Apologies if this has been asked before, but this person has highlighted missing pages on stoning, adultery as well as the preservation of the Quran and the versions before Egypt's standardised Quran.
The link to their reply is: [link removed] (only a short read).
I wouldn't know how to reply to this as my family has only recently started to practice again and aren't interested in addressing these questions, so if anyone could take the time to explain this and educate me I would be very grateful
Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 07-31-2018 at 11:11 AM.
Reason: link removed
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
I too had initially supposed that the ahadith on such Quranic verses were true, however, after further reading, my analysis of the ahadith and Quran, show that there were no such Quranic verses, rather it was a Torah ruling which was abrogated by the Quran - the ahadith claiming that there were such verses are most probably fabricated.
Edit - found a better and more complete and accurate source:
Abu Hurairah and Zaid b. Khalid al-Juhani said:
Two men brought a dispute before the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). One of them said: Pronounce judgement between us in accordance with Allah’s Book, Messenger of Allah! The other who had more understanding said: Yes, Messenger of Allah! Pronounce judgement between us in accordance with Allah’s Book, and allow me to speak. He (the Prophet) said: Speak, He then said: My son who was a hired servant with this(man) committed fornication with his wife, and when I was told that my son must be stoned to death, I ransomed him with a hundred sheep and a slave girl of mine; but when I asked the learned, they told me that my son should receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year, and that stoning to death applied only to man’s wife. The apostle of Allah (ﷺ) replied: By him in whose hand my soul is, I shall certainly pronounce judgment between you in accordance with Allah’s Book. Your sheep and your slave girl must be returned to you, and your son shall receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year. And he commanded Unias al-Aslami go to that man’s wife, and if she confessed, he should stone her to death. She confessed and he stoned her.
(26)Chapter: The stoning of the two jews(26) باب فِي رَجْمِ الْيَهُودِيَّيْنِ
Ibn ‘Umar said:
some jews came to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and mentioned to him that a man and a women of their number had committed fornication. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) asked them: What do you find in the Torah about stoning? They replied: We disgrace them and they should be flogged. ‘Abd Allah b. Salam said: You lie; it contains (instruction for) stoning. So they brought the Torah and spread it out, and one of them put his hand over the verse of stoning and read what preceded it and what followed it. ‘Abd Allah b. Salam said to him: Lift your hand. When he did so, the verse of stoning was seen to be in it. They then said: He has spoken the truth, Muhammad, the verse of stoning is in it. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then gave command regarding them, and they were stoned to death. ‘Abd Allah b. ‘Umar said: I saw the man leaning on the woman protecting her from the stones.
حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ، قَالَ قَرَأْتُ عَلَى مَالِكِ بْنِ أَنَسٍ عَنْ نَافِعٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ إِنَّ الْيَهُودَ جَاءُوا إِلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَذَكَرُوا لَهُ أَنَّ رَجُلاً مِنْهُمْ وَامْرَأَةً زَنَيَا فَقَالَ لَهُمْ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم " مَا تَجِدُونَ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ فِي شَأْنِ الزِّنَا " . فَقَالُوا نَفْضَحُهُمْ وَيُجْلَدُونَ . فَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ سَلاَمٍ كَذَبْتُمْ إِنَّ فِيهَا الرَّجْمَ . فَأَتَوْا بِالتَّوْرَاةِ فَنَشَرُوهَا فَجَعَلَ أَحَدُهُمْ يَدَهُ عَلَى آيَةِ الرَّجْمِ ثُمَّ جَعَلَ يَقْرَأُ مَا قَبْلَهَا وَمَا بَعْدَهَا فَقَالَ لَهُ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ سَلاَمٍ ارْفَعْ يَدَكَ . فَرَفَعَهَا فَإِذَا فِيهَا آيَةُ الرَّجْمِ فَقَالُوا صَدَقَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ فِيهَا آيَةُ الرَّجْمِ . فَأَمَرَ بِهِمَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَرُجِمَا . قَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عُمَرَ فَرَأَيْتُ الرَّجُلَ يَحْنِي عَلَى الْمَرْأَةِ يَقِيهَا الْحِجَارَةَ .
Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani) صحيح (الألباني) حكم :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4446
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 96
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4431
Al-Bara’ b. Azib said:
The people passed by the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) with a jew whose face blackened with charcoal and he was being taken around. He adjured them by Allah and asked: What is the prescribed punishment for a fornicator in your Divine book? He (the narrator) said: They referred him to a man of them. The Prophet (ﷺ) adjured him and asked: What is the punishment for a fornication in your Divine Book? He replied: Stoning. But fornication spread among our people of rank, so we disliked that a person of rank should be left alone and the punishment be inflicted on one who is lower in rank than him. So we suspended it for us. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then commanded regarding him and he was stoned to death. He then said: O Allah! I am the first to give life to a command of Thy Book which they had killed.
حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَاحِدِ بْنُ زِيَادٍ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مُرَّةَ، عَنِ الْبَرَاءِ بْنِ عَازِبٍ، قَالَ مَرُّوا عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِيَهُودِيٍّ قَدْ حُمِّمَ وَجْهُهُ وَهُوَ يُطَافُ بِهِ فَنَاشَدَهُمْ مَا حَدُّ الزَّانِي فِي كِتَابِهِمْ قَالَ فَأَحَالُوهُ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْهُمْ فَنَشَدَهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم " مَا حَدُّ الزَّانِي فِي كِتَابِكُمْ " . فَقَالَ الرَّجْمُ وَلَكِنْ ظَهَرَ الزِّنَا فِي أَشْرَافِنَا فَكَرِهْنَا أَنْ يُتْرَكَ الشَّرِيفُ وَيُقَامَ عَلَى مَنْ دُونَهُ فَوَضَعْنَا هَذَا عَنَّا . فَأَمَرَ بِهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَرُجِمَ ثُمَّ قَالَ " اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَوَّلُ مَنْ أَحْيَا مَا أَمَاتُوا مِنْ كِتَابِكَ " .
Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani) صحيح (الألباني) حكم :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4447
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 97
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4432
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Narrated Al-Bara' ibn Azib:
The people passed by the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) with a Jew who was blackened with charcoal and who was being flogged.
He called them and said: Is this the prescribed punishment for a fornicator?
They said: Yes. He then called on a learned man among them and asked him: I adjure you by Allah Who revealed the Torah to Moses, do you find this prescribed punishment for a fornicator in your divine Book?
He said: By Allah, no. If you had not adjured me about this, I should not have informed you. We find stoning to be prescribed punishment for a fornicator in our Divine Book. But it (fornication) became frequent in our people of rank; so when we seized a person of rank, we left him alone, and when we seized a weak person, we inflicted the prescribed punishment on him. So we said: Come, let us agree on something which may be enforced equally on people of higher and lower rank. So we agreed to blacken the face of a criminal with charcoal, and flog him, and we abandoned stoning.
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then said: O Allah, I am the first to give life to Thy command which they have killed. So he commanded regarding him (the Jew) and he was stoned to death.
Allah Most High then sent down: "O Apostle, let not those who race one another into unbelief, make thee grieve..." up to "They say: If you are given this, take it, but if not, beware!...." up to "And if any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) unbelievers," about Jews, up to "And if any do fail to judge by (the right of) what Allah hath revealed, they are no better than) wrong-doers" about Jews: and revealed the verses up to "And if any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel." About this he said: This whole verse was revealed about the infidels.
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:
A group of Jews came and invited the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.
They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.
He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi'(No. 4431).
حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ الْهَمْدَانِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ وَهْبٍ، حَدَّثَنِي هِشَامُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ، أَنَّ زَيْدَ بْنَ أَسْلَمَ، حَدَّثَهُ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، قَالَ أَتَى نَفَرٌ مِنْ يَهُودَ فَدَعَوْا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِلَى الْقُفِّ فَأَتَاهُمْ فِي بَيْتِ الْمِدْرَاسِ فَقَالُوا يَا أَبَا الْقَاسِمِ إِنَّ رَجُلاً مِنَّا زَنَى بِامْرَأَةٍ فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ فَوَضَعُوا لِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وِسَادَةً فَجَلَسَ عَلَيْهَا ثُمَّ قَالَ " ائْتُونِي بِالتَّوْرَاةِ " . فَأُتِيَ بِهَا فَنَزَعَ الْوِسَادَةَ مِنْ تَحْتِهِ فَوَضَعَ التَّوْرَاةَ عَلَيْهَا ثُمَّ قَالَ " آمَنْتُ بِكِ وَبِمَنْ أَنْزَلَكِ " . ثُمَّ قَالَ " ائْتُونِي بِأَعْلَمِكُمْ " . فَأُتِيَ بِفَتًى شَابٍّ ثُمَّ ذَكَرَ قِصَّةَ الرَّجْمِ نَحْوَ حَدِيثِ مَالِكٍ عَنْ نَافِعٍ .
Grade : Hasan (Al-Albani) حسن (الألباني) حكم :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4449
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 99
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4434
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
(This is Ma'mar's version which is more accurate.) A man and a woman of the Jews committed fornication.
Some of them said to the others: Let us go to this Prophet, for he has been sent with an easy law. If he gives a judgment lighter than stoning, we shall accept it, and argue about it with Allah, saying: It is a judgment of one of your prophets. So they came to the Prophet (ﷺ) who was sitting in the mosque among his companions.
They said: AbulQasim, what do you think about a man and a woman who committed fornication? He did not speak to them a word till he went to their school.
He stood at the gate and said: I adjure you by Allah Who revealed the Torah to Moses, what (punishment) do you find in the Torah for a person who commits fornication, if he is married?
They said: He shall be blackened with charcoal, taken round a donkey among the people, and flogged. A young man among them kept silent.
When the Prophet (ﷺ) emphatically adjured him, he said: By Allah, since you have adjured us (we inform you that) we find stoning in the Torah (is the punishment for fornication).
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: So when did you lessen the severity of Allah's command? He said:
A relative of one of our kings had committed fornication, but his stoning was suspended. Then a man of a family of common people committed fornication. He was to have been stoned, but his people intervened and said: Our man shall not be stoned until you bring your man and stone him. So they made a compromise on this punishment between them.
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: So I decide in accordance with what the Torah says. He then commanded regarding them and they were stoned to death.
Az-Zuhri said: We have been informed that this verse was revealed about them: "It was We Who revealed the Law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the Prophet who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will.
Abu Hurairah said:
A man and a woman of the Jews who were married committed fornication at the time when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) came to Medina. Stoning was a prescribed punishment for them in accordance with the Torah, but they abandoned it and followed tajbiyyah, meaning, the man was beaten a hundred times with a rope painted with tar and was seated on a donkey with his face towards the tail of the donkey. Their rabbis then assembled and sent some people to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). They said to them: Ask him about the prescribed punishment for fornication. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition. They version adds: They were not the followers of his religion, and he (the prophet) was to pronounce judgment between them. So he was given a choice in this verse:”If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere.
But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.
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الراوي زيد بن ثابت: قال زيد كنا نقرأ والشيخ والشيخة . . فقال مروان أفلا نجعله في المصحف قال لا ألا ترى أن الشابين الثيبين يرجمان قال وقال ذكروا ذلك وفينا عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه قال أنا أشفيكم من ذاك قال قلنا كيف قال آتي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فأذكر كذا وكذا فإذا ذكر الرجم أقول يا رسول الله أكتبني آية الرجم قال فأتيته فذكرته قال فذكر آية الرجم قال فقال يا رسول الله أكتبني آية الرجم قال لا أستطيع ذاك
"Narrated Zaid Bin Thabit: we used to read: "The old man and the old woman." Marwan said: "Shouldn't we write it down as part of the written Quran?" He replied: "Don't you see that the two young married (adulterers) are to be stoned?" And Umar Bin Al Khattab - may Allah be pleased with him was with us then, so he said: "I will get the answer." We both said: "How?" He said: "From the Prophet, and I will mention such and such to him, and when I get to stoning, I will say: Oh Messenger of Allah, allow me to write the stoning verse." He (Umar) said: "O Messenger of Allah, let me write the stoning verse. He said: "I can't."
