http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...s-8457828.html
Algeria, Mali, and why this week has looked like an obscene remake of earlier Western interventions
We are outraged not by the massacre of the innocents, but because the hostages killed were largely white, blue-eyed chaps rather than darker, brown-eyed chaps
Odd, isn’t it, how our “collateral damage” is different from their “collateral damage”. Speaking yesterday to an old Algerian friend in the aviation business, I asked him what he thought of his country’s raid on the In Amenas gas plant.“Brilliant operation, Robert,” he shouted down the phone. “We destroyed the terrorists!” But the innocent hostages? What about their deaths, I asked? “Poor guys,” he replied. “We had thousands of women and children killed in our war [in the 1990s] – terrible tragedy – but we are fighting terrorism.”
And there you have it. Our dead men didn’t matter in the slightest to him. And he had a point, didn’t he? For we are outraged today, not by the massacre of the innocents, but because the hostages killed by the Algerian army – along with some of their captors – were largely white, blue-eyed chaps rather than darker, brown-eyed chaps. Had all the “Western” hostages – I am including the Japanese in this ridiculous, all-purpose definition – been rescued and had the innocent dead all been Algerian, there would have been no talk yesterday of a “botched raid”.
If all those slaughtered in the Algerian helicopter bombing had been Algerian, we would have mentioned the “tragic consequences” of the raid, but our headlines would have dwelt on the courage and efficiency of Algeria’s military rescuers, alongside interviews with grateful Western families.
Obscene
Racism isn’t the word for it. When George W Bush and Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara kicked off their war crimes with a full-scale invasion of Iraq, we didn’t care a **** about the Iraqis.Ten thousand dead in a year? Twenty thousand? Or as George Bush said, “Thirty thousand, more or less.” More or less what? But no problems with our precious dead. We know, for example, that since the Bush-Blair Iraqi adventure began, exactly 4,486 American military personnel died in the war.
So you know whom we care about. And whom we don’t care about. Watch carefully in the coming weeks, therefore, for the growing “Roll of Honour” of French troops in Mali, interviews in the French press with their relatives, statistics of the wounded. And don’t waste your time searching for details of dead Nigerian soldiers – or, indeed, dead Malian soldiers – because there will be no details of their sacrifice.
From the Middle East, the whole thing looks like an obscene television remake of our preposterous interventions in other parts of the world. French troops will be in Mali for only “several weeks”, Hollande and his cronies tell us. Isn’t that what we said when British troops first appeared on the streets of Northern Ireland, and then spent decades fighting there? Isn’t that what the Israelis said when they marched into Lebanon in 1982 and stayed for another 18 years? Isn’t this what we thought when we invaded Afghanistan? That our chaps might not even hear a shot fired in anger?
It was incredible to watch that old rogue Bernard Kouchner this week, mischievously demanding that British troops on the ground in Mali assist in France’s fight against Islamist “terror”. His eyes were alight with both cynicism and patriotism – a peculiarly French characteristic – as he played his 1914 entente cordiale “we’ll-be-in-Timbuktu-by-Christmas” routine.But why are “we”, the West, in Mali? How many readers – hands up, oh virtuous and honest folk, could actually name the capital of Mali two weeks ago?
I called up another friend, a French ex-legionnaire, yesterday. Why was France in Mali, I asked? “Well, they say that the Islamists would have reached Bamako and there would have been a Taliban-in-Kabul situation, a state that had fallen into extremist hands. But I myself don’t understand. Mali is an artificial state whose northern inhabitants, especially the Tuaregs, have always refused to be ruled by a black government in the south. It’s tribal, with a veil of ‘Islamism’ over the top of it – and now how do we get ourselves out of this mess?”
Disdain
Maybe we should ask Mokhtar Belmokhtar, the presumed “mastermind” – note the comic-cuts language we have to use for these vagabonds – of the Algerian raid. This is the “legendary” – again, note the adjective – “Mr Marlboro”, whose interest in contraband and semtex explosive belts seems to outweigh his duties to Islam. North African journalists know a lot about Belmokhtar and his cross-border trade in cigarettes, weapons, 4x4s, drugs, diamonds and illegal migrants, and they are also appalled that Algeria – Belmokhtar’s own birthplace – should now be involved in the Western crusade in Mali.
France’s overflights have been bitterly criticised in the Algerian press – a fact largely ignored in London where “wars on terror” take precedence over local Algerian opinion – as a symbol of Algerian humiliation at the hands of the country’s former colonisers.
