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    MinAhlilHadeeth's Avatar
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    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'
    Imaam Sayyid Nadheer Hussayn ad-Dahlawee



    Is it permissible to say ‘O Messenger of Allaah’ (يا رسول الله) any where other than in the presence of the Prophet of Allaah’s grave?


    The phrase ‘O Messenger of Allaah’! (يا رسول الله) is used to call upon and invoke the Messenger of Allaah. However, when invoking someone, it is important that the one being called upon is present or else he would not be able to listen to or respond the call. There are some people who believe that the Messenger of Allaah is omnipresent [1] according to their belief, the one that is omnipresent encompasses the knowledge of all things. However, the one that truly encompasses the knowledge of all things is none other than Allaah, the Most High alone, and this is one of His unique attributes. To assign such a unique attribute to anyone other than Allaah is to associate partners with Him, which is the greatest sin one can commit. In his book entitled ‘Miftahul-Quloob’, Mulla Husain Khabbaz[2] has written that:

    ‘To call upon the dead believing that they are omnipresent [as Allaah is with His knowledge], for example to say ‘O Messenger of Allaah’! (يا رسول الله) or ‘O Shaykh Abdul-Qadir Jailaanee! [3]’ etc., then know that this is disbelief. It is for this reason that in the books of [Hanafi] Fiqh[4], it has been narrated that if a person was to conduct a marriage, bear witnessing that Allaah & His Messenger are both his witnesses, then this marriage contract would be considered invalid, whilst the one who conducted this marriage would be considered a disbeliever because of their belief that the Prophet of Allaah knows the knowledge of the unseen.’ Refer to Bahrur-Ra’iq[5] and others.

    I say [Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi] to make a distinction whilst calling upon somebody by saying ‘O so and so!’, whether it be a prophet or anybody else, whether it is whilst sending prayers on the prophet in Salaah or on any other occasion… then this is not feasible because you should only call upon somebody that is present and can hear you, and the Prophet is not omnipresent [as Allaah’s knowledge is omnipresent].With regards to sending prayers upon the Prophet, then this is something that has been established in authentic Hadeeth where the angels convey the prayers that are sent upon him[6]. Therefore the person who calls upon and invokes somebody that is not present is indicating that they believe that the one being called upon is omnipresent and it is this type of belief that has been defined as associating partners with Allaah. Therefore, it is very important that a Muslim abstains from using such words and actions that imply such heretical beliefs i.e. associating partners with Allaah. If somebody was to argue by using the prayer ‘Salaatul-Hajjah[7]’ as a proof and evidence then the answer to that is that at the time when Salaatul-Hajjah was prayed, the Prophet of Allaah was alive and present amongst the believers, but now he is dead and no longer with us. Although the same wording is adopted, it is only said in its narrative form in the past tense, just as one does when he supplicates in the Tashhahud. In his book entitled ‘To attain the blessings of Allaah by explaining the meaning of At-Tahiyyat [Tashhahud], Sheikh Abdul-Huq Muhaddeeth Dehlawi[8] has written:

    ‘That the response to those who argue that in the Tashhahud we send prayers on the Prophet by addressing him in the first person [i.e. saying O Prophet!], although he is not present is as follows: The prayer upon the Prophet in the Tashhahud is in its narrative form in the past tense which occurred during the incident of Miraj. Further, it has been narrated by Imam Bukhari in his Saheeh on the authority of Abdullah ibn Masood who said:

    ‘The messenger of Allaah taught me the Tashhahud [with] my palm between his palms, the way he taught me the Surahs of the Qur’an [which began with the following words]: ‘’All compliments, prayers, and pure words are due to Allaah, Peace be on you, O Prophet…’’ This was while he was among us, but after he passed away, we would say ‘Peace be on the prophet.’[9]

    Therefore, to use the aforementioned words as proof and evidence [is out of context and] is incorrect. And Allaah knows best!

