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Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

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    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution' (OP)


    Salaam

    With Trump in power, Netanyahu has a free hand.


    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'


    Land grab law 'allows theft, stalls peace process'

    Law that retroactively legalises settler homes on private Palestinian land widely condemned as legitimising theft.


    Israel's land grab law that retroactively legalises thousands of settlement homes in the occupied West Bank legitimises theft, violates international law and ends the prospect of a two-state solution, according to politicians, legal experts and human rights groups.

    The so-called "Regulation Bill" instantly drew wide condemnation as it was voted in by members of the Knesset late on Monday with a 60 to 52 majority.

    The law applies to about 4,000 settlement homes in the West Bank for which settlers could prove ignorance that they had built on privately owned Palestinian land and had received encouragement from the Israeli state to do so.

    Three Israeli NGOs - Peace Now, Yesh Din and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel - and numerous Palestinians said they intend to petition the Supreme Court to cancel the law.

    UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said on Tuesday in a statement: "This bill is in contravention of international law and will have far reaching legal consequences for Israel."

    The EU's foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said in a statement that the bloc "condemns" the law and urges against its implementation "to avoid measures that further raise tensions and endanger the prospects for a peaceful solution to the conflict".

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the law was an aggression against the Palestinian people.

    "That bill is contrary to international law," Abbas said following a meeting with French President Francois Hollande in Paris. "This is an aggression against our people that we will be opposing in international organisations.

    "What we want is peace ... but what Israel does is to work toward one state based on apartheid."

    Hollande called on Israel to go back on the law, saying it would "pave the way for an annexation, de-facto, of the occupied territories, which would be contrary to the two-state solution".

    Hours before Abbas' meeting with Hollande, Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, told the Associated Press news agency that the law puts "the last nail in the coffin of the two-state solution".

    Calling the move "theft", Erekat said the ruling showed "the Israeli government trying to legalise looting Palestinian land".

    The Arab League also accused Israel of "stealing the land" from Palestinians.

    "The law in question is only a cover for stealing the land and appropriating the property of Palestinians," said the head of the Cairo-based organisation, Ahmed Aboul Gheit.

    Palestinian owners will be compensated financially or with other land, but cannot negotiate their terms.

    The law is a continuation of "Israeli policies aimed at eliminating any possibility of a two-state solution and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state", Aboul Gheit said.

    Jordan, one of the few Arab states to have diplomatic ties with Israel, also denounced what it called "a provocative law likely to kill any hope of a two-state solution".

    According to the UN envoy for the Middle East peace process, Nickolay Mladenov, the law crosses a "very thick red line" towards annexation of the occupied West Bank, and sets a "very dangerous precedent".

    Speaking to the AFP news agency, he said: "This is the first time the Israeli Knesset legislates in the occupied Palestinian lands and particularly on property issues."

    He also raised the possibility the law could open Israel up to potential prosecution at the International Criminal Court, a threat Israel's own top government lawyer, attorney general Avichai Mandelblit, has also warned of.

    Mladenov called for strong international condemnation of the legislation but declined to criticise the US after President Donald Trump's administration refused to comment on it.

    Trump is more sympathetic to Israel's settlement policies than previous US presidents; the Israeli government has approved plans to build thousands of new homes on occupied territory since the far-right leader settled into the White House.

    "I think that is a very preliminary statement," Mladenov said. "Obviously they do need to consult, this is a new administration that has just come into office and they should be given the time and the space to find their policies."

    White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the US was likely to discuss the law with Netanyahu when the Israeli prime minister visits on February 15, but did not comment further in a press briefing on Tuesday.

    David Harris, head of AJC, the global Jewish advocacy organisation, said that "Israel's High Court can and should reverse this misguided legislation" ahead of Netanyahu's meeting with Trump in February.

    That was also the message from Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who said last week: "The chance that it will be struck down by the Supreme Court is 100 percent."

    'Against all international laws'

    International law considers all settlements to be illegal, but Israel distinguishes between those it sanctions and those it does not, dubbed outposts.

    A Palestinian Cabinet minister also called on the international community for support.

    "Nobody can legalise the theft of the Palestinian lands. Building settlements is a crime, building settlements is against all international laws," said Palestinian Tourism and Antiquities Minister Rula Maayaa. "I think it is time now for the international community to act concretely to stop the Israelis from these crimes."

    Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, called the law "unacceptable" and urged the international community to act immediately.

    "This is an escalation that would only lead to more instability and chaos," Rdeneh said.

    Palestinians want the occupied West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip - territories Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war - for their future state.

    The international community views settlements as illegal and an obstacle to reaching peace.

    Shortly before leaving office, US President Barack Obama allowed the UN Security Council to pass a resolution declaring settlements illegal.

    Tobias Ellwood, Britain's Middle East minister, also condemned the land grab bill, saying it "is of great concern that the bill paves the way for significant growth in settlements deep in the West Bank".

    Yuval Shany, an international law professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said the law violates basic rights, interferes with property rights and is discriminatory because it regulates only the transfer of land from Palestinians to Jews.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/israel-land-grab-law-ends-hope-state-solution-170207143602924.html
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

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    Those secularist zionist lgbt marching jews should be given half of england and america and not the holy land which is not theirs to give - since the governments of england and america claim to be sympathetic to them




























    Palestinian woman shot dead trying to stab Israeli police, officials say

    Woman said to be mother of man killed by Israeli police last year was reportedly trying to stab officers with scissors when she was shot


    Agence France-Presse in Jerusalem


    Wednesday 29 March 2017 18.25 BSTLast modified on Wednesday 29 March 201718.40 BST


    A Palestinian woman said to be the mother of a man killed last year attempted to stab Israeli police officers with scissors at the entrance to Jerusalem’s Old City on Wednesday before being shot dead, officials said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-officials-say















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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'



    GOD'S Sure Judgment on Jerusalem


    1Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me to the gate of the house of theLord that faces east. There at the entrance of the gate were twenty-five men, and I saw among them Jaazaniah son of Azzur and Pelatiah son of Benaiah, leaders of the people.
    2The Lord said to me, “Son of man, these are the men who are plotting evil and giving wicked advice in this city.
    3They say, ‘Haven’t our houses been recently rebuilt? This city is a pot, and we are the meat in it.’

    New Living Translation
    They say to the people, 'Is it not a good time to build houses? This city is like an iron pot. We are safe inside it like meat in a pot.'


