DID JESUS CHRIST CLAIM DIVINITY?
One of the most fundamental beliefs of Christianity is the divinity of Jesus Christ. We Muslim respect Jesus Christ. Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh). We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt). We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe. We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh). We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission. We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.
Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity
One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):
(i) "My Father is greater than I." [The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all." [The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…." [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [The Bible, John 5:30]
The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]
(ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." [The Bible, John 17:3]
4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).
Note that when the man called Jesus good, Jesus admonished him instantly. Imagine, the man does not even want to be called good, how can one even think him to be God? I also want to point out that aside from declining that he was good, Jesus Christ also gave a characteristic of God i.e “……. There is none good but one, that is, God…….”. So over here Jesus says
Jesus=Not good God=good
It does not take a genius to conclude that Jesus=not God
NOTE: I just want to make it clear that Muslims do not believe Jesus to be “not good” or bad (God forbid). We believe him to be not just good but one of the greatest messengers of God. I suppose that in this context, the word “good” implies divinity so it is solely for God here.
Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God AMONGST YOU by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." [The Bible, Acts 2:22]
God said that Jesus was chosen amongst the people. Something I must say most Christians will disagree with. Did God chose His son amongst us human beings? Were we all candidates to be God’s son and then He chose Jesus? No. The fact is that it is the definition of a PROPHET that a prophet is chosen among his own people. This verse clearly implies that Jesus was a prophet.
The First Commandment is that God is One
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord." [The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.
In the Gospel according to Mark 13:31-32, Jesus is also reported to have denied having knowledge of when the final hour of this world would be, saying: “Heaven and the earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away, but of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in the heaven nor the Son but the Father.” One of the attributes of God is omniscience, knowledge of all things. Therefore, his denial of knowledge of the Day of Judgement is also a denial of divinity, for one who does not know the time of the final hour cannot possibly be God
“EVIDENCE” FOR JESUS’ DIVINITY
There are a number of verses which have been interpreted by the Catholic and Protestant Churches as evidence for the Divinity of Jesus Christ. However, on close examination of these verses, it becomes evident that, either their wordings are ambiguous, leaving them open to a number of different interpretations, or they are additions not found in the early manuscripts of the Bible. Hence we can say that there is not single unambiguous or a single unequivocal statement of Jesus Christ himself in the Bible where he says that I am God or where he says worship me.
The following are some of the most commonly quoted arguments.
1. The Alpha and Omega
In the Book of Revelation 1, verse 8, it is implied that Jesus said the following about himself: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” These are the attributes of God. Consequently, Jesus, according to early Christians, is here claiming divinity. However, the above-mentioned wording is according to the King James Version. In the Revised Standard Version, biblical scholars corrected the translation and wrote: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” A correction was also made in the New American Bible produced by Catholics. The translation of that verse has been amended to put it in its correct context as follows: “The Lord God says: ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the one who is and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.’ ” With these corrections, it becomes evident that this was a statement of God and not a statement of Prophet Jesus.
2. The Pre-existence of Christ
Another verse commonly used to support the divinity of Jesus is John 8:58: “Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.’ ” This verse is taken to imply that Jesus existed prior to his appearance on earth. The conclusion drawn from it is that Jesus must be God, since his existence predates his birth on earth. However, the concept of the pre-existence of the prophets, and of man in general, exists in both the Old Testament, as well as in the Qur‘aan. Jeremiah described himself in The Book of Jeremiah 1:4-5 as follows: “ 5Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 5 ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.’ ”
Prophet Solomon is reported in Proverbs 8:23-27, to have said, “23Ages ago I was set up at the first, before the beginning of the earth. 24When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water, 25Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth; 26before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world 27When he established the heavens, I was there.”
According to Job 38:4 and 21, God addresses Prophet Job as follows: “4Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding... 21You Know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!”
In the Qur‘aan, Chapter al-A‘raaf, (7):172, God informed that man existed in the spiritual form before the creation of the physical world.