(Sunan Al-Baihaqi - Classed Sahih By Baihaqi & Sheikh Albani In: Silsilat Al-Sahiha, 6/974 - Source. Also In Sunan Nasai, 3046).
كتاب الحدود 86 Limits and Punishments set by Allah (Hudood)
(21)Chapter: The Rajm of a married person
(21)باب رَجْمِ الْمُحْصَنِ
وَقَالَ الْحَسَنُ مَنْ زَنَى بِأُخْتِهِ حَدُّهُ حَدُّ الزَّانِي.
Narrated Ash Shaibani:
I asked `Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa, 'Did Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) carry out the Rajam penalty ( i.e., stoning to death)?' He said, "Yes." I said, "Before the revelation of Surat-an-Nur or after it?"
He replied, "I don't Know."
حَدَّثَنِي إِسْحَاقُ، حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، عَنِ الشَّيْبَانِيِّ، سَأَلْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ أَبِي أَوْفَى هَلْ رَجَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ نَعَمْ. قُلْتُ قَبْلَ سُورَةِ النُّورِ أَمْ بَعْدُ قَالَ لاَ أَدْرِي.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6813
In-book reference : Book 86, Hadith 43
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 804
(deprecated numbering scheme)
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
Ibn Abbas said: A lunatic woman who had committed adultery was brought to Umar. He consulted the people and ordered that she should be stoned.
Ali ibn AbuTalib passed by and said: What is the matter with this (woman)? They said: This is a lunatic woman belonging to a certain family. She has committed adultery. Umar has given orders that she should be stoned.
He said: Take her back. He then came to him and said: Commander of the Faithful, do you not know that there are three people whose actions are not recorded: a lunatic till he is restored to reason, a sleeper till he awakes, and a boy till he reaches puberty?
He said: Yes. He then asked: Why is it that this woman is being stoned?
He said: There is nothing. He then said: Let her go. He (Umar) let her go and began to utter: Allah is most great.
A similar tradition has also been transmitted by al-A’mash through a different chain of narrators. He also said :
“... . Till he reaches puberty , and a lunatic till he is restored to consciousness.” ‘Umar then began to utter: Allah is most great.
حَدَّثَنَا يُوسُفُ بْنُ مُوسَى، حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، نَحْوَهُ وَقَالَ أَيْضًا حَتَّى يَعْقِلَ . وَقَالَ وَعَنِ الْمَجْنُونِ حَتَّى يُفِيقَ . قَالَ فَجَعَلَ عُمَرُ يُكَبِّرُ .
Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani) -صحيح - (الألباني) حكم - - :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4400
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 50
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4386
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Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
Ibn Abbas said: A lunatic woman passed by Ali ibn AbuTalib. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect as Uthman mentioned. This version has: Do you not remember that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) has said: There are three whose actions are not recorded: a lunatic whose mind is deranged till he is restored to consciousness, a sleeper till he awakes, and a boy till he reaches puberty?
حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ السَّرْحِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ وَهْبٍ، أَخْبَرَنِي جَرِيرُ بْنُ حَازِمٍ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ، عَنْ أَبِي ظَبْيَانَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ مُرَّ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رضى الله عنه بِمَعْنَى عُثْمَانَ . قَالَ أَوَمَا تَذْكُرُ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ " رُفِعَ الْقَلَمُ عَنْ ثَلاَثَةٍ عَنِ الْمَجْنُونِ الْمَغْلُوبِ عَلَى عَقْلِهِ حَتَّى يُفِيقَ وَعَنِ النَّائِمِ حَتَّى يَسْتَيْقِظَ وَعَنِ الصَّبِيِّ حَتَّى يَحْتَلِمَ " . قَالَ صَدَقْتَ قَالَ فَخَلَّى عَنْهَا سَبِيلَهَا .
Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani) -صحيح - (الألباني) حكم - - :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4401
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 51
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4387
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
AbuZubyan said: A woman who had committed adultery was brought to Umar. He gave orders that she should be stoned.
Ali passed by just then. He seized her and let her go. Umar was informed of it. He said: Ask Ali to come to me. Ali came to him and said: Commander of the Faithful, you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: There are three (people) whose actions are not recorded: A boy till he reaches puberty, a sleeper till he awakes, a lunatic till he is restored to reason. This is an idiot (mad) woman belonging to the family of so and so. Someone might have done this action with her when she suffered the fit of lunacy.
Umar said: I do not know. Ali said: I do not know.
The married old man and old woman, if they commit adultery, then stone them irrevocably.
Umar said, “When this was revealed, I went to the Prophet and I said: Let me write it.” Shu’bah said:
فَكَأَنَّهُ كَرِهَ ذَلِكَ
It was as if the Prophet disliked that.
Source: Musnad Aḥmad 21086, Grade: Sahih
In another narration, the Prophet said:
لا أَسْتَطِيعُ ذَاكَ
I cannot have it written.
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'Umar bin Al-Khattab said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stoned, Abu Bakr stoned, and I stoned. If I didn't dislike that I add to the Book of Allah. I would have written it in the Mushaf, for I fear that there will come a people and they will not find it in the Book of Allah, so they will disbelieve in it."
حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مَنِيعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ الأَزْرَقُ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ بْنِ أَبِي هِنْدٍ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ، قَالَ رَجَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَرَجَمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَرَجَمْتُ وَلَوْلاَ أَنِّي أَكْرَهُ أَنْ أَزِيدَ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ لَكَتَبْتُهُ فِي الْمُصْحَفِ فَإِنِّي قَدْ خَشِيتُ أَنْ تَجِيءَ أَقْوَامٌ فَلاَ يَجِدُونَهُ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ فَيَكْفُرُونَ بِهِ . قَالَ وَفِي الْبَابِ عَنْ عَلِيٍّ . قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى حَدِيثُ عُمَرَ حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ صَحِيحٌ وَرُوِيَ مِنْ غَيْرِ وَجْهٍ عَنْ عُمَرَ .
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1431
In-book reference : Book 17, Hadith 11
English translation : Vol. 3, Book 15, Hadith 1431
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Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
That the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) lashed and banished, Abu Bakr lashed and banished, and 'Umar lashed and banished.
Is this hadeeth saheeh, and what does it mean: “Do not write anything from me, and whoever writes anything but the Qur’aan, let him erase it”? May Allaah reward you with good.
Praise be to Allaah.
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)
Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:
“Al-Qaadi said: there were many disputes among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een concerning the writing down of knowledge. Many of them regarded this as being makrooh, but most of them regarded it as permissible. This dispute is no longer an issue.
They differed as to the meaning of this hadeeth which says that it is forbidden. It was said that this pertained to one who was sure of his memory, and there was the fear that he may rely upon what he had written if he wrote it down; the ahaadeeth which say that it is permissible to write things down is to be interpreted as referring to the one whose memory is not reliable, such as the hadeeth, “Write it down for Abu Shaah”; or the hadeeth of the saheefah of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him); the hadeeth of the book of ‘Amr ibn Hazm, which contains laws on inheritance, sunnahs and diyaat (blood money); the hadeeth about writing down charity, and the minimum amounts at which zakaah becomes obligatory (nisaab), with which Abu Bakr sent Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) to Bahrain; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which says that Ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas used to ; write things down but he (Abu Hurayrah) did not write things down, and other ahaadeeth. And it was said that the hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth. The prohibition was in effect when there was the fear that (the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) might be mixed with the Qur’aan. When that danger was no longer present, permission was given to write down (ahaadeeth). And it was said that the prohibition mentioned in the hadeeth referred to writing ahaadeeth on the same page as Qur’aan, lest they become mixed and thus the reader would be confused when looking at this page. And Allaah knows best.
The hadeeth of Abu Shaah was narrated by al-Bukhaari from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: ‘When Allaah granted His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) victory over Makkah, he stood before the people and praised and glorified Allaah, then he said: “Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate.” Al-‘Abbas said, “Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Except Al-Idhkhir.” Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Write it for Abu Shaah.” (al-Luqatah, 2254)
Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah (“Write it for Abu Shaah”) is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.
This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).
The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.
It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.
The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”
Fatima bint Qais (Allah be pleased with her) reported:
My husband divorced me with three pronouncements and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) made no provision for lodging and maintenance allowance.
وَحَدَّثَنِي حَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ الْحُلْوَانِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ آدَمَ، حَدَّثَنَا حَسَنُ بْنُ صَالِحٍ، عَنِ السُّدِّيِّ، عَنِ الْبَهِيِّ، عَنْ فَاطِمَةَ بِنْتِ قَيْسٍ، قَالَتْ طَلَّقَنِي زَوْجِي ثَلاَثًا فَلَمْ يَجْعَلْ لِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم سُكْنَى وَلاَ نَفَقَةً .
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1480 t
In-book reference : Book 18, Hadith 64
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 9, Hadith 3530
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The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
Quran Chapter 24, verse 2
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19 The Book of Invoking Curses
(1)Chapter: (1) باب
AI-Mughira b. Shu'ba (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Sa'd b. 'Ubada (Allah be pleased with him) said:
If I were to see a man with my wife, I would have struck him with the sword, and not with the flat part (side) of it. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) heard of that, he said: Are you surprised at Sa'd's jealousy of his honour? By Allah, I am more jealous of my honour than he, and Allah is more jealous than I. Because of His jealousy Allah has prohibited abomination, both open and secret And no person is more jealous of his honour than Allah, and no persons, is more fond of accepting an excuse than Allah, on account of which He has sent messengers, announcers of glad tidings and warners; and no one is more fond of praise than Allah on account of which Allah has promised Paradise.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1499 a
In-book reference : Book 19, Hadith 22
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 9, Hadith 3572
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كتاب اللعان 19 The Book of Invoking Curses
(1)Chapter: (1) باب
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Sa'd b. Ubada (Allah be pleased with him) said:
Messenger of Allah, if I were to find with my wife a man, should I not touch him before bringing four witnesses? Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Yes. He said: By no means. By Him Who has sent you with the Truth, I would hasten with my sword to him before that. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Listen to what your chief says. He is jealous of his honour, I am more jealous than he (is) and God is more jealous than I.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1498 c
In-book reference : Book 19, Hadith 21
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 9, Hadith 3571
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We can see clearly that each ruling was according to the specific circumstance, and also that the statements of the messenger of Allah and the rulings of the Torah regarding specific circumstances were not allowed to be confused the Quran - and that the ruling of Allah in the Quran is absolutely clear.
When so much is obvious - along with this:
(27)Chapter: Al-Qasama in the Pre-Islamic Period of Ignorance(27)باب الْقَسَامَةُ فِي الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ
Narrated `Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3849
In-book reference : Book 63, Hadith 75
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 5, Book 58, Hadith 188
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(The question would arise as to how he knew the reason - even if he had said it - unless he was referring to jews who were compared to monkeys by the early Muslims for the fact that they were transformed for breaking the sabbath).
On the authority of Mujahid, in regards to The Almighty’s saying {Do you tell them what Allah has made known to you (2:76)}, he said: On the day of qurayzdhah, the Prophet ﷺ stood under their [the jews of banu qurayzdhah] fort and said: “O brothers of monkeys, and o brothers of pigs, and o worshipers of the devil.” They said, “Who told this to Muhammad? This [fact] couldn’t have left except through [one of] you.” (Tafsiir Tabari)
This verse also establishes the truthfulness of the Prophet’s ﷺ prophethood. Some of the jews were turned into monkeys and pigs by Allah for their disobeying the command He gave them. So Allah punished them by turning them into monkeys and pigs. The jews were very embarrassed at this part of their history and it was a closely guarded secret among themselves. However, Allah made this known to our Master RasulAllah ﷺ by revelation and they were utterly shocked and humiliated. This narration of the Prophet ﷺ addressing the jews as “brothers of monkeys and pigs and worshipers of the devil” is mentioned in many of the books of tafsiir. The above is quoted from Tafsiir of Tabari, which is the mother of all tafsiir books.
Translation of meaning: The similitude of the people who were given the Torah and then they didn’t follow it, is to that of a donkey carrying books; what a disgraceful similitude there is for those who deny the signs of Allah; and Allah does not guide a transgressing people.
[Holy Quran 62:5]
Translation of meaning: Say*, “Shall I inform you of that which is viler than this in front of Allah? – Those upon whom He unleashed His Wrath and made them monkeys and pigs and rendered worshipers of the devil. Their abode is much worse and they are more astray from the right path [Holy Quran 5:60]
* – that is to say, Say-to the jews who mock the Muslims for no reason other than their own defiance and obstinacy and the Muslims acknowledging the truth and worshiping of Allah's beloved Prophet.
فَلَمَّا نزلت هَذِهِ الآية عيرت اليهود فقالوا لهم: يا إخوان القردة والخنازير. فنكسوا رءوسهم وفضحهم اللَّه تَعَالَى
Then when this verse was revealed, the jews were exposed and [the Sahaba] said to them: O brothers of monkeys and pigs! And they [the jews] hung their heads in shame as Allah Ta’ala revealed them [by this public exposure of their closely guarded secret]
“But how is it that they make you their judge when they have the Torah, wherein is God’s judgment,” of stoning: the interrogative here is for [provoking] amazement, in other words, they were not seeking thereby [by making you their judge] to discover the truth but a lighter punishment for them; “and then they turn away,” [and then] they reject your ruling of stoning, which accords with what is in their Scripture; “after that,” request [to you] for arbitration? “Such are not believers.”[5]
It is for this reason that Ibn ‘Abbas said:
“He who disbelieves in stoning (the adulterer to death) will have inadvertently disbelieved in the Qur’an, for Allah said, ‘O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture’ (Qur’an 5: 15); and stoning was among the things that they used to hide.”[6]
The above statement attributed to ibn abbas doesn't hold water when we know that there is no such Quranic ruling and that the Torah ruling is abrogated by the Quranic ruling.
It becomes evident that the wisdom of the Quran is certainly the best foundation for deriving rulings and judgements, that the ahadith are to be studied with more scrutiny when seeking wisdom - and that the Prophet did not allow people to play about and remain content with commiting kufr and transgression, and then use him as a doormat whenever they wanted to find an excuse to escape the consequences of the laws to which they claimed to adhere.
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The above statement attributed to ibn abbas doesn't hold water when we know that there is no such Quranic ruling and that the Torah ruling is abrogated by the Quranic ruling.
Are you denying the ruling of rajm for married adulterers?
The saying of Ibn 'Abbas is 100% correct. The ruling is still there for Muslims as well, even though the ayah was abrogated.
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
My main task is not to deny, but to confirm the truth, and i am not suggesting but confirming the fact that It was an early statement and ruling of the Prophet based on ijtihaad after consultation on previous rulings in the Torah, and which he didn't allow to be written down despite requests - and which was abrogated by the ayaat of Allah in Quran, Chapter 24, Verse 2.
Analyse and decide what you want to do with that statement since it is not my job to beat around the bush but to clarify the truth - and it is Allah's task to call you to account on your decisions.
