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Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

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    Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

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    Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights
    UPDATED @ 09:05:18 23-05-2011
    By Asrul Hadi Abdullah Sani
    May 22, 2011

    Former prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad declared Malaysia an Islamic state a decade ago in a move to counter PAS’ growing influence among the Malay Muslim population.
    KUALA LUMPUR, May 22 – Several Islamic leaders have questioned the loyalty of non-Muslims in the country, declaring today the community’s rights must be re-evaluated if Malaysia is to call itself an Islamic state.

    Former president of Islamic Da’wah Foundation Malaysia (Yadim), Datuk Nakhaie Ahmad, said treatment of non-Muslims must be based on the social contract agreed and pointed out that the government has been too gracious to the community.

    “In attempts to get vote and support of non-Muslims, we have been very gracious in giving them their civil rights. Civil rights given to them includes the rights to vote, participation in politics, hold office, involvement in the military and so forth but we cannot just willingly give them everything.

    “Our offer must be based on religious practices. If we look at the prophet’s agreement in the Madinah constitution, civil rights were given to the Jews but the rights must be paid back with responsibility. They must have the responsibility and agree to defend our country and not insult the agreement,” he said during a forum on "Membina Negara Sejahtera" organised by the Persatuan Ulama Malaysia here.

    Former prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad declared Malaysia an Islamic state a decade ago in a move to counter PAS’ growing influence among the country’s key Malay Muslim population.

    The issue cropped up this month when several groups asked for amendments to the Federal Constitution to stipulate only Muslims can be the prime minister after Utusan Malaysia carried an unsubstantiated report of a Christian plot to usurp Islam’s position as religion of the federation.

    Nakhaie stressed that non-Muslims that have broken the social contract must be expelled from the country and asked the government to adopt a tough approach in safeguarding Muslim interest.

    “If the agreement is broken then actions must be taken against them. If they break our agreement then they are our enemy and must be expelled from the country. We must not compromise with them. We must be stern with them when it comes to the social contract agreed,” he said.

    Nakhaie added it is important that high level government positions not be awarded to non-Muslims for national security.

    “We cannot give them important government position as it is not allowed for non-Muslims to become ministers in a Islamic state. Head of military must also not be given to non-Muslims.

    “Without thinking about the future of our country, we are so willing to give them everything. Granting them their civil rights must be balanced with Islamic preaching so they will understand justice in Islam and the Islamic system,” said the former PAS member who defected to Umno years ago.

    He also warned Muslims to unite as non-Muslims will become stronger if the community continues to quarrel among themselves.

    “They are brave now and are willing to say anything because they are becoming dominant. They (non-muslim political parties) are only working with us to only achieve their goals. It is a marriage of convenience. We know what is their programme. We are already losing economically and now we want to give political rights?” he asked.

    Ikatan Muslimin Malaysia’s (ISMA) deputy president Zamri Hashim added that Muslims must look beyond political affiliation for a common greater cause.

    “We must think outside of politics. The Malay agenda is too important to ignore and a majority of Malays are Muslims. This is no longer about PAS and Umno,” said the Perak deputy Mufti.

    Malaysian Islamic Youth Movement (Abim) deputy president, Dr Mohd Rumaizuddin Ghazali, also stressed that Malaysia must never become a secular state.

    “This is why many non-Muslim politicians want to declare the country as a secular state because then the government will not have fund religious programmes.

    “They are scared that if we accept Malaysia as an Islamic state then there are many implications which means that only Muslims have the right to lead the country,” he said.

    Mohd Rumaizuddin added that the Malays are beginning to be trampled on and non-Muslims are starting to take advantage of the community.

    “Because of politics, we are still not free after more than 50 years of independence,” he said.

    Hizbut Tahrir Malaysia president Abdul Hakim Othman added the country’s constitution must be replaced as it has been stained by the colonial British.

    “A Caliphate state is based on divine revelation. It is not a democratic or a theocratic state. It is only an Islamic state when the constitution is based on the Quran and prophetic traditions,” he said.

    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/m...muslim-rights/
    It is remarkable how much these people actually resemble the populist radical right here in Europe. Though they don't always openly dare say it, people like Wilders and Le Pen in essence make very similar political claims as Mr. Datuk Nakhaie Ahmad in the article.

    For example:
    • Both fundamentally oppose 'the others' from taking any high position in government
    • Both apparently want to expel those that 'break the social contract'
    • Both want a 'tough approach' to safe-guard the position of the dominant group
    • Both seem to feel they are under threat and see plots against the majority everywhere
    • Both claim that the political class has always been too lenient on 'the others'


    In a way this isn't that remarkable I suppose, as both the populist radical right in Europe and these guys in Malaysia are essentially conservative movements. They just claim different underlying ideologies, but nevertheless reach similar conclusions on what needs to be done to protect 'their heritage'. I suppose you have people like that everywhere.

