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Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

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    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

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    Look at this clown =_=!. I'm sorry brother @Eric H , but i lose with each day respect towards Christian preachers and bishops and down that road. "People pleasers" but not God pleasers.

    "The Archbishop seemed to suggest it would be hypocritical for Muslim leaders to refuse any correlation between the terrorist acts and Islam, and that it would be akin to saying Christians had no involvement in the Srebrenica massacre of more than 8,000 Muslims at the hands of the Bosnian Serb Army. “I don’t think it is getting us anywhere, just like saying Srebrenica had nothing to do with Christianity,

    How on earth does Islam say go kill innocent Muslims? Has he lost it completely? Or even blaming Christianity for Srebrenica massacre. These people are the cause religion is being looked at in such a bad way. Because they take responsibility as if it is Christianity or Islam at fault for such insane people. These people who have such a say in these matters are in my eyes even MORE evil than the ones who are doing the killing. Because of such people green light is given for secular governments to ban more and more religious things. People even being prosecuted because they follow a religion in the end. Such people are not only a disgrace to Christianity, but also to religion in general. As if such evil people with intention say such things as they have a hidden agenda to get rid of the religion by speaking on behalf of religion. Somebody who truly believes what he believes and KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS what his religion is all about..how on earth can they say my religion has to do with such evil acts of killing innocent people?

    ======News article==========


    Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby has urged faith leaders to take action against religion being adopted as a pretext to commit mass terrorist atrocities. Speaking in the aftermath of the London Bridge terrorist attack on Saturday evening, which killed seven and injured almost 50, Welby said a fundamental lack of religious knowledge is hindering authorities’ attempts to counter the theology behind acts of terrorism.

    “They are often people who are unable to put themselves in the shoes of religious believers and understand a way of looking at the world that says that this defines your whole life, every single aspect of who you are and what you are,” he told the BBC Today program on Monday. The Church of England’s highest cleric called on all leaders, religious and secular, to acknowledge the ideological nature of “religiously motivated violence,” as failing to do so would likely make it “impossible” to overcome. Welby said religion has been “twisted and misused” throughout history to accommodate violence. “We have got to say that if something happens within our own faith tradition we need to take responsibility for countering that.” The Archbishop seemed to suggest it would be hypocritical for Muslim leaders to refuse any correlation between the terrorist acts and Islam, and that it would be akin to saying Christians had no involvement in the Srebrenica massacre of more than 8,000 Muslims at the hands of the Bosnian Serb Army. “I don’t think it is getting us anywhere, just like saying Srebrenica had nothing to do with Christianity,” he said. Although he praised the “extraordinary” condemnation of the London Bridge attack by every “significant” Muslim leader and body, he said that Islam is missing a “structure."

    “From an outside perspective, one of the issues about dealing with Islam is that there is not much of a structure. There isn’t a pope or a bishop that you can go to and say these are the leaders. “There will always be particular groups which take views that are different from the mainstream but what is clear over the weekend is the extraordinary level of condemnation by every significant Muslim leader we know and every significant Muslim body we know.” It follows the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) condemnation of the attack in the “strongest terms.” “I am appalled and angered by the terrorist attacks at London Bridge and Borough Market, in my home city,” Harun Khan, Secretary General of the MCB, said in a statement. “These acts of violence were truly shocking and I condemn them in the strongest terms. “Muslims everywhere are outraged and disgusted at these cowards who once again have destroyed the lives of our fellow Britons. “That this should happen in this month of Ramadan, when many Muslims were praying and fasting only goes to show that these people respect neither life nor faith.” It also comes as 130 imams and religious leaders have refused to offer Islam’s traditional funeral prayer to the perpetrators of the London Bridge and Borough Market attack, despite it usually being performed for all people, regardless of their actions. The MCB justified its decision on the basis that such “indefensible actions” are “completely at odds with the lofty teachings of Islam.”

