Just wanted to enquire about the following person in Islamic history : Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
I believe that he was responsible (not soleley, mind) for the disestablishment of the Khilafah in 1924. If he was then are we to take that the founder of an Islamic (or shoud I say pseudo-Islamic) nation is in fact a Munafiqeen.
What is eveyone else's views on this man?
Isnt it also true that he helped to translate the Q'uran into modern day Turkish?
What are the views people hold of him? ( a hero, an anti hero, or a Munafiqeenn who is suffering right now)?
Isnt it also true that he helped to translate the Q'uran into modern day Turkish?
What are the views people hold of him? ( a hero, an anti hero, or a Munafiqeenn who is suffering right now)?
Wsalam
he wanted a translation of Quran so as he could replace it the original in every ritual of the deen, such as salat, prays, everything related to islam.He aimed to brake the link between past and future.So it wasnt a help, it was an attack to islam.
Just wanted to enquire about the following person in Islamic history : Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
I believe that he was responsible (not soleley, mind) for the disestablishment of the Khilafah in 1924. If he was then are we to take that the founder of an Islamic (or shoud I say pseudo-Islamic) nation is in fact a Munafiqeen.
What is eveyone else's views on this man?
Isnt it also true that he helped to translate the Q'uran into modern day Turkish?
What are the views people hold of him? ( a hero, an anti hero, or a Munafiqeenn who is suffering right now)?
Wsalam
Maulana Imran Hosein has a great lecture on Imam Mahdi and The Return Of The Islamic Caliphate. it's in 3 parts and you can download it here:
the basis of the lecture is that Ata-Shirk assisted the British Government in destroying the Islamic Caliphate. it's also a nice video if you can find it.
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
Thank you brother, I just really didnt know much about him.
Apparently the Turkish Community really do love him, and it is an offence to degrade him. Was just wondering in this day and age how can you make an offence of degrading a Muslim (as that is the culturally accepted thing to do). But that was before I found out that he was quite possibly a Munafiq (astaghfirullaah).
A lot of leaders are like that today, but having done some reading this atashirk dude stands out. I mean how can anyone in Turkey not have led a revolution since the time of his death and reject his ideas of governance?
Not solely his fault too...... The Caliphs too had forgotten their responsibilities toward religion.... That's why Turkey become like today.... We did admire Turkey Othmaniah for their stronghold in Islam........
Attaturk, the father of Turkey nationalism..... He adore everything West... But looking to Islam as the source of the people being left in marginal.... That's wrong... Many Muslim leaders today are like him.... Including in my country
Not sure, but I've had heard that there are several movements or Tariket to revive Islamic life again there since the early time of the Cumhuriyet (Republic).... It's a crying shame when some Muslim countries had lost Arabic script for Roman or Western script..... My country too had done the same, losing Arabic script for our national language..... It's not interesting at all and made many youths leaving behind the Islamic identity and thinking that using Arabic script will made them being seen as Arab wannabes while in the reality it's just the same when they adopt Western or Secular theories developed in the West.
what do Turkish people say about this? i think they love him.
hmm.
not all of them.
I admire the Ottoman caliphates but not him.
most just blindly believe in whats written in the books and most just believe what their parents told them.
they have this feeling of betrayal. they believe that ataturk has saved them from their fall and after that Nationalism has taken over their hearts.
oh and He also made the arabic alphabet into the Latin Alphabet wich caused many problems for the turks to understand the Qu'ran etc. now a lots of turks are struggling to understand arabic and to understand the real meanings of the Qu'ran.
but most of them have imaan ill tell you. Their love for the Prophet(saw) and Allah(swt) is something I respect. Its only secularism and nationalism wich made most of them blind.
The problem doesnt lie only in Turkey, Its the whole ummah that became corrupted because of Nationalism.
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
A lot of leaders are like that today, but having done some reading this atashirk dude stands out. I mean how can anyone in Turkey not have led a revolution since the time of his death and reject his ideas of governance?
Are they all happy to accept it?
No, not everyone happy with it.If a political party who dislikes him gets the authority, there is a military coup in Turkey.We have had several military intervention after caliphate went because many of the people arent pleased with the so called revolutions.The situation hasnt changed today.If the current gov. tries to make a counter revolution the military uses everyway to block it.they use media , some state establishments , even they publish declarations on their website.
I admire the Ottomaniah Turks..... Their influence reached South East Asia Muslim Sultanates and they had contributed a lot toward Islamic life development.... Too bad many Muslims were deceived by Orientalist propaganda about Ottomaniah Sultanate and the last Sultans too had been deceived from Islamic teaching because too much pampered in Palace.... The figure like Muhammad al-Fateh and Sultan Murad had shown us how Ottomaniah defended Islam.
Attaturk is a destroyer, not even a Father of Turkey in my opinion.... The father of Turkey is Islam...
