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Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

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    Arrow Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

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    In the wake of the reprinting in Denmark of one of the 12 cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad, BBC religious affairs correspondent Frances Harrison finds the country's Muslim community dismayed but determined.

    "We will keep on working for integration, to build bridges. If you don't know who is Muhammad I am telling you please read about Muhammad," said the imam.
    He was leading prayers in a small overcrowded building in Copenhagen used as a mosque - with the faithful forced to pray outdoors in the courtyard on plastic mats in the icy wind.

    Danish Muslims have bought land for a purpose-built modern mosque, but they say their application somehow always gets stuck in the planning stage. It is one more grievance.


    Space may be cramped, but mosque attendance is high because all the major newspapers have just reprinted one of the controversial cartoons that shows the Prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.
    o 1 - Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    start quote rb 1 - Danish Muslims despair at portrayalAt Friday prayers this mistrust of the media is bubbling close to the surface. One furious man comes and tells the people I am interviewing not to trust journalists end quote rb 1 - Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    This was after Danish intelligence said they had uncovered a plot by three Muslims in Denmark to kill one of the cartoonists.


    "We were all punished by the printing of those pictures," says the imam in his sermon.


    He is angry that none of the men accused of masterminding the plot are being put on trial - the Danish intelligence services say revealing their evidence would compromise their intelligence network.


    Instead, they are expelling two of the suspects who do not have Danish citizenship and freeing the third who does.


    "How does it make sense that a person who is trying to kill somebody is being arrested, charged, interrogated and then released and yet still we should feel that he's a terrorist?" asks Imran Hussein, who runs Network an advisory body for Muslim organisations in Denmark.


    Like many Muslims here he was appalled by the discovery of the plot to kill the cartoonist but now he is more sceptical.


    'We despair'


    Denmark has about 250,000 Muslims - from Pakistan, Somalia, Turkey, Iraq and many other countries. It is a small figure, but Muslims make up 5% of the population.
    "A lot of people are afraid of Islam today in Denmark and when they are afraid of Islam it means they are afraid of me too," says Sofian, who was born in Denmark but feels he no longer has a future there.

    "When the same thing happens again it's tiring and we despair," says Kamran.


    "I am hurt, as I was the first time," says Feisal, who works in marketing and was also born in Denmark. He believes the problem is not Danish society but the media.


    "The Danish press should have learned from their previous mistakes and the only thing the Muslims are asking for is respect, nothing else".


    Feisal says he cannot understand why the media keeps focusing on the idea that Muslims are trying to take their freedom of speech away from them.


    "It's the media who started it this time, so I feel a lot of it is their fault," agrees Kamran, who also thinks there has been some positive dialogue with ordinary Danish people.


    'Alienation'


    At Friday prayers this mistrust of the media is bubbling close to the surface. One furious man comes and tells the people I am interviewing not to trust journalists, calling us animals who twist the truth. The feeling of hurt over the cartoons is slowly transforming into anger.
    "I will never feel one hundred percent accepted here in Danish society," says Imran Hussein, who has tried hard at integration, getting involved in local politics.

    He says the cartoons were just part of a bigger picture.


    "It's just getting worse and worse because the daily spoken language about immigrants and the portrayals of Muslims specifically are getting worse worldwide, so of course that's had an effect in Denmark as well," explains Imran.


    "Before it was my clothing was not correct, the food I ate wasn't good enough, the way I expressed myself wasn't good enough - now my Prophet is not good enough. The next would be I am not good enough," he says.


    Radical Islamist parties have been quick to channel this sense of alienation.
    Hizb ut Tahrir in Denmark organised a protest against the reprinting of the cartoons.

    Hundreds of demonstrators marched through the streets of Copenhagen shouting "God is Great!" and "Freedom of Speech is a plague!" Some Danes looked rather surprised.


    'Nobody listening'


    Meda watched the demonstration with her three-year-old daughter from the windows of a cafe; at first she thought it rather scary - later she realised it was peaceful.


    She is against the printing of the cartoons, saying "it was only meant to tease the Muslim people and I don't see any reason for that".


    Outside the cafe, under the guidance of Hizb ut Tahrir, Danish Muslims were chanting "Khilafat" - supporting the party's demand for the creation of a caliphate to unite Muslims worldwide.