    Source: https://www.rt.com/uk/391107-archbis...ampaign=chrome
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    Greetings,

    The Archbishop is clearly right. Recognising the problem is a first step towards overcoming it. Consider the following questions:

    Why do ISIS behead people they have rounded up for punishment when they could more easily shoot them?

    Why do ISIS throw homosexuals off tall buildings in preference to any other punishment?

    Why do ISIS fill their propaganda magazine, Dabiq, with endless quotes from the Qur'an as justification for their actions?

    You may say that ISIS are operating according to a perverted and wrong interpretation of Islam, and that's a discussion worth having, but to say that their behaviour has nothing whatever to do with Islam is an example of wilfully ignoring obvious facts. Burying your head in the sand by denying this connection helps nobody.

    Peace
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,

    The Archbishop is clearly right. Recognising the problem is a first step towards overcoming it. Consider the following questions:

    Why do ISIS behead people they have rounded up for punishment when they could more easily shoot them?

    Why do ISIS throw homosexuals off tall buildings in preference to any other punishment?

    Why do ISIS fill their propaganda magazine, Dabiq, with endless quotes from the Qur'an as justification for their actions?

    You may say that ISIS are operating according to a perverted and wrong interpretation of Islam, and that's a discussion worth having, but to say that their behaviour has nothing whatever to do with Islam is an example of wilfully ignoring obvious facts. Burying your head in the sand by denying this connection helps nobody.

    Peace
    If we follow YOUR logic, then tomorrow so to say i will start drinking alcohol, i will start talking like a English guy, be a BIG UK patriot and go kill somebody in France. I will say my country was always at war with the French and this is revenge for many of my brothers who had died back then. With that start shouting this is for the "Queen of England".

    What will UK say? Will they take responsibility? I am 100% sure they will distance themselves from me and say we have NOTHING to do with him and we are not like that. So look at the perspective.

    You yourself have been a member on this forum since 2005 and that you STILL have not understood even the SLIGHTEST meaning of what Islam is all about, says enough about you. Very shallow minded, however knowledge and understanding comes from the Creator. The problem is your heart but yeah still it is like i am talking to a wall.

    Go ponder a bit sir and ask yourself how come this Muslim says something like that. Maybe i am wrong and based on what may i be wrong? Maybe he knows and understands something that i don't..maybe i can learn something from him. Learning something from somebody else isn't losing your honor you know. Rather the person who pursues the path of learning is rather a wise person.

    Peace.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    Archbishop of canterbury is a terrorist!!!!


    he never condemns christian terrorism so this means he condones it!

    these hypocryts have no right to tell us what to do!
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post
    Archbishop of canterbury is a terrorist!!!!


    he never condemns christian terrorism so this means he condones it!

    these hypocryts have no right to tell us what to do!
    These hypocrites do even MORE damage by destroying Christianity also from within. Sadly many Christian brothers and sisters haven't done anything about such evil people. Wolf in sheep clothing.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    These hypocrites do even MORE damage by destroying Christianity also from within. Sadly many Christian brothers and sisters haven't done anything about such evil people. Wolf in sheep clothing.
    thats right brother; these christians have been murdering millions all across the middle east for last 15 years and when did we ever see the archbishop of cantebury come on tv to condemn it??? and they keep on telling us to condemn our lot!
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post
    thats right brother; these christians have been murdering millions all across the middle east for last 15 years and when did we ever see the archbishop of cantebury come on tv to condemn it??? and they keep on telling us to condemn our lot!
    Well i wouldn't call them Christians, just i wouldn't call people like ISIS Muslims. Both are murderers and both will deserve what they have worked for in the next life.

    "And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one." Qur'an 18:49

    Whenever i think about such ayaat..suddenly all the killing that is happening and we cannot do much except speak out against it my heart becomes more at ease. As that Day..none of those criminals will get a free ticket except if they embrace Islam and ask for Allah's forgiveness. However that is NOT an easy thing to do. When somebody has tasted wealth and power..one tends to become blind. But still Allah knows best what their destiny will be only knowing if they die in that state there is no where to run for them i am more content already.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Well i wouldn't call them Christians, just i wouldn't call people like ISIS Muslims. Both are murderers and both will deserve what they have worked for in the next life.