But why should we care about the Algerians when they treat our dead with the disdain we have always shown for the Muslim dead of Iraq, Afghanistan or, for that matter, Palestine? Syria, please note, is temporarily in a different category, since our desire to destroy Bashar al-Assad allows us to turn all his victims into honorary Westerners. Odd, that. For among the rebels facing the ruthless Assad are folk very similar to Mr Belmokhtar and his merry Islamists, the very men who rouse the anger of Crusader Kouchner.
Do I sniff a bit of old-fashioned colonial insanity here? Carry on up the Niger? French troops battle rebels. “Terrorists” in retreat. Daily headlines from 1954 until 1962. In a country called Algeria. And I promise you, the French didn’t win that war.
Isn't it kind of obvious that the British media is more likely to focus on the British casualties? Just as the article says Algeria cares less? There has been praise from the British hostages for the Algerian military.
And what do you mean the "west's" perception, just from this one article?
''A terrorist shouted 'open the door!' with a strong north American accent, and opened fire. Two other Japanese died then and we found four other Japanese bodies in the compound,” Riad added, his voice choked with emotion.'' For people who have clear mind should think about this, 100% guaranteed this was an mercenary army.
Used as human shields’: Survivors of Algeria hostage crisis recall brutality and terror
In the wake of Algeria's In Amenas crisis, the hostage death toll rose to almost 60. The survivors have revealed tales of shocking brutality – captives were used as human shields, forced to wear explosive jackets and witness to horrific executions.
On Monday, Algerian Prime Minister Abdelmalek Sellal announced that 37 foreigners of eight nationalities were among those killed.
The four-day ordeal at the In Amenas gas plant in the Sahara Desert ended Saturday – several US, British, French, Japanese, Norwegian, Romanian and Algerian workers were reported dead or missing. Many of the survivors have spoken with the press, recounting horrific tales of the abuse and murder of hostages.
Philippine survivor Joseph Balmaceda witnessed foreign hostages being used as human shields to protect the militants. He described one Japanese hostage being draped with explosives, while he and others had their hands tied with cables.
“Whenever government troops tried to use a helicopter to shoot at the enemy, we were used as human shields,"Balmaceda told reporters shortly after he arrived back in Manila. "We were told to raise our hands. The government forces could not shoot at them as long as we were held hostage."
Balmaceda was the only survivor of nine hostages aboard a van that was bombed as militants clashed with Algerian security forces.
Militants targeted foreign hostages
Some of the freed workers described how they were forced to wear explosive jackets, and were threatened with being blown up. Others described watching their captors summarily execute hostages.
At a press conference on Sunday, the workers gave an account of how nine Japanese hostages were murdered.
Witnesses said the first three were killed as they tried to escape from a bus taking them to the airport. "We were all afraid when we heard bursts of gunfire at 5:30am (04:30 GMT) on Wednesday, after we realized that they had just killed our Japanese colleagues who tried to flee from the bus," AFP reported, quoting Riad, an Algerian national working for Japanese engineering firm JGC Corp.
Earlier reports claimed that one Brit and one Algerian were killed on the bus during the militants' initial assault. The gunmen then took the other bus passengers to the plant's residential compound, where they had taken hundreds of hostages, one witness explained.
"A terrorist shouted 'open the door!' with a strong north American accent, and opened fire. Two other Japanese died then and we found four other Japanese bodies in the compound,” Riad added, his voice choked with emotion.
During the hostage crisis, Algerian workers were held separately from the foreign nationals. According to witnesses, they were treated well, and the militants said they were not interested in killing non-Christians; eventually, they were allowed to leave.
"I was allowed to go, but before I did, I saw many Brits killed," an unidentified man told reporters. "One Westerner trying to give first aid was blown up by the terrorists."
Another unnamed witness who said he worked as an engineer told the French press that the militants were shouting:“We’re only looking for foreigners, you Algerians can go!”
Some workers managed to flee the complex by cutting a hole through a metal fence, according to media reports
A 57-year-old Norwegian man was reportedly among the 50 people who escaped through the fence. He told the press that he and the others had to walk for 15 hours through the desert, braving exhaustion and severe dehydration, before reaching the nearest town of In Amenas.
Another survivor, an Algerian driver identified as 'Brahim,' also escaped through the fence. He found refuge almost immediately when he stumbled onto the Algerian army.