    16th Ramadan 1267 AH,
    Fataawa Nadheeriyah
    Book of Eemaan and Beliefs
    Volume 1 page 159-161.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [1] Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jam’aah do not believe that Allaah is omnipresent. Rather they believe that Allaah’s knowledge is omnipresent [i.e. His knowledge encompasses all things apparent and hidden). Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jam’aah further believe that Allaah, the Most high, is above the seven heavens, above His Arsh, and separate from His creation in a manner that befits His majesty. This is established from the Qur’an & Sunnah, as well as the consensus of the companions of the messenger of Allaah. [TN]

    [2] I could not find a biography of Mulla Husain Khabbaz. After asking Sheikh Uzair Shams Al-Hindee of Makkah, he informed me that in his opinion it may be that Imam Nadhir Husain Dehlawi quoted this reference from a manuscript, and Allaah knows best. [TN]

    [3] Abdul Qadir Jilani [in Arabic] or Gaylani [in Persian] was born in Ramadan 470 AH in the Persian province of Jilan in Iran south of the Caspian Sea. He went to Baghdad to seek knowledge when he was 18 years old, where he studied Aqeedah, Hadeeth and the Hanbali Fiqh with many scholars. Many fabricated books have been attributed to him along with false allegations of his involvement of a Sufi order known as Qadariyyah. What is known is that he was a man of Sunnah and upon the Aqeedah of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, and Allaah knows best. He died in Baghdad in the year 561 AH at the age of 91 years. [TN]

    [4] For example refer to the English translation of Fatawa-I-Qazi Khan, Volume 1, page 34 with Arabic text relating to Islamic Law, by Fakhruddin Hasan bin Mansoor Al-Uzjandi Al-Farghani (d.592 AH), translated and edited into English by Maulvi Muhammad Yusuf Khan Bahadur & Maulvi Wilayat Husain, Published by Kitab Bhavan, New Delhi, India, reprinted 1994. The text is as follows: A man marries a woman citing as witnesses Allaah and His Prophet, the marriage is void, (on the authority of the Prophet himself, on whom be the blessings of Allaah), the Prophet having laid down , that “There is no marriage except when there are witnesses,” whilst every marriage that takes place is witnessed by Allaah: and some of the learned have held that such marriage involves Kufr (blasphemy or infidelism), because it involves belief that the Prophet knows the hidden things, which is blasphemy. [TN]

    [5] Bahrur-Ra’iq’ is an explanation of one of the most eminent books of Hanafi Fiqh known as Kanzud-Daqa’iq by Abul-Barakat Abdullah bin Ahmed bin Mahmood An-Nasafi (d.710 AH). It was authored by Zainul-Abedeen bin Ibrahim bin Nujaim Al-Hanafi who also authored ‘Al-Ashbaa wan-Nadhaair’ (another important book of Hanafi Fiqh). He died in the year 969/970 AH. For more details for his biography refer to Abdul-Hay Lucknowi’s marginal notes on Al-Fawaaid-Al-Bahiyyah, and the publisher’s introduction of Al-Ashbaa wan-Nadhaair page 20-21, Idaratul-Qur’an wa Uloomul-Islamiyyah, Karachi Pakistan, second edition 1424 AH/2004 [TN]. The text of ‘Bahrur’Raiq’ is as follows: “If a person conducting a nikaah was to testify that Allaah and Muhammad were his witnesses, then this person has actually believed that Allaah’s prophet has knowledge of the unseen, thus making him a kaafir” [Bahrur-Ra’iq (5/16)].

    [6] Refer to Saheeh Ibn Hibban Hadeeth no: 2293 and Al-Hakim: 2/421 which has been graded Saheeh [authentic] by Imam Dhahabee. Also refer to Sunan Abee Daud Hadeeth no: 2041 graded Saheeh [authentic] by Imam Ibn Taymiyah. [TN]

    [7] In praying Salaatul-Hajjah, one is required to properly undertake Wudhoo, pray two rak’ahs, and then to single out Allaah alone in supplication [asking only Allaah for whatever one is in need of]. The supplication that was referred to by Imam Nadhir Dehlawi and by which some people take out of context and try to use as proof and evidence for their deviant ways is based on a Hadeeth reported by Uthmân bin Hunaif (may Allaah be pleased with him) where a blind man afflicted with the sickness having lost his eyesight came to the Messenger of Allaah (Allaah bless him & give him peace) requesting him to supplicate to Allaah for him to restore his eyesight. The wording of this supplication is as follows: ‘Oh Allaah, I ask you and turn to you through the intermediary of Muhammad, the prophet of mercy, O Muhammad! I turn to my Rubb through you [supplicating to Him alone] that He may restore [cure] my eyesight. O Allaah! Accept his supplication [intercession] with respect to me, and accept this supplication of mine by giving me [good] health. Reported by Imam Al-Bayhaqi in Dalaail-An-Nubuwwah 6/167-168, Imam Ahmed in his Musnad 4/138, Imam An-Nisa’ee in Amalul-Al-Yawm wal-Lailah 418, while Imam Al-Hakim declared it Saheeh [authentic] according to the conditions of Imam Bukhari & Imam Muslim. Imam At-Tirmidhee has reported another similar narration but with out the wording of ‘pray two rak’ahs’, refer to Sunan Tirmidhee Hadeeth no 3578 declared Saheeh [authentic] by Allamah Albani. An important factor in relation to understanding the aforementioned narration that was mentioned by Allamah Albani and is valuable in obtaining the proper understanding of this Hadeeth is that the blind man sought intermediary through the supplication of the Messenger of Allaah, he did not seek the intermediary of the Messenger of Allaah himself. For further details refer to the book of Allamah Albani At-Tawassul its different types and its rulings. [TN]