    "And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one." Qur'an 18:49

    Whenever i think about such ayaat..suddenly all the killing that is happening and we cannot do much except speak out against it my heart becomes more at ease. As that Day..none of those criminals will get a free ticket except if they embrace Islam and ask for Allah's forgiveness. However that is NOT an easy thing to do. When somebody has tasted wealth and power..one tends to become blind. But still Allah knows best what their destiny will be only knowing if they die in that state there is no where to run for them i am more content already.
    ooh we musnt do takfir on the muslim extremists brother as if we get a takfir wrong we ourselves turn kaafir ; they are deviants but not kuffar as non-muslim is only one who deliberately rejects the true faith
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post
    ooh we musnt do takfir on the muslim extremists brother as if we get a takfir wrong we ourselves turn kaafir ; they are deviants but not kuffar as non-muslim is only one who deliberately rejects the true faith
    I do that ONLY based on certain ahadith. The ahadith about the khawarij. Based on that i have drawn that conclusion that is also the ONLY takfir i have done based on that.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    I do that ONLY based on certain ahadith. The ahadith about the khawarij. Based on that i have drawn that conclusion that is also the ONLY takfir i have done based on that.
    the sahaba [ra] didn't do takfir on khawarij although the khawarij were far worse; they used to kill all muslims who didn't believe the same as them; they literally used to come to muslim towns and slaughter ...

    the extremists of today have traits of khawarij but if takfir wasn't done on the worst of khawarij by the most knowledgeable people how can we do takfir confidently on them?
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post
    the sahaba [ra] didn't do takfir on khawarij although the khawarij were far worse; they used to kill all muslims who didn't believe the same as them; they literally used to come to muslim towns and slaughter ...

    the extremists of today have traits of khawarij but if takfir wasn't done on the worst of khawarij by the most knowledgeable people how can we do takfir confidently on them?
    Well i can agree with you on that (thanks for giving good argument), but what is left is that i agree with killing them is permissible so to say.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb



    Build Islamic schools that is built on Islamic values and morals. Islam condemns terrorism. No matter how much we say that, although true, there will always be terrorism.

    Why should we apologize for what happens? We all know it is wrong.


    Allahu alam.
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    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,
    Wassup Gibzon... wasgud

    format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    The Archbishop is clearly right. Recognising the problem is a first step towards overcoming it. Consider the following questions:

    Why do ISIS behead people they have rounded up for punishment when they could more easily shoot them?

    Why do ISIS throw homosexuals off tall buildings in preference to any other punishment?

    Why do ISIS fill their propaganda magazine, Dabiq, with endless quotes from the Qur'an as justification for their actions?

    You may say that ISIS are operating according to a perverted and wrong interpretation of Islam, and that's a discussion worth having, but to say that their behaviour has nothing whatever to do with Islam is an example of wilfully ignoring obvious facts. Burying your head in the sand by denying this connection helps nobody.

    Peace
    Personally, I believe you are the ignorant one!

    Let's discuss you! Yes?

    Scimi
    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    We would also need to -along with ideology - carefully look at all of the things the people of iraq and syria have gone through over the past few decades - and centuries - in order to be able to judge them and those who ally with them.

    Wasn't that the type of thinking used to justify the horrors in palestine after the rothschild proxy engineered holocaust?
    - despite the fact that the jews were no longer living through the persecution used as a defence for their acts.....acts which had nothing whatsoever to do with the palestinians or jordanians or syrians. Mankind was told: "but they need a state and the palestinians are unwilling to move out of their own homes, hence they can be psychologised with the nazis in europe.........this is in stark contrast to what Muslims have been and are going through despite their untold patience.
    Also - if we were to compare the teachings of Islam with that of the bible, and any other secular or non-Muslim government policy, I'm certain that the teachings of Islam would prove to be the most mild in comparison.

