Wednesday, April 03, 2013
HURTING RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT
7 more bloggers to be arrested: Home minister
Govt committee identifies 11 bloggers
Star Online Report
This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan
This April 2 photo shows three bloggers arrested for “writing derogatory content about Islam” at a press briefing at Detective Branch office in Dhaka. Photo: Palash Khan
The home ministry has identified 11 bloggers “who have hurt religious sentiment of Muslims through their writings”, Home Minister MK Alamgir has informed.
“Four of them have so far been arrested while efforts are on to capture the others,” he told journalists after a high-profile meeting at the ministry on Wednesday.
Deputy Leader of the House Syeda Sajeda Chowdhury, Food Minister Abdur Razzaque, Awami League Joint General Secretary Mahbubul Alam Hanif, Shipping Minister Shahjahan Khan, Forests Minister Hasan Mahmud, State Minister for Law Qamrul Islam and State Minister for LGRD Jahangir Kabir Nanak were present at the meeting.
Details of the meeting that discussed the latest situation of the country could not be known immediately.
Police arrested blogger Asif Mohiuddin at Segunbagicha in the capital on Wednesday, a day after three others were held for posting “derogatory comments about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)” on the Internet.
The arrests came amid strong criticism over the government role, which many termed as “submissive”, following some radical Islamist organisations’ threat of unleashing anarchy if “atheist bloggers are not hanged”.
Many think the arrests would add further to the growing frustration of the youths and online activists, who have been agitating since February 5 demanding death penalty of war criminals, over the government role.
In the night of January 13, some miscreants attacked Asif with knives as he was entering his office in Uttara, leaving him seriously injured. He had to stay in hospital for a month.
On Monday, police arrested four members of Ansarullah Bengali Team, a newly-launched militant organisation, from different parts of the city ‘for attempting to murder’ Asif.
In an overnight drive on Monday, law enforcers arrested three bloggers, including a Dhaka University student, from different areas of the capital on the same allegation.
Hours after the arrest, they were each placed on a seven-day remand in a case filed for making disparaging comments about Islam and the Prophet.
On February 15, blogger Ahmed Rajib Haider was brutally killed by miscreants in front of their Mirpur residence. Later, police arrested five youths in connection with the murder.
Radical Islamist groups have been campaigning against the Shahbagh movement initiated by the bloggers.
Hefajat-e Islam, a so-called Islamist organisation instrumental to this end, will march towards Dhaka on April 6 and have threatened of non-stop shutdown and letting loose 313 members of suicide squad if the government obstructs its march.
“The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like one body. When one of the limbs is afflicted, the whole body responds to it with sleeplessness and fever”.
huh , so u beleive it's a right of atheists to write fake stories in nasty language against Prophet Muhammed pbuh , companions of him , his wife who is mother of the believers and Muslims should watch it silenlty ? That's not fair .
I agree. They should be more respectful than to use nasty language or to make up stories.
But what I find shocking is that you find THIS to be the only thing worth commenting on in the OP. You don't seem to care whatsoever about people being murdered, and being murdered in the name of your religion, linking it with hatred and violence. I'd have thought you'd be very offended at people trying to make your religion look violent and murderous. But you seem to accept it. That may not be your intention, but it is the perception you project here, and it is very much where these bloggers will get more source material for their rants against Islam. If they can make Islam in general look to us like its out to murder anybody who doesn't like it then you've got an impossible PR issue, and those adds in the NYC subway are justified in the minds of many.
U may say that now the question is , Are u a Muslim ? Then protest agaisnt those bloggers . On the other hand , the youth who first started the protest against accused war criminals are saying , we are not against Islam or any religion . Don't harrass any bloggers because of some Islmaic groups who want to protect the war criminals.
I agree it's difficult and divisive. But whatever the bloggers may or may not have said, this should not be allowed to affect or delay the prosecution of the war criminals who are accused (and in some cases already tried and found guilty) of the most severe crimes against tens of thousands of victims.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Govt. at first did not do anything to stop / punish the bloggers . Govt. even did not block their sites / remove anti Islamaic posts .
That's why it's so puzzling the the Government seems to have made a U-turn. Why have they suddenly turned on the bloggers? There has to be a deal here between the Government and Jamaat-e-Islami - or else the Government has simply lost its nerve.
(By the way, there are also accusations of fraud here. Most of the worst anti-Islamic internet links went to Rajib Haider’s blogsite. But Rajib was already dead when this material was posted. It is said that the site shows no traffic the day before his death.)
. Most of the worst anti-Islamic internet links went to Rajib Haider’s blogsite. But Rajib was already dead when this material was posted. It is said that the site shows no traffic the day before his death.)