    I wonder if they realize how similar they really are . Discuss!
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    I was going to respond to this, but I think it would be more appropriate and accurate that we get our malaysian brothers and sisters to reply first.

    But one thing is for sure, Malaysia never claim to be a full western style democratic state where it gives complete equal rights to everyone, while the european countries that are mentioned by kading have all claimed that they are full democratic states that give equal rights to every single one of their citizens, and they even have gone to extreme lengths to impose their full equal rights democracy on other states
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights



    Having lived in Malaysia for a few decades, I think I have some idea about what is going on there.

    1. Pas (formerly Pan-Malayan Islamic Party) was not formed to fight for Islam. Its founders were members of UMNO (the political party that had been governing Malaysia from independence till today) who were dissatisfied with the way UMNO was sharing political rights etc with non-Malays. In private, Pas national leaders talk of Tanah Melayu (Malay motherland) never Malaysia. Only the grassroot supporters think that they are fighting for Islam.

    2. Malaysia as an Islamic state? That's a big joke! Let's, for argument's sake, just compare Malaysia and Thailand. Thailand never claimed to be an Islamic state (nor does it make Buddhism the state religion either). So which country has a licensed casino? Which country issues more licenses to run lotteries? Which country supports Islamic schools by paying the salaries of the ustazes and ustazahs? Which country sacks a goernment officer for keeping a beard?

    3. In Malaysia, as in many other parts of the world, religion - Islam in the case of Malaysia - is a convenient political catch-word. Meaning politicians find religion useful in obscuring the truth of their hidden agendas. In Malaysia, the government is not actually against non-Muslims. The government is actually against the Chinese. The government is having nightmares about the Chinese taking over the country. fyi Chinese Muslims in Malaysia are required by law to affix their Chinese name to their Muslim name so that they will forever be identified as Chinese. I know this for a fact because I am a Malaysian Chinese Muslim and my identity card has my Chinese name after my Muslim name. Not only that, all my children, everyone of whom were born Muslims, also has my Chinese name attached to their Muslim names. This is a clear case of Sinophobia.

    4. So let's not talk about Malaysia as an Islamic state. None of the leaders quoted by the OP are talking about Islam. They are just using Islam as a convenient facade for furthering the cause of Malay nationalism.

    Hope this view, from Ground Zero, so to say, is useful. WaLLahu aklam.
    Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights






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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    What Dr Mahathir Mohamad said a decade ago was only rhetorical words in his political speech.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan View Post
    I was going to respond to this, but I think it would be more appropriate and accurate that we get our malaysian brothers and sisters to reply first.

    But one thing is for sure, Malaysia never claim to be a full western style democratic state where it gives complete equal rights to everyone, while the european countries that are mentioned by kading have all claimed that they are full democratic states that give equal rights to every single one of their citizens, and they even have gone to extreme lengths to impose their full equal rights democracy on other states
    The fact that Malaysia never claimed to be a democracy doesn't make it right though does it? I'm guessing if a western country said it wasn't a deomcracy and said it was against Muslims gaining power your reaction would be different?
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS View Post
    The fact that Malaysia never claimed to be a democracy doesn't make it right though does it? I'm guessing if a western country said it wasn't a deomcracy and said it was against Muslims gaining power your reaction would be different?
    Right, so how many Muslims have power in your western Governments. Just curious to know. I mean, it was hilarious how scared every non-Muslim in America got when they heard a rumour that Obama could be Muslim. And had he been, he would've been removed on the spot.

    Think
    Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

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    www.Searching-Islam.com
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    Nationalism/Superiority-complex is not limited to Malaysia---From what I understand, Saudi's are also unjust to "Non-Arabs" ---especially the "guest' workers in their country. It is a problem that needs to be eradicated---all human beings are equal under God. (Even if they don't believe in God) and racist, bigoted ideas or laws ignore the egalitarian spirit of the Quran. However, I also want to point out, that sometimes intolerance may be dressed up in religious language, but can be a result of other non-religious factors---such as geo-politics. Without doubt, we live in an uncertain era of changing rules and shifting geo-politcs and globalization. Uncertainty leads to fear which leads to intolerance---irrespective of what religious or secualr language is used to express it.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze View Post
    Right, so how many Muslims have power in your western Governments. Just curious to know. I mean, it was hilarious how scared every non-Muslim in America got when they heard a rumour that Obama could be Muslim. And had he been, he would've been removed on the spot.