    So far Muslims in Denmark have been talking about discrimination and the need for more respect. But the more they feel nobody is listening to their anger the more susceptible they will be to the message of radical political Islam.

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    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    I would like to pick up on this notion of Hizb-ut-Tahrir as a so-called 'radical Islamist' party.

    Is this really true? What is 'extreme' about them?

    Is it the fact that they are calling for a Khilafah/Caliphate that renders them an 'extreme' organisation?

    They're not leading questions btw...I just want to know.
    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    I would like to pick up on this notion of Hizb-ut-Tahrir as a so-called 'radical Islamist' party.

    Is this really true? What is 'extreme' about them?

    Is it the fact that they are calling for a Khilafah/Caliphate that renders them an 'extreme' organisation?
    It depends on where they wanna have it.
    And I don't think it's the Caliphate alone that rendered the party an "extreme radical organisation".
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    She is against the printing of the cartoons, saying "it was only meant to tease the Muslim people and I don't see any reason for that". [/SIZE] [FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]
    That's not the reason why the cartoons were republished.
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    I would like to pick up on this notion of Hizb-ut-Tahrir as a so-called 'radical Islamist' party.

    Is this really true? What is 'extreme' about them?

    Is it the fact that they are calling for a Khilafah/Caliphate that renders them an 'extreme' organisation?

    They're not leading questions btw...I just want to know.
    They are radically anti western and thats why they should be banned in west just like they are banned in majority of muslim countries. We shouldnt allow in our continent those who openly are hostile to us.
    On the other hand I am against making blasphemous cartoons of muslims prophet, its is just stupid and I dont think that it has something to do with freedom of speech.It has rather more to do with showing the middle finger to certain community(muslims).But what can we do when Europe is ruled by those who think that humiliating someone's religion is a sign of democracy and modernity. Europe is really in big moral crisis.
    Last edited by Amadeus85; 02-18-2008 at 07:17 PM.
    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint View Post
    That's not the reason why the cartoons were republished.
    I know.

    It was their response to an alleged plot to kill the cartoonist to show that they would not be intimidated, wasn't it? I'm aware of that.

    Hurting the sensibilities of millions of innocent Muslims around the world was just a by-product of their decision.


    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    I know.

    It was their response to an alleged plot to kill the cartoonist to show that they would not be intimidated, wasn't it? I'm aware of that.

    Hurting the sensibilities of millions of innocent Muslims around the world was just a by-product of their decision.
    The press could have made their point in a more respectful way, although I can imagine how they felt like. If I were in their position I'd probably publish the cartoons as well.
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Osman View Post
    I would like to pick up on this notion of Hizb-ut-Tahrir as a so-called 'radical Islamist' party.

    Is this really true? What is 'extreme' about them?

    Is it the fact that they are calling for a Khilafah/Caliphate that renders them an 'extreme' organisation?

    They're not leading questions btw...I just want to know.
    Don't know enough about the organization but if the achievement of a Caliphate somehow involves the "cleansing" of "Muslim lands" of the "filthy Kuffar" or their dismemberment or death...then I think they would be classified as "radical"
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint View Post
    The press could have made their point in a more respectful way
    I agree.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint View Post
    although I can imagine how they felt like. If I were in their position I'd probably publish the cartoons as well.
    I appreciate your honesty.
    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Don't know enough about the organization
    Same here.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    but if the achievement of a Caliphate somehow involves the "cleansing" of "Muslim lands" of the "filthy Kuffar" or their dismemberment or death...then I think they would be classified as "radical"
    That's a view I would tend to agree with.
    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    quote from the article:

    "This was after Danish intelligence said they had uncovered a plot by three Muslims in Denmark to kill one of the cartoonists.

    "We were all punished by the printing of those pictures," says the imam in his sermon.

    He is angry that none of the men accused of masterminding the plot are being put on trial - the Danish intelligence services say revealing their evidence would compromise their intelligence network.

    Instead, they are expelling two of the suspects who do not have Danish citizenship and freeing the third who does.

    "How does it make sense that a person who is trying to kill somebody is being arrested, charged, interrogated and then released and yet still we should feel that he's a terrorist?" asks Imran Hussein, who runs Network an advisory body for Muslim organisations in Denmark.