} وَإِذْ أَخَذَ رَبُّكَ مِنْ بَنِي آدَمَ مِنْ ظُهُورِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَأَشْهَدَهُمْ عَلَى أَنْفُسِهِمْ أَلَسْتُ بِرَبِّكُمْ قَالُوا بَلَى شَهِدْنَا أَنْ تَقُولُواْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ إِنَّا كُنَّا عَنْ هَذَا غَافِلِينَ {
“When your Lord gathered all of Aadam’s descendants [before creation] and made them bear witness for themselves, saying: ‘Am I not your Lord?’ They all replied: Yes indeed, we bear witness. [That was] so you could not say on the Day of Judgement: ‘We were unaware of this.’ ”
Consequently, Prophet Jesus’ statement, “Before Abraham was, I am,” cannot be used as evidence of his divinity. Within the context of John 8:54-58, Jesus is purported to have spoken about God’s knowledge of His prophets, which predates the creation of this world.
3. The Son of God
Another of the evidences used for Jesus’ divinity is the application of the title “Son of God” to Jesus. However, there are numerous places in the Old Testament where this title has been given to others.
God called Israel (Prophet Jacob) His “son” when He instructed Prophet Moses to go to Pharaoh in Exodus 4:22-23, “22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is my first-born son, 23and I say to you, ‘Let my son go that he may serve me.’ ” [5]
In 2nd Samuel 8:13-14, God calls Prophet Solomon His son, “13 He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son.”
God promised to make Prophet David His son in Psalms 89:26-27: “26 He shall cry unto me, ‘Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation,’ 27Also I will make him my first-born, higher than the kings of the earth.” [6]
Angels are referred to as “sons of God” in The Book of Job 1:6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.” [7]
In the New Testament, there are many references to “sons of God” other than Jesus. For example, when the author of the Gospel according to Luke listed Jesus’ ancestors back to Adam, he wrote: “The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” [8]
Some claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten [9] Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, “I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’ ”
It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself “Son of God”. [10] Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself “Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called “Son of God”: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’ But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”
Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them “Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God, as a son is to a father. Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their heritage, “son of God” signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union between male and female gods. [11] When the Church cast aside its Hebrew foundations, it adopted the pagan concept of “son of God”, which was entirely different from the Hebrew usage. [12]
Consequently, the use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.” [13]
Likewise, Jesus’ use of the term abba, “dear father”, should be understood similarly. There is a dispute among New Testament scholars as to precisely what abba meant in Jesus’ time and also as to how widely it was in use by other Jewish sects of that era.
For Christians, to think of God as their “heavenly Father” was by no means new, for in the Lord’s prayer they are taught to address God in this same familiar way.
Further more, in John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell his followers: “I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.” Jesus’ reference to God as “my Father and your Father” further emphasizes the distinction between himself and God. Furthermore, by referring to God as “his God”, he left no room for anyone to intelligently claim that he was God.
One with God
Those who claim that Jesus was God, hold that he was not a separate god, but one and the same God incarnate. They draw support for this belief from verse 30 of the Gospel according to John, chapter 10, in which Jesus is reported to have said, “I and the Father are one.” Out of context, this verse does imply Jesus’ divinity. Let us read this verse in context:
Joh:10:23: And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
Joh:10:24: Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh:10:25: Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh:10:26: But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh:10:28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh:10:29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Initially, it says that no man can pluck the sheep i.e his followers out of his hand. Then it says no man can pluck them out of God’s hands. Then it says I and my Father are one, meaning both are one, not physically but one in purpose. Both have the same purpose i.e protecting the sheep. But Christians say that this one is ONE, in all aspects. Well let us read further. In the gospel of John, Chapter 17, verse 21:
Joh:17:21: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Here, Jesus is talking to God, asking him :”that they (i.e disciples) may be one in us (i.e God and Jesus Christ). Here, the same one is used. If I agree that in John 10:30, the “one” used is one in all aspects, then the same “one” is used here. That means that the disciples also have to be gods.
The Christians say that since Jews called him god in the same chapter, he is god. Let us read the chapter further in context
Joh:10:31: Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh:10:32: Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh:10:33: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Christians say that since Jews called him God here, he is God. No muslim has to search for a reply to this allegation, since it has been replied by Jesus himself in the next verse.
Joh:10:34: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law I SAID YE ARE GODS?