    I think the British government should take responsibility for the incidents since it is guilty of crimes against humanity on a massive scale globally, while it has attempted to justify it through propaganda against -and vilification of - Muslims with disregard to the fact that so many British Muslims suffer and face humiliation and unjust discrimination along with the people attacked by the british government abroad.

    Having been a victim of the propaganda during the second iraq war, I can assure you that you wouldn't feel cozy, comfortable, or patriotic to the queen if you were me and you opened any newspaper or watched any british tv news propaganda piece.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-06-2017 at 08:30 PM.
    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury




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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Well i can agree with you on that (thanks for giving good argument), but what is left is that i agree with killing them is permissible so to say.
    some scholars have spouted out that they can be killed, but they are more care-free when talking about enemies of the west than they are of enemies of Islam, for example, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf will give all sorts of excuses why an american soldier invading iraq is not guilty, 'they are not fighting Islam', 'they think their fighting terrorism' 'they think their defending their country blah blah [i.e, because they've been brainwashed with falsehood so their Innocent due to their ignorance and misunderstanding ], if they applied the same amount of compassion and benifit of doubt to our extremists too the judgement should be similar, but they're too much under pressure to condemn our lot in the most strongest of terms or else they loose their credibility in the media as 'moderate scholars' so i think western muslim scholars do have a conflict of interest

    khawrij of Prophet's [saw] era had no excuse; they had the Messenger of ALlah their clarifying the truth, but nowadays their is a lot of confusion, misteachings and provocation too and it's easy for one to be drawn into extremism

    the intellectual giant of the West, Noam Chomsky says that isis is a reactionary force provoked into existence by western aggression
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    I do that ONLY based on certain ahadith. The ahadith about the khawarij. Based on that i have drawn that conclusion that is also the ONLY takfir i have done based on that.
    thats a bit weird too bro as i recall you do not even do takfir on the ahmadiyah, those who all muslims are united are kuffar without doubt!
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    Greetings,

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    If we follow YOUR logic, then tomorrow so to say i will start drinking alcohol, i will start talking like a English guy, be a BIG UK patriot and go kill somebody in France. I will say my country was always at war with the French and this is revenge for many of my brothers who had died back then. With that start shouting this is for the "Queen of England".

    What will UK say? Will they take responsibility? I am 100% sure they will distance themselves from me and say we have NOTHING to do with him and we are not like that. So look at the perspective.
    If you as an individual did that, obviously people would think you were crazy. But imagine if hundreds of young men did the same over a period of many years. Then the UK would indeed have a problem that it could no longer deny.

    You yourself have been a member on this forum since 2005 and that you STILL have not understood even the SLIGHTEST meaning of what Islam is all about, says enough about you. Very shallow minded, however knowledge and understanding comes from the Creator. The problem is your heart but yeah still it is like i am talking to a wall.
    While you have been a member of this forum for, let's see, three months or so. In fact I think this is the first time I remember conversing with you. Pleased to meet you.

    During the years I've been on the forum I've been fortunate enough to learn a great deal about Islam from the many people I've spoken to here. You have obviously read all those conversations and formed a very clear picture of the state of my knowledge on the subject.

    Go ponder a bit sir and ask yourself how come this Muslim says something like that. Maybe i am wrong and based on what may i be wrong? Maybe he knows and understands something that i don't..maybe i can learn something from him. Learning something from somebody else isn't losing your honor you know. Rather the person who pursues the path of learning is rather a wise person.
    Thank you for lecturing me on the importance of learning. (I'm a teacher. )

    Maybe you would like to answer the three questions in my previous post. Have you at least considered them?

