There is talks on the Taliban going on all afghanistant related threads but I have no response
Some feed back people, no?
[PIE]Following is an excerpt from a book by a Jewish American author, A.S. Adler, regarding his research into the Taliban and the media coverage they received. Unlike professional Zionist Islamophobes, such as Daniel Pipes, Adler deflates the media hysteria surrounding the 'evil Taliban' with cool, calm research. He even comes from a religiously Jewish perspective.
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2412[/PIE]
I think the decline of the Taliban is well explained by a Brother from another forum here:
[PIE]from what i understand, the original taliban had noble goals which they were trying to aim for ie to establish the law of Allah in afghanistan. and indeed in the beginning they had the help of Allah with them and had the support of the people.
however as time went by, and more people joined the taliban, not everyone was as sincere as the original organisers of the movement. according to the taliban themselves, only 10% of the original taliban are left. the others had been shaheed. this statement was made about 7 years ago.
as taliban conquered more and more land, more and more people from the conquered areas and armies grew their beards and tied the black turbans around their heads and proclaimed themselves to be taliban. these were the same people who seeked refuge in the communist and shia controlled lands of the north.
as these soldiers grew in numbers and power, they started slowly reverting back to their old ways but under the guise of the taliban. hence the reports of abuse and theft and unjust killing carried out by the taliban were actually being commited by those who only posed as taliban.
but people did not know the difference. they thought these acts were being carried out by the same people who were professing to be their saviours. that is why the people started to turn against the taliban.
this disease was most rampant in the northern areas of taliban controlled afghanistan. two parties had been formed with each of them vieing for control. kabul versus kandahar.
this problem was known to Ameerul mumineen, but as the war had escalated along 4 different fronts, it would have been suicide to tackle the new problem of the munafiqs. but it was also suicide to ignore the new problem as well.
while Mulla Umar was in kandahar, eating from the floor, wearing rags, the munafiqs in kabul were entertaining foreign government officials and forming alliances with them that were not sanctioned by kabul. these munafiq had become so strong that there was no way of tackling the problem without weakening the troops and supply lines for the mujahideen on the frontlines.
aaaaaannyyyyyway.......this explains why most of the so called taliban abandoned the jihad and defected to the kuffar when the american attacked. this is why there is only a small number of mujahideen who are waging a guerilla war from the mountains. inshallah victory will come, the same way victory came against the russians. that took 25 years. maybe this will take as long......... but Allah will test and Allah will give victory.
[/PIE]
peace
There is talks on the Taliban going on all afghanistant related threads but I have no response
Some feed back people, no?
This should supposedly have more validity because the author is Jewish? Sorry, but I don't work with that mindset. The actions of the Taliban before the war have been well documented, and no amount of sugar coating, even from a "Jew" is going to convince me to suddenly give them praise.
Taliban = Terrorist and many other negative terms.
A Jew likes the Taliban, wow.
Bet I can find a Jew that likes Kim Jong-il.
Big deal.
There are many reasons that few countries acknowledged them.
In fact most Islamic countries did not recognize them.
They practice intollorance not Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Although in control of Afghanistan's capital (Kabul) and much or most of the country for five years, the Taliban regime, or "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan," gained diplomatic recognition from only three states: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Human rights abuses denied it United Nations recognition and most world's states, including Iran, India, Turkey, Russia, USA and most Central Asian republics opposed the Taliban and aided its rival (Afghan Northern Alliance).
Keltoi makes valid statements.
Last edited by wilberhum; 11-14-2007 at 10:55 PM.
Well it was expected that some of you would reject it based on the prejudice you have...honestly did any of you actually read the link provided? why don't you enlighten me and refute what it claims based on you "well documented" evidence?
format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
I would be happy to, but you will just dismiss it.
May be you have a sourse that you would concider?
Well besides The Pro-Taliban News Network.
Well this isn't so funney.
Last edited by wilberhum; 11-14-2007 at 11:07 PM.
wilberhum if they had some kind of uniform that indicated they were the taliban i can understand. otherwise how do we know?
How about RAWA?
http://www.rawa.org/index.php
Life for women in southern Afghanistan - heartland of the Taliban who banned girls from schools and women from work during their five-year rule – remains largely unchanged despite progress elsewhere in the country. The current insurgency has made aid and development work in the region particularly difficult.RAWA is the oldest political/social organization of Afghan women struggling for peace, freedom, democracy and women's rights in fundamentalism-blighted Afghanistan since 1977.
New Taliban Rules Target Afghan Teachers
Taliban gunmen who murdered two teachers in eastern Afghanistan were only following their rules: Teachers receive a warning, then a beating, and if they continue to teach must be killed.
How much more do you want?
By pulling your head out of the sand.format_quote Originally Posted by amani
They are, among other things, drug lords.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/wo...=1&oref=slogin
LASHKAR GAH, Afghanistan, Aug. 25 — Afghanistan produced record levels of opium in 2007 for the second straight year, led by a staggering 45 percent increase in the Taliban stronghold of Helmand Province
Last edited by wilberhum; 11-14-2007 at 11:26 PM.
[PIE]What about the oppression of women under the Taliban?
