~ Muslims Denied Mosques By French Islamophobes ~

[Zman]

/Peace To All

Muslims Denied Mosques By French Islamophobes

French Muslims Struggle To Have Mosques

Courtesy Of: IslamOnLine
Mon. Jul. 9, 2007

MONTREUIL, France — The construction of grand mosques in France has become a mission impossible as rightists stand as the main roadblock and derail strenuous efforts made by Muslims to have a proper place of worship just like other communities in the secular country.

"Islam is the second largest religious group in France. Surely we can have a decent place," Mohamed Aboulbaki a Muslim leader from the town of Montreuil, east of Paris, told Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Monday, July 9.

"The Catholics, Protestants and Jews all have a place to pray in dignity. Why not us?"

In Montreuil, plans for building a modern-style grand mosque was halted after a lawsuit won by far-right politicians.

The case of Montreuil echoes that of the Mediterranean port city of Marseille — home to 250,000 Muslims — where the building of a grand mosque was frozen in April following a similar lawsuit.

The construction of a mosque in the Paris suburb of Creteil is also challenged in court.

Rightists made no secret of their Islamophobic views.

"What we want to halt is the Islamization of our country," Patricia Vayssiere, the far-right councilor from Montreuil, told AFP.

Vayssiere, a senior member of the far-right National Republican Mouvement (MNR), added that they see the building of a mosque as encouraging the emergence of Islam as political force in France.

"We are not against Islam as long as it remains a private matter."

But Aboulbaki blasted the right-wing's Islamophobic tone.

"The idea that building a mosque amounts to encouraging Islamization and fundamentalism must be removed once and for all," he said.

France must "get its mosques out of the basements" if it wants its Muslim population to fully integrate into mainstream society, added Aboulbaki.

France is home to around six million Muslims, the largest Muslim minority in Europe.

Muslims have only 1,500 mosques or prayer houses, most of which are housed in small, modest halls, often described as "basement mosques."

France's first mosque, the Great Mosque of Paris, opened in 1926 in Paris' Latin Quarter. It was built with help from Algerian donors.

Double-Standards

Far-rightists have seized on provisions of a law on the separation of church and state to argue that city councils are illegally subsidizing religion by awarding leases for little money.

But French officials have admitted that the decades-long church and state law is exploited when it comes to the construction of mosques.

"The fundamental issue is that there is a double-standard," said Didier Leschi, the director of the religious affairs office at the Interior Ministry.

"Long-term leases are only being challenged when they are for mosques."

The Montreuil city council agreed to a long-term lease of land for the paltry sum of one euro (1.4 dollars) while Marseille had demanded 300 euros per year for a plot for the new mosque. Both, after court rulings, have reviewed the leases.

"In Montreuil, there is opposition to the symbolic sum of one euro but in the 1930s, the Catholic Church in the Paris region got long-term leases for 1,000 francs, or about 1.50 euros," said Leschi.

Vincent Geisser, a researcher on Islam, says that not all politicians are Islamophobic, but rather support the construction of mosques to help ease some of the tensions in the immigrant-heavy suburbs.

"Many mayors see a mosque in their community as a sort of clinic, with clearly identified people that they could talk to and enlist for help," said Geisser.

Via:
http://freethoughtmanifesto.blogspot...by-french.html

[Encolpius]

This doesn't surprise me, Marseille and that area are the main political strongholds of the FN.

[wilberhum]

It seems that every time Muslims don't get what they want they cry Islamaphovia.

There are many reasons why people would find this undesirable and thay have nothing to do with intollorance.

[Encolpius]

It seems that every time Muslims don't get what they want they cry Islamaphovia.

There are many reasons why people would find this undesirable and thay have nothing to do with intollorance.

And this article also doesn't mention the Montreuil judges' rationale behind the decision.

[Woodrow]

It seems that every time Muslims don't get what they want they cry Islamaphovia.

There are many reasons why people would find this undesirable and thay have nothing to do with intollorance.

I will agree that at times possibly even often we holler Islamphobia when it is actually something else.

But in that article a couple of the statements expressed seem to indicate fear of Islam:

"What we want to halt is the Islamization of our country," Patricia Vayssiere, the far-right councilor from Montreuil, told AFP.

Vayssiere, a senior member of the far-right National Republican Mouvement (MNR), added that they see the building of a mosque as encouraging the emergence of Islam as political force in France.

[wilberhum]

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php...9-015639-2869r

Despite a major fund-raising campaign, only €200,000 of the total €1.5 million needed to build the mosque have been raised from the local community made up mostly of Malians, north Africans, Senegalese, and Muslims from the Comoros.