    Peace.
    I couldn't agree more.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    Greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

    The Archbishop is clearly right. Recognising the problem is a first step towards overcoming it.
    Just my own thoughts, but I would have been happier if the Archbishop had tried to build greater interfaith relations. This is a time for people of peace to come together.

    Why do ISIS behead people they have rounded up for punishment when they could more easily shoot them?

    Why do ISIS throw homosexuals off tall buildings in preference to any other punishment?
    All murders are savage and wrong.

    Why do ISIS fill their propaganda magazine, Dabiq, with endless quotes from the Qur'an as justification for their actions?
    If you isolate passages from the Qur'an and take them out of context, you can pretty much justify anything you want to do. But you would have to overlook passages that say, 'if you kill one person, it is as if you have killed the whole of mankind, and if you save one person, it is as if you have saved the whole of mankind.

    You may say that ISIS are operating according to a perverted and wrong interpretation of Islam,
    When you look at the 99 names of Allah, I would say that ISIS is perverting Islam.

    but to say that their behaviour has nothing whatever to do with Islam is an example of wilfully ignoring obvious facts. Burying your head in the sand by denying this connection helps nobody.
    Fortunately, the brothers and sisters on this forum do not follow Islam in the same way as ISIS. So I would just ask the question, who is truthfully striving to follow Islam, the people on this forum or ISIS?

    In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

    Eric
    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb



    Allah guides many by the Qur'aan, and misguides many, and He does not misguide except the defiantly disobedient.

    And Allah knows best.
    Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterbury

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
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    Re: Muslim leaders should ‘take responsibility’ for extremism – Archbishop of Canterb

    format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post
    some scholars have spouted out that they can be killed, but they are more care-free when talking about enemies of the west than they are of enemies of Islam, for example, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf will give all sorts of excuses why an american soldier invading iraq is not guilty, 'they are not fighting Islam', 'they think their fighting terrorism' 'they think their defending their country blah blah [i.e, because they've been brainwashed with falsehood so their Innocent due to their ignorance and misunderstanding ], if they applied the same amount of compassion and benifit of doubt to our extremists too the judgement should be similar, but they're too much under pressure to condemn our lot in the most strongest of terms or else they loose their credibility in the media as 'moderate scholars' so i think western muslim scholars do have a conflict of interest

    khawrij of Prophet's [saw] era had no excuse; they had the Messenger of ALlah their clarifying the truth, but nowadays their is a lot of confusion, misteachings and provocation too and it's easy for one to be drawn into extremism

    the intellectual giant of the West, Noam Chomsky says that isis is a reactionary force provoked into existence by western aggression
    Some US soldiers have seen the horrors and have started speaking out against US government. I COULD even excuse many back in 2003 and invading of Iraq as there wasn't enough ways to find out the truth. However now we are living in 2017. You me and almost anybody in the he west that joins the army of those terrorist governments have no excuse. You cannot say I didn't know.

    There are people that STILL believe 9/11 was done by some guys in some caves in Afghanistan. While even professors have concluded and spoken out that what was going on with that he towers couldn''t happen because of just some planes. The problem rather is ..some people just don't want to think and question.

    That is why I just recently concluded that we are living in such bizarre times and there are some people among us that see so many corrupt things (minor signs)..why is the fitrah not kicking in and questioning things? These people are just lost and will not question or stand up against anything. There are seriously people who fall of their bike or something happens with them and other people just walk by or just stand still and are looking as if something to entertain them selves. People are fighting nobody is trying to stop the fight..people have an accident nobody is trying to help or call an ambulance.

    So the people right now that join those armies right now have no excuse to say they were ignorant about it. I already have used this example but look at that criminal in the movie "American Sniper".

    Being ignorant in these times is no longer a "accident" rather a choice. Just look at wat Allah has given humanity to use (internet). No longer be confused of what is going on as I can read other people's opinions and perspectives. I can think for myself and ask those people for proof and they can give me their proof. All while they might live on the other side of the globe.
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