    English Standard Version
    who say, ‘The time is not near to build houses. This city is the cauldron, and we are the meat.’


    New American Standard Bible
    who say, 'Is not the time near to build houses? This city is the pot and we are the flesh.'


    King James Bible
    Which say, It is not near; let us build houses: this city is the caldron, and we be the flesh.


    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    They are saying, 'Isn't the time near to build houses? The city is the pot, and we are the meat.'


    International Standard Version
    They keep saying, 'The right time to build families hasn't yet arrived. The city is the pot and we are the meat.'


    NET Bible
    They say, 'The time is not near to build houses; the city is a cooking pot and we are the meat in it.'


    New Heart English Bible
    who say, 'The time is not near to build houses: this is the caldron, and we are the meat.'


    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    They say, 'It's almost time to rebuild homes. This city is a cooking pot, and we're the meat.'


    JPS Tanakh 1917
    that say: The time is not near to build houses! this city is the caldron, and we are the flesh.


    New American Standard 1977
    who say, ‘Is not the time near to build houses? This city is the pot and we are the flesh.’


    Jubilee Bible 2000
    who say, It is not near; let us build houses; these shall be the caldron, and we the flesh.


    King James 2000 Bible
    Who say, It is not near for us to build houses: this city is the caldron, and we are the flesh.


    American King James Version
    Which say, It is not near; let us build houses: this city is the caldron, and we be the flesh.



    4Therefore prophesy against them; prophesy, son of man.”


    5Then the Spirit of theLord came on me, and he told me to say: “This is what the Lord says: That is what you are saying, you leaders in Israel, but I know what is going through your mind.
    6You have killed many people in this city and filled its streets with the dead.



    7“Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: The bodies you have thrown there are the meat and this city is the pot, but I will drive you out of it.
    8You fear the sword, and the sword is what I will bring against you, declares the Sovereign Lord.
    9I will drive you out of the city and deliver you into the hands of foreigners and inflict punishment on you.
    10You will fall by the sword, and I will execute judgment on you at the borders of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
    11This city will not be a pot for you, nor will you be the meat in it; I will execute judgment on you at the borders of Israel.
    12And you will know that I am theLord, for you have not followed my decrees or kept my laws but have conformed to the standards of the nations around you.”



    13Now as I was prophesying, Pelatiah son of Benaiah died. Then I fell facedown and cried out in a loud voice, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! Will you completely destroy the remnant of Israel?”

    From Ezekiel 11







    30 injured as Israeli forces storm Al-Aqsa Mosque during Ramadan

    Published on Jun 19, 2017



    Social media activists have reported that 30 worshippers from a number of countries were injured after Israeli forces stormed Al-Aqsa Mosque and used tear gas and rubber coated bullets within the mosque's walls. A number of people were also arrested and dragged out of the compound on 18 June 2017, the 23rd day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.







    .هُمُ الَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ لَا تُنفِقُوا عَلَى مَنْ عِندَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ حَتَّى يَنفَضُّوا وَلِلَّهِ خَزَائِنُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلَكِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَا يَفْقَهُونَ{


    063:007


    They are the ones who say: "Spend not on those who are with Allah's Messenger, until they desert him." And to Allah belong the treasures of the heavens and the earth, but the hypocrites comprehend not.



    يَقُولُونَ لَئِن رَّجَعْنَا إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ لَيُخْرِجَنَّ الْأَعَزُّ مِنْهَا الْأَذَلَّ وَلِلَّهِ الْعِزَّةُ وَلِرَسُولِهِ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلَكِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ {8
    063:008


    They (hyprocrites) say: "If we return to Al- Madinah, indeed the more honourable ('Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul, the chief of hyprocrites at Al-Madinah) will expel therefrom the meaner (i.e. Allah's Messenger SAW)." But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and to the believers, but the hypocrites know not.





    Shuhada Street in Hebron: Closed by Mistake 2009
    This is a short documentary on the closure of Shuhada Street in Hebron to Palestinians.




    Having Iftar together with the residents at the checkpoint in Shuhada street




    Israeli soldier : Only Jews walk here

    This is how Palestinian live under the occupation - Are you an Arab ? - yes I am - Only Jews walk here




    Israeli settler provokes Palestinian tour guide and Norwegian group in Sheikh Jarrah

    The 29th of March 2015 a Norwegian group visited Sheikh Jarrah in East Jerusalem. We visited Nabil Al Kurd`s house. Half of it has been occupied by israeli settlers, with support from Israel. As we were standing outside the house one of the settlers started to yell at us. He said that with the support of Bibi (Netanyahu) Palestine is finished. The movie had over 250 000 views on Facebook before it was removed (reason unknown). Please watch and spread the movie.






    Closing more of Shuhada street

    Published on 19 Jan 2015More new closures in Shuhada street. Monday the 19th of January, the occupation forces closed several shops and two houses that belong to the Dandis family. There was a big group of soldiers escorted by israeli police and members of the civil administration. According to the Israeli story the closures were for security reasons. The old lady who owns the house (Um Ouaida, 90 years old) was pushed by the soldiers who were welding her house, and she was sent to the nearest local hospital. The ambulance was banned from coming to the place on time.




    soldiers detain bodycheck and harass residents who pass sites where building has begun on illegally occupied land.

    Published on Feb 4, 2016


    3rd of februari 2016 - Palestinian residents walking through the checkpoint on the al-Sahla Street near the Ibrahimi mosque in the old city of Hebron are detained, body-checked and harrassed by Israeli forces





    "Skunk" liquid sprayed on a funeral

    Hebron In Friday, 24.2.2012, a short time after a demonstration in the same place was dispersed by Israeli security forces, a funeral was held and a group of men led a body for burial in the adjacent muslim cemetery. Border Police officers sprayed the funeral parade with the "skunk", a foul-smelling liquid used to disperse Palestinian protests in the West Bank. After the body was sprayed, the family took it back home to wash it, before it could be buried again.




    Palestinian neighborhood of Hebron skunked by the Israeli occupation army

    Published on 27 Nov 2015Hebron-H2, November 26, 2015 at 2 pm, an Israeli military skunkwater truck went on the main street of Qaitun, a Palestine Neighborhood and emptied its chemical container in the streets, also targeting houses and rooftops alongside the street. They did it without any security reason - just to make life hard and unpleasant in this Palestinian neighborhood of Hebron H2 (Israeli controlled). You can clearly see this in the video registration.

    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-20-2017 at 05:42 PM.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Those secularist zionist lgbt marching jews should be given half of england and america and not the holy land which is not theirs to give - since the governments of england and america claim to be sympathetic to them
    I have NO IDEA why are you posting all those videos. What are you trying to say? I can post videos too! I can tell you a lot about how Palestinian Arabs kill Israeli civilians in HUGE numbers. I can tell you about incitement to violence from Palestinian Authority and post VIDEOS of sermons from many imams that call for murderer of Jews. I can do all of this, but to what end?

    The videos you posted are taken out of context for the most part. Please understand that IDF has no standing orders to kill Palestinian Arabs. However, nobody would deny that IDF pushes Arabs to the brink. It’s a complicated situation and that is what happens when you have a dispute. And in this dispute it is the Arabs who have no desire to settle the dispute. So, they get pushed and controlled by the stronger power. When the Arabs decide to negotiate, everything that you object and post about will stop.

    There are other videos, you know…there are other points of view and also there is ample evidence that the lives of ordinary Palestinian Arabs have improved dramatically under Israeli control. Here are some factual observation I collected for you:

    1. Before June 5, 1967, no universities existed in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Today, there are more than 50 higher education institutions in the territories. Palestinians now have the highest per capita rate of university graduates in the Arab world.

    2. According to Al-Najah University, the infant mortality rate in 1967 was between 152 and 162 per 1,000 live births. It dropped to 132 in 1974 and reached 53 to 56 in 1985. The rate kept dropping, reaching—according to World Bank figures—less than 30 in 1993, when the Oslo Agreements were signed. It has kept dropping since then and has already reached 18 today.

    3. In 50 years of Israeli rule, 11,000 to 12,000 Palestinians have been killed, mostly terrorists or involved civilians. In fact, this conflict has claimed the lowest number of victims, less than the global average of traffic-related deaths and a lot less than the victims of murders in most big cities in the United States. Just for the sake of comparison, jihad massacres more than 20,000 people every year. That does not include wars.

    4. In general, the Palestinians' life expectancy has gone up from 48.6 in 1967 to about 73 (or 75, according to different sources) today. The population growth rate is among the highest in the world too—2.9% a year, according to World Bank figures for 2015, compared to a global average of 1.2% and the Arab world’s average of 2%.

    5. I can touch on more and more areas, in which an objective examination will reveal an amazing improvement in the past 50 years. For example, in the area of water. In 1967, only four of 708 Palestinian towns and villages were connected to running water. Today, 643 communities are connected to running water (97% of the population). The Palestinians' water consumption from natural sources has increased as well; while the Israelis’ water consumption has dropped (the Israelis are increasingly moving to desalinated water.

    It’s been 50 years since Israel gained control of the territories, and figures show that the Palestinians have actually experienced a major improvement. In most areas, their situation is much better than the situation of Arabs in neighboring countries. So the lies about the destruction must be shattered.

    That doesn’t mean there is no injustice. That doesn’t mean there is no room for criticism, even profound criticism, against certain actions committed by Israel. That doesn’t mean that there are no hooligans in the territories, even if they are a small minority. And that definitely doesn’t mean that we should march with our heads held high towards the disaster called one big state or a binational state.

    All it means is that we must refute the lies about what the Palestinians have experienced in the past 50 years under Israeli rule.
    Last edited by ethnhunt; 06-23-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Can you show me a single example of a western academic who condemns Israel but not targeted by the general academic enviroment?

    Same thing happened to Roger Garaudy. He was a Communist who backs up Israel in France but when he changed his opinions and became a prominent critic of Israel he got disowned by the Fench academic and intellectual enviroment who are dominated by the zionist propoganda. Thats not consipiracy, thats the reality..

    There are many!

    Stephen Hawking’s decision to cancel his participation in the Israeli Presidential Conference on the biggest issues facing humanity
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/left-...emium-1.524560

    In 2009, Neve Gordon nearly lost his job as a politics professor at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev after writing an op-ed arguing that Israel has become an apartheid state that can only be saved by an international boycott. One year later, in 2010, world-renowned art theorist Ariella Azoulay was denied tenure by Bar-Ilan University apparently due to her pro-Palestinian political views.

    I can list dosens of academics, some Isareli and some are not, with left-wing views who spoke out against Isarel. While they encountered issues with their views, none of them lost the job!

    All political groups looby to make their views popular. This is not a crime. It is a leveled playing field. There is no conspiracy here. If you have an issue with Zionism, please make it known and be prepared to defend your views. Please understand that Mr. Finkelstein is not shunned for his views on Israel. He is shunned for questionable scholarship, manipulation of historic facts and shady reasoning. His logic is nonexistent and his arguments can never stand up in any intellectual discussion. This is the reason why nobody in academia wants to talk to him or offer him a job. He is a clown with a Ph. D. that many think he does not deserve and should never been awarded.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    @ethnhunt - the videos I posted were to hilight the situation and plight of Muslim believers in Allah in the holy land - something that is rarely done in secularist mainstream news outlets which seem content with talking about the false delights and so falsely labelled "progressive" nature of Godless secularism in the "holy land".
    I refrain from posting the israeli gay pride marches of the past since I'd have to watch them again first, and it corrupts the soul. Ramadan has been a blessing in that respect.

    It is obvious to a clear thinking observer of history and current events that the jews who have been coaxed, coerced, and seduced into moving into the region haven't been instalked there for the sake of God, and that the situation has been staged in order to provoke turmoil and enmity in the region based upon ignorance and tribalism.
    If it was a secularist state they wanted - it would have been better to relocate them in Britain or America - since it is primarily the leaders of the nations mentioned who pretend to care about their welfare.
    Secondly, the use of God's name in provoking emotions is an obvious red herring and criminal bait and switch tactic - especially when considering the lgbt marches and lewd dress we have been witnessing in jerusalem over the past few years.
    Thirdly, if it was really for the sake of God, and not to keep turmoil and gatred going in the region, the decicion makers in the u.n wouldn't have drawn a border right up to the sacred mount and stopped with the western half of jerusalem, but would have provided half of the sacred mount and not left the causes of anger and feeling of being cheated ready to be provoked at whim by political extremists and mischief-makers- to me, it is a sacred place, but the deeds of the people and their nearness to God is what keeps it's sanctity before God, and God has made this clear throughout history when He has turned his mercy away from it due to the state of mind of the people in the region. It becomes a rock, like an idol, when people forget god and move their heart far from him whilst yet repeatedly chanting "the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord". The sanctity of the blood and honour of a righteous person is more sacred in God's sight than a piece of stone, and a heart which is sincere in it's yearning for guidance and justice in god's sight is like a diamond in conparison.
    If it were actually my decision, I personally would have never held on to the building or rock whilst seeing life and faith ebb away - I would gave said "accept islam and let us join together in doing good, or since you're here, take half and do justice and right conduct before God in His sacred mount and elsewhere, do not use this false indignation to commit injustice and throw peoole out of their homes in defiance of right and reason, and do not steal any land- you have no excuse, and do not harm the believers in setting up an Islamic state in which they can obey God in peace and be judged in disputes by God's law.