    [8] His full name is Shah Abdul-Aziz bin Al-Muhaddeeth Shah Waliulllah bin Abdur Rahim Al-Muhaddeeth Ad-Dehlawi Al-Umaree Al-Farooqee. Born in the year 1159 AH, he started to memorise the Qur’an at the age of five. Among the books he authored are: 1. Fathul-Aziz which is an explanation of the Qur’an in Persian. 2. Majmooah-Fatãwaa 3.Tauhfa Ithnaa-Ashariyyah is a refutation of the Shias, and numerous other books. In the later period of his life he tried to reform the Muslims of India by calling them to follow the Sunnah and abandoning the blind-following of Madhabs. He died on the 7th Shawwal 1239 AH and was buried next to his father. Refer toTaraajim Ulema Ahlil-Hadeeth fil al- Hind page 84-94. [TN]

    [9] Recorded in Saheeh Bukhari, vol. 8, The book of asking permission, Chapter 28, Hadeeth number: 6265 [English Edition, Darussalam] [TN]

    [10] He is Imam Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi. born in the year 1220 AH corresponding to 1805 CE. He left home at the age of 17 in search of Islamic knowledge. He arrived in Delhi on the 13th Rajab 1243 AH where he studied under the most prominent scholars of Islam of that era. From amongst his teachers include Allamah Shah Muhammad Ishaaq Dehlawi (1192 AH-1262 AH) who was the grandson of Allamah Shah Abdul-Aziz Dehlawi. Imam Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi authored over 60 books, from amongst them is his Fatãwaa known as Fatãwaa Nadheeriyyah in 2 volumes, and Mayaarul-Huq on the issue of Taqleed (blind-following a particular Fiqh Madhab). He called to Tahweed and taught Hadeeth and defended the Sunnah all his life. He is considered unanimously amongst Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’aah as one of the Imams of his time who revived Ad-Dawah-Salafiyyah in the Indian subcontinent. He died on the 10th Rajab 1320 AH corresponding to 15th October 1902 CE. Those amongst his senior students include Allamah Shamsul-Huq Adheemabaadee (d. 1329AH), Allamah Abdur-Rahmãn Mubarakpuree (d.1353 AH), Allamah Thanaullah Amritsaree (d.1368 AH.) and many others. Refer to the introduction of Fatãwaa Nadheeriyyah page 26-51 for a detailed biography of the Imam. [TN]

    Fataawaa Nadheeriyah Book of Eeman and Beliefs Volume 1 page 159-161.

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    IbnAbdulHakim's Avatar
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    jazakAllah khair, i read bits
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    -
    My tears testify that i have a heart
    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
    -

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Jazakillah Khair, there's loads of nasheeds and stuff these days with Ya Rasulullah and all aren't there?

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    MinAhlilHadeeth's Avatar
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    Yeah, I always felt uneasy about that.

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    Saying "Ya Muhamamd" clarification

    asalamu laikum

    I could not find the thread that was posted by salafi jihadi about this issue. However i did wish to explain one more matter regarding it

    Phrases such as wa mu'tasimah! wa muhammadah! Were never understood in the Arabic language as call for help. This call simply indicates one's sorrow, at least according to the language of the arabs

    Hence, when the woman cried out wa mu'tasimah! She was declaring her sorrow over herself during al-Mu'tasim's reign.

    When the companions cried out wa muhammadah! They were declaring their sorrow over the Prophet in their fight against Musaylima, and it was also their battle cry.

    Similarly, when al-Mudhaffar Qutuz fought the Tatar at 'Ayn Jalut, the battle cry was wa Islamah! They were declaring their sorrow over Islam and not calling upon Islam for help.