    Think
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ale-muslim-mps

    http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/in...p?article=4633

    Of course we will have our loonies like the BNP but they'll never get into power *touch wood*

    I'm not American so I can't speak for them but pffft lol
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ale-muslim-mps

    http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/in...p?article=4633

    Of course we will have our loonies like the BNP but they'll never get into power *touch wood*

    I'm not American so I can't speak for them but pffft lol
    We meet again, Laura.

    In UK, several Muslims are MPs. It's true. And in Malaysia ?, ..... many non-Muslims are MPs in Malaysian parliament. They have their own political parties, which several parties are joined in Barisan Nasional coalition, together with UMNO, a biggest party that known as "Melayu Party".

    There is no rule if in Pilihan Raya (general election) Muslims are not allowed to vote non-Muslim, and non-Muslims are not allowed to vote Muslims. Malaysian people have a freedom to vote their favorite party, their favorite candidate.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    I am quite surprised that this isn't front page on Fox News and the like. It is perfect ammunition/justification for their brand of Islamophobia. They went ballistic when Ontario introduced voluntary opt-in arbitration based on sharia law for muslims. But they are silent on this? Quite odd. Maybe they are so insular that they simply don't know this is happening.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ale-muslim-mps

    http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/in...p?article=4633

    Of course we will have our loonies like the BNP but they'll never get into power *touch wood*

    I'm not American so I can't speak for them but pffft lol
    There are a number of muslims in Canada's parliament as well, though I do think it may be a barrier, just like being atheist is a barrier in getting elected. That's especially the case in the US. Surveys have shown that given no further information people there are very unlikely to vote for a muslim, even less likely to vote for an atheist, and even Mitt Romney (who does get elected) faces a bit of a barrier for being mormon.

    That the public has some prejudices and we face barriers though is completely different than actual laws banning us from office and from other forms of participation in society. It isn't Jim Crow. If we can persuade the public, we CAN get elected, and we don't have separate water fountains or tax laws or military admittance rules or streets or areas of town we're allowed and disallowed in.

    That a "muslim nation" (always questionable if they actually are such) goes the other way, works against democracy, and discriminates and segregates like this is perfect ammunition for those who in the west want to change our system to actually officially exclude muslims. The thought that will permeate the west from this is "If this is what muslims do when they have power, keep them out of power" and "They want to impose their sharia on all of us", etc.
    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 05-28-2011 at 03:20 PM.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS View Post
    The fact that Malaysia never claimed to be a democracy doesn't make it right though does it?
    this is purely subjective. Every country has its own principles & standards to drive laws, rights etc. You just can't compare apples with oranges and then drive your conclusion, which is based upon subjective reasoning, that apple is wrong but orange is right. It just doesn't work like that!
    Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife View Post
    this is purely subjective. Every country has its own principles & standards to drive laws, rights etc. You just can't compare apples with oranges and then drive your conclusion, which is based upon subjective reasoning, that apple is wrong but orange is right. It just doesn't work like that!
    Sure we can. We do it all the time. The only way to judge is to judge subjectively. There is no such thing as objective judgment. When we say the Nazis were a terrible evil government, that is a subjective statement.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Sure we can. We do it all the time. The only way to judge is to judge subjectively. There is no such thing as objective judgment. When we say the Nazis were a terrible evil government, that is a subjective statement.
    Al-hamdulillah God sent us guidance to tell us right from wrong.
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    Re: Malaysia: Islamic leaders question non-Muslim rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    That a "muslim nation" (always questionable if they actually are such) goes the other way, works against democracy, and discriminates and segregates like this is perfect ammunition for those who in the west want to change our system to actually officially exclude muslims.

    Salam brother,

    I don't think you have quite understood yet what a Muslim may do or not.
    Even though there is no existing Islamic state as you pont out, Islam is not similar to any form of state to day and has no place in any political arena other than its own for it's Theocratic.
    As for what seems modernization to some is only an accepted temporary measure in the eyes of the majority of Muslims until they have their own way.
    Therefore the idea of gradual change is an illusion seen only by the west.
    Should any Muslim earnestly take up the mantle of western style politics has in effect left Orthodox Islam.
    Assimilation into anything than Islam is seen as Spiritual death to a practising Muslim a mental excommunication a living hell.
    Politics to the previous generation of Muslims was seen only as a means to their way nothing more and nothing less the rest is theatre and some have been effected by their roles
    Reading a book about Islam and practising it is not something the stuck up arrogant west is willing to look into or accept a status quo I personally preffer.

    Masalam
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