    I'm sure any thinking person can see that the Israeli state is not a Godly Jewish statewgich seeks to abide by the Torah, but rather an excuse for Godless secularists to foment hatred and jealousy in the holy land whilst displaying arrogance and defiance towards God in His holy sanctuary with the lewd dress and lgbt marches that arouse the wrath of God.
    The set up of the situation and drawing of boundaries shows a will from the outset of certain corrupt leaders to cause future turmoil and wars.

    I truly believe that these words found in the book of Jeremiah are from God - The creator of the Universe:


    1This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord:
    2“Stand at the gate of the Lord’s house and there proclaim this message:

    “ ‘Hear the word of the Lord, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the Lord.
    3This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place.
    4Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!”
    5If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever.
    8But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

    9“ ‘Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury,a burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, “We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things?
    11Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you?
    But I have been watching! declares the Lord.


    From Jeremiah, Chapter 7


    Now think, were the masonic leaders who worship the dragon in secret really seeking the good will of God when they set the jews up for slaughter in germany in order to move them to the holy land? Or where they criminally seeking to set up an endless war?
    Let us think about what's happening so that we can think more clearly in future.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-23-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Salaam

    Nonsense on your part Ethhunt.

    On the reasons why Norman Finkelstein lost his job. Going up against the Jewish establishment is a risky business.



    Hadeel Bashir

    This Man stands for truth no matter how bitter it is for his own people . He has a class and high morals. This world may not love him now but he ll go down in history as a man who stood for truth and honesty against all the odds. May Allah bless him and give him peace of heart and mind and contentment. ameen

    American Radical - The Trials Of Norman Finkelstein

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    ethnhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam
    Nonsense on your part Ethhunt.

    On the reasons why Norman Finkelstein lost his job. Going up against the Jewish establishment is a risky business.

    This Man stands for truth no matter how bitter it is for his own people . He has a class and high morals. This world may not love him now but he ll go down in history as a man who stood for truth and honesty against all the odds. May Allah bless him and give him peace of heart and mind and contentment. ameen
    Look…have you listened to the videos you posted? I have. There is nothing new there. Both Finkelstein and Chomsky are saying that Israel violates human rights. We all know that Israel does that every now and then. All countries do that! Israel is no exception.

    While there is no official policy in Israel that calls for violating anybody’s human rights, - there are many instances when IDF and even governmental decisions do that, sometimes directly and sometime not. Both Chomsky and Finkelstein scream about it every chance they get. They do not scream about human rights violations anywhere else on the planet, - their target, and YOUR ALSO, is Israel and Israel ONLY. Perhaps they, AND YOU, should be more even-handed, but I’ll let it go…

    Let me tell you THE REASON why what they say does not matter, and that Israel’s occasional violation of Arab human right does not matter either. Nobody in world cares enough to do anything about it, let along nobody is capable to do anything about it. There are 2 reasons for it, - first, it is as I already mentioned, - ALL COUNTRIES on the planet violate somebodies human rights. And second, - well, - as we say in a legal business, it all goes to the intent!

    What is the intent on part of Messrs. Finkelstein and Chomsky? This is the question, and the answer is very simple, - both of them advocate an eventual demise of Israel as a sovereign state. Their demands, if heeded, would lead to an annihilation of Israel. You should listen to the videos you posted, it’s all there!

    I hope you understand now, that Israel has no choice in this matter, - either do what Finkelstein and Chomsky and the rest of pro-Palestinian organizations demand, and, as a consequence, ‘close shop’, ‘pack up’ or simple die. Or…violate human rights of those who agitate and act in a belligerent manner against Israel, occasionally violating their rights in the process.

    You simple can’t have it both ways, - you can’t ask for Arab human rights to be respected, while many of those Arabs in the West Bank in Gaza actively involved in terrorism against Israel and advocacy against very existence of Israel.

    Funny thing is this, - both Finkelstein and Chomsky are very smart people. They completely understand what I just said to you. They know the implications of their advocacy. So, - in their scholarship, in books that they write and talks that they give, they conveniently avoid the issues I just outlined to you. Like blind kittens, they demand equality and rights for Arabs, while massaging or simple inventing history to support their views, without giving a second thought to the consequences of their demands.

    Please Remember that the Arabs whose human rights are violated by Israel, according to Finkelstein, are mostly in Israeli jails and Israelis call them criminals, because they committed crimes against civilians were tried in court with lawyers present and sentenced.

    This is why I said to you that both Chomsky and Finkelstein are intellectual clowns. Nobody wants to employ them, particularly Finkelstein. His scholarship is bogus and full of holes, either historic or logical. Believe me, if you were to pursue a degree in university, you would not want to have either of them as a professor, because you eventual degree will not be worth the paper it’s written on.
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    ethnhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    the videos I posted were to hilight the situation and plight of Muslim believers in Allah in the holy land - something that is rarely done in secularist mainstream news outlets which seem content with talking about the false delights and so falsely labelled "progressive" nature of Godless secularism in the "holy land".
    I refrain from posting the israeli gay pride marches of the past since I'd have to watch them again first, and it corrupts the soul. Ramadan has been a blessing in that respect.
    I agree, the life of Muslims in West Bank and Gaza is difficult. However, I disagree with you that Israel is a reason for their misery. Israel has nothing to do with their misery. While IDF are not angels and do deal with Arabs in a rather heavy-handed manner, still Israeli posture towards Palestinian Arabs is defensive, not offensive. If it were offensive, as you imply, Palestinian Arabs would be residing in Jordan by now…yet they are not!