What did Jesus mean by that? He is actually quoting book of psalms, 82 :6
Psalms:82:6 I SAID, YE ARE GODS; and all of you are children of the most High.
Here, “I” is the God and “GODS” are the prophet. So in the old testament, the word god is used for a prophet many times. Jesus Christ quoted this verse of Psalms to clarify for them, with a scriptural example well known to them, that he was using the metaphorical language of the prophets which should not be interpreted as ascribing divinity to himself or to other human beings. Jews alleged that : thou, being a man, makest thyself God, so he was practically telling them that it is okay if I say: I and my father are one, since according to psalms, prophets are referred to as gods and I am a prophet.
Further evidence is drawn from verses ten and eleven of the Gospel according to John, chapter 14, where people asked Jesus to show them the Father, and he was supposed to have said: “Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.”
These phrases would imply Jesus’ divinity, if the remainder of the same Gospel is ignored. However, nine verses later, in John 14:20, Jesus is also recorded as saying to his disciples, “In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.” Thus, if Jesus’ statement “I am in the Father and the Father is in me” means that he is God, then so were his disciples. This symbolic statement means oneness of purpose and not oneness of essence.
“In the beginning was the Word”
Perhaps the most commonly quoted ‘evidence’ for Jesus’ divinity is John 1:1&14, “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth...” However, these statements were not made by Jesus Christ, nor were they attributed to him by the author of the Gospel according to John. But let us agree with the Christians and suppose that these verses are authentic.
Joh:1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Hotheos), and the Word was God (Tontheos)
Here, the word is Jesus Christ. In the Greek bible, the first God is HOTHEOS meaning THE GOD. The second god is TONTHEOS meaning a god or a godly person. So here since the word or Jesus is referred to as TONTHEOS, it does not mean that he is god. It means that he is a godly person. But Christians say that TONTHEOS is also GOD. Let us read Exodus 7:1, “And the Lord said unto Moses, ‘See, I have made thee a god (TONTHEOS) to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” Here Moses is referred to as TONTHEOS. If TONTHEOS means the GOD, then Moses should also be God along with Jesus.
An Immaculate Conception
Christians claim that since Jesus had a mother and no father, then his father has to be God. Quran itself answers to this allegation with a beautiful example
“Surely, the example of Jesus, in Allaah’s sight, is like that of Aadam. He created him from dust and said: ‘Be!’ and he was.” Qur’aan, (3):59
For God to create a million Jesus, he can just say BE and it can be done. God does not require a father to make a human being. If I agree with the Christians that Jesus’ father is God since he had no father, then God is a father AND a mother to Adam, since he had neither. So Adam is a double God, something I am sure Christians disagree with.
MIRACLES OF JESUS
Unfortunately, those who claim divinity for Jesus, usually hold up his miracles as evidence. However, other prophets were recorded to have done the same or similar miracles in the Old Testament.
Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fishes. Elisha fed 100 people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44)
Jesus healed lepers. Elisha cured Naaman the leper (II Kings 5:14).
Jesus caused the blind to see. Elisha caused the blind to see (II Kings 6:17&20).
Jesus raised the dead. Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22). So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Even Elisha’s bones could restore the dead (II Kings 13:21).
Jesus walked on water. Moses and his people crossed the dead sea (Exodus 14:22).
There are also texts in the New Testament which confirm that Jesus did not act on his own. Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying: “I can of mine own self do nothing...” and in Luke 11:20, as saying, “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the Kingdom of God is come upon you.” In Acts 2:22, Paul writes: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know...”
I will repeat what I said before. There is no statement of Jesus Christ in the whole Bible where he unequivocally or unambiguously says that I am God or where he says worship me.
Interesting post, Ali. Did you write all that yourself?
It is true that Jesus never said in so many words "I am God" and "Worship me!"
However, looking at Jesus' trial we see that the Jewish scholars and pharisees at the time felt they had enough evidence to have Jesus executed on the grounds of blasphemy.
Their two accusations for his blasphemy were these:
1. Claiming to be God
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.
