william lane craig quoted a german scholar, unfortunatly I cannot work out the spelling for his name, it sounds something like gaer puin. Now 20% of the koran being unintelligible would go against the idea of the beauty of the koran and the message of mohammed being for all men, lets face it if the koran is for all men and 20% of it cant be understood then that makes it even more difficult to understand. Also weather the koran is beautiful or not doesnt really show it to be true or not.
Now the idea of mohammed bringing a message for the whole world seems a bit dubious, I mean first of all islam is a religion which can only be understood in its original arabic form. The highest percentage I have heard from an imam quote for the loss of meaning in a translation is %80 and that is significant instruction which is limited to people who can speak arabic. Also culturally mohammeds message doesnt travel well, you only need to be ni england to hear of the honour killings to see that. The fact islam is an orthaproxy religion means that you can have some mahdi sects believing in a prophet after mohammed and then a sunni beliving you can bomb someone and all can come under the umbrella of islam without going against the teachings of mohammed in the hadith. Also even in the koran when you get verses like "no compulsion in religion" it is owellian double speak because if someone converts from being a muslim, they either get rejected by their family or even killed. where is the beauty in that?
Now 20% of the koran being unintelligible would go against the idea of the beauty of the koran and the message of mohammed being for all men, lets face it if the koran is for all men and 20% of it cant be understood then that makes it even more difficult to understand. Also weather the koran is beautiful or not doesnt really show it to be true or not.
Where is this 20% that cannot be understood?
Now the idea of mohammed bringing a message for the whole world seems a bit dubious, I mean first of all islam is a religion which can only be understood in its original arabic form.
I think it's fair to say that the majority of coverts in Islam don't know arabic. Any religious scripture would have to be revealed in some sort of a language and for Islam god chose Arabic as it is the deepest, most precise, concise and clear language. This is a topic that we can be discussed at length if you want.
Every Prophet of God was sent to their own nation. Jesus and Moses etc were not sent for the whole of mankind as they were restricted to their own nation. Muhammad's (pbuh) message is for the whole of mankind.
The highest percentage I have heard from an imam quote for the loss of meaning in a translation is %80 and that is significant instruction which is limited to people who can speak arabic.
And that's because the Arabic is the word of God himself, whereas the translation is the word of a human being. You cannot translate the miracle of the Qur'an as this is limited to the Arabic.
Also culturally mohammeds message doesnt travel well, you only need to be ni england to hear of the honour killings to see that.
Honour killings is not a part of Islam, this is a cultural and unislamic practice.
The fact islam is an orthaproxy religion means that you can have some mahdi sects believing in a prophet after mohammed
Nope. Prophet Muhammad is the last and final Messenger and this is in the Qur'an, Hadeeth and the conses of the Muslim scholars.
and then a sunni beliving you can bomb someone and all can come under the umbrella of islam without going against the teachings of mohammed in the hadith.
Yeah that's the media for you. After the second world war every German was a terrorist. After the war with the russians every russian was a terrorist. Now history repeats it self and every Muslim is unjustly labeled as a terrorist.
As far as Islam and Muslims are concerned, suicide is impermissible. Killing innocent women and children and any unjust killing for that matter is impermissible.
Ask Muslims about Islam, not non-muslims.
Also even in the koran when you get verses like "no compulsion in religion" it is owellian double speak because if someone converts from being a muslim, they either get rejected by their family or even killed. where is the beauty in that?
The punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what about the one who rejects the One true Lord?
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
william lane craig quoted a german scholar, unfortunatly I cannot work out the spelling for his name, it sounds something like gaer puin. Now 20% of the koran being unintelligible would go against the idea of the beauty of the koran and the message of mohammed being for all men, lets face it if the koran is for all men and 20% of it cant be understood then that makes it even more difficult to understand. Also weather the koran is beautiful or not doesnt really show it to be true or not.
Now the idea of mohammed bringing a message for the whole world seems a bit dubious, I mean first of all islam is a religion which can only be understood in its original arabic form. The highest percentage I have heard from an imam quote for the loss of meaning in a translation is %80 and that is significant instruction which is limited to people who can speak arabic. Also culturally mohammeds message doesnt travel well, you only need to be ni england to hear of the honour killings to see that. The fact islam is an orthaproxy religion means that you can have some mahdi sects believing in a prophet after mohammed and then a sunni beliving you can bomb someone and all can come under the umbrella of islam without going against the teachings of mohammed in the hadith. Also even in the koran when you get verses like "no compulsion in religion" it is owellian double speak because if someone converts from being a muslim, they either get rejected by their family or even killed. where is the beauty in that?
