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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn? (OP)


    There are rumors that he is Alexander The Great, his name meaning "The Two Horned One", but they both lived in different time periods. There are also scholars who say he is/was Cyrus The Great. I was wondering, any chance of him being Saladin (Salahuddin)?

    Thank you brothers,
    Allah be with you
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

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    I chased... and found... is anyone really interested?
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    I'm always interested. But not much good at riddles..

    Pray tell.

    But I will have to read again this thread.. been a while...
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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    ok, here's an advanced teaser:

    In search of the Barrier... how does one search for something which one believes no longer exists? See, my conundrum was in searching for a barrier which i believe to have already collapsed - how does one find something which doesn't exist anymore? I followed method, that's how - instead of looking for a barrier - I looked for signs that a barrier may have once been in certain locations, hence how I found that image of the sea shell shaped mountains in Siberia - which could very well have had the barrier placed within its confines, and Allah knows best.


    I could have stopped there, and sat smug in the knowledge that I found something which could be it... but I didn't. Simply because (and bro Ministry of Truth can attest to this) simply because my mind does not rest when it is chasing history...


    ...Alhamdulillah for that, because I found something which has put me in a bit of a conundrum once again. Please take a look at the following:


























    I find it ultimately interesting that the length/height of the barrier from its clearly defined left side matches almost perfectly to the measurement from the seemingly highest to lowest point... what is further of interest to me is the fact that the foot of the barrier is narrower than the top of it, as this also attests to the idea of the barrier being built between two cliffs opened at the top like sea shells...


    ... Allahu Akbar and HE knows best!

    Scimi

    NOTE: for previous posts relating to Gog MAgog and Dhul Qarnayn, please refer to this thread here: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html but I've only shared some things here...
    Last edited by Scimitar; 10-24-2014 at 07:21 PM.
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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?


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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    one more teaser

    [Taken from one of my posts in WUP:]

    In the far north east of the Russian autonomous regions of Siberia - past the Verkhoyansk range and settled into the momsky mountains, we find the following...



    the mountains the wall was built between are actually two separate mountains adjoined at the bottom, and opened at the top - looking exactly like a cleft open sea shell as described in the Quran... I have seen this shell like mountain pass - and it took my breath away.


    I have the high definition pic but I am not willing to share this atm.


    What I will tell you is this:


    It's geographically located at the one location where a barrier would most definitely land lock an entire nation. No other place on earth has this geographical occurance withn mountain ranges as passes are prevalent amongst all mountain ranges. Also this correlates with Al Idrisis infamous world map, the Tabulus Rogeriana - which he was commissioned to make by the Sicilian King Roger - who was in fact - A VIKING... as if that wasn't enough of a clue - however, at this point I am probably confusing some of you... anyway,


    Clue - beyond vekhoyansk - lies the Autonomous regions about which very little is known prior the year 700AD... as if that wasn't enough of a clue, if you saw the the mountains adjoined, hollowed out from the inside like the concave you'd expect from the inside of a sea shell - you'd most likely be convinced.


    Scimi
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Too many things are not what they appear on the surface. And often requires patience and the mind being free from preconceived ideas... maybe not so accurate, at least not fixed in understanding or belief.

    Peace
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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    In Arabic translations of the Old Testament, the word "Dhul-Qarnayn" (Hebrew: Ba`al Haqqərānayim בעל הקרנים) appears once in the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel 8:20:

    [9]أَمَّا الْكَبْشُ الَّذِي رَأَيْتَهُ ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ فَهُوَ مُلُوكُ مَادِي وَفَارِسَ

    Translation: The ram that you saw, the one with the two horns, represents the kings of Media and Persia.


    And there's a lot more than that... Cyrus was actually crowned twice as a King - once as a child, once as an adult... amazing story that one. The Jews know it well, since it was Herodotus who penned it within 70 years of Cyrus' death...

    Herodotus was a Jewish historian who is/was very well respected in historical circles since antiquity to the modern age.

    I must tell you though, that story is possibly the real reason why the account in the surah starts with "they ask thee [O Muhammad], About Dhul Qarnayn, say to them I shall recite to you a remembrance about him" - at that point, the Jews were already looking down at their feet in embarrassment because a story that was NOT recorded in the Old Testament, but was known only amongst the Jews of the time period - was somehow knowledge to Muhammad pbuh? How? How, unless he really was a prophet of God? This really got the Jews thinking... you know anything about the tababyiyah King who placed his subjects in Yathrib 1000 years before Muhammad pbuh was born, so that they could identify the prophet who would be born in Arabia?

    That's right - the Jews were waiting for a prophet to come to them - a saviour, liberator - just like Cyrus was to them... imagine the parallel too - only two men in the world were given the task of propagating Islam to the whole world, one was a king, (Dhul Qarnayn) and the other was a prophet (Muhammad pbuh)... the jews were clever in their question...

    That's what is truly amazing me... and some other nuanced understandings also.

    i'll leave it here for now.

    If you're interested to hear about the story of Cyrus being crowned twice as King -
    http://www.kingmixers.com/CLAS149/Herodotus1b.pdf

    Scimi
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Asalaam O Alaikum....

    Bro Scimi,

    Nice to see your efforts your putting in to this subject, May Allah (swt) help you get knowledge on this subject which can help us as well InshA'Allah.

    My thoughts on your info is, that the End times hadith mention the drinking of water of Sea of Galilee by the Tribes of Gog and Magog are sufficient proof that they have been released and they are drinking it right now, i.e. Lake Tiberias. The water is being drunk by European Jews who have come to the Holy Land to claim it as their own without having any descent from Abraham, Ishaaq or Yaqub (a.s).

    Secondly, I believe that Tawil (Interpretation) of the Story of Dhul Qarnayn is more important for us to understand, even though the search for the personality is also important.

    The Tawil which obviously explains that Dul Qarnayn, one of the 2 'Ages' i.e. Qarn means Age and Qarnayn would mean '2 Ages', which means the 'One of 2 Ages' meaning his story had significance in that Age (Qarn) which was when he actually lived and created the Wall and now the Story of Yajuj and Majuj is important for us in the Second Age (Qarn) when they would be released.

    Since the Water in Lake Tiberias is already drying up and the end of times Ahadith do mention them gathering in and around the Holy Land of Israel, it is very safe to assume that we have entered the Second of the Two Qarnayn, whether Cyrus the Great or no, it doesn't make much difference, because the enemy has been identified and we need to protect ourselves and explain their New World Order (Gog and Magog World Order as opposed to the Just World Order of Dhul Qarnayn) to the world that this Unjust World Order of theirs is something which Quran already predicted 1400 years ago and which should open the eyes of the Muslim and Non Muslim World, how brilliant this Quran is which explains everything (An Nahl 16:89):

    (41:53) We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it (Quran) is the truth.


    It is this Truth as it even explains the World Order being run from Washington and the Israel of tomorrow. This Quran explains the Fasad which has spread like fire around the world today.

    Your search is very important, no doubt, may be this way you may find some very important clues which can help us all understand the subject even better, but I believe that giving importance to the 2nd Qarn is even more crucial.

    Please keep sharing and InshA'Allah I'll share what I come across, I'll start doing a research of my own and share with you guys since you bumped this topic back on the board.
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    epic stuff from bro scimi awesome job though unfortunately I left wup in 09 when I discovered it was a shiah site or the beliefs are influenced by it
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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Please Make Dua' For Samiun..

    “Whoever records a biography of a believer, it is as though he has brought him or her back to life.” - Imam Al-Sakhawi

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Jazak Allah Khair for the post brother Syed, I also sponsor the same as you in this regard.

    The words "Dhul Qarnayn" - are really amazing, in fact, from my study into the relationship of the name Dhul Qarnayn to the personality of Cyrus - I find that however we apply the term - it fits - that's amazing.

    Now, for me - this study has been spanning years on and off. Initially I found someone on the net who (non Muslim) claimed that Dhul Qarnayn must be satan because he has 2 horns, further they assumed the Quran was a book of fairytales, due to the apocalyptic scenario of G&M breaking out of the barrier and ruining everything in the world - they assumed this would happen in a very short period of time - being apocalyptic in nature - BUT - the Quran is a very nuanced book, and he was reading it to confirm his own bias:

    He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. Quran 3:7

    We've seen the islamophobes often play this card - and often they shy away in embarrassment when the context is defined.

    From the Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings 11:4

    And if a king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve"
    (Zephaniah 3:9).

    Although Cyrus was reputedly a Persian, he was mixed race - meaning, he was both a Persian and a Mede - and in this coupling it is more than possible that his lineage could have extended to the House of David (peace be upon him) and Allah knows best the truth of this.


    The whole verse is seemingly describing none other than Cyrus.


    1) he was a great King [And if a king shall arise from among the House of David,]


    2) he studied the Torah under the guidance of the Jews after freeing them from captivity in Babel, and returning them to Jerusalem [studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah,]


    3) Cyrus had a great army and fought in the way of righteousness [and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars]


    4) thus he was given the title of Messiah [this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one]


    5) he required that all the Jews who were so inclined - to go to jerusalem and help to rebuld the temple (of Solomon AS) and those that were unable to go, for them to send riches in the aid of the rebuilding as part of their worship [If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain]


    6) Though it is not in the historical record (due to the latter kingdom not being material but spiritual in the quest to spread monotheism [remember, history only records material empires]) we find that it would be more than possible for Cyrus to promote Monotheism to those he had conquered once he had established the rebuilding of the temple in jerusalem, and henceforth embarked on his new found zeal (after getting the education from the Jews regarding Monotheism) to spread monotheism to the furthest west and east of the land. [and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve]


    Henceforth, we find the following understanding of the word Messiah from the record:


    al-Masīḥ (proper name, pronounced [mæˈsiːħ]) is the Arabic word for messiah. In modern Arabic, it is used as one of the many titles of Jesus pbuh. Masīḥ is used by Arab Christians as well as Muslims, and is written as Yasūʿ al-Masih (يسوع المسيح ) by Arab Christians or ʿĪsā al-Masīḥ (عيسى المسيح) by Muslims.

    The word al-Masīḥ literally means "the anointed", "the traveller", or the "one who cures by caressing".


    references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#cite_note-13 and Badawi, Elsaid; Haleem, Muhammad Abdel (2008). Arabic-English Dictionary of Qu'ranic Usage. Koninklijke Brill. p. 881.


    So when the Quraish asked the Jews of Yathrib on how to test the Prophet Muhammad regarding his prophethood, one of the questions the Jews gave to the Quraish to test Muhammad pbuh with was "Tell us of"the traveller" who travelled the worlds West and East"


    Seems the case for Cyrus being Dhul Qarnayn is almost set in stone, And Allah knows best.


    EDIT: to put this in perspective - read the following,


    Cyrus the Great figures in the Hebrew Bible as the patron and deliverer of the Jews. He is mentioned 23 times by name and alluded to several times more. From these statements it appears that Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, was the monarch under whom the Babylonian captivity ended, for according to the Bible, in the first year of his reign he was prompted by God to make a decree that the Temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and that such Jews as cared to might return to their land for this purpose. Moreover, he showed his interest in the project by sending back with them the sacred vessels which had been taken from the First Temple and a considerable sum of money with which to buy building materials.


    Cyrus the Great is unconditionally praised in the Jewish sources. It is likely that, after the Persian conquest of Babylon, Cyrus had commenced his relationship with the Jewish leaders in exile, and that he later was considered as a messiah sent by God.


    The Hebrew Bible states that Cyrus issued the decree of liberation to the Jews. Cyrus's edict for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem marked a great epoch in the history of the Jewish people. The babylonian Clay Cylinder - also attests the same, barring a few details - namely the mentioning of Bel and Nabu, and Marduk - whom were Gods, which he venerated before his conversion to the Islam of the time - todays Judaism is rather alien from that version.


    Speculation abounds to the reasoning for Cyrus' release of the Jews from Babylon. One argument being that Cyrus was a follower of Zoroaster, the monotheistic prophet: Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role in Persia throughout its history until the Islamic conquest. As such, he would feel a kindred spirit with the monotheistic Jews. Who then perfected for Cyrus, his belief in Monotheism. And we find in Ezra1:1-8, indicates "the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue this proclamation".


    The Works of Flavius Josephus ,Translated by William Whiston


    HOW CYRUS, KING OF THE PERSIANS, DELIVERED THE JEWS OUT OF BABYLON AND SUFFERED THEM TO RETURN TO THEIR OWN COUNTRY AND TO BUILD THEIR TEMPLE, FOR WHICH WORK HE GAVE THEM MONEY.


    1. In the first year of the reign of Cyrus which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity. And these things God did afford them; for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia: "Thus saith Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty hath appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship; for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea.".


    This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his prophecies; for this prophet said that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision: "My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be king over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple."

    This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished.


    Meaning, that a prophecy was fulfilled and Cyrus was the vessel by which the prophecy was fulfilled.


    "FOR HE STIRRED UP THE MIND OF CYRUS" - reads very similar to "We (Allah) said (by inspiration)" - Al Kahf, ayah 86 excerpt from tafsir.


    And Allah knows best, the truth of every thing. Ameen.