    Further, - in the past 50 years, since the West Bank came under Israeli control, the lives of Arabs improved tremendously. Their lifestyle is much better than ANYWHERE in the Arab world, save for the emirates.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    It is obvious to a clear thinking observer of history and current events that the jews who have been coaxed, coerced, and seduced into moving into the region haven't been instalked there for the sake of God, and that the situation has been staged in order to provoke turmoil and enmity in the region based upon ignorance and tribalism.
    Common…you need to stop that. Are we having an intelligent conversation here or not? Any “…clear thinking observer of history…” would tell you that the Jews belong in the Middle East. They are an original people of that area we call Israel today. You can take a shovel and dig ANYWHERE in Israel or West Bank and you will find Hebraic artifacts. Jewish history of the Middle East is written in stone even on the Titus arch in Rome!

    The Jews of the world moved to British Palestine in 19th century in the SAME manner and the same time as the Arabs moved there from Arabia. Also, there always been Jewish villages and towns in Palestine from Roman times till the British took over. Jerusalem had always had Jewish majority at ANY time in human recorded history. UN gave the land to the Jews as a modern historical acknowledgment of the Jewish rights to that area.

    Furthermore, G-d has nothing to do with any of that, - these are human issues, not G-d’s. Israel, by definition is a secular democracy where Jewish Law informs Common Law. Other than that, it is a secular country.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    If it was a secularist state they wanted - it would have been better to relocate them in Britain or America - since it is primarily the leaders of the nations mentioned who pretend to care about their welfare.
    Why? Why is it better? What does religion have to do with affairs of State? In a democracy that Israel clearly is, - religion and state are separated.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Secondly, the use of God's name in provoking emotions is an obvious red herring and criminal bait and switch tactic - especially when considering the lgbt marches and lewd dress we have been witnessing in jerusalem over the past few years.
    I understand that you may have issues with gay people. Its fine, - you are entitled. What you are not entitled too, is to force others to conform to your point of view. Further, - if you must know, Torah in principle, simply says that no man can relate to other man in the same manner he relates to the woman. This is a clear prohibition of male homosexuality, but there is nothing to suggest that women fall under the same prohibition. However, religion aside, no religious prohibition is relevant in a secular society.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Thirdly, if it was really for the sake of God, and not to keep turmoil and gatred going in the region, the decicion makers in the u.n wouldn't have drawn a border right up to the sacred mount and stopped with the western half of jerusalem, but would have provided half of the sacred mount and not left the causes of anger and feeling of being cheated ready to be provoked at whim by political extremists and mischief-makers- to me, it is a sacred place, but the deeds of the people and their nearness to God is what keeps it's sanctity before God, and God has made this clear throughout history when He has turned his mercy away from it due to the state of mind of the people in the region. It becomes a rock, like an idol, when people forget god and move their heart far from him whilst yet repeatedly chanting "the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord". The sanctity of the blood and honour of a righteous person is more sacred in God's sight than a piece of stone, and a heart which is sincere in it's yearning for guidance and justice in god's sight is like a diamond in conparison.
    I see…but the Temple Mount is holly to Jews also! UN’s decision was violated by Jordan in 1948. Jordan attacked Israel and captured the Temple Mount along with most Eastern Jerusalem and was in possession of it till 1967. No Jews were allowed to pray at Jewish holy sites during that time.

    Today, Muslims are free to pray anywhere they want in the Temple Mount. And, out of respect to Muslims, Jordanian-led Waqf is in charge of ALL Muslim places in Jerusalem. Go and pray at will! Nobody will stop you!

    UN partitioned the Land 50-50, but the Arabs would not agree to it, went to war and lost it. So the reality on the ground as a result of that loss is different now, and it is only fair that it is different. Your religious fervor is respected and you are free to exercise it, in full contrast to WHAT Jordan did in from 1948 till 1967. You should not feel cheated out of anything, because you are not being cheated.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    If it were actually my decision, I personally would have never held on to the building or rock whilst seeing life and faith ebb away - I would gave said "accept islam and let us join together in doing good, or since you're here, take half and do justice and right conduct before God in His sacred mount and elsewhere, do not use this false indignation to commit injustice and throw peoole out of their homes in defiance of right and reason, and do not steal any land- you have no excuse, and do not harm the believers in setting up an Islamic state in which they can obey God in peace and be judged in disputes by God's law.
    There is no compulsion in religion, says Quran. So, - while you may want the World to "accept Islam and let us join together in doing good…”, others do disagree and that is their right to disagree.

    G-d, through prophet Nathan, did warn King David not to build the Temple for the fear similar to what you state. David did not listen and G-d eventually agreed. That is what the Jews believe. The Jews do not compel you to change your mind, they respect your believes. This is why Jerusalem’s Muslim places of worship is under police and legal protection and are free to all. Israel actually does what it preaches, - freedom of religion is sacrosanct there. Come and be Muslim!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    I'm sure any thinking person can see that the Israeli state is not a Godly Jewish statewgich seeks to abide by the Torah, but rather an excuse for Godless secularists to foment hatred and jealousy in the holy land whilst displaying arrogance and defiance towards God in His holy sanctuary with the lewd dress and lgbt marches that arouse the wrath of God.
    The set up of the situation and drawing of boundaries shows a will from the outset of certain corrupt leaders to cause future turmoil and wars.
    No, - you got it all wrong. Israel is a secular state by definition. It is also a Jewish State. There is no contradiction here. One can be Jewish and secular in the same time. Judaism, much like Islam is a complete system, but Judaism does not necessarily bring G-d into daily affairs. Judaism is a legal system whereby people vote based on values from Torah.

    G-d votes too, but only gets ONE vote. Jewish Law, unlike Sharia, is flexible and does change with the times. Torah does not change. Jewish values do not change. But an interpretation of those values does, as majority rules. This is how the Jews governed themselves for the past 4000 years.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    I truly believe that these words found in the book of Jeremiah are from God - The creator of the Universe:


    1This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord:
    2“Stand at the gate of the Lord’s house and there proclaim this message:

    “ ‘Hear the word of the Lord, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the Lord.
    3This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place.
    4Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!”
    5If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever.
    8But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

    9“ ‘Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury,a burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, “We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things?
    11Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you?
    But I have been watching! declares the Lord.


    From Jeremiah, Chapter 7


    Now think, were the masonic leaders who worship the dragon in secret really seeking the good will of God when they set the jews up for slaughter in germany in order to move them to the holy land? Or where they criminally seeking to set up an endless war?
    Let us think about what's happening so that we can think more clearly in future.
    Yes, I read Jeremiah too. Many times! He states what Torah states. What does his words have to do with the Nazis? Nothing! You are making things up here with no prove and no logic.