OOOOHHHHHH its getting so tedious trying to explain to these people that Allah loves them and that the Qur'an is to make there way easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May Allah OPEN thier eyes to the Noble Qur,an narrated to our beloved Rasulullah (pbuh)
"O ye who belive! Endure, outdo all others in endurance, be ready, and observe your duty to Allah, in order that you may succeed"
OOOOHHHHHH its getting so tedious trying to explain to these people that Allah loves them and that the Qur'an is to make there way easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May Allah OPEN thier eyes to the Noble Qur,an narrated to our beloved Rasulullah (pbuh)
is the way in the koran really that easy? I mean after all allah puts your good deeds and your bad on the scales. how can you be sure when your on your death bed that you have done enough good deeds? it means you could be a muslim your whole life and if you have 1 bad deed more than good you dont get into paradise.
is the way in the koran really that easy? I mean after all allah puts your good deeds and your bad on the scales. how can you be sure when your on your death bed that you have done enough good deeds? it means you could be a muslim your whole life and if you have 1 bad deed more than good you dont get into paradise.
From what I understand that's about right.
No Muslim ever knows for sure whether s/he will make it into Jannah.
But then, Allah is merciful too ...
(But I better let Muslims answer you )
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
From what I understand that's about right.
No Muslim ever knows for sure whether s/he will make it into Jannah.
Do you know if you'll be headed there? without quoting me something from your bible about how Jesus eats the sins of those who believe him while promising a land to those who have crucified him?
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Sheik Yusuf Estes once said .. " Islam is the only religion that will gurantee you'll go to hell " i will post the vid in a second
The Prophet pbuh said: "Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the Angles and all the people" (Saheeh, At-Tabaranee)
Abu Bakr As-sdeeq & Umar Ibn Al Kattab (RA) r the best of all muslims after the prophets PBU them all
The Prophet pbuh said: "Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the Angles and all the people" (Saheeh, At-Tabaranee)
Abu Bakr As-sdeeq & Umar Ibn Al Kattab (RA) r the best of all muslims after the prophets PBU them all
From what I understand that's about right.
No Muslim ever knows for sure whether s/he will make it into Jannah.
But then, Allah is merciful too ...
(But I better let Muslims answer you )
Actually thats not right, every muslim knows they're eventually going to Jannah, but for that they have to possess atleast the basic tenents of faith. But if they've been naughty then they'll have to stop over in Jahannam for quite a while, then they will have got what they deserved in punishment and then they'd get what they deserved for their true faith in Jannah.
btw .. you'll find what I said above in the 1st minute .. so you don't have to go through all the vid
The Prophet pbuh said: "Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the Angles and all the people" (Saheeh, At-Tabaranee)
Abu Bakr As-sdeeq & Umar Ibn Al Kattab (RA) r the best of all muslims after the prophets PBU them all
Yeah all muslims go to heaven - one way or another - the hard way or the easy way - its up to the individual.
or has Woodrow said - Muslims go to heaven by not going on the road to hell - (something like that).
peace
Last edited by Zafran; 06-14-2009 at 10:16 PM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
is the way in the koran really that easy? I mean after all allah puts your good deeds and your bad on the scales. How can you be sure when your on your death bed that you have done enough good deeds? It means you could be a muslim your whole life and if you have 1 bad deed more than good you dont get into paradise.
exactly thats it in a nut shell, alhamdulillah
"O ye who belive! Endure, outdo all others in endurance, be ready, and observe your duty to Allah, in order that you may succeed"
Yeah all muslims go to heaven - one way or another - the hard way or the easy way - its up to the individual.
or has Woodrow said - Muslims go to heaven by not going on the road to hell - (something like that).
peace
so are you one of these muslims that believes in a tempory hell? if so do you believe that muslims who dont have enough good deeds go to hell for a bit and then into heaven?
so are you one of these muslims that believes in a tempory hell? if so do you believe that muslims who dont have enough good deeds go to hell for a bit and then into heaven?
He is one of these muslims that believes in the Qur,an and the prophet Muhammads (pbuh) teachings, and yes muslims will be in hell for varying degrees except the true and pure ones who are few and far between, the rest of us are in the business of damage limitation
"O ye who belive! Endure, outdo all others in endurance, be ready, and observe your duty to Allah, in order that you may succeed"
so are you one of these muslims that believes in a tempory hell? if so do you believe that muslims who dont have enough good deeds go to hell for a bit and then into heaven?
is the way in the koran really that easy? I mean after all allah puts your good deeds and your bad on the scales. how can you be sure when your on your death bed that you have done enough good deeds?
You cannot. That's why we are encouraged in Islam to do good and avoid bad. Even the Sahabah (companions of the Prophet [saw]) were afraid that they had not done enough to enter Paradise - and these were the guys who followed directly in the footsteps of the Prophet [saw]!
it means you could be a muslim your whole life and if you have 1 bad deed more than good you dont get into paradise.
For several reasons, this is not true:
1) Good deeds outweigh bad deeds at a minimum of 10 to 1
2) Intention of good = 1 good deed; intention of bad = 0 bad deed
3) If your bad deeds somehow outweigh your good deeds, you will serve some time in Hell, then you will enter paradise.
4) At the end of the day; Allah decides who enters paradise and who does not.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
)
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks