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  1. #1
    Scimitar's Avatar
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    Brother into Numerology, please help

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    A Muslim brother on a few forums is posting information related to numerology, here is an example of his posts:

    [Quote removed]

    I am trying to tell him that divining with numbers is haraam but he isnt listening and is continuing to post these ridiculous ramblings all over the net - risking his imaan. He's already admitted that he got into this when jinns were "helping him"... the boy is very lost and in serious denial.

    This is not a study that was undertaken by the Prophet Muhammad pbuh nor the sahabi RA, so this is clearly bidah, and imo, shirk.

    What I need is rulings on this issue to post so he can be clear that what he is doing is totally compromising his deen, and throwing him outside the fold of Islam.

    please help me to bring this brother back on track,

    Scimi

    NOTE: late addition due to a mods wisdom in this matter - I would like to add that the brother is using numerology in relation to words from the Quran and the biblical scriptures, in Egnlish - which is just like "whuht?" he's clearly lost.

    Please provide fatwas, rulings, proofs that this is indeed haraam.

    Your effrots are really appreciated.
    Last edited by Scimitar; 03-27-2013 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Perhaps it's best not to post his material here
    Brother into Numerology, please help


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    IAmZamzam's Avatar
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    Re: Brother into Numerology, please help

    Other people know more than I do here about fatwas and muftis and madhabs and other such things which I personally can hardly even pronounce correctly. But one thing I do know is that the only future that anyone needs to be learning about is Judgment Day, and everything else is details, details, details. Perhaps you should pass that along. It's all I've got off the top of my head.
    | Likes Abz2000 liked this post
    Brother into Numerology, please help

    Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)

  4. #3
    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Brother into Numerology, please help

    As lomg as he stays within the bounds of Islam and doesn't use his numerology to do haram acts - there's no harm in lwtting him do his research - maybe he'll find something interesting.
    It is certain that certain arts exist - and that the jinns use the positions of the cosmos as a clock to let their devotees know the dates of events from the information they steal from on high (intelligence)- it is however not allowed that we go to such astrologers who reject the guidance of Allah and commit haraam acts in order to get the courtship of jinns, (aleister crowley - a good friend of the cia and mi5 (also of ian flemming) is an example of their courtship of like attracted to like, mi5 also seem to have had a lot of interest in such sorcerers and often hired them (notice that both mi5 and the american president use the one eye on the pyramid (ever wondered???.... where'd those kaafirs get that kind of info from? And why occultists are into trigonometry and stellar positioning (astrology) even the pharaohs were at it - or at least their builders were.

    http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic...e-untold-story

    -also see: wow signal
    Like something out of "the matrix"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal
    And check out SETI

    The Prophets appear to have warned us and have told -and hinted at - much that is to come to pass - along with telling us what we should be doing.

    However - in terms of Quran, I don't know what he expects to find in terms of verse numbers since it was compiled and arranged from large to small surahs, with many abrogated verses deducted by the initial khulafaa, and many of the words are also convwrted to Quraishi dialect where there was a difference of opinion as to source dialect.
    One thing I do however believe has a sealed meaning are the initial seemingly incomprehensible letter clusters at the beginnings of many surahs.
    I think that Allah has put something in them which we may possibly find out one day - before the final hour, I can see no other logical reason for giving them to us, so if anyone studies them in obedience to Allah and seeking His good pleasure, and doesn't seek to use them as an excuse to do anything haraam - I would be glad for any lawfully gained information.
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  5. #4
    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Brother into Numerology, please help

    mustafa16
    The Arabs at around the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and Sahaba (RA) used abjad to determine marriage compatibility.
    You almost gave the impression that the Prophet pbuh and sahaba did so .....

    ......the arabs of the time who hadn't come out of ignorance and superstition did such things - the Prophet pbuh's grandfather was taken to the witch of Arabia or Hijaz in order to interpret the divining arrows for the sacrifice which ended with one hundred camels instead of Abdullah, whereas, if they had followed their just sense of reason and intellect and had accepted the guidance of Allah of the time which had been delivered to Arabia, they would have known that it wasn't necessary and actually haraam to sacrifice a child despite the strong feeling of necessity, and that such a trial and vow had been made in the past and had been replaced with the sacrifice of a ram.

    The british and american governments it appears - along with their secularist allies - are still immersed in such superstition to the detriment of themselves and families.