    The Arabs, similarly often utter wa huznah! wa asafah! Meaning: O my grief! O my sorrow!


    and i beleive this to be the underlying reason why when those narrations were brought, particually from kalim at-tayyib, example, isa going to the grave of muhmamd sand saying ya muhammad, it is a calling of sorrow and not calling upon other than Allah which is why the imaams who may have made these narrations sahih did not connect these narrations with "calling upon other than Allah"

    asalamu alaikum

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    ilm.seeker's Avatar
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Wearing a necklace on which it says “Ya Muhammad”

    Question:
    It has become popular among people to wear necklaces on which it says “Ya Muhammad”. What is the ruling on wearing it around one’s neck or hanging it in one’s car?.

    Answer:
    Praise be to Allaah. It is not permissible to write “Ya Muhammad” on the necklace.
    Firstly: because this wording is akin to du’aa’, and it is well known that it is not permissible for anyone to call upon anyone other than Allaah, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “And the mosques are for Allaah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allaah”
    [al-Jinn 72:18]
    “And who is more astray than one who calls on (invokes) besides Allaah, such as will not answer him till the Day of Resurrection, and who are (even) unaware of their calls (invocations) to them?”
    [al-Ahqaaf 46:5]
    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him): “If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help, then seek the help of Allaah.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (2516); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi.
    Secondly: Some of the ignorant wear these necklaces or hang them in their cars in the belief that they bring some benefit and ward off some harm, and they seek blessing from it, thereby falling into shirk, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that wearing amulets is shirk. As narrated by Abu Dawood (3883) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
    It is well known that Islam came to block every route that may lead to shirk.
    Moreover the rights that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has over us are many, and they cannot be fulfilled merely by putting his name on necklaces, medallions and frames.
    The rights of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) over us are that we should believe in him and in what he told us, obey his commands, heed his prohibitions, submit to his rulings and accept them, follow his Sunnah, send blessings upon him ( (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)), defend him and refute those who criticize him and disbelieve in him. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon him. And Allaah knows best.


    Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid.

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    Ruling on saying “Yaa Rasool Allaah” (O Messeger of Allah)


    Question:
    I want to know that can we say Ya Rasool-Allah or not.

    Answer:
    Praise be to Allaah.

    It is not permissible to call upon anyone other than Allaah, whether at times of ease or times of hardship, no matter how great the status of the one who is called upon, even if he is a Prophet who is close to Allaah, or one of the angels, because du’aa’ is a form of worship.

    It was narrated from al-Nu’maan ibn Basheer that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Du’aa’ is worship,” then he recited (interpretation of the meaning): “And your Lord said: ‘Invoke Me [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation). Verily, those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islamic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!’” [Ghaafir 40:60]
    Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2895; Ibn Maajah, 3818; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2370.

    Worship is due only to Allaah; it is not permitted to direct worship towards anyone else. Hence the Muslims are agreed that whoever calls upon anyone other than Allaah is a mushrik (polytheist, one who associates others with Allaah).

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: Whoever regards the angels and Prophets as intermediaries whom he calls upon, puts his trust in and asks them to bring that which will benefit him and ward off harmful things, such as asking them to forgive sins, guide them, relieve them of distress and meet their needs, is a kaafir, according to the consensus of the Muslims. Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 1/124.

    Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The kinds of shirk include asked the dead for one's needs, or seeking their help, or turning to them. This is the essence of shirk. Fath al-Majeed, p. 145

    Hence Allaah has said that there is no one more astray than the one who calls on others besides Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And who is more astray than one who calls on (invokes) besides Allaah, such as will not answer him till the Day of Resurrection, and who are (even) unaware of their calls (invocations) to them?

    And when mankind are gathered (on the Day of Resurrection), they (false deities) will become their enemies and will deny their worshipping” [al-Ahqaaf 46:5-6]

    How can he call on others besides Allaah, when Allaah has told us that they are helpless? Allaah says: “And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).
    If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)” [Faatir 35:13-14]

    Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan Aal al-Shaykh said: Allaah tells us the situation of those who are called upon instead of Him, of the angels, Prophets, idols, etc. in a manner that indicates their helplessness and weakness, and that they lack the abilities that are to be expected in the one who is called upon, such as sovereignty, the ability to hear the call and the ability to respond. Fath al-Majeed, p. 158

    How can the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) be called upon, when Allaah has commanded him to say, “Say: ‘It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path’” [al-Jinn 72:21 – interpretation of the meaning]?

    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help, then seek the help of Allaah.”
    Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2516; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2043.

    Hence there can be no doubt that it is a mistake to praise the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the words
    “O most noble of creation, I have nobody to turn to except you when calamity strikes.”
    The major scholars have denounced this as being wrong.

    Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, in his footnotes to the book Fath al-Majeed, commenting on the poem Burdat al-Busayri from which these words are taken:
    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us, according to the report narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim, ‘Do not praise me as the Christians praised ‘Eesa ibn Maryam, I am the slave of Allaah and His Messenger.’ Rather the way to venerate him and love him is by following his Sunnah and establishing his religion and rejecting all the myths that the ignorant attribute to him. But most of the people do not do this, and they occupy themselves with this exaggeration and praise which leads them to commit major shirk.” Fath al-Majeed, p. 155

    Moreover, it is not known that even a single Sahaabi used to seek the help of the Messenger or call upon the Messenger, neither was that transmitted from any of the respectable scholars. It is only one of the myths of the deviant.

    If something troubles you, then say Yaa Allaah, for He is the One Who answers prayers, relieves distress and controls all things.

    And Allaah knows best.

    Islam Q&A
    Source
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


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    Ibn Abi Ahmed's Avatar
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Sister,

    But what exactly are you trying to prove using those arguments sister? What are the scholars in the fatawa you've linked to trying to prove? Are they trying to prove that it is permissible to call upon other than Allaah, i.e. the Messenger? Or are they saying that it is permissible to say "Ya Muhammad" when it is only being used as simply a way to remember and recall the Messenger, and dua is not being directed to him?

    (This is a genuine, sincere question, with the intention to sincerely understand your position. I've never gotten response to this from those that deem it is permissible to call on the Messenger)

    But, the Prophet Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam is alive in his grave.
    But then the martyrs are alive as well, why not call and make dua to them as well?

    And we know that their being alive, is not like our life. They are alive in the Barzakh, not in this Dunya. If the Messenger was alive in the likes of our current life, why should he not be outside here with us? Why should he be in his grave? Why did Abu Bakr, when the Messenger had passed away, state in his speech to the people: "If you worshiped Muhammad, know that Muhammad is dead, but if you worship Allah, He is Alive and never dies."

    And Allaah's saying: "Indeed, you are to die, and indeed, they are to die." This indicates that he is not alive in our life, as mentioned by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir: "This is one of the Ayat which Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, quoted when the Messenger of Allah died, so that the people would realize that he had really died." and then he, rahimullah, quotes the ayat from Surah Ale Imran: "Muhammad is but a Messenger and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him..." and says: "The meaning of this Ayah is that you will certainly depart this world and be gathered before Allah in the Hereafter."

    So the Messenger is alive, but he is not alive in a life the likeness of our life - because if he was, why should he remain buried?!

    And the Qur'an is full of ayaat, arguments, invitations to the oneness of Allaah in our worship, so why call upon other than Allaah? What hinders people from calling upon Allaah alone?

    The best and most balanced explanation I've read regarding saying 'Ya Muhammad" comes from Shaykh Yasir Qadhi:
    [...]

    Akhi, seriously we need to pause for a while and ask ourselves: what exactly are these people trying to prove? Can any sane Muslim seriously try to legitamize directly asking the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam for something that only Allah should be asked of? Matters like life and death, sustenence, forgiveness, cures, etc... Is this was the Quran tells us to do? Is this why the beloved Rasool was sent: so that HE be taken as an object of worship besides Allah?

    If any person openly proclaims such beleifs, then he has contradicted numerous explicit verses in the Quran, and there is no serious need to show his deviancy. He has placed himself to a level similar to some groups of the Christians.

    All of this needs to be taken into perspective... to say 'Ya Muhammad' does not entail any of the above. There are various types of nidaa (calling out), one of which is to recall the person whom you mention. Numerous are the verses of pre-Islamic poetry in which the poet addresses his beloved; this does not imply that he is beseaching her or making du'aa to her! It is only that he is recalling and remembering her to such a level that it is as if she is in front of him. Again this is an issue which all linguists agree upon - just look up any book of Arabic grammer under the chapter of Nidaa.

    Also, note how Ahl al-Bid'a seek to use vague or inauthetnic hadeeths, which they pick and choose selectively from a wide array of sources (for example, al-Mu'jam al-Kabeer of at-Tabarani is by no stretch of the imagination one of the primary sources of our religion, with all due respect fo course to the great scholar of hadeeth who compiled it), and yet they ignore explicit verses in the Quran, and authentic ahadeeth in the Saheehayn!! Who was it who said, "Do not take my grave as a place of regular visitation, and send salaat upon me wherever you are, for it reaches me..."? Notice, he is in fact stating that we should not regularly visit his grave to say salaam to him, much less make du'aa!! (Again, the prohibition is on FREQUENT visitation, and not the actual visitation). Who was it that said, "Allah's curse is on the Jews and Christians because they took the graves of their prophets as places of worship?" And this is in regards to worshipping ALLAH at these location, how much more the evil when the grave itself becomes the object of worship?!