    Hitler blamed the Jews for all the ills of the World. Nothing new here, Jews have always been blamed. They are the victim here. Jews are just like you and me, - no different, and they want the same things you want and I want. They are not any more special then you are or me. And they say so themselves!

    The slaughter of Jews in WW2 was instrumental in creation of Israel, in the SAME way as WW1 was instrumental in creating Syria, Trance-Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Tunisia, etc. Yes, - all those Muslim and some Arab countries were created in about the same time as Israel was created.

    Let the conspiracy theories go…they do not belong in an intelligent conversation.
    Last edited by ethnhunt; 06-25-2017 at 06:39 PM.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by ethnhunt View Post
    This is why I said to you that both Chomsky and Finkelstein are intellectual clowns. Nobody wants to employ them, particularly Finkelstein. His scholarship is bogus and full of holes, either historic or logical. Believe me, if you were to pursue a degree in university, you would not want to have either of them as a professor, because you eventual degree will not be worth the paper it’s written on.
    Chomsky an intellectual clown? Actually, he's the world's most cited living academic. He's an MIT professor at that, such an academic superstar that his position is unassailable even by an intellectual-industrial complex that hates him.

    I finally found the time to reply to you, but now I'm not sure whether it's worth my time. I have a feeling you will simply categorically reject everything I say as untrue, and any source that doesn't align with your preconceived views as having ipso facto proven itself biased and invalid.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you ethnhunt;

    Furthermore, G-d has nothing to do with any of that, - these are human issues, not G-d’s. Israel, by definition is a secular democracy where Jewish Law informs Common Law. Other than that, it is a secular country.
    Agreed, it is a secular state, and they make up their own secular laws. If they complied with God's law, then they would have to take note of passages like.........

    Leviticus 19
    33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
    .
    Ezekiel 47
    21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Leviticus 24
    You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 22:21
    "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

    Leviticus 19:10
    Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

    Why? Why is it better? What does religion have to do with affairs of State? In a democracy that Israel clearly is, - religion and state are separated.
    See above

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
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    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Salaam

    Another update

    Chomsky: U.S. Is Helping Israel Annex So Much Land, Palestinians Could Have Essentially Nothing


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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you ethnhunt;

    UN partitioned the Land 50-50, but the Arabs would not agree to it,
    I believe it was the Jews who were not content with a 50-50 split.

    In the spirit of praying to One God
    Eric
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
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    ethnhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    Chomsky an intellectual clown? Actually, he's the world's most cited living academic. He's an MIT professor at that, such an academic superstar that his position is unassailable even by an intellectual-industrial complex that hates him.
    The fact the Mr. Chomsky is an MIT professor does not qualify him as a ‘superstar’ in anything. What may qualify him as a ‘superstar’ is his scholarly work, which is very good indeed…but not all of it. In a way I am qualified to point this out to you, because although am not an MIT professor, but I am an MIT graduate (physics). Believe me, - MIT has its share of nobodies. I did graduate work there and I know this first hand.

    I am extremely aware of Mr. Chomsky’s work, even heard him speak… and I know how his work informs related fields. His field is linguistics. His academic work is very good, but his attitude towards where that work needs to go is not so much. For instance, the Artificial Intelligence guys and Media Labs people do not think much of him, and for a very good reason. No matter…this is not what we are discussing here. I called him an intellectual clown, because of his POLITICAL views, not his expertise in linguistics. You absolutely cannot mix those issues together. To wit, - Rogers Waters is a great musician, but he will never win a political office due to his discredited political views.

    Mr. Chomsky is a classic left-wing Marxist of Berny Sanders variety. But he is a Zionist! I bet it comes as a surprise to you. Let me tell a bit about Mr. Chomsky, so that you too will know what he is and what he is not…

    “Today Mr. Chomsky is something of a saint for the far-Left. Thus they have been alarmed at a strange, under-reported reality: Chomsky the anti-nationalist and anti-imperialist voice is, when all is said and done, a Zionist supporter of the ethnically-Jewish state of Israel. Look here:

    · Chomsky opposes the cultural boycott of Israel

    · Chomsky denies the Israel Lobby has been a critical influence on U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East

    · Chomsky is opposed to the right of return for descendants of the Palestinian refugees who were expelled from their lands in the 1948 Israeli-Arab War. Amazingly, Chomsky instead supports the right of return only for those Palestinians who were themselves expelled, a generation which is so old it is on the verge of dying off!

    · Chomsky supports the “two-state solution” as the only “practical” one. This is again rather strange: on all other topics, Chomsky’s far-Left politics have never been constrained by issues of “practicality” or mainstream elite appeal. Furthermore, in any case, a two-state solution is perfectly impossible so long as there are over 500,000 settlers in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

    Chomsky, is as much of a Zionist as Netanyahu. But Chomsky is a far better and more subtle advocate of a Jewish State for his people than Netanyahu, undermining anti-Zionism where it would otherwise be most likely to flourish: the far-Left!

    Chomsky has increasingly come into conflict with Israeli leftists, notably in a book by Ilan Pappe
    because Mr. Pappe advocates a “one-state solution” by creating a binational Jewish-Palestinian state, with Jews as a minority…and Chomsky is against this.

    Mr. Chomsky is mainly known for his systematic opposition to “imperialist” U.S. foreign policy and to “corporate power” within the United States. This includes a claim that the mass media essentially dominates public opinion (look up his book ‘Manufacturing Consent’), its elite controllers carefully tuning the message in the service of U.S. imperialist and corporate interests.

    I have never found Mr. Chomsky’s particular brand of ‘let’s hag everybody’ internationalist anarcho-communism particularly persuasive. Chomsky suggests academics and students are going to impotently protest and nag their way to a better world, which strikes me as a conceited and dishonest view.

    Chomsky’s position on Israel however, reveals him to be the most subtle Zionist, of 1920’s kind, actually being just another (conscious or not) hypocritical ethnic activist.

    One of Chomsky’s foundational moral arguments is the following, - justifying his systematic criticism of the U.S. government (as opposed to foreign powers):

    But why limit yourself to your own government? Governments after all, are only the agents of elites. Why don’t we criticize the most privileged and influential ethnic elite in the U.S.? If, in public discourse, people oppose and criticize supposed White privilege and ethnocentrism, then one must also criticize far greater Jewish privilege and ethnocentrism. Right? LOL!