I don't think so . There are so many anti Islamic pages of Rajib in different sites including Facebook . More than one people told me they knew him through his anti Islmaic posts since long . If he was not guilty of blashphemy , then why he was killed ? If his account has been hacked , who did it ? It must not be hard for Govt. to find it out.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
to my knowledge , if blashphemers refuse to offer repentance , then they can recieve death penalty or Judge will order to cut the hand and leg from opposite side or can order them to leave country forever .
Someone correct me pl. if I m wrong .
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
If he was not guilty of blashphemy , then why he was killed ?
Well, he was hacked to death by a mob so I don't think there was anything resembling due process involved.
The key point is that any legal action against the bloggers, if justified, should not interfere with or hold back action against suspected war criminals - whose actions (I hope you would agree) are far, far worse in humanitarian terms and even in religious terms (because they committed their crimes at least partly in the name of Islam). We need trials, not riots.
There's no due process involved in the west either why not go down to gitmo investigating all the suspicious 'suicides' they've there or rather demand due process trial and representation before you open your bazoo here?
You know just so you wouldn't come across like a complete hypocrite with absolutely everything you write!
Best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
That's not even up for debate. The penalty for Blasphemy [different to debate based criticism] is execution, quite simple.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
to my knowledge , if blashphemers refuse to offer repentance , then they can recieve death penalty or Judge will order to cut the hand and leg from opposite side or can order them to leave country forever .
Someone correct me pl. if I m wrong .
Walaikum Asalaam,
If Blasphemy is against the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), they become an apostate; of which the hanafis, hanbali's and Maliki's say that repentance won't be enough to remove the punishment on them. Punishment is for the offence (of Blasphemy), not apostasy. Shafi'is however say that repentance in such an instance is enough to deter the punishment on them.
Blasphemy against God, hanafi's and shafi's say repentance is enough to deter the punishment, but hanbali's say it isn't. Can't remember the stance of the Maliki.
There's also stuff like if the person's a new revert, or a female, a non Muslim, that comes into account for some of the schools. But you get the general picture, that most don't really allow repentance if the Blasphemy is against the Prophet.
Shafi'is are the only one's that allow it in all occassions due to istitaba.
Last edited by Perseveranze; 04-07-2013 at 02:50 PM.
That's not even up for debate. The penalty for Blasphemy [different to debate based criticism] is execution, quite simple.
Surely the leaders who committed the crimes of mass murder and rape in the war of independence deserve the death penalty far more than a bunch of bloggers who killed no one? Yet the war criminals who have been found guilty already were only given custodial sentences (the death sentence was available).
Surely the leaders who committed the crimes of mass murder and rape in the war of independence deserve the death penalty far more than a bunch of bloggers who killed no one? Yet the war criminals who have been found guilty already were only given custodial sentences (the death sentence was available).
If a country is at war, fighting against the enemy doesn't mean we suddenly start to tolerate people stealing, raping and committing various kinds of war crimes.
Blasphemy isn't simply punished for no reason. It causes divisions amongst groups, spreads hatred, causes civil chaos (the anger, protests, can lead to even more deaths etc. due to nothing being done) - all because some fools decided it would be fun to to get a reaction from people by needlessly insulting their beliefs.
Islam prescribes peace between the differing groups and minorities, it prioritises this as to encourage people treat one another in righteousness. Insulting Dhimmi's is also a punishable offence, as there's no point in tolerating Non-Muslims practicing their beliefs, when they aren't able to do it in peace (ie. without the insults etc.).
Last edited by Perseveranze; 04-07-2013 at 03:22 PM.
i understand it can be divisive - however, in this case the agitation against the bloggers is led by the very people and their supporters who are accused of war crimes, in a (successful) attempt to distract attention.
format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Islam prescribes peace between the differing groups and minorities, it prioritises this as to encourage people treat one another in righteousness. Insulting Dhimmi's is also a punishable offence, as there's no point in tolerating Non-Muslims practicing their beliefs, when they aren't able to do it in peace (ie. without the insults etc.)
All good to hear. However, although Bangladesh is a (mostly) Muslim country i read that it has a secular constitution. Does this law actually apply in Bangladesh?
Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?
When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.
By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.
Again, it seems that;
a) You didn't read all my posts within this thread
b) You didn't understand my posts
c) You don't understand the differenciation between insult and criticism. I can only make an assumption here, that you consider "opposing Islam" as a means of insult, I personally don't.
And it calls for their execution within a context, one that they are more than aware of the consequences before they decide to commit the crime, including the "reaction", that's why they try to do it with anonymity.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.
a) You didn't read all my posts within this thread
No offense to any atheist here but this seems to be true not only to you but also to all atheists in general including in our forum board. Can't take time to read everything?
JUST PUT HIM IN A SHED WITH JUST ONE SOLDIER AFTER WHAT HE SAID, THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE WALKING OUT OF THE SHED AND IT WOULDN'T BE THAT MUSLIM SCUM BAG, THEY WANT TO LIVE HEAR IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT DRESS AND LOOK AND LIVE LIKE THEY ARE LIVING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY THE ENGLISH PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM AND DON'T WANT THEM LIVING HEAR LIKE IT WAS SOME OTHER COUNTRY IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HEAR, LIVE LIKE YOUR IN ENGLAND.