    Scimi
    Last edited by Scimitar; 11-07-2014 at 07:38 PM.
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  14. #30
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samiun View Post
    epic stuff from bro scimi awesome job though unfortunately I left wup in 09 when I discovered it was a shiah site or the beliefs are influenced by it
    wow you was there in '09??? that's when the forum must have been buzzing with members - nowadays it's a ghost town

    For the record guys, I am Sunni

    Scimi
    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?


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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Yea it was but I find it depressing at the time because I was into their series and I did not really understand the end of times based on their intepretation and went paranoid lol.

    What I meant by shiah they claimed in one of their videos that one of the sahabahs was poisoned when I discovered it was a belief from the shiah and the madinah ulama actually spoke about it circa 10' if I recalled.
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    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Please Make Dua' For Samiun..

    “Whoever records a biography of a believer, it is as though he has brought him or her back to life.” - Imam Al-Sakhawi

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Yeah, well, far as I understand it, Achernahr started the series with Abdullah Hashem and Noreagaaa, Abdullah Hashem is shia, and he's gone off into the esoteric side - well known.

    Personally, I thought the series was fresh and good for it's time - it wasn't meant to simply appeal to Muslims, the idea was to promote an Islamic view of the times we live in - and in that sense - they achieved what they set out to do... the forum attracted not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindu's etc etc and even a few Jews - but as time went on, and the original three founders of WUP went their separate ways - the forum started lose its momentum. Bushwackk arrived back in 2011 and things went crazy until he left...now, I find that not many are on the truth movement - bushwackk closed his channel. He has an amazing series called Muhammad pbuh in the bible... worth checking out if you can find it.

    Other than that - it's been hit and miss. As you may be aware, I closed my YT channel down earlier this year, due to nature of the content in my videos - I found that people were taking a very anti-Saud stance in the comments, and I found an hadeeth in Bukhari book 88 which forced me to reconsider how I present information because the way people who follow whimsical thought processes interpret the info - can be a trial in itself.

    Well, I have a new channel now, but no vids and its kinda just sitting there doing nothing atm. Nothing that is, until I start to release some videos on it once again - in sha Allah.

    Scimi
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    U r Rite
    1 | Likes Scimitar liked this post

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Assalaam alaikum sister marla. Welcome to the forum and this topic.. please feel free to share your viewd with us.

    Scimi
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Salaams Scimitar,

    Very interesting points you are making. I can wrap my head around it. Just brings me to ask if there is any mention of any name resembling Iskandar in the Quran? Is he only mentioned as Dhul Qarnain?

    Peace
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    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    No Iskandar in the Quran, remember, Iskandar is the Turkish version for the name Alexander... infact, in Turkey you can get a kebab called Iskandar Kebab because they put a dollop of yoghurt on top no iron, no copper just yoghurt

    Some people think that Iskandar sound similar to Dhul Qarnayn, but the philology of the term Iskandar is dierctly related to the name Alexander, and not the term Dhul Qarnayn, which is a metaphorical naming of a great King whom I am identifying as Cyrus Of Persia. The same who free'd the Jews from Babylonian captivity.

    The connections I have made so far, I haven't found to be explained away the way I understand them. I've taken the critical approach of trying to debunk my theory because in all honesty - I didn't want it to be Dhul Qarnayn... my bias wanted it to be the man who helped Ibraheem AS at the ber sheba wells - however that story has some of the weakest logic to it I have found and so I cannot place any providence in a theory which alludes that the companion of Dhul Qarnayn was Khidr AS when clearly, Khidr is mentioned in the very same Surah but in relation to Musa AS, and Ibraheem AS doesn't even get a mention in the Surah together with Khidr AS.

    Further, the Quran states the following: And We did not grant to any man before you eternity [on earth]; so if you die - would they be eternal? - 21:34

    This is clear evidence that no man is immortal in their human body, and further - there is absolutely no contextual proof that Khidr AS lived before or beyond the time of Musa AS.

    Hence, any idea that Khidr AS was a companion of Dhul Qarnayn do not follow any logic in which sticks in my opinion. And therefore, I neglect these tales as mere fanciful cravings of story tellers to dramatize and confuse events which are really simple to understand.

    Once the evidence for Cyrus started to stack up, I found myself in-between a rock and a hard place - I didn't want it to be Cyrus, but little by little - the pieces started to appear and fit together - and now I am convinced that Cyrus was the person alluded to as the Dhul Qarnayn from Al Kahf 83-99. I remember discussing this bro M.OT from WUP, and he also said exactly the same, that he would have preferred it to be the man who helped in Ibraheem AS but the contextualised story makes no sense and follows no logic in light of Quran.

    Cyrus, is the best option and Allah knows best.