From a turkish ppl I know that Kamal Arturk let all the prominent turkish shaikhs go in a ship,wich sale far from the coast,then he told them:,,Those of you who disagrees with my reformation-to jump in the water right now.''
and the imams keep silant and what happened :no hejab,prayer only for the old ppl,legal alcohol,casinos,musik...real modern,,Europe,,
Some Camalist say that the practise to cover with hejaab its a ARABIC tradition,and not from Islam.........
^^read the link, you will understand why it was so important to make a republic of Turkey and the fact that 'disestablishing' the caphilate had to be done.
if it was left to them they would of been crushed and sure enough Turkey, where west meets east, would well have not have any ties towards its ancient culture or with Islam itself. maybe we would of all been speaking english or french or italian by now and maybe become converts to christianity? if the armies were successful in their missions of bringing down the downfall of the system in which Turkey was in.
However, because he wanted to save the people from the sultans who were ruining the country, even if they are muslim or in fact if they were pulled away from their religion by the slightest from the desire of westernized culture cannot surely make ataturk a hypocrit. I think the right idea would always be to save the people, the country from outsiders invading the land. or would everyone rather a state so near to the east converted because of the failed attempt of the 'islamic' caphilate on saving the country and winning the war?
A lot of leaders are like that today, but having done some reading this atashirk dude stands out. I mean how can anyone in Turkey not have led a revolution since the time of his death and reject his ideas of governance?
Are they all happy to accept it?
Let me relate to you a story
after the abolishing of the khalifah there were a few rebellions but one in particular stands out, this became know as the "shaykh Said rebellion" (Turks correct me if I got the name of rebellion wrong)
Anyways it began in the South East of Turkey (Kurdistan) and the people from there decided to ask an influencial shaykh called Said Nursi to support them. They met and when they asked him to join he replied
"Who will you fight"
"attaturk"
"Who will you kill"
"his soldiers"
"Who are his soldiers"
"Are they not Muslims?"
and he told them to go off.
format_quote Originally Posted by malayloveislam
Not solely his fault too...... The Caliphs too had forgotten their responsibilities toward religion.... That's why Turkey become like today.... We did admire Turkey Othmaniah for their stronghold in Islam........
Attaturk, the father of Turkey nationalism..... He adore everything West... But looking to Islam as the source of the people being left in marginal.... That's wrong... Many Muslim leaders today are like him.... Including in my country
I would say that when the Arabs fought for the British against the Ottomans, that it put Ottomans in a tough position.
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaak
what do Turkish people say about this? i think they love him.
Not all, but usually top scholars do not discuss who is in the fire. (They are too busy trying to get people out of the fire to care about dead people's inward state)
format_quote Originally Posted by Haqeeka'
From a turkish ppl I know that Kamal Arturk let all the prominent turkish shaikhs go in a ship,wich sale far from the coast,then he told them:,,Those of you who disagrees with my reformation-to jump in the water right now.''
and the imams keep silant and what happened :no hejab,prayer only for the old ppl,legal alcohol,casinos,musik...real modern,,Europe,,
Some Camalist say that the practise to cover with hejaab its a ARABIC tradition,and not from Islam.........
Somehow I doubt that, I think you will notice there are more hijabi sisters per capita in Turkey than in places like Bulgaria. My Turkish history is bad but I am pretty sure young people were never stopped from going to the mosque.
format_quote Originally Posted by believeByHEART.
well im turkish but im not baised on this view, i look at it with an openmind
^^read the link, you will understand why it was so important to make a republic of Turkey and the fact that 'disestablishing' the caphilate had to be done.
if it was left to them they would of been crushed and sure enough Turkey, where west meets east, would well have not have any ties towards its ancient culture or with Islam itself. maybe we would of all been speaking english or french or italian by now and maybe become converts to christianity? if the armies were successful in their missions of bringing down the downfall of the system in which Turkey was in.
However, because he wanted to save the people from the sultans who were ruining the country, even if they are muslim or in fact if they were pulled away from their religion by the slightest from the desire of westernized culture cannot surely make ataturk a hypocrit. I think the right idea would always be to save the people, the country from outsiders invading the land. or would everyone rather a state so near to the east converted because of the failed attempt of the 'islamic' caphilate on saving the country and winning the war?
wow im lost myself
Yes it had to be done, the oppression that kamal and his cronies inflicted onto Turks would have been blamed on the Deen al Haqq if the khalifate was still around.
BUT the problem with that analysis is that it relies heavily on Turkish nationalist's narrative which frankly has many lies in it.
O my Lord,
if I worship you
from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship you
from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship you
for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face.
aturk helped in destroying The khlaifa - as well as the arabs by rebellng against the Khlaifate and backing the western powers agenda
stupidity and nationalism destroyed the Khalfate
peace
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
I dont know how to make a new thread but i want to know that will khilafa b back?
Salaam
Only Allah swt knows
peace
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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He believed in secularism, and aimed for such a form governance to be in place for Turkey. If that's not borderline kufr, then I don't know what is.
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