Now, put that the other way around... What's fair?
First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.
Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.
Now you post a link to a story about a guy who wrote how he wishes his country's soldiers to die and who was spared jail for it, and you somehow think that is comparable to people who mock your religion and get killed for it.
There are of course horrible things done by western governments to Muslims (and other groups of people). The key difference here is that I don't endorse it. Western governments can get away with doing these things to muslims because they demonize Islam. They create images in people's minds of terrorism and hatred. People like the guy quoted in the post above start hating Islam and saying hateful things about Muslims. They put up adds like the ones in NYC subway in that other thread below. This is very troubling and I stand with you against it.
Some of us non-muslims in the west would like to live in harmony and see this sort of fear and xenophobia stop. But you make that awfully hard when you show no concern about people murdering in the name of Islam, and in fact endorse the murder of those who insult Islam.
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 04-07-2013 at 08:11 PM.
JUST PUT HIM IN A SHED WITH JUST ONE SOLDIER AFTER WHAT HE SAID, THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE WALKING OUT OF THE SHED AND IT WOULDN'T BE THAT MUSLIM SCUM BAG, THEY WANT TO LIVE HEAR IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT DRESS AND LOOK AND LIVE LIKE THEY ARE LIVING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY THE ENGLISH PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM AND DON'T WANT THEM LIVING HEAR LIKE IT WAS SOME OTHER COUNTRY IF YOU WANT TO LIVE HEAR, LIVE LIKE YOUR IN EN
You want to be as irrational and hateful as that guy?
Also, the comparison isn't all that great. The target of this guy's mad capslock ire is somebody who called for the death of England's soldiers, not somebody who simply insulted England.
Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?
.
Islam does not need their respect but in Islamic state you keep your insults to yourself.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.
.
Islam have long history having dialogues with atheists, the problem is most of these people are not up for discussion, they just like to throw insults.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.
Again not who oppose it but who insult it. Many people refuse to comprehend the difference, and they are quick to pass the moral judgement.
Looking at the reply, I guess I'll opt for your lack of understanding it then.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.
I'm certainly upset that anyone was killed without being tried in a Shariah court, as vigilantism isn't acceptable. But, at the same time, I'm upset that people are insulting my deen, for no reason whatsoever, only to cause many problems (sorry, but I'm not going to repeat it for the 3rd time).
No one is condoning either action here. We want justice to be served, but want it to be done within the limits of the Shariah.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.
Once again, you didn't understand my post.
Difference between "murder" (unlawful killing) and execution (lawful killing). We only wish for these blasphemers to be tried within a Shariah court, and if proven guilty, to serve the absolute punishment for causing strife and chaos within the lands.
I've already also explained why Blasphemy is punishable for Islam. If it wasn't, or hate-speech for that matter wasn't, various groups and minorities would struggle to get a long in peace and tolerance. Laws and punishments are there to deter.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
ow you post a link to a story about a guy who wrote how he wishes his country's soldiers to die and who was spared jail for it, and you somehow think that is comparable to people who mock your religion and get killed for it.
Insulting the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is an unimaginable number of times worst than insulting a few soldiers who follow the orders of a nation that has wrecked millions of lives and killed in the thousands.
Both of course, is something I condemn. I just wanted to show you the double standards. There's many cases in the UK (or the west) where people have actually been jailed for insulting.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
There are of course horrible things done by western governments to Muslims (and other groups of people). The key difference here is that I don't endorse it.
That's good for you. But you need to understand why people (both western and Muslims) see insulting as a criminal offence. No one is against freedom of speech here, we're all happy with progressive dialogue. After all, how are Muslims going to give dawah to Non-Muslims if we don't answer their questions/concerns/criticisms?
But this is very much different to unprogressive, pointless acts, such as "draw Muhammad day", bomber cartoons, cheap videos with the purpose to insult and get a reaction from the Muslim community etc.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Western governments can get away with doing these things to muslims because they demonize Islam. They create images in people's minds of terrorism and hatred. People like the guy quoted in the post above start hating Islam and saying hateful things about Muslims. They put up adds like the ones in NYC subway in that other thread below. This is very troubling and I stand with you against it.
Blasphemy is hate speech.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Some of us non-muslims in the west would like to live in harmony and see this sort of fear and xenophobia stop. But you make that awfully hard when you show no concern about people murdering in the name of Islam, and in fact endorse the murder of those who insult Islam.
Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution. Sure, there's a difference of opinion in regards to repentance, and whether it was done by a non-Muslim etc.
But there is, none the less, punishment for it. And anyone who denies this is walking a very thin line.
Last edited by Perseveranze; 04-08-2013 at 12:32 AM.
Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.
Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...
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