    Thank you for the interest bro Greenhill, keep the posts flowing brother

    Scimi
    Last edited by Scimitar; 11-07-2014 at 07:33 PM.
    Who is Dhul Qarnayn?


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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Asalaam O Alaikum bro Scimi

    Thanks for sharing the info. A lot of historical evidence during the time of return of the Jews to the Holy Land by the Persian King named Cyrus and his rule over many parts of the land, very much resembles the Dhul Qarnayn of the Quran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    From the Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings 11:4

    And if a king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together,this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve"(Zephaniah 3:9).

    Although Cyrus was reputedly a Persian, he was mixed race - meaning, he was both a Persian and a Mede - and in this coupling it is more than possible that his lineage could have extended to the House of David (peace be upon him) and Allah knows best the truth of this.
    This however would be doubtful to say because the above Verses that you have shared is very much resembling the prediction coming and rule of Masih Isa ibn Maryam (a.s) in and around the Holy Land, after he has defeated Dajjal, the False Masih.

    (3:45) Lo! The angels said "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tidings, through a word from Him, (of a son) who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and the life to come, and (shall be) of those who are drawn near unto God. (Muhammad Asad)

    Asad comments on the Word Christ: "whose name shall be The Anointed (Al Masih)". The designation Al Masih is the Arabicized form of Aramaic Meshiha which in turn is derived from the Hebrew Mahsiah, 'The Anointed' - a term frequently applied in the Bible to Hebrew Kings, whose accession to power would be consecrated by a touch with holy oil taken from the Temple. This anointment appears to have been so important a rite among the Hebrews that the term 'The Anointed' became in the course of time more or less synonymous with 'King'. Its application to Jesus may have been due to the widespread conviction among his contemporaries (references to which are found in several places in the Synoptic Gospels) that he was descended in direct - and obviously legitimate line from the Royal House of David. (It is to be noted that this could not have been related to his mother's side because Mary belonged to the priestly class descending from Aaron, thus to the Tribe of Levi, one of the Sons of Jacob, while David descended from the Tribe of Judah) Whatever may have been the historical circumstances, it is evident that the honorific "The Anointed" was applied to Jesus in his own lifetime. In the Greek version of the Gospels - which is undoubtedly based on a now lost Aramaic original - this designation is correctly translated as Christos ( a noun derived from Greek Verb Chriein "To Anoint"): and since it is in this form - "The Christ" - that the designation Al-Masih has achieved in all Western Languages.

    So the Prophecy which you've shared above I believe applies very much to Al Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (a.s) instead of Cyrus, who would rule the world from Jerusalem, once he defeats and kills the False Masih Dajjal after his Second Arrival. The "Annointed One" or 'The King' or Al Masih, very much applies to Jesus (a.s) and no one else as he was foretold in the Bible that he would bring the Glory Days of Children of Israel back to them, The Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) as Solomon was the 1st one to build the Temple. He i.e. Jesus (a.s) would have to built the Temple or Masjid of David (a.s) as we know it because Zionist Israel will have to destroy Masjid Al Aqsa and built what they consider the correct historic Temple of Solomon. Dr Israar Ahmed writes in his Book 'Lessons From History':

    During the years 1020 B.C. and 922 B.C., Israel reached the zenith of its territorial size and political power, enjoying an era of peace and affluence.
    Culture, trade, and industry flourished, especially during the reign of Prophet Suleman (AS). The famous Temple was also built for the first time in Jerusalem.


    Since Zionism, the Political Ideology which is poised to build a House for Jews in the Holy Land, either by hook or crook at the expense of millions of innocent lives even if they have to take, is deceiving them in to believing that their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s) are coming back. Rather this is the deception of Al Masih Al Dajjal. So the Real Messiah or Anointed One will have to come back and kill The False Messiah, who is about to become their leader, thus fulfilling all those Prophecies of his rule in the Torah.

    Yes one thing, I would agree about Cyrus, the Great, he wasn't a polytheist, I don't know if he did study Torah under the Rabbis and became a True Follower of Bible i.e. Muslim.

    About your saying Cyrus, being from the House of David, the Prophet's who did foretell about this King's arrival and subsequent release of Children of Israel from Babylon, would've also mentioned him being from the House of David, but they never did this, even though they did mention him being a type of a saviour king. For example, Book of Daniel, about 2 Horns, King of Media and Persia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    Speculation abounds to the reasoning for Cyrus' release of the Jews from Babylon. One argument being that Cyrus was a follower of Zoroaster, the monotheistic prophet: Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role in Persia throughout its history until the Islamic conquest. As such, he would feel a kindred spirit with the monotheistic Jews. Who then perfected for Cyrus, his belief in Monotheism. And we find in Ezra1:1-8, indicates "the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue this proclamation".
    Completely Agree, I rather have a firm belief that he was a follower of Zoroaster or Zaratushtra , who may be a Prophet of Allah (swt) sent to the Persians, as Muhammad (Saw) said "Allah (swt) sent 120,000 Prophets throughout history of mankind.". He could've been one of them, and his teachings were monotheistic.