    Really, there is no need to quote obscure scholars for such blatant shirk: ask this person what exactly is he trying to prove. Is he stating that we can make du'aa to the Rasool and ask him to forgive our sins? If he is, then he should support the Christians in their claims to be people of Paradise, for his actions are no different from theirs.
    Or is he trying to prove the high rank and status of our Rasool, and the many blessings he has been given? If it is the latter, then this is something we all agree with, and has nothing to do with directing acts of worship to him.

    The hadeeth about 'calling out to the servants of Allah' when one is lost is also weak; again this can easily be shown. But even if one is not aware of this ruling, you simply need to ask yourself: is this what our religion is about? Is this the meaning of la ilaah illa Allah...that we direct our du'aas, love, fear, hope, and acts of worship to all of the creation besides Allah? Once a person understands the essence of Islam, the meaning of the kalimah, and the shirk of the Jahiliyyah Arabs, everything will be put in place. All of these 'evidences' that are brought forth simply cannot hold up against the entire message of the Quran. Remember that Allah mentions in the Quran itself that some of its verses are of ambiguous meaning, and those who have a disease in their hearts will try to use these verses in order to prove their falsehood. If this is the case with the Speach of Allah itself, how much more so when we are dealing with ahadeeth whose authenticity might be difficult for the average layman to verify?

    Always go back to the clear verses in the Quran and the ahadeeth that are in the famous works of Islam, and don't allow one obscure text to contradict the very gist of our religion.

    Yasir
    http://forums.almaghrib.org/showpost...5&postcount=24
    Last edited by Ibn Abi Ahmed; 12-09-2007 at 05:09 AM.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    I just went and re-read one of the links, and came across this:

    (13) Huzoor Pur-Noor, Sayiddina Ghous-e-A'zam (radi Allahu anhu), states: "If a person in distress or hardships calls out to me, his hardship will be eradicated. If a person uses my name as his Wasila (medium) and pleads to Allah, his need will be fulfilled."
    Can you please explain this to me? I cannot see anything here except clear blatant shirk.

    And this:

    n the very same book it is recorded that when the Spiritual Master, Hazrat Sayyidi Shamsudeen Hanafi (radi Allahu anhu) was on his death-bed, he called his Mureeds and said: "If anyone has any wish or need, he should come to my grave, I will indeed help him in fulfilling it. Remember between you and me, there is merely a handful of sand, and how can a mere handful of sand be a screen between a Murshid and his Mureed. If the sand does become a screen, then the murshid cannot be perfect a Man (Insaan-e-Kaamil)."
    And:

    Sayyidi Mohammed Farghal (radi Allahu anhu) states: "I am indeed amongst those Saints who can assist you from the grave. If, therefore, you have any wish or need come to my grave and facing me, mention your requirements. I will fulfill them."
    Sister, how do you not see the reality of this?! How many times Allaah has commanded us in the Qur'an to call upon Him alone if we have any wish or need! How many times has the beloved Messenger forbidden us from raising graves and worshiping Allaah at graves?! How much greater can it be if one were to supplicate to other than Allaah at a grave? Yet how can these, as quoted from your link, state that we ought to come to them and their graves and seek help from them?

    Sister, 'Have you considered: if there came to you the punishment of Allah or there came to you the Hour - is it other than Allah you would invoke, if you should be truthful?'

    Sister, "Have you considered: if Allah should take away your hearing and your sight and set a seal upon your hearts, which deity other than Allah could bring them [back] to you?"

    Sister, has not Allaah, the Most High said: "Say, "Indeed, I have been forbidden to worship those you invoke besides Allah." ?!

    How strong are these arguments from the sayings of Allaah from Surah al Ana'am.

    How clear is the Truth from what these people are calling you towards! Please take the time to consider this with a calm mind; are not these people calling you towards seeking aid and help from other than Allaah when the entire Qur'an stands as a witness against them?!

    Consider this saying of Ibn Qayyim from Madarij al-Salikin (1/332):
    “From the forms (of Shirk): Requesting the dead for needs, seeking their aid and turning to them.

