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  1. #1
    Uthman's Avatar
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    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

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    Female Muslim doctors and nurses are to be allowed to wear disposable sleeves in order to comply with NHS rules to prevent the spread of hospital superbugs.

    All staff involved in caring for patients should be 'bare below the elbows' to ensure sleeves do not become contaminated and hands can be washed thoroughly to prevent infections passed around the ward.

    However female Muslim staff had been concerned about the rule as exposure of their forearms is seen as immodest.

    Staff in several hospitals had reportedly refused to expose their arms for hand washing and 'scrubbing in' procedures before surgery.

    New guidance from the Department of Health said staff can wear disposable sleeves which are elasticated at the wrist and elbow when in contact with patients.

    The guidance also states that using alcohol gel to cleanse hands between treating patients does not contravene strict Muslim rules on alcohol.

    The guidance was drawn up following meetings between the Muslim Spiritual Care Provision in the NHS group and Islamic scholars, chaplains, multi-faith representatives and infection control experts.

    It said: "Use of hand disinfection gels containing synthetic alcohol does not fall within the Muslim prohibition against natural alcohol (from fermented fruit or grain)."

    The guidance added Muslim staff could wear uniforms with full length sleeves when not directly engaged in patient care and that they might not be loose or dangling. The sleeves should be able to be pulled back and secured for hand washing and direct patient care.

    The Sikh bangle should also be pushed up the arm and secured for hand washing, the guidance said.

    If Muslim women wish to cover their forearms during direct patient care they can wear disposable sleeves but washing of hands and wrists should still be observed.

    The guidance also said that staff should not wear wristwatches, white coats, neckties other than bow ties, jewellery other than a smooth wedding band and plain stud earings, or display facial piercings or tattoos.

    The document said that although there was no direct evidence that wearing uniforms to and from work increased the risk of spreading infection it was good practice to change at work or cover uniforms when outside as this would give patients more confidence.

    Christine Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health, said: "The revised guidance re-enforces the vital importance of good hand hygiene in the fight against infection.

    "Staff need to feel comfortable in their uniforms and should be able to dress in a manner that respects their cultural and religious beliefs. Balancing infection control measures with cultural sensitivities is challenging but this revised guidance provides helpful direction to services in how they can achieve this without compromising patient safety.”

    The General Medical Council has said that female Muslim doctors must be prepared to remove their veil to treat patients effectively as religious clothing must not be a barrier to good care.

    The guidelines say women can wear the hijab which covers the head and hair but not the face.

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    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty


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    Joe98's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthmān View Post
    The guidance also states that using alcohol gel to cleanse hands between treating patients does not contravene strict Muslim rules on alcohol.
    How do others feel on this point?

    -

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    جوري's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe98 View Post
    How do others feel on this point?

    -
    rubbing it can't be equated with ingesting it.. do you have a point?
    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Extremist Muslims can’t see the difference.

    The example is the man employed as a cook. When asked to cook bacon he went to court because “the hot bacon fat might spit on his hands”.

    He actually paid fees to a lawyer over the issue!

    He couldn’t see the difference between cooking and eating.

    -

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    جوري's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    you shouldn't be cooking bacon even if you are not going to ingest it. How you liken disinfectant to something you ingest or help another person ingest is beyond me.. in fact alcohol use should be limited to disinfection not consumption.. You don't need to be an 'extremist' to understand that.. you just need some common sense!

    all the best
    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


  8. #6
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthmān View Post
    All staff involved in caring for patients should be 'bare below the elbows' to ensure sleeves do not become contaminated and hands can be washed thoroughly to prevent infections passed around the ward.

    However female Muslim staff had been concerned about the rule as exposure of their forearms is seen as immodest.

    Staff in several hospitals had reportedly refused to expose their arms for hand washing and 'scrubbing in' procedures before surgery.
    They should have been let go right then and there. They actually refused to do their jobs, jobs literally vital for peoples' lives, because of their overinflated sense of shame? Did they expect us to risk contamination and infection passed around the ward? Ridiculus.

    New guidance from the Department of Health said staff can wear disposable sleeves which are elasticated at the wrist and elbow when in contact with patients.
    Good that they found a workaround. The public purse better not be paying for it, and they better have a way to clean these sleeves or change for new ones between patients.

    But.. they actually refused to work before this workaround was proposed to them? Whats next? Allowing muslimas to drive down the road wearing full face covering with just a little slit to see through as they are oblivious to the roads and cars around them? This kind of thing has to stop.

    This feeds directly into the thread below about banning head veils. Actions should not be banned particularly targetting a particular religion or culture. Good rational reasons need to exist for such bans/requirements. But where these reasons do exist no exceptions should be made to appease religion/culture, especially where there is any chance of harming others (ie, a public health or security risk).
    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 03-31-2010 at 04:27 AM.

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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    They should have been let go right then and there. They actually refused to do their jobs, jobs literally vital for peoples' lives, because of their overinflated sense of shame? Did they expect us to risk contamination and infection passed around the ward? Ridiculus.
    Seriously!!??? Are you a medical professional? Are you really so content that there are more than enough helth-care workers in the world to be able to take over their jobs???


    Good that they found a workaround. The public purse better not be paying for it, and they better have a way to clean these sleeves or change for new ones between patients.
    Does your doctor change his white coat between every patient that s/he attends to? Does your surgeon wash his/her hair as well while scrubbing into theatre??? Because I am well aware that a part of the surgeon's hair and the neck is exposed out-doors (for those who do not observe hijaab) AS WELL AS in theatre.


    As far as I know in South Africa we are still not permitted to wear the head scarf when operating in theatre.

    Wallahu A'lam

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    aadil77's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    The public purse better not be paying for it, and they better have a way to clean these sleeves or change for new ones between patients.
    Just like they shouldn't have to pay billions to treat friday night pissheads and druggies?

    Is it up to you to choose what the public pays for and what it doesn't?
    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty


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  11. #9
    Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Good stuff. Britain is, as always, being tolerant. Which is what I like to hear :-).

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    جوري's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Raudha View Post

    As far as I know in South Africa we are still not permitted to wear the head scarf when operating in theatre.

    Wallahu A'lam


    everyone has to wear sterile scrubs and gloves in the OR.. the only two items that aren't sterile are the head covers and face masks (which everyone must don) so technically everyone is in niqab (just the hospital provided variety)..I think surgery is an excellent field for Muslim women and know two to three Muslim surgeons.. although one of them doesn't wear hijab anyway she is quite observant otherwise but in her own way



    Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    Text without context is pretext
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    Raudha's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    ^The headgear that we wear in theatre does not cover the hair completely and the neck is completely uncovered - unlike that in the picture.

    Also, sometimes as students we enter the operating room to observe only, in which case we do not scrub in and are merely wearing the "surgeon's uniform"

    :><:

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    BintAbee's Avatar
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    Re: Female Muslim doctors allowed to wear disposable sleeves for modesty

    ^Ofcourse it depends where you are and how strict they are. Here, I am allowed to keep the head scarf on in theatre and don the cap thingy over it. Some people just wear a bandanna on their head. The sleeve thing is really a good thing coz I do feel terribly uncomfortable with my arms exposed. I hope we start implementing this very quickly here.


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