    One thing very important to mention is that, the Children of Israel have a belief that their Future King or Al Maseeh or Anointed One whom they are waiting to appear and bring back their Glory Days of Solomon (a.s), has to rule over them from the Throne of David (a.s), the Father of Solomon. So even though Cyrus, the Great appeared as a saviour who brought them back to their Holy Land, they never chose him to rule over their Land of Judea, from the throne of David (a.s), infact Cyrus appointed Sheshbazzar, probably the son of King Jehoiachin ( descended from Royal House of David, overthrown by Nebuchadnezzar), to rule Judah as a semi-independent state. Sheshbazzar led the first group of Jews back to their homeland, followed by another expedition led by Zerubbabel in 522 B.C.. However, because of a number of reasons, the rebuilding of the Temple could not progress beyond the laying down of its foundations. Eighteen years latter, Zerubbabel became Judah’s governor who, supported by Prophets Haggai and Zechariah and the high-priest Jeshua, completed the second Temple in 515 B.C. (Lesson From the History by Dr. Israar Ahmed)

    This effort of completion of construction of the Temple continued after Cyrus had passed, it was completed during the time of Darius, the Great, another Persian King. So the Temple wasn't even built during his era i suppose.

    Allah (swt) knows best.
    Last edited by syed_z; 11-07-2014 at 09:35 PM.
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Bro Scimi,

    I do have to share another thing about Dhul Qarnayn (The one of 2 Ages, as Qarn also means An Age or Epoch), its related to Taweel (Interpretation) and not Tafsir (Explanation). Interpretation of the Second of the 2 Ages i.e. after the release of Gog and Magog and their Unjust World Order (Fasad) on earth as opposed to the Just Order of Dhul Qarnayn on earth in the past Age (Qarn).

    In addition to my previous post, majority of the Quran Commentators believe Cyrus, The Great to be the Dhul Qarnayn due to Jews posing question to Prophet Muhammad (saw) would only do it if it was something related to their history, which obviously tells us that he helped them move back to the Holy Land. Not to forget that Cyrus was also a monotheist.

    However the only disagreement I have with your info is, the part of him being from the House of David (a.s) and his rebuilding the Temple.

    Also, would like to share something about the event of Musa (a.s) and Khdir (a.s) as I have understood something very imp about those Ayaats of Surah Kahf, should we continue that here as well?

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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    one more teaser
    It's geographically located at the one location where a barrier would most definitely land lock an entire nation. No other place on earth has this geographical occurance withn mountain ranges as passes are prevalent amongst all mountain ranges. Also this correlates with Al Idrisis infamous world map, the Tabulus Rogeriana - which he was commissioned to make by the Sicilian King Roger - who was in fact - A VIKING... as if that wasn't enough of a clue - however, at this point I am probably confusing some of you... anyway,


    Clue - beyond vekhoyansk - lies the Autonomous regions about which very little is known prior the year 700AD... as if that wasn't enough of a clue, if you saw the the mountains adjoined, hollowed out from the inside like the concave you'd expect from the inside of a sea shell - you'd most likely be convinced.


    Scimi

    I am really curious about the viking. They traveled far and wide around modern day Russia/Estonia/Lithuania... Gog and Magog is usually thought of as the slavs?
    The viking sagas are not too great until around the year 1000. Probably the oral sagas are much older but the written ones are around the year 1000.

    Why not just tell it all? I am curious.
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    Re: Who is Dhul Qarnayn?

    Mashallah, this is a very hot topic. But I think all of you have got it wrong. And the reason is because even though you could dispute the historic facts, there is nothing in the Qur'an that gives you any kind of historic explanation of Dhul Qarnayn. We may find what is most likely the wall of Dhul Qarnayn, but that does not mean it is THE wall.

