× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 2 of 2 First 1 2
Results 21 to 27 of 27 visibility 8406

The Non-Believers

  1. #1
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    Full Member Array oceanbreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    31
    Threads
    10
    Reputation
    5
    Rep Power
    32
    Rep Ratio
    1
    Likes Ratio
    23

    The Non-Believers (OP)


    I have been trying to find direction on my spiritual path for some time now. I've been drawn to Islam, but there is one issue that has kept me from taking the Shahadah. It says explicitly in the Quran that people who die as non-believers or who die having attributed partners to Allah without repenting will be sent to hell, and they will be tortured in unimaginable pain for eternity.

    Perhaps it's a carryover from my Christian upbringing, but I have always believed that God is pure love. To me, the idea that people who have done terrible things will be punished makes sense, but the idea that God would send most of the world's population to burn in hell forever merely because they chose the wrong religion is not in keeping with a loving God. I have tried to understand this and I simply do not. Yes, it is said that God knows what is truly in our hearts and that He knows best, but then wouldn't He understand why people chose another religion and tried to live a life of goodness and peace? What about people like Gandhi who practiced compassion and nonviolence? What about people who genuinely care for helping the poor? Are they all really doomed?

    I don't want to offend anyone. I really am just trying to understand this...

  2. #21
    AbdurRahman.'s Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    697
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    25
    Likes Ratio
    79

    Re: The Non-Believers

    Report bad ads?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze View Post
    I am still trying to find the truth. There are many things I love about Islam, but this is the one issue that I have had trouble comprehending, as it does not seem merciful to me to send good and kind people to burn forever. But I am trying to keep an open mind on the issue.


    [/COLOR]

    I mentioned Gandhi because he is celebrated for being a powerful advocate for peace, love and tolerance. He would have rather died than defend himself with violence and he worked to bring people together. Yet he was primarily Hindu, though he appreciated the tenets of other religions including Islam. I use him as an example to ask how God could send such an amazing person to hell just for not being Muslim. I did not mention Jesus because I understand that Jesus is considered to be a great prophet in Islam and thus would not be sent to hell.




    All right then, please enlighten me. Do you mean to tell me that God doesn't love us all?




    Thank you for this. I'm still not sure how I feel, but your answer is clear to me.
    The highest evil is to deny one's Creator and sustainer and reject Gods guidance hence this can never be forgiven and for this a desbeliever remains in hell forever

    If he's been a good and kind person than he gets his reward for that on earth (He gets for whatever benefits he did it for) but since he didn't do it for God, he doesn't get any hereafter reward from God.
    chat Quote

  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #22
    oceanbreeze's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    31
    Threads
    10
    Rep Power
    32
    Rep Ratio
    1
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: The Non-Believers

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    Well what does christianity say about non believers? You must have some sort of previous insight into it.

    Maybe you could share it with us.


    Imo most people have a hard time grasping the concept because its creation, method and reasoning are not the same as those things we understand.

    How can love overcome violence, bigotry, hypocrisy, inequality and so many other abominable things?

    And if it can, is it considered a weapon?

    ...not so clear cut is it?

    Totally nothing to do with your question but rather a personal worry regarding what we do and what we claim to do.
    Well, most sects of Christianity affirm that only those who accept Jesus as their lord and savior will go to heaven, the non-believers going to hell for eternity. My parents however taught me that the notion of non-believers going to hell because they disagree with my traditions is judgmental and not loving. I have met many Christians who believe if you live in a way God/Jesus would approve of, you will go to heaven.

    The Christian concept of hellfire clashing with the love of God is what largely kept me from fully embracing that religion. And so I've drifted and now I'm at the point where I'm questioning everything I've believed because what I've done isn't working. I have always believed though that love and kindness do in the end overcome hatred and bigotry, though it's obviously not a quick fix as the world is a mess. I don't think love can be a weapon because then it would not be love...

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
    Ok I see where you're coming from

    The connection that you have with your Lord cannot be given to you by anyone else nor can it be taken away. The journey that you make to get to Him is not one that anyone else can do for you. Now if you reflect on every thought you've every had, and every action/choice you've ever taken, and the influence you've had in the lives of others, and the influence you've allowed others to have on you, you would never be able to name them or even remember them all even though you've experienced it all first hand. But everything that makes you who you are is known to Allah even if it is concealed in your heart of hearts.

    So in the grand scheme of things, Allah knows you better than you know yourself, and it's the same for every single creature (not just humans) created. So unlike the justice system of this world which is limited to and at the mercy of to fallible human beings judging other human beings, you are getting a fair judgment based by the ONLY one who knows EXACTLY who you are. Allah takes into account everything that you are: your intentions/sincerity, your choices, your deeds, your life, etc. Nothing can be hidden from Him. With that being understood, you have to believe that Allah is the All-knowing and Most Just because of these facts. Infact one of His attributes Al-Hakam (the impartial judge), so there’s absolutely no way that you or anyone will be judged unjustly. If you can feel bad for a person without even knowing everything about him, imagine how much love Allah has for His Creation. It is more than you and I could ever imagine.

    Now, what's it mean then to "worship Allah?" You said that you thought the purpose of life is to experience it, learn, and spread love. Well regardless of what you believe, I'd say everyone is doing that, even the most evil of people. We are all experiencing life because well, we are living; We are learning because that is part of our nature; and spreading love, well I don't think there is anyone who is incapable of loving unless they legitimately have a mental disorder. I consider this all to be passive living, or just doing what is in our nature. As Muslims however, we know we will be accountable for every action that we do because nothing can be hidden. Whereas someone who does not believe in God or His punishment believes he can live and die without any divine repercussions. Islam is our way of life. Allah comes before everything else in this world, before our desires, before our families, before everything. You said that you believe that good people will go to paradise, but by which standards are you considering someone to be a good/bad person? You only know a fraction of who they are, and that fraction is only based on a few experiences with that person, you know nothing about who they are in secret, how or what they are thinking, how they feel, their past or their future, etc. Your judgement of them is based on whether or not they make you and others happy or how they serve you, but if they make you happy it also doesn’t mean that what they do around you is right. Therefore we have to look at what Islam defines as good or bad, right or wrong. All of our actions are based on these standards, and everything we do must be done for His sake, not just because we are passively living and doing something good simply because it makes us feel good. Since we will be judged by Him, I think it is only fair to say that we should look at His laws. In Islam if we do something evil or if we sin, we have to rectify based on how Allah tells us to rectify it, seek repentance for it from Allah and those we've harmed the way that Allah says the repentance should be made, and never repeat the action. We don’t wait to die to ask for Allah’s mercy, rather we are constantly aware that we err and sin and we must seek Him and repent before the day of judgement.

    A person can be good based solely on society’s standards. People do wrong and I hear them often saying "Well why is it wrong if I'm not hurting anyone else?" we forget that besides our physical makeup, we also have minds and souls that will meet Allah. What we do to ourselves affects our souls and it affects the minds and souls of others even if it is not physically harming us. We don’t ask about what the relationship with our Lord should be like. How do we rectified our image in front of our Lord?? What deeds will we be meeting Him with? When everything you do is done through the intention of pleasing Allah first, then your life starts to change. You become more patient, you are more empathetic, your time is used more wisely, you avoid company and actions that harm you or will displease your Lord, you become more accountable for your actions, etc. The difference between believing in Allah and doing something good and just doing something good without that belief, is how it affects your heart and your soul. You know that this deed does not just stop, it is seen by Allah and it is taken into account and Allah’s love for you increases because you didn’t just do it to make yourself feel good but for a purpose much greater than that. You are preparing your soul to meet Him in the end by how you live your life. If you've prepared nothing except empty apologies, then you're pretty much bankrupt. I've written too much, but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say May Allah guide you to Him without difficulty in a way that is clear and special to you.


    Thank you for this, I think I understand. It does make sense to me that doing good for a higher purpose like God would change you profoundly.

    chat Quote

  5. #23
    M.I.A.'s Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,014
    Threads
    19
    Rep Power
    115
    Rep Ratio
    25
    Likes Ratio
    26

    Re: The Non-Believers

    what I've done isn't working.
    ..I don't know what you mean by that.
    chat Quote

  6. #24
    oceanbreeze's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    31
    Threads
    10
    Rep Power
    32
    Rep Ratio
    1
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: The Non-Believers

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    ..I don't know what you mean by that.
    What I mean is the religious practice I’ve been following up until now does not seem to satisfy me spiritually. As in I feel disconnected from God
    chat Quote

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #25
    M.I.A.'s Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,014
    Threads
    19
    Rep Power
    115
    Rep Ratio
    25
    Likes Ratio
    26

    Re: The Non-Believers

    format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze View Post
    What I mean is the religious practice I’ve been following up until now does not seem to satisfy me spiritually. As in I feel disconnected from God

    weeell... maybe thats not too bad.

    you know, if hes mad at you all the time it would be insufferable.

    like star trek the final frontier or something.

    Sorry,

    Pray more I suppose.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 03-25-2019 at 05:29 PM.
    chat Quote

  9. #26
    oceanbreeze's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    31
    Threads
    10
    Rep Power
    32
    Rep Ratio
    1
    Likes Ratio
    23

    Re: The Non-Believers

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    weeell... maybe thats not too bad.

    you know, if hes mad at you all the time it would be insufferable.

    like star trek the final frontier or something.

    Sorry,

    Pray more I suppose.
    I don’t feel like God is mad at me...I hope He isn’t

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way I appreciate your Star Trek reference haha. I too would not worship a being like in the Final Frontier
    chat Quote

  10. #27
    M.I.A.'s Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,014
    Threads
    19
    Rep Power
    115
    Rep Ratio
    25
    Likes Ratio
    26

    Re: The Non-Believers

    format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze View Post
    I don’t feel like God is mad at me...I hope He isn’t

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way I appreciate your Star Trek reference haha. I too would not worship a being like in the Final Frontier
    Yeah, I don't it's about worshipping such an entity..

    More about making the right choices and following a path that avoids such a fate.

    It's all we can do really..

    Although the crew of the enterprise are written with such conviction.

    It's not how it is but do you know anything else?


    ...most people should just settle for being written well.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 03-26-2019 at 12:24 AM.
    chat Quote


  11. Hide
Page 2 of 2 First 1 2
Hey there! The Non-Believers Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. The Non-Believers
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-12-2019, 10:47 AM
  2. non believers where do they go?
    By Marina-Aisha in forum The Hereafter
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-30-2012, 08:46 AM
  3. Only they are the believers.
    By Tawangar in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-05-2012, 08:29 AM
  4. Are We Truly Believers?
    By Protected_Diamond in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-13-2007, 01:08 PM
  5. Are We Truly Believers?
    By DaSangarTalib in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-12-2006, 10:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create