Isn't it true that they deprived women and girls of education and health care, that they deprived women of the opportunity to work and that they forced women to wear a burka in the street?
If you ask almost anyone in the USA what they think the first woman executed in Kabul after the Taliban came to power was executed for, they would probably answer "blasphemy or adultery".
If you ask how long the judicial procedure was -- from the time of the apprehension for the crime to the time of the execution, they would probably answer "a few hours to a few weeks".
If you asked how long after the Taliban came to power in Kabul was the woman executed, they would probably answer "a few days to a few months".
And what is the reality - as reported by the wire services -- ?
The woman was executed for "beating her husband to death with a hammer as he slept."
The woman was executed after a judicial procedure that took about two years-- from the time of the murder to the time of the execution.
The execution took place more than three years after the Taliban came to power in Kabul.
The discrepancy between the reality and the media generated expectation in this case is suggestive of what one might actually find if one were in a position to investigate the other points in detail.
Would anyone imagine from what they "knew" about the Taliban that they opened several centers to train women to be doctors? They did!!
As for the burkas, it appears to be the case that outside of areas like Kabul, where a substantial percentage of women had gotten used to dressing in western fashions, women went on dressing the way they had dressed for decades, if not centuries -- with their bodies, hair and faces more or less covered depending on where they were. In and around the home in the countryside, they wore a simple headscarf. In towns, they were more covered up.
The English speaking, college educated women in Kabul -- who were often not only anti-Taliban but anti-religious -- were the people who were most adversely affected by the Taliban and were the most able to communicate their troubles to the Western Media. These women and their Russian speaking counterparts were not, in so many cases, innocent beleaguered secularists caught in a web of religious oppression. They were, quite often, the very people who had been doing their best for over a decade to undermine the cultural foundations of Islam in Afghanistan. It would have been remarkable, in this light, if the Taliban had just left them all alone.
While the educated women – including so many who had been Russian collaborators -- were very adept at manipulating the media, the very traditional women -- who constitute the overwhelming majority of the women of Afghanistan -- were almost completely ignored.
Thus far, based on a LexisNexis wire service and NYT search: No reported executions for adultery in Kabul or Herat during the Taliban Period; No reported executions for adultery in Kandahar after 1996; No executions for adultery by Taliban in Afghanistan after 10/02/00, A total of 4-6 executions for adultery 1/01/97-9/11/01 by Taliban in all of Afghanistan –equally divided between men and women.[/PIE]
Pointing a gun at Woman and yelling at them with a stick? You trying to say the Taliban is the only ones capable of this? Is this all you have to refute this man? I know people who have done and are capable of doing far worse...format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I would be happy to, but you will just dismiss it.
May be you have a sourse that you would concider?
Well besides The Pro-Taliban News Network.
Well this isn't so funney.
at least you know how to do itformat_quote Originally Posted by wilberhumoh: it's about time you actually did it no?
How about this one for all those that cry bias press.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghanistanwomen1.htm
The Plight of the Muslim Women of Afghanistan under the Taliban
Islam means the submission of humankind to the will of God, not the submission of women to the will of men.
I find it so sad, terrorists yell "Sharia Law" and many Muslims call them great and ignore all they do.format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-RashidPointing a gun at Woman and yelling at them with a stick? You trying to say the Taliban is the only ones capable of this?
Na, many do it. So that makes it OK for the Taliban?
Is this all you have to refute this man? I know people who have done and are capable of doing far worse...
So that makes the Taliban good guys? If they are not the worst of the worst then they are good?
at least you know how to do it
No, I have done it. give it a try, it feels good.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/taleban9.htm
Taliban have "hurt Islam and distorted the reputation of Muslims throughout the world".
Full text of the Saudi Arabian Government's statement on the breaking off of diplomatic relations with the Taleban
IslamForToday.com Tuesday, 25 September, 2001
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia supported, with all its resources, the fraternal Afghan people during their heroic jihad for independence, which made Afghanistan occupy a special place in the hearts of advocates of people's rights to freedom and independence everywhere, until God ordained victory and Afghanistan won independence and freedom.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia regrets that the government of Taleban has exploited Afghanistan's special place not to build ties of fraternity, progress and construction, and not to consolidate the noble meanings represented by Islam, but to turn its territory into a centre for attracting, training and recruiting a number of misled people of all nationalities, especially from the citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, to carry out criminal acts.
These acts contradict all creeds. In addition, the Taleban government continues to refuse to hand over those criminals to be brought to justice.
Despite everything that has happened, the Taleban government is continuing to use its territory to shelter, arm and encourage those criminals to carry out terrorist acts that terrorize safe and innocent people and spread panic and destruction in the world. This has hurt Islam and has distorted the reputation of Muslims throughout the world.
The Taleban government has not heeded the contacts and attempts made by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to persuade it to stop sheltering criminals and terrorists and training and inciting them, and stop turning its territory into a shelter and safe haven for them.
The Taleban government has also not responded to the efforts made in this regard. The latest effort was the contact by His Excellency Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf with the Taleban government.
