Hamas leader offers truce if Israel withdraws from 1967 lands

[MTAFFI]

Hamas leader offers truce if Israel withdraws from 1967 lands

By ALBERT AJI, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago

DAMASCUS, Syria - The leader of Hamas says his Palestinian militant group is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it withdraws from all lands it seized in the 1967 war.

Khaled Mashaal says he made the offer to former President Carter in talks on Saturday.

Mashaal says Hamas would accept a Palestinian state limited to the lands Israel seized in 1967 — an implicit acceptance that Israel would exist alongside that state.

But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/...a_hamas_israel

3 things
1) Israel probably will reject this offer
2) What happens at the end of the 10 years?
3) Would all of the rocket attacks actually cease?

[Keltoi]

I don't fully understand what withdrawing from pre-1967 lands would entail, but that kind of concession should get more than a supposed 10 year truce. Perhaps a good strategy for Israel would be to withdraw from portions of the occupied territory and test the good faith of Hamas. If Hamas holds their end of the deal then perhaps more concession can be made. However, the statement by Hamas that they will never recognize Israel will probably be a non-starter from the beginning.

[snakelegs]

i don't think israel will ever withdraw to the 67 borders. they are building new settlements even as i type this.
i also don't think hamas will ever recognise the state of israel.
i don't think there is a genuine desire for peace among the powers-that-be on either side.
(sorry to be so cheerful)

[Trumble]

I think any settlement must ultimately require Israel to withdraw completely to the pre-1967 boundaries, but they will only do that if essentially forced to by international pressure, principally from the US. That's unlikely enough anyway, but with the ceasefire limited to 10 years (as you say, why?) it would never happen.

It's pretty much a 'nothing' offer from Hamas. The recognition thing they might get around by just forgetting it as long as they don't actually start shooting, but the ten year limitation is ludicrous. You either want peace, or you don't. It seems Hamas don't.

[The_Prince]

Hamas are following the prophet Muhammad's example in the truce, the prophet made a 10 year truce with the qurayshi pagans, at hudaybiyah, which brought peace.

lets be honest, this is the MID-EAST, peace there never lasts for more than 2 years, so to get a 10 year deal is very good, and theres nothing to say the truce will not be renewed at the end of 10 years.

[barney]

Pfft.
Why attack in 67 then?

Nahh, they simply want the Jews in the sea. They admit it openly to themselves. Nice ruse of war, but you try dismally to destroy someone four times, well big surprise, the fifth time they wait for you to stop shooting before talking.

Utter no-brainer. Hey! if I hand over my leg will you stop chopping me up!

Edit: to add the standard acceptance that the IDF are not saints and need to control their troops better.

[Roasted Cashew]

Nahh, they simply want the Jews in the sea.

What a load of BS. Total twaddle. This is filthy Zionist propaganda at it's best and to be fair a frequently asked Zionist question which if rephrased reads like this:

"Why do Palestinians want to destroy Israel and drive Israeli Jews into the sea?"

Full answer:
http://www.palestineremembered.com/A.../Story417.html

And I quote a few excerpts:
Are you aware that Israeli Zionists, during the 1948 war, pushed over tens of thousands of Palestinian refugees into the sea? For a long time, Zionists have been propagating fear based propaganda to their followers, probably this picture can tell you a bit of the real story:


It's misleading and unfair to focus on what Palestinians might allegedly do in the future, while the past and present of Palestinians are filled with Israeli war crimes. These types of accusations are meant to deflect and confuse the core issues of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The core issues of the conflict are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING (compulsory population transfer) of the Palestinian people for the past five decades.

Since the inception of Zionism, its leaders have been keen on creating a "Jewish State" based on a "Jewish majority" by mass immigration of Jews to Palestine, primarily European Jews fleeing from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. When a "Jewish majority" was impossible to achieve, based on Jewish immigration and natural growth, Zionist leaders (such as Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and Chaim Weizmann) concluded that "population transfer" was the only solution to what they referred to as the "Arab Problem." Year after year, the plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its indigenous people became known as the "transfer solution". David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the "transfer solution" as the following:

* In a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee on June 12th, 1938:

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims p. 144).

MORE ETHNIC CLEANSING QUOTES:
On July 12, 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary explaining the benefits of the compulsory population transfer (which was proposed in British Peel Commission):

"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. . . We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is MORE than a state, government and sovereignty----this is national consolidation in a free homeland." (Righteous Victims, p. 142)

Moshe Sharett, the first Israeli foreign minister, wrote in 1914:

We have forgotten that we have not come to an empty land to inherit it, but we have come to conquer a country from people inhabiting it, that governs it by the virtue of its language and savage culture ..... Recently there has been appearing in our newspapers the clarification about "the mutual misunderstanding" between us and the Arabs, about "common interests" [and] about "the possibility of unity and peace between two fraternal peoples." ..... [But] we must not allow ourselves to be deluded by such illusive hopes ..... for if we ceases to look upon our land, the Land of Israel, as ours alone and we allow a partner into our estate- all content and meaning will be lost to our enterprise. (Righteous Victims, p. 91)

There is no denying the fact that some Palestinians think as many Zionists do (a Palestinian version of Zionism), and very possibly they do so because they were the victims of such treatment themselves. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong, you have to agree that it is human nature to respond to terror with terror, and to racism with racism, these are facts that all decent people must accept and deplore simultaneously. No matter what the circumstances are (such as the urge to seek vengeance, revenge, reprisals, etc.), targeting civilians to achieve political or military objectives, in either war or non-war situations, is terrorism. It should be noted that the Palestinian people have been on the receiving end of Israeli terrorism (the chief aspect of which are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING of 8.5 million Palestinians) for the past five decades.