    So much for Chomsky. He won’t be read or remembered (except perhaps as a warning).”

    To summarize, - I called Mr. Chomsky an intellectual clown mostly due to this intellectually dishonest political position that on the surface looks like ‘next best thing since sliced bread’, but in reality would lead to the demise of Israel. I am not sure if he understand this, and I hope he does not. Because if he does, then that makes him identical to the likes of people that quote him the most today, - yes…his views today appear on neo-Nazi sites and pro-Palestinian forums that dream and openly advocate for Israel's destruction and also quoted by openly anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    I finally found the time to reply to you, but now I'm not sure whether it's worth my time. I have a feeling you will simply categorically reject everything I say as untrue, and any source that doesn't align with your preconceived views as having ipso facto proven itself biased and invalid.
    Well…well…So, - you just abdicate and call it a day…Please note that I never simply rejected your views. I told you WHY I reject them. You are welcome to argue in order to support your views. But you choose not too…why? I can (and do) substantiate EVERYTHING I ever wrote in response to you. Can you do the same? So far you have not been able to do that.

    My point remains, - Palestinian Authority and their apologists, like Mr. Finkelstein, and to a much lesser degree Mr. Chomsky, are responsible for most of the misery that Palestinian Arabs currently experiencing. Israel is not at fault here.

    The PA’s absolute rejectionizm of ALL Israeli peace proposal and open support for terrorism against Jewish population, is a testament to their desire to eventually get rid of the Jews for good. They want another Arab state instead of Israel, not next to Israel.

    The work by Finkelstein and Chomsky is also leading to that end. This is not a path to coexistence and peace. This is a path to war. History does not support the Arab narrative here, - they lost all conflicts so far. Do you really think that anyone wants another war? I am sure that Israelis do not, but the Palestinian Arabs, well…no so much.

    It does not strike me as very intelligent, but, - hey…go and listen to Mr. Finkelstein and his ‘Israel must commit suicide by adhering to human rights standards as specified by Israel’s enemies’! Sure, Mr. Finkelstein…we are all stupid!

    - - - Updated - - -

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you ethnhunt;



    Agreed, it is a secular state, and they make up their own secular laws. If they complied with God's law, then they would have to take note of passages like.........

    Leviticus 19
    33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
    .
    Ezekiel 47
    21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Leviticus 24
    You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 22:21
    "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

    Leviticus 19:10
    Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.



    See above

    In the spirit of searching for God,

    Eric
    You jest, Eric!

    On one hand you agree that Israel is a secular country, but you immediately chastise Israel for not religiously follow the laws of Torah! You can't have it both ways.

    Please understand that, first of all, you quote Leviticus and Exodus as translated in what appears to be King James Bible, which FAR from accurate and you quote this out of context.

    Secondly, if you were to continue on this line of reasoning by bringing a 5000 year old Bible into 21st century, you also must adhere to a much later written Jewish Law as deliberated in Talmudic tradition and writings of 2-6 century. You will quickly discover that in the case of self-defense many passages from Leviticus might be suspended and superseded by a different understandings.

    Today, Israel finds itself in a rather defensive posture relative to PA's position. Israel is waiting for a new PA leadership that just might deal with Israeli peace proposals. While waiting for it, Israel must treat Palestinian Arabs as a hostile population, which without a doubt and by their own admission, - it is.

    As you see, - the reality is by far more complex then what you are making it out to be. If Bible can be applied and all parties were to respect it, then perhaps it might work. But that is a wishful thinking.

    Let me put it to you in away that you may find plausible, - in order to 'turn the other cheek' and achieve what that pronouncement demands, ALL MUST 'turn the other cheek'! If its only you who is doing it, - well, - then that act will be the last thing you will ever do on this Earth. At best, - you will be eaten last!

    - - - Updated - - -

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you ethnhunt;

    I believe it was the Jews who were not content with a 50-50 split.

    In the spirit of praying to One God
    Eric
    No. You are wrong. It is on record that Ben-Gurion, in his capacity as a leader, publicly and numerous times pronounced that the Jews agree to the partition. There is ample evidence including the videos. Please google this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam

    Another update
    Chomsky: U.S. Is Helping Israel Annex So Much Land, Palestinians Could Have Essentially Nothing
    Yes, indeed. Please look up the Israeli peace proposals to PA in 2000, 2009 and 2013. I like 2000 deal the best. To summarize, - the Arabs were offered up to 97% of the land that they asked for. Yet, they said NO!
    They were also offered economical rehabilitation, defense treaty, open market leading to open borders. They said NO to all of that.

    As it stands, in an absents of an agreement, Israel may annex 'Area C' and unilaterally delve-define its borders. Any country in this situation will probably do the same. Clearly the Arabs, as led by PA, do not want to have a deal. Therefore they will only loose more as time goes on. That is how the world works.
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  18. #134
    Serinity's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'



    I want these israelites gone. Terrible for killing small children and taking our homes.

    And Allah knows best.
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you ethnhunt;

    You jest, Eric!

    On one hand you agree that Israel is a secular country, but you immediately chastise Israel for not religiously follow the laws of Torah! You can't have it both ways.
    I think you have misread my post, i said, 'Agreed, it is a secular state, and they make up their own secular laws. If they complied with God's law, then they would have to take note of passages like.........'

    On the one hand the Jews want the Biblical state of Israel to exist, but they do not want to follow God's law.

    Please understand that, first of all, you quote Leviticus and Exodus as translated in what appears to be King James Bible, which FAR from accurate and you quote this out of context.
    The quotes were from the NIV and not the KJ as you suggest. If I have taken these passages out of context, then what true context do you have in mind?

    Secondly, if you were to continue on this line of reasoning by bringing a 5000 year old Bible into 21st century, you also must adhere to a much later written Jewish Law as deliberated in Talmudic tradition and writings of 2-6 century. You will quickly discover that in the case of self-defense many passages from Leviticus might be suspended and superseded by a different understandings.
    I am not sure how you call their action defensive, The Jews came in large numbers, they changed the name of the country from Palestine to Israel, and they used force.

    As you see, - the reality is by far more complex then what you are making it out to be. If Bible can be applied and all parties were to respect it, then perhaps it might work. But that is a wishful thinking.
    At some point, we shall all have to stand before God.