    Firstly, the wall is explained in the Ahadith as to how it will be broken through:

    It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
    "Gog and Magog people dig every day until, when they can almost see the rays of the sun, the one in charge of them says: "Go back and we will dig it tomorrow." Then Allah puts it back, stronger than it was before. (This will continue) until, when their time has come, and Allah wants to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see the rays of the sun, then the one who is in charge of them will say: "Go back, and we will dig it tomorrow if Allah wills.' So they will say: "If Allah wills." Then they will come back to it and it will be as they left it. So they will dig and will come out to the people, and they will drink all the water. The people will fortify themselves against them in their fortresses. They will shoot their arrows towards the sky and they will come back with blood on them, and they will say: "We have defeated the people of earth and dominated the people of heaven." Then Allah will send a worm in the napes of their necks and will kill them thereby.'" The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "By the One in Whose Hand is my soul, the beasts of the earth will grow fat on their flesh."



    حَدَّثَنَا أَزْهَرُ بْنُ مَرْوَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو رَافِعٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ إِنَّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ يَحْفِرُونَ كُلَّ يَوْمٍ حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَنَحْفِرُهُ غَدًا ‏.‏ فَيُعِيدُهُ اللَّهُ أَشَدَّ مَا كَانَ حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَتْ مُدَّتُهُمْ وَأَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَبْعَثَهُمْ عَلَى النَّاسِ حَفَرُوا حَتَّى إِذَا كَادُوا يَرَوْنَ شُعَاعَ الشَّمْسِ قَالَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِمُ ارْجِعُوا فَسَتَحْفِرُونَهُ غَدًا إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى وَاسْتَثْنَوْا فَيَعُودُونَ إِلَيْهِ وَهُوَ كَهَيْئَتِهِ حِينَ تَرَكُوهُ فَيَحْفِرُونَهُ وَيَخْرُجُونَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَيَنْشِفُونَ الْمَاءَ وَيَتَحَصَّنُ النَّاسُ مِنْهُمْ فِي حُصُونِهِمْ فَيَرْمُونَ بِسِهَامِهِمْ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَتَرْجِعُ عَلَيْهَا الدَّمُ الَّذِي اجْفَظَّ فَيَقُولُونَ قَهَرْنَا أَهْلَ الأَرْضِ وَعَلَوْنَا أَهْلَ السَّمَاءِ فَيَبْعَثُ اللَّهُ نَغَفًا فِي أَقْفَائِهِمْ فَيَقْتُلُهُمْ بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ إِنَّ دَوَابَّ الأَرْضِ لَتَسْمَنُ وَتَشْكَرُ شَكَرًا مِنْ لُحُومِهِمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
    Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

    Reference : Sunan Ibn Majah 4080
    In-book reference : Book 36, Hadith 155
    English translation : Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4080

    Link: http://www.sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/155


    This Hadith is quite prophetic, now as to how to take this prophecy, the Holy Prophet (saw) said:

    Narrated Zainab bint Jahsh:

    The Prophet (ﷺ) got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Yes, if evil increased."




    حَدَّثَنَا مَالِكُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ الزُّهْرِيَّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ بِنْتِ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ أُمِّ حَبِيبَةَ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ ابْنَةِ جَحْشٍ ـ رضى الله عنهن ـ أَنَّهَا قَالَتِ اسْتَيْقَظَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنَ النَّوْمِ مُحْمَرًّا وَجْهُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ، وَيْلٌ لِلْعَرَبِ مِنْ شَرٍّ قَدِ اقْتَرَبَ، فُتِحَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ رَدْمِ يَاجُوجَ وَمَاجُوجَ مِثْلُ هَذِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَعَقَدَ سُفْيَانُ تِسْعِينَ أَوْ مِائَةً‏.‏ قِيلَ أَنَهْلِكُ وَفِينَا الصَّالِحُونَ قَالَ ‏"‏ نَعَمْ، إِذَا كَثُرَ الْخَبَثُ ‏"‏‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7059
    In-book reference : Book 92, Hadith 11
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 88, Hadith 181
    (deprecated numbering scheme)


    Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/11


    This opening of the wall which holds back Gog and Magog is a spiritual matter, and is not meant to be taken literally. Now if you truly understand the way dreams work, then you'd realize by reading this Hadith slowly and carefully, with some proper thought, that the Holy Prophet (saw) said this after he woke from his sleep. Dreams are spiritual in meaning. They are not literal. So then how can you take these verses in the Qur'an so simplistically?

    Furthermore, the Holy Prophet (saw) went on his Mi'raj, during which he was shown the sign of the Dajjal:

    Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

    The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "On the night of my Ascent to the Heaven, I saw Moses who was a tall brown curlyhaired man as if he was one of the men of Shan'awa tribe, and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair. I also saw Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire and Ad-Dajjal amongst the signs which Allah showed me." (The Prophet then recited the Holy Verse): "So be not you in doubt of meeting him' when you met Moses during the night of Mi'raj over the heavens" (32.23) Narrated Anas and Abu Bakra: "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The angels will guard Medina from Ad-Dajjal (who will not be able to enter the city of Medina).