[Trumble]

lets be honest, this is the MID-EAST, peace there never lasts for more than 2 years, so to get a 10 year deal is very good, and theres nothing to say the truce will not be renewed at the end of 10 years.

You might have a point if a truce/ceasefire was all that was involved. It is not. Hamas are asking for a lot in return for very little, and it would be totally politically unacceptable in Israel to accept anything short of a permanent settlement. It doesn't make that much all round.. if the 'deal' would be limited to ten years are Hamas agreeing that that Israel can move back into Gaza and the West Bank afterwards? Of course not.

[barney]

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/200...alem-well.html

Hamas does want Gaza, they do want the West bank, but thats not their long term goal.
The "Driving the jews into the sea" although it has been said by many including PLO, Black september and Hamas leadership members, i dont envision as the palastinians herding the Jews into the waves at gunpoint. More as a plan that, when they have full political control of all of "palastine", the jews are going to want to leave.

[Roasted Cashew]

The "Driving the jews into the sea" although it has been said by many including PLO, Black september and Hamas leadership members, i dont envision as the palastinians herding the Jews into the waves at gunpoint.

There is no denying the fact that some Palestinians think as many Zionists do (a Palestinian version of Zionism), and very possibly they do so because they were the victims of such treatment themselves.

[Keltoi]

Then one must deal with reality. Israeli isn't going anywhere. The Palestinians, Hamas in particular, can either acknowledge that and seriously try to pursue a peace deal, or keep the status quo going and watch as more people die.

[Izyan]

I would grant Hamas these terms, draw back to the borders and recognize Palestine as a state. The second a rocket lad in Israel I would declare and fight a total war.

[Roasted Cashew]

I would grant Hamas these terms, draw back to the borders and recognize Palestine as a state. The second a rocket lad in Israel I would declare and fight a total war.

Sure BUT remember to pose this threat of full waged war during the agreement. And if a rocket does fall on Israeli soil, pls do an investigation to confirm whether Hamas was behind it or not. The crude rockets are not fired by Hamas, but by Al Aqsa martyrs, which are allied with the collaborationist Fatah movement.

[Izyan]

Sure BUT remember to pose this threat of full waged war during the agreement. And if a rocket does fall on Israeli soil, pls do an investigation to confirm whether Hamas was behind it or not. The crude rockets are not fired by Hamas, but by Al Aqsa martyrs, which are allied with the collaborationist Fatah movement.

Did England check with Ireland to make sure it was the IRA blowing up buildings? Aren't Al Aqsa Martys palestinian?

[mas]

isreal never keep promises who we lying to ! .. this how it is ,.. there will never be peace... cuz obviously when someone come to ur land n takes it.. then try to kill ya n take u out .. .. should they be happy about it. i dont think so.. this how i see it.. no major religion should rule pali .. it should be open for everyone.................... let them fight at the end there will be a winner... n death war will keep going on cuz no one wanna help.... ppl show wat they wanna show .. the only way to see the story from both sides .. i watch our arabic news channels ... like aljazeera or al alam.... unlike others.. u think like cnn there isnt any war going on.................... watever peace

[barney]

Did England check with Ireland to make sure it was the IRA blowing up buildings? Aren't Al Aqsa Martys palestinian?

Bad analogy since the IRA were not the Government of Ireland. Hamas are the Govt of the Palastinians.

Hence Hamas is either ordering the attacks in which case they are at war with Israel and Israel has the right to Invade them and destroy the country.
Or they are failing to prevent the attacks , in which case Israel has the right to self defence which may include the above.

Israel wont of course do that! World opinion prevents it.
I'm Trying to think of another country in the whole world that has High Explosive missiles crashing into it evry day from across a border and is reacting with the same restraint as the bloodthirsty Jews.

[Roasted Cashew]

Did England check with Ireland to make sure it was the IRA blowing up buildings? Aren't Al Aqsa Martys palestinian?

Your truce is with Hamas not with the entire Palestinian individuals. Pakistan just brokered a peace deal with Baitullah Mehsud, the leader of Pakistani Taliban yesterday. Today we had a car bomb exploding in the city of Mardan. SO, who is resposnible? Pakistan believes it's not the Pakistani Taliban and will carry out an investigation. Mostly it's believed it was the work of other splinter groups.

DID England had a truce with the IRA? I don't really know much about that conflict.

[Roasted Cashew]

I'm Trying to think of another country in the whole world that has High Explosive missiles crashing into it every day from across a border and is reacting with the same restraint as the bloodthirsty Jews.

High explosive missiles??? Are you referring to home made crude rockets? Qassam rockets are symbolic. They do little or no damage. Israeli Defence Ministry Director-General, Yaakov Toran is quoted as saying, "We need to remember that Qassams are more a psychological than a physical threat. Statistically they cause the fewest losses. . . " I believe they have caused the death of 13-15 people since 2002. Israel easily triples the amount in a single day.

Qassam were first fired into Israeli housing projects in 2002, and are extremely inaccurate, short-range homemade rockets. They are not Hezbollah-style Katyushas. When they are fired from Gaza, they are generally fired toward the Israeli settlement of Sderot, located upon the ashes of the Palestinian village of Nadj. Jewish terrorists drove Palestinians out of Nadj in 1948. Najd is one of 418 ethnically cleansed villages. Not a trace of this peaceful farming community remains.

[Keltoi]

Let's not pretend Qassam rockets don't kill people...

[Trumble]

DID England had a truce with the IRA? I don't really know much about that conflict.

Yes, at the end, but not on any sort of even footing. The IRA just ran out of enough people who thought that "armed struggle" would achieve anything more than lots of prematurely dead people on both sides. Those who were left were generally far more interested in preserving their potentially lucrative criminal rackets than in the cause. The Republicans realised that eventually demographic changes would prove a stronger weapon than bombs and bullets.. it might take a while, that's all.