    Let me put it to you in away that you may find plausible, - in order to 'turn the other cheek' and achieve what that pronouncement demands, ALL MUST 'turn the other cheek'! If its only you who is doing it, - well, - then that act will be the last thing you will ever do on this Earth. At best, - you will be eaten last!
    Again, at some point we shall all have to stand before God, life is ultimately not about the few years we spend on this planet.

    In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

    Eric
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    I think you have misread my post, i said, 'Agreed, it is a secular state, and they make up their own secular laws. If they complied with God's law, then they would have to take note of passages like.........'

    On the one hand the Jews want the Biblical state of Israel to exist, but they do not want to follow God's law.
    I see..ok…I must tell you that nobody ever wanted a Biblical State of Israel. People wanted a democratic State of Israel in the place where the Jews came from. Israel is a Jewish State, not the State for the Jews. There is a fundamental difference. Many ethnic groups live in Israel today, Jews are a majority. But there are the Muslims, the Druze, the Christians (of all kinds), the atheist the Bahaj, the Samaritans, etc. All are treated equally under the law, all are represented in the parliament. You will find them in all spheres of life, - the courts, the Army, the medical profession, the teachers, etc. etc.

    Biblical law, as you put it, is not a Law. Biblical law is merely a suggestion, - a directive from G-d. It is definitely a basis for what we call today a Judeo-Christian jurisprudence as enshrined in a British Law, which is practiced in various forms in all Western countries, including US and Canada.

    Even though I am not a Jew, nor am I an Israeli, - still, I like the Jewish take on it, - whereby Torah is used as a guide to Civil law. Nobody in their right mind will ever use Leviticus or Exodus passages directly, besides they were never meant to be used verbatim. Jewish tradition assigns a vote to G-d, but only one vote! We, the people, have a ‘free will’, given to us by G-d. We use that ‘free will’ as we see fit and face consequences for our decisions.

    The ideas from Leviticus and Exodus are in fact used in Israeli Law and British law, with provisions and restrictions as mandated by parliament. By insinuating that G-d’s law is missing from the picture you display a lack of understanding of how the democracy works.

    If we were to take your approach today, we’d be cutting hands and heads off people for crimes that we cannot possibly construe as crimes in 21st century. For example, - Biblical Law demands that you kill the rebellious child for disagreeing with the command of the parent, - but we do not do that!

    You cannot pick and choose here, - you cannot shop for the Biblical Laws that you like and disregard those laws that do not appeal to you. If you use one, you must use them all! And that approach will never work in an intelligent circles. Therefore, the law must ‘bend’ to the ‘needs’ of the people at the time.

    Times will change and the Law will change along with it. Jewish Law does recognize this today and it always recognized this. Israelis take their clues from Torah and apply them to modern times within the British Law provisions. The Catholic Church, in a way, attempts to do the same through Papal pronouncements and the Protestants look to their leaders for guidance. But we do not really have a Church law. Sharia, on the other hand, is fairly inflexible and the commentaries are not in general agreement, so its coexistence with laws in use today is dubious.

    The Jews are in a better position, because their way is deep in interpretation of Torah and therefore the law as derived from Torah is flexible and serves the people, instead of people serving the law. G-d does not mind this, because G-d has given the law to the people to interpret as required. That is Jewish tradition.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    The quotes were from the NIV and not the KJ as you suggest. If I have taken these passages out of context, then what true context do you have in mind?
    The context of the passages in both Leviticus and Exodus applies to tribal society, where there is no tradition for legal scholarship. This is NOT what we have today.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    I am not sure how you call their action defensive, The Jews came in large numbers, they changed the name of the country from Palestine to Israel, and they used force.
    Well, - no…none of what you are saying is even remotely true.

    Israel is in a defensive posture because it is trying to deal with Palestinian Arabs. If Israel was in offensive posture, then those Palestine Arabs would be residing in Jordan by now. Israel is in awaiting mode, - waiting to PA to come to the table and deal. This is defensive!

    The Jews came in much less numbers then the Muslims did. Both groups saw large emigration happening in the 19th century, with numbers increasing in a latter part of it. British authorities after 1st World War instituted a limit on Jewish emigration to about 15,000 per year, but there was no limit on Arab emigration in to the area. Check the published data, - it’s all there.

    In 1947 there were 600,000 Jews in Palestine and about 1.1 million Muslims. After Israel became a country, emigration to Israel became a function of Israeli Law, in the same manner as when Jordan became a country in 1946, its emigration was controlled by its law. Israel legalized the Law of Return allowing any Jew to come and live in Israel free of prosecution. As you know the Jews have unjustly been prosecuted virtually everywhere in World, starting with Roman exile in a year 134. So, the Jewish State was a logical sanctuary for those Jews who still being prosecuted at the time, - The Russian Jews and the Jews in Arab countries as an example might be.

    Furthermore, - the Jews never “…changed the name of the country from Palestine to Israel…” There was never a country called Palestine. It is also true today. That land had no country affiliation since the Romans exiled the Jews in 2nd century. Before it was known as Judea.

    That land was under control of many empires, Turkish being the last one. That land was always treated as an afterthought, an unimportant piece of real estate, by all powers that ever controlled it from 2nd century on, and until the end of 19th century, when the Jews started to emigrate there and ultimately rebuilt the place.

    The crusaders briefly had a ‘beef’ with Muslims, but it only barely lasted 3 centuries. The rest of the time of was desolate place with Jewish, Muslim, Druze and Christian villages spread out all over. Read the accounts available that describe that reality, - several British travelers left notes in 16 century and famously Mark Twain wrote about it in 19th century. Look it up.

    Anyway, your assertion that Palestinian Arabs somehow had a country called Palestine and that the Jews took it from them is plainly untrue. Furthermore, the war in 1948, as ALL wars, was stared by Arabs! So, the Israel used force in self defense!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    At some point, we shall all have to stand before God.

    … life is ultimately not about the few years we spend on this planet.
    Perhaps…perhaps not. What does it matter? Again, I like the rabbinical approach to those issues, - let’s not talk about the things we have no idea about. Let’s talk about things that inform our lives and effect our reality.
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    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Sorry ethnhunt nobodys buying.

    jewsshutitdown800x445 1 - Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'
    Last edited by سيف الله; 07-09-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Sorry ethnhunt nobodys buying.
    I know...truth always hurts! Good luck with your illusions.

    Believe me, the world is not going to wait for you.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    The man who is saying why Palestinians did not accept the UN partition,
    I will let one of your own men,answer you.
    https://youtu.be/TOaxAckFCuQ
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Watch it whole.
    It is worth the time.
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