"As bullets rang nonstop, we cut holes in the metal fence with large clippers, and once through, we all started running,"Brahim said. "We were quickly taken in by the special forces stationed just a dozen meters from the base. I didn't look back."
Death toll climbs
On Monday, the bodies of two Canadians were discovered among the Islamists killed during the hostage crisis, after having been recovered from the site, Algerian private TV station Ennahar reported. Reuters also reported that nine Japanese nationals were killed during the four-day siege.
A raid by the Algerian military on Saturday ended the hostage crisis, with initial reports that at least 25 foreigners and Algerians had been killed, along with 32 of the kidnappers. The death toll was later raised to at least 89.
At least one of the militants responsible for the kidnapping was supposedly a French national, but Paris could not verify the claim, France24 reported. If true, the allegation would reinforce earlier reports by some of the surviving hostages, who claimed to have heard militants speaking French and English, in addition to Arabic.
Some of the hostages also said that the militants were able to easily navigate the facility, and knew its internal procedures and the room numbers of the foreign workers. "They had accomplices on the inside," Riad said.
Earlier, the militants said the attack on the plant had been planned for two months, Mauritania's ANI news agency reported.
http://rt.com/news/algeria-hostages-recall-crisis-419/
Since when do malians have strong north american accents?
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 01-21-2013 at 05:40 PM.
LauraS, why obvious? For the majority of people who aren't directly concerned, the implication of the British media's focus is an assumption that their viewers/readers are primarily motivated by nationalism. That's an irritating assumption to work with if you don't subscribe to nationalism and just want to know what's happening in the world. Having said that, the article is quite odd in that the author asks, 'Why are we, the West, in Mali?' (good question)but fails to respond to or analyse that question in any way. That's the problem with dealing with serious issues in such a flippant manner. Based on the title I would have liked to see some criticism of the military intervention and the Western involvement in it, rather than criticism of the media coverage, which is a lot easier to do but doesn't get to the heart of the issues and doesn't encourage people to move on from the usual generalisations and stereotypes.
^^^Because it's natural for a country to focus on news of it's own citizens, because the victims involved will be known to people in Britain. Also as the hostages return here it is our press they will give their stories to. I would expect the same to happen in any country, it doesn't make the media racist and doesn't mean other victims won't be mentioned. The same thing happens with any crisis, with the awful school massacre slightly extra coverage was given to the British boy who was killed. When the plane crashed in Nepal last year there was a focus on the identity of the British passengers on board. It doesn't mean the other victims are any less important. The author also says of his Algerian friend, "And there you have it. Our dead men didn’t matter in the slightest to him." it swings both ways. Although I think it's a bit of a harsh generalisation for the author to suggest no one cares for anyone but their own nationalities. I'm also tired of everyone just getting lumped together as "the west".
I'm interested in the Muslim perception of this situation then, so do people believe it's another staged attack?
I understand your point, that's why I said 'the majority of people who aren't directly concerned'. Some people will watch the news and see items about people who are known to them, most won't, but they keep watching because they are interested. If the headline was 'x number of people killed, including x number of Britons', it would be of interest to both groups. If you just say 'x number of Britons killed' it is of interest to the first group but to the second (the majority) what is the implication? I agree it's not necessarily racism but I think nationalism comes into it.
On your question about the possibility of staging, how can we know? In incidents like this, we don't know much about the people involved, it is surrounded by secrecy and conflicting claims. People are still debating the aspects of events that happened decades and centuries ago. The fact that we have more sophisticated technology now doesn't necessarily mean we know more. Allah knows best.
The only racism that matters here is by the terrorists themselves, who went through the employees and singled out every non-Arab/non-African man for execution or ransom.format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
Race alone was sufficient to condemn them.
Firstly, as I understand it, none of the articles or the posters in this thread have offered any approval for the actions of the hostage takers whatsoever and neither would I.
Secondly, the point you raised may be the only aspect of the situation that matters to you, however that isn't the case for everyone, and the points under discussion are not directly related to the one you made.
And how is Jedi's default conspiracy theory more related? What's that got to do with racism?format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
Jedi is trying to shift the responsibility from the hostage takers back onto westerners themselves. So yes, in effect he is providing an excuse for the real perpetrators.format_quote Originally Posted by tearose
I even doubt if these guys were so-called ''islamists'' as well. they have been trained to do this, and this plan to hundreds of hostage and lock down the entire facility must have been planned in advance. It adds up to the destabilzation of the region. Even before this french colonization. Remember that the CIA and special forces have been caught red handed posing as muajhideen meanwhile placing VBIEDS near mosques and in market places.