    This really makes sense doesnt it? Free the alleged culprits....and insult the Islamic nations.....
    If peace is what they are after you would think they would arrest these people...but no release them and print the pics again? Hmmmm common sense really prevails here???????Or is the plot thickening for personal agendas.....
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    Well I was inside the mosque that friday and I heard the guy. Right after the khuttba and prayer a man walked up took the microphone and yelled at the imam while getting support from the 200-400 muslims inside the mosque including myself.

    The imam was just to afraid of getting that much attention, and going to the middle east and starting the boycotts would bring alot of attention to him but yet still, he said alot of wrong things while he was speaking up there.

    The man who came up to him said, "The queen of Denmark is not our queen and nor our leader, and nor is Denmark our country! You bring shame on the this mosque and this community! If you want to do any good then be like the man you cried for a year ago (Ahmad Abu-Laban) ".

    Deep inside the imam was angry too and would at any point kill the man who made those cartoons, deep inside he would love to go to the middle east and start all the boycotting, but his quite young and unexperienced so he was probably just afraid of doing the same as what Ahmad Abu-Laban did.
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6 View Post
    Well I was inside the mosque that friday and I heard the guy. Right after the khuttba and prayer a man walked up took the microphone and yelled at the imam while getting support from the 200-400 muslims inside the mosque including myself.

    The imam was just to afraid of getting that much attention, and going to the middle east and starting the boycotts would bring alot of attention to him but yet still, he said alot of wrong things while he was speaking up there.

    The man who came up to him said, "The queen of Denmark is not our queen and nor our leader, and nor is Denmark our country! You bring shame on the this mosque and this community! If you want to do any good then be like the man you cried for a year ago (Ahmad Abu-Laban) ".

    Deep inside the imam was angry too and would at any point kill the man who made those cartoons, deep inside he would love to go to the middle east and start all the boycotting, but his quite young and unexperienced so he was probably just afraid of doing the same as what Ahmad Abu-Laban did.
    Was this a political rally or religious service? Doesn't seem there was a whole lotta prayin' goin' on.

    It brings up a variation of the old argument....Don't like the Queen?..Then go back to where you came from.
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Was this a political rally or religious service? Doesn't seem there was a whole lotta prayin' goin' on.

    It brings up a variation of the old argument....Don't like the Queen?..Then go back to where you came from.
    Unless you're actually from France.

    Freedom of expression does go both ways. In any case, being purposefuly offensive to a person or group, while technically illustrating free speech, is morally wrong, whoever makes the statement.

    Of course, it's infinitely more morally wrong to react like a violent lunatic...
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Was this a political rally or religious service? Doesn't seem there was a whole lotta prayin' goin' on.

    It brings up a variation of the old argument....Don't like the Queen?..Then go back to where you came from.
    So true. If you don't like, you have the freedom to go back where you come from.
    Me, I also wonder, what they 'prayed' in this mosque?

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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin View Post
    Unless you're actually from France.

    Freedom of expression does go both ways. In any case, being purposefuly offensive to a person or group, while technically illustrating free speech, is morally wrong, whoever makes the statement.

    Of course, it's infinitely more morally wrong to react like a violent lunatic...
    That it does. Freedom of expression means I can say something potentially insulting to you and you mustnt react violently. It also means I have to sit there and take as well when you rebuttle by calling me an idiot.
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Was this a political rally or religious service? Doesn't seem there was a whole lotta prayin' goin' on.
    He said it was right after the Khutba and prayer.
    Danish Muslims despair at portrayal


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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Was this a political rally or religious service? Doesn't seem there was a whole lotta prayin' goin' on.

    It brings up a variation of the old argument....Don't like the Queen?..Then go back to where you came from.
    The speech was more political, the praying was religious and after the prayer a man walked up and took the microphone and started talking.

    We cant go back, you ruined our country remember?
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6 View Post
    The speech was more political, the praying was religious and after the prayer a man walked up and took the microphone and started talking.

    We cant go back, you ruined our country remember?
    Where do you originally come from?
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    Re: Danish Muslims despair at portrayal

    format_quote Originally Posted by Isambard View Post
    That it does. Freedom of expression means I can say something potentially insulting to you and you mustnt react violently. It also means I have to sit there and take as well when you rebuttle by calling me an idiot.
    Yes but in Denmark blasphemy is also forbidden yet apperantly they dont see the cartoons as blasphemy, even though muslims seem to be extremly offended, more than ever in fact!
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