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  1. #1
    Scimitar's Avatar
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

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    Hot out of the oven, this one is cooking up a storm in sh'Allah! So let's get straight into it!!!

    NOTE: If you are even remotely peckish, grab yourself some savouries and juice, and come back here!!!


    Is Islam Compatible With Evolution?

    Biological evolution is a topic that is always on the table when it comes to any reasoned discussion about Islam at a university level. With that in mind, the Islamic Society (ISOC) at the London School of Economics (LSE) invited iERA to deliver a lecture about the compatibility of Islam and evolution. This was part of the LSE Discover Islam Week 2018.

    iERA Outreach Specialist Subboor Ahmad spoke to a 50+ audience of mainly Muslim ISOC members from various disciplines across the university. His aim was to set the correct scene for them so that they will be prepared to answer questions from other students or answer the questions they themselves are asking on this important topic.

    Subboor spoke at length about the misrepresentation of evolutionary biology by popular Atheist figures. He also spoke about the philosophy of science and biology. His engaging lecture also discussed epistemology, the theory of knowledge as well as important scientific issues that evolutionary biology is based upon.

    The ‘aha’ moment came when the ISOC members understood that the science is not absolute and therefore not a problem for the Islamic discourse. They also walked away understanding that nothing in evolutionary biology disproves God.





    Enjoy dismantling evolution responsibly, always bin rubbish theories... and keep your country tidy
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?


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    Zafran's Avatar
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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    salaam

    I'm going to watch later Insha Allah.

    peace
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

  4. #3
    czgibson's Avatar
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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    [QUOTE=Scimitar;2988090]NOTE: If you are even remotely peckish, grab yourself some savouries and juice, and come back here!!![/SIZE]

    Good plan.

    Subboor spoke at length about the misrepresentation of evolutionary biology by popular Atheist figures. He also spoke about the philosophy of science and biology.
    This guy definitely represents progress. He's the most intelligent Muslim speaker I've heard for quite a while. At least he has the sense to announce to everybody that evolution is a valid scientific theory. He's still trying to get to grips with ideas that are new to him, and in many respects approaches things from the wrong angle. For example, quoting a paragraph in a science textbook that is clearly speculative in tone and then concluding that the rest of the book must be unscientific as well.

    When he's more conversant with the ideas he's discussing, and able to avoid obvious blunders like that, he might make a decent debater.

    His engaging lecture also discussed epistemology, the theory of knowledge as well as important scientific issues that evolutionary biology is based upon.
    There's that word again, epistemology. Second time I've seen it on the forum this week.

    The ‘aha’ moment came when the ISOC members understood that the science is not absolute and therefore not a problem for the Islamic discourse.
    "Science is not absolute" is a truth that more people need to understand.

    They also walked away understanding that nothing in evolutionary biology disproves God.
    Yes, nothing can ever disprove God. Along with all the other ideas that are impossible to disprove.

    I remember Ansar Al-Adl, esteemed member of this forum, posting a thread many years ago about how nothing in the field of evolutionary biology was in conflict with the beliefs of Islam, and it's good to hear a distant echo of that idea here.

    Enjoy dismantling evolution responsibly, always bin rubbish theories... and keep your country tidy
    If evolution turns out to be a rubbish theory, we definitely should bin it!

    Until then...

    Peace
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    MazharShafiq's Avatar
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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    slamic views on evolution are diverse, ranging from theistic evolution to Old Earth creationism.[1] Most Muslims around the world believe "humans and other living things have evolved over time," yet some others believe they have "always existed in present form."[2] Muslim thinkers have proposed and accepted elements of the theory of evolution, some holding the belief of the supremacy of God in the process. One modern scholar, Usaama al-Azami, suggested that both narratives of creation and of evolution, as understood by modern science, may be believed by modern Muslims as addressing two different kinds of truth, the revealed and the empirical.[3]
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    Misbah-Abd's Avatar
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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    As a Muslim, the question should be phrased, "Is evolution compatible with Islam?" Since Islam is the truth, we check theories and ideologies with that proper lens and then we won't be misguided.
    Last edited by Misbah-Abd; 03-27-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    "When a person sees the road as too long, he weakens in his walk." - Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah

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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by MazharShafiq View Post
    slamic views on evolution are diverse, ranging from theistic evolution to Old Earth creationism.[1] Most Muslims around the world believe "humans and other living things have evolved over time," yet some others believe they have "always existed in present form."[2] Muslim thinkers have proposed and accepted elements of the theory of evolution, some holding the belief of the supremacy of God in the process. One modern scholar, Usaama al-Azami, suggested that both narratives of creation and of evolution, as understood by modern science, may be believed by modern Muslims as addressing two different kinds of truth, the revealed and the empirical.[3]
    What kind of evolution are they talking about exactly? Are we talking about a change in height, weight, intellect, etc.? Or are we talking about:



    As far as I know, according to Islam, the first person (Adam AS) was in human form and not only that, but he was granted knowledge which surpassed even the angels if I'm not mistaken. So, with just that basic info, to believe we evolved from a long chain of different species is not compatible with Islam, in my opinion of course.
    Last edited by keiv; 03-27-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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    cinnamonrolls1's Avatar
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    re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Well what kinda evolution? Mutations? Darwins evolution theory? Adaptations? So many kinds subhanallah
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    Well what kinda evolution? Mutations? Darwins evolution theory? Adaptations? So many kinds subhanallah
    When people talk about evolution, most of the time they mean Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection. Mutation and adaptation are key concepts within this theory.

    Peace
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,



    When people talk about evolution, most of the time they mean Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection. Mutation and adaptation are key concepts within this theory.

    Peace
    Ahh, thank you!
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    Ahh, thank you!
    http://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52189

    The Theory of Evolution - IslamQA
    Q. Can you kindly explain in detail what our view is as Muslims, concerning the theory of Evolution please. We are interested in showing our non-Muslims accomplices evidences from the Quran and from science itself that refutes evolution. A. The following is a beautiful article on this topic which has been written by...
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Allah (swt) knows best

  14. #11
    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Q. Can you kindly explain in detail what our view is as Muslims, concerning the theory of Evolution please. We are interested in showing our non-Muslims accomplices evidences from the Quran and from science itself that refutes evolution. A. The following is a beautiful article on this topic which has been written by...
    The questioner doesn't appear to be interested in learning anything about evolution itself, as the question specifically asks straight away for evidence that refutes it.

    It really doesn't have to be this way. Plenty of Muslims believe there is no conflict between evolution and Islamic belief, including respected members of this forum. No scientific theory can ever disprove the existence of God.

    In any case, nobody will learn very much about evolution from that particular article. The author clearly has little familiarity with the subject and his text has simple factual errors in many places.

    Peace
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  15. #12
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

    When people talk about evolution, most of the time they mean Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection. Mutation and adaptation are key concepts within this theory.
    And here is the problem; natural selection and mutation are used as an explanation to exclude the need for God.

    I believe the human skeleton with all the ligaments, muscles and tendons is the most complex machine on the planet today. This is a link to an eighteenth century Automaton called the ‘Writer’. It is a masterpiece of engineering using 6000 parts, mostly cams and levers to mechanise movement. I find it fascinating watching the short video show how complex the movement of the human body is, and we take it for granted.

    I see no way our bodies could come into being without God.



    In the spirit of searching for God
    Eric
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  16. #13
    Zafran's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Yes, nothing can ever disprove God. Along with all the other ideas that are impossible to disprove.
    what do you mean by this? do you mean anything in the scientific field can not prove/disprove God?

    Overall its a good talk. we need more Muslims who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to evolution and not rely on Harun Yahya and co. More Muslims need to be familiar with the philosophy of science for a more serious understanding of what the scientific method deals with and what it is not equipped to answer.
    Last edited by Zafran; 03-27-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

  17. #14
    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    And here is the problem; natural selection and mutation are used as an explanation to exclude the need for God.
    By some people, yes. But why should that affect your own personal relationship with God?

    It's true that there are individuals whose understanding of evolution has led them to become atheists. But there are also plenty of people who see no conflict between evolution and theism. The theory of evolution itself has nothing definite to say on the subject of God.

    I believe the human skeleton with all the ligaments, muscles and tendons is the most complex machine on the planet today.
    Don't forget about the brain, which makes the mechanical parts of our anatomy like the skeleton and muscles look simple. The human brain is the most complex object in the known universe.

    what do you mean by this? do you mean anything in the scientific field can not prove/disprove God?
    Use of the scientific method cannot prove or disprove anything without data.

    Overall its a good talk. we need more Muslims who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to evolution and not rely on Harun Yahya and co.
    You are right. It's astonishing that someone as ignorant as Harun Yahya could gain such a following. Just an obvious charlatan, and yet so many have fallen for it. I'm really glad that the discourse around here seems to have been elevated on this topic a little more recently.

    More Muslims need to be familiar with the philosophy of science for a more serious understanding of what the scientific method deals with and what it is not equipped to answer.
    I agree with this very much. The same goes for you, me and everybody. Thank you for taking the time to think about it.

    Peace
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    azc's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    @czgibson :

    his text has simple factual errors in many places
    Please elaborate....

    Thanks

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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    For all we know God could very well have ordained evolution to happen. Much like God (in my opinion) ordained genetic mutations etc.
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    Scimitar's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Does science lead to atheism ???

    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?


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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings, Scimitar,

    I often enjoy your posts too.
    As your brother in Humanity, I wholly agree with a lot of what you write on this forum. Theologically, we may differ on some points. But otherwise, we see eye to eye on many things!

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Ever heard of agnostic atheism? It's the category that most atheists belong to, and I'm among their number. I certainly don't say "There is definitely no God". That is the strong atheist position, and it is philosophically indefensible, in my opinion. I assume that the number of serious, intelligent atheists who subscribe to the strong atheist position is very small indeed.
    Agreed, (and yes I'm aware of agnostic atheism). However, among the many types of atheist out there in the world today, there is a particular type of atheist, namely the misotheist whom I find quite interesting and amusing!

    The Misotheist hates God, hates the idea of God and misotheists are ardently against the concept of God! It's like in the movie "The Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey's character, Verbal Kent says "Keaton always said 'I don't believe in God but I'm afraid of Him'" a very poignant statement of admission for his misotheist position. One cannot claim to not believe in God and still fear a God that one doesn't believe exists - the idea here is that Keaton did believe that God exists, however, as an open enemy to God he knew that one day he will have to be judged by God and thus, was afraid of Him!!! A very interesting atheist position of misotheism. Willful denial of the ultimate axiomatic truth! Such people do exist!

    There are many type of atheist. It's a big world of opinionated disbelief out there eh bro?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    However, being an agnostic atheist does not mean that I assign an equal probability to the statements "God exists" and "God doesn't exist". I think it's massively more likely that God doesn't exist, so I typically label myself an atheist, unless there's time for this little explanation.

    Peace
    There is always time, and I'm a willing ear!
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    Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?


  23. #19
    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    As your brother in Humanity, I wholly agree with a lot of what you write on this forum. Theologically, we may differ on some points. But otherwise, we see eye to eye on many things!
    I think that is the kindest thing anyone has said to me on the forum in a long time. Scimitar, you're a star.

    We are all members of the human species, and I very much hope that those of us who are willing to talk to each other are more numerous than those who want to restrict us and prevent us from talking to each other.

    The Misotheist hates God, hates the idea of God and misotheists are ardently against the concept of God! It's like in the movie "The Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey's character, Verbal Kent says "Keaton always said 'I don't believe in God but I'm afraid of Him'" a very poignant statement of admission for his misotheist position. One cannot claim to not believe in God and still fear a God that one doesn't believe exists - the idea here is that Keaton did believe that God exists, however, as an open enemy to God he knew that one day he will have to be judged by God and thus, was afraid of Him!!! A very interesting atheist position of misotheism. Willful denial of the ultimate axiomatic truth! Such people do exist!

    There are many type of atheist. It's a big world of opinionated disbelief out there eh bro?
    Yes indeed. People hold all sorts of beliefs and non-beliefs. You're being very clever here by using a great film to illustrate a point that you feel may has some immediate relevance, so I'll encourage a quick round of applause for that. Keaton's statement is typical of the film's paradoxes (along with "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"), but his position is clearly an absurd one, as you mention. You can't hate a being you don't believe exists, unless it's some kind of fictional character, for example. I don't think too many misotheists exist in reality.

    There is always time, and I'm a willing ear!
    That's very kind of you. I would love to hear your thoughts on whether or not evolution is compatible with Islam, and lots of other topics.

    Peace
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    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Evolution Compatible with Islam?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    @czgibson :



    Please elaborate....

    Thanks
    I would very much like to elaborate, but I fear the forum staff would not allow it.

    Peace
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