanding problem. I have noticed this in some other posts of you. How what you wrote in this post is an answer to my above post? I am very well aware of that Quran was written on papers by the scribes in the life time of the Propeht aleyhissalam. But it was not compiled as a book. Did you know this? It was done by Abu Bakr r.a.. Please firstly understand what people exactly say, then try to give a related answer.

    In fact you have no understanding of the Holy Quraan and in spite of that you speak with force. That is very dangerous. Do you consider Allah All-Mighty such a one that when He (Allah All-Mighty ) points to the Book in your and my hands in this world, it means that the Book was incomplete But He always, (before and now ) pointed to the Book in the Lohil-Mahfooz??? If your thoughts about Allah Ta'aala are such then what good can be expected from you??? Alas! Again Alas!



    I also have noted this character of yours in other posts on this very forum. Your love and respect for the wrong-doers is much more than for Allah. Allah said: "...Those who believe, they love Allah the most..."
    (Surah Al-Baqarah 165)


    If I criticized someone, that I did with evidence from his/her words posted on this very forum. I try my best to write things in the light of clear evidence and Quraan is the Al-Furqaan (criterion) for me.


    But you without showing gheera/honor /love/and respect for Allah, start strongly praising the one who has been playing mockery with the great Name of Allah. That is very shocking. Even more shocking is the fact that at the present time most of the Muslims don't have Gheera for Allah, Allah's Final Prophet salla Allaho Alaihi wa sallam and for Islam. But they, at least, keep quiet and do not stand in favor of the mockery-makers while you do stand to defend them. That is a dangerous state of Eemaan ( the faith of Islam). I had noted it even before and was shocked but I tried to be patient until you gave me again a chance to tell you the truth about you.



    - - - Updated - - -



    Aleykum Salam. When Quran refers to itself as a "Book" it doesnt necesariliy mean it is an actual book written on papers. Quran was already a book written in Levh-i Mahfouz in the side of Allah before it was revealed. We are discussing the issue why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet.

    You are very great, na'aouzubi-Allah. You are asking Allah, " why it was not a compiled full book written on papers at the time of the Prophet".


    The answer lies in your own question. Your mind is not satisfied with the fabricated stories of the enemies of Islam. So it is restless. The same mind (Self criticizing spirit) will be witness on you on the Day of Judgment that you were following the liars blindly without your using the great mind that Allah has given to you to ponder seriously on all matters and then decide in the light of the great knowledge of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. If you only trust Allah and start believing that the story-makers are liars and are the enemies of humanity at large, your mind will get satisfied and this question will disappear from your mind.


    Of course, Quraan could not be written on papers at that time but it was written on leather sheets in the form of complete book and that Book was placed with Hafza rAa by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam himself. So in future the companions rAa took that copy from her again and again to write more Quraans as more and more people became Muslims. This is the true story which a sound mind can accept with full satisfaction.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

  20. #16
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,300
    Threads
    30
    Reputation
    4689
    Rep Power
    65
    Likes (Given)
    226
    Likes (Received)
    732

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    I really have no idea about what you try to say. If you become more specific I believe I can help you.
    Preservation of Qur'an

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

  21. #17
    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,049
    Threads
    292
    Reputation
    116893
    Rep Power
    139
    Likes (Given)
    1128
    Likes (Received)
    3443

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an



    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    it was written on leather sheets in the form of complete book and that Book was placed with Hafza rAa by the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam himself
    Do you have any source for this statement? I just want to make sure that you are not making up lies about the Prophet .


    Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari , who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation:

    Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). `Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, `Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an."
    Abu Bakr added, "I said to `Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' `Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So `Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as `Umar."

    Zaid bin Thabit added: `Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr ) and was not speaking to me. Abu Bakr then said. "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness), and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Messenger . Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)."

    By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr ) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing."

    So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and `Umar . So I started locating Qur'anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128)

    The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with `Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, `Umar's daughter. [Bukhari]

  22. #18
    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,049
    Threads
    292
    Reputation
    116893
    Rep Power
    139
    Likes (Given)
    1128
    Likes (Received)
    3443

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    The Qur'an is a unique book. It is the words of Allah Himself. It was revealed on the heart of the Prophet .

    It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an that it wasn't sent down as written book. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation.

    Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿١٩٢﴾ نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ ﴿١٩٣﴾ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ ﴿١٩٤﴾ بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ ﴿١٩٥﴾ـ

    And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
    The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
    Upon your heart
    , [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
    In a clear Arabic language. [26:192-195]

    Previous scriptures were in written from yet they were corrupted. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it is revealed on the heart of our Prophet and it passes on from a heart to millions of hearts until Allah wills for it to be lifted near the last Day.

    To preserve the complete Qur'an, Jibra'eel used to recite the Qur'an to the Prophet every year during Ramadhan.

    Narrated Abu-Huraira

    Gabriel used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet once a year, but he repeated it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet used to stay in I'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramadan), but in the year of his death, he stayed in I'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari]

    As we can see from the above Hadith, the Qur'an was completely finalized as we have it now during the last year of the Prophet . Since then, there has been no additions or subtractions.


    The Qur'an was completely memorized by heart by several companions of the Prophet during his lifetime. It was also written down completely during his lifetime itself but the written parchments were scattered among the companions.

    During the time of first Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq , the written parchments were compiled together in a book form, commonly known as مصحف MusHaf. During the compilation, each written verse was confirmed by at least two companions who had it memorized and written during the Prophet's lifetime.

    Then again, during the time of the third Khalifah, 'Uthman ibn 'Affan , Islam became widespread and people began reciting the Qur'an with a slight tint of their own dialects. In order to preserve the original dialect in which Qur'an was revealed, he ordered copies of the Qur'an in the original Quraish dialect to be made and distributed to all provinces, and asked other various dialects to be discarded.

    It is important to note that we have several un-broken mutawatir chains of narration of the Qur'an present even until now.



    Difference between Qur'an and MusHaf

    Most people do not know the difference between these two terms. They may not have even come across the words mushaf (pronounced as mos-Haf) before. This is the reason why they confuse between the two and automatically assume that the MusHaf is itself the Qur'an.


    The Qur'an is the actual words of Allah revealed on the prophet . It is the recitation, the actual recited words and Ayaat and Suwar (pl. of Surah), consisting of 114 Surah in total.

    Whereas, the musHaf is the “compiled, written pages of the Qur’an.” In other words, the term “Qur'an” refers to the specific “revelation that was read to Prophet Muhammad” whereas the term “mushaf” denotes the “written form” of that revelation.

    Each mushaf follows a particular “Qira’a (reading)” of the Qur’an. A “reading” is a way of writing or pronouncing the Qur’anic text. There are seven readings of the Qur’an that are considered authoritative.

    A mushaf may be written using any of a number of different Arabic scripts. For instance, one mushaf may be written using the Kufi script and another using Thulth.

    Furthermore, Arabic scripts developed over time, which means older mushafs that were written using the same script look different from new ones. For instance, the use of diacritical marks (dots above or under letters), which is known as “i’jam,” and the use of voweling marks (signs representing vowels), which is known as “tashkil,” were both introduced later into Arabic scripts, so early mushafs did not have them. The availability of a number of readings and scripts means that different mushafs may look differently.


    All mushafs have the same organization of chapters and the verses within each chapter. For instance, every mushaf starts with the chapter of “al-Fatiha (Opening)” and ends with the chapter of “an-Nas (people).” However, chapters and verses are not listed in the mushaf in the chronological order of their revelation. For instance, the first verses of the Qur’an that were revealed to the Prophet are from chapter 96 in the mushaf.
    This is why there is only one Qur’an but different mushafs. But the differences between those mushafs are minimal, as they are written, compiled records of the one and same Qur’an.



    In conclusion, the Qur'an was complete as an orally recited book during the lifetime of the prophet , and was written down on several parchments and their copies with several different companions, but it wasn't compiled in a mushaf form that we see today. The first mushaf was prepared during the time of Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq .


    Definitions and explanation taken from http://www.quranicstudies.com/quran/...an-and-mushaf/
    2 | Likes Scimitar, talibilm liked this post

  23. #19
    Insaanah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,448
    Threads
    174
    Reputation
    152321
    Rep Power
    131
    Likes (Given)
    1148
    Likes (Received)
    3301

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an



    "The prophet did not bind all the surahs together into one master volume, as evidenced by Zaid bin Thabit's statement that,

    قبض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يكن القرآن جمع في شيء

    The Prophet was taken [from this life] whilst the Qur'an had not yet been gathered in anything"

    Note the usage of the word 'gathered' rather than 'written'."

    Ibn Hajar, Fathul Bari, ix:12

    Source:
    A history of the Quranic text, from revelation
    to compilation, by M. M. Al-Azami

    https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/his...ranic_text.pdf

    This book deals with the subject in detail and with authentic sources.

    And Allah knows best.
    Last edited by Insaanah; 12-04-2017 at 10:09 PM.
    1 | Likes Scimitar liked this post
    Preservation of Qur'an

    (Click on the pink)


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    Scimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,155
    Threads
    94
    Reputation
    48526
    Rep Power
    73
    Likes (Given)
    8322
    Likes (Received)
    6015

    Re: Preservation of Qur'an

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post


    Here in this video the speakers said that in some is kabeer and in some is katheer, the two have similar meaning that is great /big and many etc.


    I inform you that there is no such difference in the Holy Quraan. Take a Quraan from any part of the world and compare it with another One from other part of the world. You will not find the difference of a single letter. I advise or challenge the speakers to show that difference of kabeer and kaseer in any two Quraans. I am waiting.
    You did not know that there were variant recitations of the Qur'an which changed the intended meanings of the words? For example, Maaliki was recited as Maliki by Muslims from the African sub-continent? And so - the need to standardise the Arabic into the recitation of the Prophet pbuh was initiated? DO you know how much of a difference there is between Maalik, and Malik? One means Owner and the other means King. These are not the same in intention. An Owner can never be questioned about his propery, because it is his to do what he wants with, but a King has to answer to the Owner, and only Allah is the Owner.

    This is BASIC info bro. If you don't know what you are talking about, with respect, shut it!
    Last edited by Scimitar; 12-04-2017 at 10:15 PM.
    Preservation of Qur'an


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Hey there! Preservation of Qur'an Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Preservation of Qur'an
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. The preservation of Hadith
    By Salahudeen in forum Hadith
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 03:40 PM
  2. God's Preservation of the Sunnah
    By Ummu Sufyaan in forum Hadith
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-31-2009, 02:49 PM
  3. *!* God’s Preservation of the Sunnah *!*
    By Khayal in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-14-2007, 03:22 AM
  4. Preservation of the Quran....
    By al-fateh in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-19-2006, 01:22 AM
  5. Preservation of The Qur'an
    By Bint-Al-Islam in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-2005, 09:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create