    This is the basis for Shirk in the world. This is because the actions of the dead have ceased. He is not able to harm or benefit himself, let alone the one who seeks his aid, or asks him to fulfil his need, or asks him to intercede for him with Allah, for this is from his ignorance with respect to the intercessor and the one interceded for, as has preceded. This is because he (the intercessor) is not able to intercede for him with Allah, except with His permission. Allah did not make his ‘seeking aid’ and petitioning, a cause for Allah’s permission to be granted. The only cause that grants Allah’s permission (for intercession) is the perfection of Tawheed. Yet, this Mushrik comes along, with a cause that only prevents Allah’s permission (for intercession)!”
    I am sincerely looking for a clear explanation of them from you Sister, and it is not to put you or those scholars down. I want to see how what has been stated in that article can be other than a form of shirk. Please explain it to me. May Allaah forgive me if I have offended you.

    May Allaah forgive us and grant us insaaf.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    The only thing I'm saying is that different scholars have different views. And I know that the Moderators of this forum have difficulty in accepting that fact, unfortunately, so I felt as I needed to provide links as to proclaiming Ya RasoolAllaah is not wrong.

    I don't agree with asking people at their graves and stuff, I just disagree with the fact that proclaiming Ya RasoolAllaah is wrong.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'


    what im having trouble 'digesting' is why a matter of Aqeedah (creed/belief) -as opposed to physical worship eg prayer, etc, - would cause such 'deviance'
    amoungst the scholars...
    I don't agree with asking people at their graves and stuff, I just disagree with the fact that proclaiming Ya RasoolAllaah is wrong.
    but diff does it make if its at a grave or otherwise? :sunny:
    Last edited by Ummu Sufyaan; 12-09-2007 at 11:13 AM.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    ^^^ Some nasheeds have 'Ya RasoolAllaah' in them, and I don't find that wrong.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    im in agreement with ubaydullaah here Alhamdulillaah.

    Even if its not shirk to say Ya-Rasulullaah, it most certainly can lead to it, and just for that reason we take the "prevention is better then cure">

    its one of the reasons i dont listen to naats at all anymore...


    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post


    ^^^ Some nasheeds have 'Ya RasoolAllaah' in them, and I don't find that wrong.

    sis, i remeber my mum telling me about it a while back about the types of 'yaa' in arabic and inshallah i havnt misunderstood so i'll touble check with her, and have it posted it up later, inshallah.
    Last edited by Ummu Sufyaan; 12-09-2007 at 12:56 PM.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    Even if its not shirk to say Ya-Rasulullaah, it most certainly can lead to it, and just for that reason we take the "prevention is better then cure">
    I don't think it can. Only the most 'extreme' people take it to Shirk.

    sis, i remeber my mum telling me about it a while back about the types of 'yaa' in arabic and inshallah i havnt misunderstood so i'll touble check with her, and have it posted it up later, inshallah.
    Jazaak Allaah Khayr.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post


    The only thing I'm saying is that different scholars have different views. And I know that the Moderators of this forum have difficulty in accepting that fact, unfortunately, so I felt as I needed to provide links as to proclaiming Ya RasoolAllaah is not wrong.


    May Allah reward you for your sincerity.

    I still do hope I will get an answer to my questions and that you won't avoid them.

    I really want to know why the scholars you are linking to are turning this issue into something that is causing separation amongst the Muslims? What do they exactly mean when they are saying it's permissible? They have already quoted numerous quotations in their Fatwa that shows that they hold it permissible to seek aid from other than Allaah, how can you be sure that their intended meaning is not the same for 'Ya Muhammad'?!

    If it is the same meaning, then this no longer remains an issue where there is difference amongst the scholars.

    I don't agree with asking people at their graves and stuff, I just disagree with the fact that proclaiming Ya RasoolAllaah is wrong.
    Then please explain to me why one of the links you've linked to is promoting exactly that (seeking aid from graves)? And on top of that, why are you taking your religion from them after knowing this?! These people do not realize how similar what they are calling to is to the belief of the Catholics! I really do hope that you do not believe as true the likes of what I've quoted in my previous post.

    Regarding this, as it is a matter of Tawheed and Shirk, scholars cannot have different views. How can one thing be from shirk to one person, and then be from Tawheed to another?! And then we label those who consider it shirk as 'extreme'?

    I don't think it can. Only the most 'extreme' people take it to Shirk.
    This isn't something (simply saying 'Ya Muhammad' )that is black and white. It isn't always shirk, and sometimes it is shirk. Please re-read what I quoted from Yasir Qadhi, and he explains when it comes under shirk and when it doesn't.

    It is very important that we become very clear on these matters because a certain slip can make us fall unknowingly into shirk. And shirk is a very great danger, so much so, that Ibrahim has made Dua' to Allaah to protect him from it. Allaah's saying: "And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) said: "O my Lord! Make this city (Makkah) one of peace and security, and keep me and my sons away from worshipping idols." and the Dua' that Abu Bakr used to make: "‘O Allaah, I take refuge in You lest I should commit shirk with You knowingly and I seek Your forgiveness for what I do unknowingly.’"

    When the Khaleel of Allaah was making Dua' to be protected from shirk, and the best man after the Prophets was making the same Dua', how then can we not fear falling into it? How then can some people turn this issue into such a trivial one?
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    Look I'm not a scholar, so I don't want to go into a lot of detail, coz there are some things that I don't even know.

    So all I'm going to say is Allaahu A'alim.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post


    Look I'm not a scholar, so I don't want to go into a lot of detail, coz there are some things that I don't even know.

    So all I'm going to say is Allaahu A'alim.


    I am not asking you to go into detail nor am I seeking an argument with you or debate; these are basic issues of our religion. These are from the most fundamental matters of our religion, every Muslim is required to know Tawheed - that is our core belief. Our salah, dua, every act of worship revolves around this belief, how then can he remain in the dark about it? This isn't a matter of Fiqh where difference of opinion are allowed and open, this is from Aqeedah, where differences cannot appear in major issues such as this. Every Muslim ought to know what he believes in and why. How can we just believe in whatever and then asked about Tawheed and we say "Allaahu Alam"?!
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah

    sis if you say it without the intention of callin upon the prophet, then why say it at all lol?! ok if you wanna say it to rememba him then thats up to you, but if scholars think it can lead to bad stuff and they have proof for it, (ie examples from extremists) then just to prevent that dont you think its even noble to avoid it?!


    Assalamu Alaikum
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'




    I think i get what sis Mujahida's saying, like saying Ya RasulAllah in of itself isn't shirk (Depending on the intention.)


    I think the only big problem that we have in the ummah today is that most of us are ignorant, and listening to the naats which have these Ya Rasulullah themes to them - they have gone extremer and extremer, to the extent that now they actually DO have lyrics which include asking the Messenger of Allah for help and aid.

    (If you're in doubt, switch to QTV and see the adverts where they advertise the new naats. There's even a new one called Ya Rasulullah Madad [Oh Messenger of Allah, help me.] And then theres the common ones of asking the Messenger of Allah to call them, invite them to Madinah [with Allah's name being used as a beat in the background.]


    There's even a new one by Owais Qadri (i think) with the lyrics of 'if i had the permission, i would want to prostrate to you.' Yeah, i know that if it was permissible, there would be nothing wrong with prostrating to Allah's Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi waSalam) - but it just makes you think of the mindset of these lyrics, why do this if you know its clearly forbidden? Why are you willing to go towards the more controversial areas when the Messenger of Allah has forbidden it already? Won't he love you more if you obey him instead of draw people to something which is forbidden by him?



    Now if saying Ya Rasulullah wasn't something controversial in the past, it truly is today - especially if you hear the lyrics of these urdu naats. And i know for sure without a doubt, because lately theres been a huge uprise in this.


    Anyway, just to finally explain how the companions understood;
    "And the places of worship are for Allah (alone): So invoke [tad'u]* not any one along with Allah;

    [Qur'an Surah Jinn 72: 18]




    Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I invoke [ad'u]* only my Lord (Allah Alone), and I associate none as partners along with Him."

    Say: "It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path."

    [Qur'an Surah Jinn 72: 20-21]


    * ad'u - from the root word du'a (meaning to: invoke, to pray to etc.)




    And in
    Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123:

    Narrated Anas:

    Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.



    Remember that 'Umar ibn Al Khattaab was one of the greatest companions of the Messenger of Allah, the second best man after the Prophets. Yet even these companions understood that we do not pray to anyone other than Allah. This hadith which is in Sahih Al Bukhari is clear and explicit (unlike many others which may be weak, or atleast the scholars have a difference of opinion on their authenticity), and it shows that now that the Messenger of Allah has passed away, if we want to ask for rain - we can ask a pious person from the ahlel bayt (people who are descendants of the Prophet) who is in this world to ask for rain on our behalf.





    And Allah knows best.
    Last edited by - Qatada -; 12-09-2007 at 05:20 PM.


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