    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا غُنْدَرٌ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ،‏.‏ وَقَالَ لِي خَلِيفَةُ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَمِّ، نَبِيِّكُمْ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ رَأَيْتُ لَيْلَةَ أُسْرِيَ بِي مُوسَى رَجُلاً آدَمَ طُوَالاً جَعْدًا، كَأَنَّهُ مِنْ رِجَالِ شَنُوءَةَ، وَرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلاً مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ، سَبْطَ الرَّأْسِ، وَرَأَيْتُ مَالِكًا خَازِنَ النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَالدَّجَّالَ فِي آيَاتٍ أَرَاهُنَّ اللَّهُ إِيَّاهُ، فَلاَ تَكُنْ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِنْ لِقَائِهِ‏.‏ قَالَ أَنَسٌ وَأَبُو بَكْرَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ تَحْرُسُ الْمَلاَئِكَةُ الْمَدِينَةَ مِنَ الدَّجَّالِ ‏"‏‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
    In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 54, Hadith 462
    (deprecated numbering scheme)


    Link: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/59/50


    So what do you say when this prophecy itself is also another spiritual sign? Does it mean Dajjal is on some island in this world? No. Here is why:

    It was narrated from Jabir, that the Prophet(s.a.w) said:
    "There is no soul born upon the earth – meaning today – upon whom will come one hundred years." (Sahih)



    حَدَّثَنَا هَنَّادٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ جَابِرٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَا عَلَى الأَرْضِ نَفْسٌ مَنْفُوسَةٌ - يَعْنِي الْيَوْمَ تَأْتِي عَلَيْهَا مِائَةُ سَنَةٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَفِي الْبَابِ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ وَأَبِي سَعِيدٍ وَبُرَيْدَةَ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏.‏
    Reference : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2250
    In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 93
    English translation : Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2250


    Link: http://www.sunnah.com/tirmidhi/33/93

    This is why Khidr (as) is not alive, and the Dajjal is not alive, they have not been alive for at least the last 1300 years waiting for the end of times.

    And as to Gog and Magog, the surprise with this is that the Bible has mentioned who Gog and Magog are. It doesn't take much to read and realize that it makes sense. Ezekiel 39:1 says that Gog is the prince of Meshek and Tubal (Moscow and Tobolsk). This is referring to Russia, an insignificant part of the world where no one could have expected that over 2000 something years later, they would rise up as a world power, with a capability to destroy vast portions of the Earth. And it mentions Magog who lives in the coastlands. Who has coastlands in greater number than the United Kingdom, which comprises of many isles and coastlands? These people spread to Australia, created Canada and America, and colonized huge numbers of people. In fact, the European nations with coastlines all shipped out to sea and colonized lands all over the world.

    There are very down to earth explanations of all of these matters. No need to complicate things either. If any of you want to disapprove of my using the Bible, fine, but you cannot argue with the clear statements of the Ahadith. I should just add that verse 21:96 of the Holy Qur'an, which mentions Gog and Magog going over every Hadab implies that they would reach every height. But if Muslims try to take shelter on Tur, then how is that safe against Gog and Magog who have gone on "EVERY" Hadab (height)? I've really thought about this, and realized that it can't mean anything else except that Hadab has some deeper meaning to it.

    But the Ahadith make it clear they attain every height in the world, but they cannot reach the full extent of Heaven. They will think they rule Heaven, but they don't. The most grounded way to understand this is that they have taken rockets and actually shot their rockets to space and reached there. An ancient person could only think of shooting an arrow as something to liken to a rocket. And besides, who can shoot an arrow to the sky? Clearly the meaning is meant to be taken as something else.

    Read the story of Pharaoh in the Holy Qur'an:
    40:36 Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means-
    40:37 "The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the Path; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition (for him).

    This is related to the doing of Gog and Magog in the Ahadith. They will seek to turn God out of Heaven but will find themselves smitten, by having boils grow in their necks, dying off by a widespread disease. Whatever happens, if evil becomes widespread enough, even good people will be dragged in that punishment as well, though their reward will be given by Allah.

    To really understand this subject matter, delve into the words of Allah and the sayings recorded from the Messenger of Allah (saw), otherwise if people start throwing theories around then nothing useful will be discussed. I said all this so that all of you can give a more grounded discussion, In sha' Allah.

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