Ibn Abbas 's ruling was in reference to the Torah too - if you would bother to analyse properly - and his rulings cannot override the renewed word of Allah - and he wouldn't do such a thing.
Ibn Al-Qayyim reported: Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Stones are about the rain down upon you from the heavens! I say to you what was said by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and you say what Abu Bakr and Umar said?”
Source: Zad Al-Ma’ad 2/195
عن ابن القيم قال ابن عبّاس رضي الله عنه يُوشِكُ أَنْ تَنْزِلَ عَلَيْكُمْ حِجَارَةٌ مِنْ السَّمَاء أَقُولُ لَكُمْ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَتَقُولُونَ قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرُ
2/195 زاد المعاد في هدي خير العباد لابن القيم فصل في دعوى اختصاص ذلك بالصحابة
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
format_quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
So you understand the rulings better than Ibn Abbas and are able to analyze the sayings of Rasulullah better than the Sahabah!
Allahu Akbar, if only your heart was open to what Allah Himself wants, you would not have rejected or scorned me, but would have assisted me in my task, for i seek not my own glory but that of the Most High who sent me to unite you upon the truth and to release you from the disunity and sorry state you are in - you will unite under no one else unless under falsehood, tyranny, and oppression, and you will all make your own democratic choice before Allah : in your prayers or rebellion ultimately.
Either way, i will be relieved of the current burden upon me and will be happy again.
Analyze the statement of ibn Abbaas and if you have a decent enough iq, you should come to the understanding that he is telling you that the ruling was derived from the Torah, considering the circumstances and the Quranic abrogation - he was most likely saying this before the verses of Surah an-Nur came down.
27They arrived again in Jerusalem, and while Jesus was walking in the temple courts, the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders came to him. 28“By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you authority to do this?”
29Jesus replied, “I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 30John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin? Tell me!”
31They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 32But if we say, ‘Of human origin’ . . . ” (They feared the people, for everyone held that John really was a prophet.)
33So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.”
Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
My main task is not to deny, but to confirm the truth, and i am not suggesting but confirming the fact that It was an early statement and ruling of the Prophet based on ijtihaad after consultation on previous rulings in the Torah, and which he didn't allow to be written down despite requests - and which was abrogated by the ayaat of Allah in Quran, Chapter 24, Verse 2.
The ruling of rajm for married adulterers is an established Hadd punishment from the Sunnah of Rasulullah . Only the verse was abrogated and that is why Rasulullah did not ask it to be written down. Rasulullah carried out rajm for Muslims as well, it wasn't only for the Jews.
Narrated Ibn `Abbas :
`Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." `Umar added, "Surely Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." [Bukhari]
Do not be among those who go astray by rejecting the Hadd punishment of Rajm.
The verse of Surah Noor applies to unmarried men and women only. Please read the verse in context and you will understand it easily. Allah says in the next verse (3), The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. [An-Noor: 3]
If the punishment of flogging was applicable for married people, then why does Allah mention in the next verse that they cannot marry except a fornicator or a polytheist? It is because the previous verse is only for unmarried people.
Do not be among those who carry self-styled ijtihad and reject the established rulings of Sharia, and find faults in the centuries old scholarship of Sahabah, Tabi'een and their followers. People who try to do that are often led astray and become heretic. Stop before it becomes too late. Study under the guidance of legitimate scholars. Simply reading books and searching in internet is not sufficient for a person to be able to understand all the concepts and being able to do his own ijtihad.
Re: What to reply to missing parts/different versions of Quran?
Everytime a verse was revealed the people immediately memorized it. So if it was lost or misplaced, people would know or remember it. The quran was preserved by memorization and incorriptable because it wasn't written but memorized word for word.
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in the Quran is absolutely clear.
doesn't hold water when we know that there is no such Quranic ruling and that the Torah ruling is abrogated by the Quranic ruling.
did not allow people to play about and remain content with commiting kufr and transgression, and then use him as a doormat whenever they wanted to find an excuse to escape the consequences of the laws to which they claimed to adhere.
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