''Al Qanada: Sahara gas terrorists were led by Canadian and had insider help
21 Jan 2013 22:00Islamist fighters knew the In Amenas complex “by heart”, were wearing Algerian military uniforms and had a former employee in their ranks,''
Islamists? No. Mercenaries - yes. Considering that this move was organized and planned by a westerner after all, blue eyes blond hair is how they described him. Look which vital interest would the mujahideen of mali have to hijack a oil facility? None, they have their hands full with the invasion on their ground.
Last edited by Muhammad; 01-23-2013 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Quoted a deleted post
Before the mujahideen took power in north mali the area was fully controlled by foreign companies, especially the uranium and gold mines there. I guess thats why france jumped on it straight away. Syria has not much resources and is dependend on gas from iran, they thought they could find gas in the mediterrean however israhellhas occupied these gas fields already. the west wouldnt give a **** about the syrians indeed, and a invasion of syria will very well risk a global or wider conflict, and the west cant take that.
The west with fake promises to overthrow Assad, but this wont happen. Assad will be brought down by the groups fighting him and not by NATO. However syria has a long way to recover sadly.
Last edited by Muhammad; 01-23-2013 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Quoted a deleted post
duhhhhhhhh.. of course that's why they're there. Every one of those western wh0re nations is there to secure something and they only stand to have despots in power to mooch off our blood. I don't know why it is that folks care to win the 'war of public opinion'? I personally think we should collectively move past that. They're not anymore honorable for labeling themselves 'freedom fighters' and the others 'terrorists' -- strip it all of the florid terms and see it for what it is!format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Problem for france and good for us is that they never really won a war. Only with help from traitors and its allies in the UK and the US.format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
And the mujahideen north mali have proven themselves to be very experienced, considering that some of these rebels had trained in the US-backed malian army first, after seperating from them. I really hope france gets a good beat down. And that the frenchies will consider and doubt their own government. insha'Allah
They will indeed.. they're cowards like their UK counterparts. However the problem is indeed the people on the ground they brain wash to do their bidding (just a war tactic) aimed at the weak minded- There was a time in history when they'd boast that they won the war without losing a single British soldier.. obviously using commonwealth regions that they'd colonized.format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
The world or rather the people have evolved so fast, the new generations has such an aversion for our parents generation and their obsequious servile ways.
It won't be easy for them at all. Now is the time for Muslims to rise if they're true!
Hi, I know you propably think that sister Shaden is endorsing terrorism by her posts but I think-please correct me if I'm wrong- she's trying to express how western intervention in international affairs is very dishonest and biased and their foreign affairs policies are also driven by ulterior motives. With that being said;I think she's saying that how come when it comes to muslims being killed in massive number they couldn't careless but when there some kind of turmoil going on in a country of their beneficial interest they get very hiped up about it. I'm mainly talking about the governments here which I know don't represent the whole population of it's people so I didn't mean to make any generalization. I too hope that sister Shaden didn't actaully mean to advocate terrorism--Just try to see things from a non-western perspective may help to know what she meant.format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Guys, come on, enough with the label's and nicknaming- the entire population of France and the UK are not as bad as their governments.
We're discussing governments sis are we not? Although after the treatment and overt bigotry France displays against its Muslim citizens and the random arrests of sisters in Burqas and fining them and stripping them in police stations, there's absolutely no love left. I don't feel like I have to apologize or be politically correct. Is there a law against saying it as it is? I understand that you're very sensitive I see it in your various posts and it is a sweet trait to have. We can't all be bestowed with such gentleness nor should we be. Many like the Ammar Ibn Yassir Route and he was a wonderful Sahabi, but we also had Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed as a sahabi.format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Right now we're at war.. and sometimes war is psychological I am asking you to not yield or at least look the other way while others do their partthe 3aqiba is lilmotaqeen!
Never gave the fault to the population as they're victims of their zionist dominated government also. However when they sign up for the army their own choice, but they should bear the concequences when they fight imperialist wars.format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
May Ayob liked this post
We should be like him when it's called for. No one really knows what's going on there for sure, unless of course you happen to be there.we also had Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed as a sahabi.
Please let's overlook the whole 'incitation for violence' issue and continue our disscussion.
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks