Which country is best to reside in?

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

^^ A good point too. So better to run (and move away from your home)? Or better to stay and fight back (not literally against 3 armed officers but the public opinions)?

Home is where peace and freedom is, not oppression.

Even the Prophet(saw) and his followers left to a Muslim friendly place (madeenah) from an oppressive society (makkah).


Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination. [4.97]

It just depends on what the person is looking for.
My utopia is another ones dystopia.

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

And why we should to be so worry if someone hates our religion or not? Life is a test and sometimes we just have to face troubles when practicing our religion.

But would you live in a part of China where if you do a ramadan fast, you are imprisoned?

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

You make general conclusion based only on sample that are too small. If your sample are only people who spend their days by sitting beside the road without do regular job, indeed, mostly of them do not perform salah. But if you take sample from other communities like workers or vendors in marketplace, then the result would be very different.

well, they are.. IT practicioner, enterpreneur,.. though most of them work in tourism industry.
but i did state that, it just my own generalization..

format_quote Originally Posted by aaj

... a decent Muslim country where living standards aren't awful ...

I live in the second-poorest country in Southeast Asia. Since it does not cost much time to investigate ways NOT to be dependent on the local market, living standards have little to do with the place where you live. It has much more to do with the validity of your investigations and your own ability to organize your trade options. It is true that the locals have relatively limited intellectual ability to arrange their own options, but nothing would stop them, if they really wanted to. Seriously, I would not make one more dollar by moving to another country. I would probably just spend more for the same lifestyle.

format_quote Originally Posted by aaj

... and corruption is out the wazoo ...

Lots of people claim that the country that I have picked to live in, would be corrupt. To me, it just means that you always have to option to settle with this government by paying them off, if ever need be. I have had to do that twice in 14 years for very small amounts. In that sense, I do not consider "corruption" to be a problem.

My biggest problem is that the local Muslims don't speak English, while I don't want to use the local dialect of the kafir majority here to discuss anything serious ...

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm Abed

You didnt include Malaysia?

Oh yes need to look into that. Sounds exciting . Do you have big plans to travel somewhere?

For everyone on the thread read this beautiful poem by Imam Shafi:

The Benefits in Travelling

تغرب عن الأوطان في طلب العلى *** وسافر ففي الأسفار خمس فوائد
Leave your country in search of loftiness
And travel! For in travel there are 5 benefits,

تفرج هم واكتساب معيشة *** وعلم وآداب وصحبة ماجد
Relief of adversity and earning of livelihood
And knowledge and etiquettes and noble companionship

فإن قيل في الأسفار ذل ومحنة *** وقطع الفيافي وارتكاب الشدائد
If it is said that travelling brings humiliation and difficulty
And long journeys across deserts and toil and trouble,

فموت الفتى خير له من قيامه *** بدار هوان بين واش وحاسد
Then death is better for a person than him remaining
In a humiliating land between traitors and enviers

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

Tunisia... that's where i'd go.

I have met quite a few Algerians, some even here, and I get along really well with them. They usually also speak French. So, that also makes things easier. Therefore, I have always been interested in the cities of Algers, Constantine, or Oran, but in my impression, the internet may not work that well there.

I also either need a local bitcoin market, or else, as a backup, I would prefer to also have ATMs around that can handle my Taiwanese/Hong Kong Mastercard. I increasingly triangulate over Chinese financial systems to avoid obnoxious interferences that you can expect from western payment systems. So, I would prefer to be able to cash out with Alipay or Unionpay too, as an alternative to Mastercard. I still need to test drive all of that, though.

Nothing beats having a local bitcoin exchange market, though, and avoid the riba/interest-infested fiat banking system altogether. Unfortunately, nobody seems to be trading peer-to-peer in Algiers: https://localbitcoins.com/instant-bitcoins. The place nearest by Algiers where you can trade, is Spain. No support for Chinese Alipay or Unionpay either. Not even support for Russian payeer or webmoney. If they are going to force me to transact over New York again (utterly detestable!), just to draw cash out of their ATMs, I am not such a fan anymore.

Any country that forces me to triangulate over New York for my ATM cash out needs, is turning into a no-go zone for me. If I see the words "New York" in conjunction with "bank" in one sentence, then I do not know to know what the question is, because the answer is "no". How long will I have to keep suffering the indignity of having American "correspondent banks" asking me obnoxious questions about why I want to do what with my own money?

The Middle East is a total disaster in that respect: it is full of American payment systems. I would agree to Chinese or Russian, but they don't support that. They don't do bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies either. That area is one large American financial colony, with the Americans telling them what to do. I have never seen that kind of slaves before ...

format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft

I have met quite a few Algerians, some even here, and I get along really well with them. They usually also speak French. So, that also makes things easier. Therefore, I have always been interested in the cities of Algers, Constantine, or Oran, but in my impression, the internet may not work that well there.

I also either need a local bitcoin market, or else, as a backup, I would prefer to also have ATMs around that can handle my Taiwanese/Hong Kong Mastercard. I increasingly triangulate over Chinese financial systems to avoid obnoxious interferences that you can expect from western payment systems. So, I would prefer to be able to cash out with Alipay or Unionpay too, as an alternative to Mastercard. I still need to test drive all of that, though.

Nothing beats having a local bitcoin exchange market, though, and avoid the riba/interest-infested fiat banking system altogether. Unfortunately, nobody seems to be trading peer-to-peer in Algiers: https://localbitcoins.com/instant-bitcoins. The place nearest by Algiers where you can trade, is Spain. No support for Chinese Alipay or Unionpay either. Not even support for Russian payeer or webmoney. If they are going to force me to transact over New York again (utterly detestable!), just to draw cash out of their ATMs, I am not such a fan anymore.

Any country that forces me to triangulate over New York for my ATM cash out needs, is turning into a no-go zone for me. If I see the words "New York" in conjunction with "bank" in one sentence, then I do not know to know what the question is, because the answer is "no". How long will I have to keep suffering the indignity of having American "correspondent banks" asking me obnoxious questions about why I want to do what with my own money?

The Middle East is a total disaster in that respect: it is full of American payment systems. I would agree to Chinese or Russian, but they don't support that. They don't do bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies either. That area is one large American financial colony, with the Americans telling them what to do. I have never seen that kind of slaves before ...

lol, i never thought i would found a darkweb explorer here

anyway i heard banks in KSA are really free of riba.. as you know many sharia banks only change the label of 'interest' with *insert cool islamic-like phrase here* but contently they are similar.

format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft

Well, with my staunchly anti-Statist views, I find more like-minded people on the darknet than on the clearnet, and certainly than in the real world. A lot of people do not understand anti-Statism, actually. In Islamic terms, it would quite much map to a deep resentment for man-made law. Still, a good number of anti-Statists also reject Divine Law, but I disagree with them about that. Since there shall always be a Law, we could as well settle on Divine Law. My personal belief is that alternatives always degenerate and ultimately become unworkable (=contradictory), and while they collapse, they will create increasingly large amounts of chaos (=fitna).

I personally also believe that fitna is just around the corner now. Since it is coming anyway, we could as well embrace it, and benefit from it. That is why I am always maximally long on anti-fragile assets (which thrive in chaos) such as bitcoin and in theory also gold, but I have not yet found a solution to protect property rights over gold stocks in the presence of social breakdown. I believe that gold will just end up being detected and stolen, and is therefore not necessarily a valid anti-fragile asset, unless you are really well organized to defend your property rights. But then again, property rights are just a tool. They are not a goal in themselves. Hence, if I can avoid the struggle to defend property rights, I will.

Ha! But the currency itself is already riba/interest-infested, irrespective of you borrowing or lending it against interest/riba. The fiat money creation process invariably occurs through the emission of riba/interest-infested loans. Hence, it is not enough to refrain from lending/borrowing against riba/interest for your money to be truly riba/interest-free. Your money must NOT be have been created during a riba/interest-generating process. Hence it is the fiat money itself that is haraam/impermissible.

In other words, Islamic riba/interest-free banking is not possible in the context of a fiat currency, such as the dollar, the euro, the pound, or any other centrally-emitted paper currency. If you want to come clean of being involved in riba/interest practices, you must maximally avoid the use of these fiat currencies. This is what you can derive directly from ancient Jewish scriptures about fiat currencies of which the very origin is riba/interest:

Deuteronomy 23:19: "You shall not bring the fee of a w.h.o.r.e or the price of a dog into the house of the Lord your God in fulfillment of any vow."
Micah 1:7, "For they were amassed from w.h.o.r.e.s' fees and they shall become w.h.o.r.e.s' fees again."

allow me to ask you some questions on the pm

speaking of interest..

It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah said: "There will come a time when there will be no one left who does not consume Riba, and whoever does not consume it will nevertheless be affected by residue." (Sunan Annasa'i 4460 )


The Prophet said: "Riba has seventy three segments, the least serious being equivalent to a man committing adultery with his own mother." (Ahmad & Al-Baihaqi in Syu'abul Iman)

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "This night I dreamt that two men came and took me to a Holy land whence we proceeded on till we reached a river of blood, where a man was standing, and on its bank was standing another man with stones in his hands. The man in the middle of the river tried to come out, but the other threw a stone in his mouth and forced him to go back to his original place. So, whenever he tried to come out, the other man would throw a stone in his mouth and force him to go back to his former place. I asked, 'Who is this?' I was told, 'The person in the river was a Riba-eater." (Sahih Bukhari 2041)

*Just a reminding (or new knowledge) for everyone that riba is a huge matter

Still, i dont get the reason why the money i am using is considered riba, eventhough it was used on a riba transaction in a long process.
Say,if i have a dollar from my sallary (that is, say, from a sharia bank) then why should i be given a riba sin? Because i dont have any wish to lend my money to anyone. If it is created from a riba process (central bank's general interest), can you briefly explain the process? What i know is money is circulating, and i never borrow anything from conventional bank.

format_quote Originally Posted by farhan

Oh yes need to look into that. Sounds exciting . Do you have big plans to travel somewhere?

For everyone on the thread read this beautiful poem by Imam Shafi:

The Benefits in Travelling

تغرب عن الأوطان في طلب العلى *** وسافر ففي الأسفار خمس فوائد
Leave your country in search of loftiness
And travel! For in travel there are 5 benefits,

تفرج هم واكتساب معيشة *** وعلم وآداب وصحبة ماجد
Relief of adversity and earning of livelihood
And knowledge and etiquettes and noble companionship

فإن قيل في الأسفار ذل ومحنة *** وقطع الفيافي وارتكاب الشدائد
If it is said that travelling brings humiliation and difficulty
And long journeys across deserts and toil and trouble,

فموت الفتى خير له من قيامه *** بدار هوان بين واش وحاسد
Then death is better for a person than him remaining
In a humiliating land between traitors and enviers

Big plans only in the mind lol. But places with nice, historical architecture will be nice to visit.

Nice poem, giving us a good reason to travel