(Matthew 26:63-66)
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
(John 10: 25-33)
2. Claiming to have the divine power of forgiveness - a power, which in Jewish eyes only God himself has.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
(Luke 5:20-21)
Apart from this account there are several others in the gospels of Jesus forgiving people's sins:
Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
(Matthew 9:2)
Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
(Luke 7:48-50)
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
(Luke 23: 39-43)
Consequently, at the time there were two groups of people:
Those who believed Jesus to be a blasphemer and a fraud
Those who believed Jesus to be the Son of God
Of course there is a third possible belief, one which is helf by Islam.
That is, that the gospel account has been corrupted and falsified - which would really make the entire argument in the OP meaningless ...
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Glo, don't you think god could have made things a bit clearer...? I mean, it seems it takes years of studying the Bible and history to find rather vague proofs of Jesus's divinity..
Islam is a much better and more proper religion in terms of clarity, at least by my standards.
no offence, that's how I've always felt about Christianity, this is one of the main reasons I left it.
Glo, don't you think god could have made things a bit clearer...? I mean, it seems it takes years of studying the Bible and history to find rather vague proofs of Jesus's divinity..
Islam is a much better and more proper religion in terms of clarity, at least by my standards.
no offence, that's how I've always felt about Christianity, this is one of the main reasons I left it.
If only you knew how often I think the same, WTP!
But who knows what God's reasons are ...
I suppose by the very fact that we are human and not God ourselves, we fail to understand God completely. (I am sure that most monotheists reach a point sometime or another, when they have to acknowledge that God as a whole is unfathomable, and we either believe and trust him or we don't ...)
A religion which was perfectly clear from a human perspective would, in my mind, be likely to be of human origin ...
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
This is all fine and dandy. My only issue is that neither parts of the bible were written when Jesus was alive.
How far does one go to trust second hand accounts of an event, when really the witness wasn't even there?
You then come up with problems like these, and the conflicting accounts of the resurrection.
I'm pro-Jesus. Great guy, radical thinker in his time. To come from a society in which the old testament is your moral guide to then say love your neighbour as yourself, that's wonderful. I just can't buy all this stuff in the bible.
This is all fine and dandy. My only issue is that neither parts of the bible were written when Jesus was alive.
How far does one go to trust second hand accounts of an event, when really the witness wasn't even there?
I'm afraid that I am not the best qualified person to make a case for the authenticity of the Bible.
Perhaps somebody else feels better qualified ... if not you will probably find old threads in this section somewhere ...
I'm pro-Jesus. Great guy, radical thinker in his time. To come from a society in which the old testament is your moral guide to then say love your neighbour as yourself, that's wonderful.
Yeah, I can agree with that.
I just can't buy all this stuff in the bible.
Seems you can buy some stuff, but not everything ...
Peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I think I dont understand about muslims is that they know that the NT was written when Jesus was not there but they still pick excerpts from it to justify their agenda. They think their interpretation of scripture is more correct than ours. Gimme a break.
2 Peter 1:19-21
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
As a muslim you want the christian and jewish doctrines to be absolutely perfect and in agreement with Islamic doctrines, but you want to show that Islam is a path which is better or more pleasing to god.
^
I would say it's impossible to use a source which you consider to be unreliable to argue for anything.
You may use parts within the source to demonstrate why you consider it unreliable ... but you then cannot use that very same source to argue in your favour.
If you consider it reliable, use it whenever appropriate.
If you consider it unreliable, leave well alone ...
Just my own opinion, of course.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I would Imagine that Glo's faith isnt based on the intricacies of scripture, more on an interpersonal relationship with God. What God means to her.
A lot of Christians feel this and whilst some scripture cant be answered, I find this idea of putting things in Gods hands more acceptable than fighting tooth and nail to prove that the world is actually flat or that ,if you remove whole sentances and approach them from an illogical angle and ignore hundreds of other references, then the word of God dosnt actually say the world is flat.
One is based on a inner comfort with the power and majesty of God and the other seems based on a wild and desperate defence of the indefencible.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
since both islam and christianity claim to be the "one true religion" - doesn't this mean that in order for your religion to be right, the other must be wrong?
i think so - and if so, there is an inherent problem here.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
`He who is not with me is against me, and he who is not gathering with me, doth scatter.
George Bush 2004?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
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