They have been working at this for about 4 years I think. They have raised less than 15% of the funds needed. At that rate it won’t be finished for 30 years. When it goes into use I would guess that the congestion would be horrific.
I don’t know that I would want a 30 years of construction going on in my area followed by massive congestion. I guess that makes me Islamophobic.

[Zman]

And this article also doesn't mention the Montreuil judges' rationale behind the decision.

What is their rationale?

[wilberhum]

I will agree that at times possibly even often we holler Islamphobia when it is actually something else.

But in that article a couple of the statements expressed seem to indicate fear of Islam:

I think one would have to be totally naive to thing that there is no Islamophobia involved.

But when an article presents only one side of a situation, I do get suspicious.
Especially from islamonline.com. I use to read them all the time. But too many deceptive reports stopped me from considering them a reliable source.

Xenophobia exists everywhere, to what extent will very from place to place. How much it has to do with this issue, I don’t know. My research is coming up empty at this time.

[Encolpius]

What is their rationale?

I don't know, that's why I was mentioning that it needed to be put in the article. They could have pointed out some entirely different and unrelated reasons why they agreed that the local authority should have refused the request for funding; the fact that the article doesn't mention their reasoning implies that the views of the rightist commentators quoted were those same reasons given by the judges - and as we know, the French legal establishment views policy arguments in an exceptionally bad light.

[wilberhum]

I don't know, that's why I was mentioning that it needed to be put in the article. They could have pointed out some entirely different and unrelated reasons why they agreed that the local authority should have refused the request for funding; the fact that the article doesn't mention their reasoning implies that the views of the rightist commentators quoted were those same reasons given by the judges - and as we know, the French legal establishment views policy arguments in an exceptionally bad light.

I think that is a really bad assumption. Knowing islamonline.com, they would never post the judges reasons if they didn't support the conclusion they want you to come to.

[Encolpius]

I think that is a really bad assumption. Knowing islamonline.com, they would never post the judges reasons if they didn't support the conclusion they want you to come to.

That's what I was saying, I maybe phrased it a bit wrong. I meant to say that the article implies that the judges' reasoning was the same as that of the commentators even though that may not have been the case. Apologies.

[wilberhum]

This is beginning to smell like 3 day old fish.
I can’t find anything on islamonline or anywhere but Zman’s Blog. :confused:
I guess he must have been at the consul meeting.

[Abdul Fattah]

I think that is a really bad assumption. Knowing islamonline.com, they would never post the judges reasons if they didn't support the conclusion they want you to come to.

Since this is all speculative, this is a form of slander towards Islamonline. Either look up something to back your claims, or remain silent please.

[Muezzin]

Okay, calm down messrs dooster and wilberhum.

[wilberhum]

Since this is all speculative, this is a form of slander towards Islamonline. Either look up something to back your claims, or remain silent please.

What is speculative? Islamonline didn't put up this article or the FACT that Islamonline changes headings to create a bias the way they want it?

[Zman]

I can’t find anything on islamonline or anywhere but Zman’s Blog...

Are you seriousely trying to pass that IslamOnline doesn't carry this article and I fabricated it?

Did you go to the blog, click on the IslamOnline link to access the original article?

Do research the material a little more thoroughly, before you slander people.

Here's the link (I'm not gonna do your work for you anymore. Just remember, slandering and personal attacks can easily become a 2-way street. I do have the right to defend myself):

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

[wilberhum]

[i]
Are you seriousely trying to pass that IslamOnline doesn't carry this article and I fabricated it?

If that is the way you want to read it.

I searched through Islamonline half a dozen different ways and found nothing.
Now you link worked, so thank you.

I'm still perplexed that there is no other reference on any news source or any online search.

[Woodrow]

I must agree with Wilberhum. Although i accept Islamonline as getting their news from Valid sources. It is his right to ask that we try to provide some verification that all members can accept.

This probably originally came from several sources and most likely in French. I think it is only fair we try to provide additional verification or accept the fact that some members will not accept Islamonline as a source.

[Zman]

I must agree with Wilberhum. Although i accept Islamonline as getting their news from Valid sources. It is his right to ask that we try to provide some verification that all members can accept...

The link to the source was already provided, and verification could have been easily performed by him.

The article has been on their front page, all day.

If he had issues about not finding the article, he could have put it in a more diplomatic way, and I would have been more than happy to help him out. Instead, he chose slander...

[doorster]

I must agree with Wilberhum. Although i accept Islamonline as getting their news from Valid sources. It is his right to ask that we try to provide some verification that all members can accept.

This probably originally came from several sources and most likely in French. I think it is only fair we try to provide additional verification or accept the fact that some members will not accept Islamonline as a source.

Original Author is Carole Landry (AFP)



edit:
it still survives at http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070709-015639-2869r