In the light of this, the government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia announces the severing of all ties with the Taleban government. While announcing this, the government stresses that it continues to side with the Afghan people and support everything that could achieve security, stability and prosperity for Afghanistan.
So you ain't gonna read it with reason and stick to your prejudice? You think I know not what you show? I will again show you part of the article which addresses this:format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhumI find it so sad, terrorists yell "Sharia Law" and many Muslims call them great and ignore all they do.
[PIE]The English speaking, college educated women in Kabul -- who were often not only anti-Taliban but anti-religious -- were the people who were most adversely affected by the Taliban and were the most able to communicate their troubles to the Western Media. These women and their Russian speaking counterparts were not, in so many cases, innocent beleaguered secularists caught in a web of religious oppression. They were, quite often, the very people who had been doing their best for over a decade to undermine the cultural foundations of Islam in Afghanistan. It would have been remarkable, in this light, if the Taliban had just left them all alone.
While the educated women – including so many who had been Russian collaborators -- were very adept at manipulating the media, the very traditional women -- who constitute the overwhelming majority of the women of Afghanistan -- were almost completely ignored.
[/PIE]
Look Wilber, if you can prove this man is false in writing wht he did, then Kudos to you. But you showing me pictures don't cut it. Give me stats and dates to prove this man is wrong, Bada bing bada bang?
I couldn't care less what the Saudi think by the wayformat_quote Originally Posted by wilberhumhttp://www.islamfortoday.com/taleban9.htm
Taliban have "hurt Islam and distorted the reputation of Muslims throughout the world".
Full text of the Saudi Arabian Government's statement on the breaking off of diplomatic relations with the Taleban
IslamForToday.com Tuesday, 25 September, 2001
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia supported, with all its resources, the fraternal Afghan people during their heroic jihad for independence, which made Afghanistan occupy a special place in the hearts of advocates of people's rights to freedom and independence everywhere, until God ordained victory and Afghanistan won independence and freedom.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia regrets that the government of Taleban has exploited Afghanistan's special place not to build ties of fraternity, progress and construction, and not to consolidate the noble meanings represented by Islam, but to turn its territory into a centre for attracting, training and recruiting a number of misled people of all nationalities, especially from the citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, to carry out criminal acts.
These acts contradict all creeds. In addition, the Taleban government continues to refuse to hand over those criminals to be brought to justice.
Despite everything that has happened, the Taleban government is continuing to use its territory to shelter, arm and encourage those criminals to carry out terrorist acts that terrorize safe and innocent people and spread panic and destruction in the world. This has hurt Islam and has distorted the reputation of Muslims throughout the world.
The Taleban government has not heeded the contacts and attempts made by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to persuade it to stop sheltering criminals and terrorists and training and inciting them, and stop turning its territory into a shelter and safe haven for them.
The Taleban government has also not responded to the efforts made in this regard. The latest effort was the contact by His Excellency Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf with the Taleban government.
In the light of this, the government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia announces the severing of all ties with the Taleban government. While announcing this, the government stresses that it continues to side with the Afghan people and support everything that could achieve security, stability and prosperity for Afghanistan.
You wanted input, you got it.format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-RashidLook Wilber, if you can prove this man is false in writing wht he did, then Kudos to you. But you showing me pictures don't cut it. Give me stats and dates to prove this man is wrong, Bada bing bada bang?laying:
You rejected it just like I knew you would.
You want proof? Na, you would look at what I have posted and not just reject it.
Islamfortoday is anti-Islamic? That's an interesting thought.
I did notice that you didn't give me any news source that you would accept.
Why I wonder.
More of I want proof but I reject all that doesn't agree with me.format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-RashidI couldn't care less what the Saudi think by the way
my thoughts on the talibaan
almost any reports on the talibaan come from someone who has an axe to grind - you can pick which axe you want to believe. i think we will never know the truth, partially because of this simple fact.
also there isn't really one truth about them but many.
i think many of the original talibaan were indeed completely sincere. does this make them good? no, it just makes them sincere.
i am not at all sure of the level of their islamic scholarship though i strongly suspect that it was deficient.
i actually see the talibaan themselves as pawns in a larger game. they were largely products of u.s. and saudi funded education as far as i know.
personally, i do not believe that the u.s. cared about talibaan abuses against the afghans at all and that is so much hypocrisy and i find it sickening.
it is true that al-qaeda and the talibaan were very different in goals and strategies.
it is true that the talibaan brought what the afghans wanted the most, in most parts of the country: security. it is also true that outside of kabul, they were not that far out of line with the local people who were very religious and conservative.
depending on who you choose to believe (why choose?), they either irradicated the poppy or it was due to a horrible drought the country suffered that the poppy was wiped out.
that they abused their power is just common sense. that western media demonized them to the hilt is also common sense.
how many executions did they do that weren't reported - who knows?
why the u.s. refused to submit evidence, i do not know. if we really had any, is also unknown. i also don't know why OBL, as a religious man, found it ok to expose the afghans to u.s. bombs to save his own hind parts.
that said, just to be clear - i have no love for the talibaan and the afghans i know also have no love for them.
just an interesting off topic side note - some pashtuns regard themselves as descendants of jews.
No need to hideformat_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
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