    The actual thing you mention (superstition regarding marriage compatibility) was the practice of the british monarchy not long ago:

    In 1570 Walsingham was appointed as the new ambassador to France. He proceeded to set up his own network of undercover agents in France, Italy, Spain and the Low Countries. The late Cecil Williamson, who worked for British Intelligence during World War II and later ran a witchcraft museum, told this writer that Walsingham often used witches as spies.
    The Mysterious Dr Dee

    One of the famous occultists he is known to have recruited was Queen Elizabeth’s court astrologer and the magical architect of the British Empire, the Welsh magician Dr John Dee. Walsingham was involved in the machinations for the proposed marriage of the Duc d’Anjou and Elizabeth. At the spy master’s personal recommendation, the queen dispatched Dee to France with orders to report back on the progress of the marriage negotiations. The magus travelled to the Duchy of Lorraine and drew up the birth charts of both the Duc and his brother, who was also regarded as a possible husband for the English monarch. Dr Dee, probably influenced by Walsingham, diplomatically reported back to London that the stars suggested a political alliance would be far wiser than matrimony and the queen took his advice.

    From the same article I linked in the above post
    http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic...e-untold-story


    Although God knows what Kurt Hahn, the German spy tasked with keeping abreast of happenings in Britain must've done to manage to be the glue like magnetic teacher of the future consort to the queen of england.....the fruit box bit was a nice touch though - as were the facial and behavioural similarities with the boisterous moses figure in the ten commandments movie..... and the way the court advisers were worried to death about the uncle mountbatten angle......the fact that the queen mother was worried about charles going to hahn's school shows that they probably didn't get the harmony they had hoped for.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-04-2017 at 01:23 AM.
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    Mustafa16's Avatar
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    Re: Brother into Numerology, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    You almost gave the impression that the Prophet pbuh and sahaba did so .....

    ......the arabs of the time who hadn't come out of ignorance and superstition did such things - the Prophet pbuh's grandfather was taken to the witch of Arabia or Hijaz in order to interpret the divining arrows for the sacrifice which ended with one hundred camels instead of Abdullah, whereas, if they had followed their just sense of reason and intellect and had accepted the guidance of Allah of the time which had been delivered to Arabia, they would have known that it wasn't necessary and actually haraam to sacrifice a child despite the strong feeling of necessity, and that such a trial and vow had been made in the past and had been replaced with the sacrifice of a ram.

    The british and american governments it appears - along with their secularist allies - are still immersed in such superstition to the detriment of themselves and families.

    The actual thing you mention (superstition regarding marriage compatibility) was the practice of the british monarchy not long ago:

    In 1570 Walsingham was appointed as the new ambassador to France. He proceeded to set up his own network of undercover agents in France, Italy, Spain and the Low Countries. The late Cecil Williamson, who worked for British Intelligence during World War II and later ran a witchcraft museum, told this writer that Walsingham often used witches as spies.
    The Mysterious Dr Dee

    One of the famous occultists he is known to have recruited was Queen Elizabeth’s court astrologer and the magical architect of the British Empire, the Welsh magician Dr John Dee. Walsingham was involved in the machinations for the proposed marriage of the Duc d’Anjou and Elizabeth. At the spy master’s personal recommendation, the queen dispatched Dee to France with orders to report back on the progress of the marriage negotiations. The magus travelled to the Duchy of Lorraine and drew up the birth charts of both the Duc and his brother, who was also regarded as a possible husband for the English monarch. Dr Dee, probably influenced by Walsingham, diplomatically reported back to London that the stars suggested a political alliance would be far wiser than matrimony and the queen took his advice.

    From the same article I linked in the above post
    http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic...e-untold-story


    Although God knows what Kurt Hahn, the German spy tasked with keeping abreast of happenings in Britain must've done to manage to be the glue like magnetic teacher of the future consort to the queen of england.....the fruit box bit was a nice touch though - as were the facial and behavioural similarities with the boisterous moses figure in the ten commandments movie..... and the way the court advisers were worried to death about the uncle mountbatten angle......the fact that the queen mother was worried about charles going to hahn's school shows that they probably didn't get the harmony they had hoped for.
    predicting the future using astrology and numerology is forbidden, not using it to determine personality. it is haram and shirk to think you know the unseen when only Alllah aza wa jal knows. But personality is not the unseen, and even some aspects of the future can be predicted using personality. and perhaps a basic, vague prediction of the future using numerology and astrology (so vague it can mean anything) is not shirk, but I dont know. but personality is not the unseen because it is hspaed by many things such as one's experience and environment in one's life.

  8. #6
    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Brother into Numerology, please help

    Allah knows best.
    No point connecting abjad marriage compatibility forecasting (horoscope) with the Prophet and the sahbah - they relied directly on Allah for guidance.

    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-05-2017 at 08:42 AM.
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