Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?

**Mustafa16** · 03-03-2017

Horrendous and systematic persecution of bahais in Iran (and everywhere)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Gulenists in Turkey (and not even because they are considered heretics, but that certainly helps)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan and Palestine.
Horrendous abuse of Christians
Horrendous abuse of Jews
genocide against yazidis
sunni-shia conflict
what the heck is wrong with the muslim world? we complain about the abuse of Muslims in Burma, Kashmir, Palestine, Syria (which by the way, is also a place where yezidis and Christians are being butchered) and east Turkestan, the CAR in Africa, etc.
to be a muslim is to stand up for human rights anywhere and everywhere......
why do we only complain about ourselves? we hardly complain for the rights of non muslims, unless we live in the lands of the kuffar and fear lynching or hate crimes, but in the dar al islam, we don't fear, we let loose.....human beings are worthy of being treated with dignity....how would you like it if that was your sister, your daughter, your mother, your son, your brother, your friend, your father, etc.?
we complain about how human rights groups make "misleading reports" about Islamic countries....how is it misleading when you are not allowed to criticize your ruler because he is king or president or prime minister, where heads of state are thieves who hoard billions in wealth on enormous palaces, where corruption is rampant, where journalists are jailed, where insulting a leader IS A CRIME! where torture is rampant, where you are guilty until proven innocent....has anyone ever read the life of our Prophet (PBUH) and his companions? a kharijite came and insulted Umar (RA) in the masjid! they told Umar (RA) to react, but he said, he has a right to say what he wants...! astaghfirullah I am ashamed to be associated with the likes of Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

First of all, wiki is not a valid source to be going to. You would not be able to use it as a valid reference in an academic paper. Anyone can edit it and put whatever they want in there, and we have seen this done a number of times, especially zionist groups.

Secondly, what is mentioned in that wiki or western resources is often exaggerated. Based on this exaggeration and lies, muslim nations are bombed and split in half, like they did with Sudan.

Thirdly, the oppression that happens, while being unislamic and not good, is no where near whats happening in the nations you named. A little perspective on your part may help you understand that.

Iran is a shia state, they oppress sunnis as well.
Gulenists attempted coup and treason against Turkey, any nation would do the same
ahamdis/Qadiani are enemies of Islam, there are over 600 of them working in the zinoist amry and spying for them in pakistan.
sunni-shia conflict is a few centuries old, nothing new there

you are comparing those with palestine, burma, kashmir and syria?
palestine has been under occupation since 1948, all their land stolen and living in an open prison being bombed with illegal weapons and chemicals amounting to war crimes
kashmir has been under occupation since british left in 1947 and people continue to be oppressed, raped, killed in a state prison with over a million indian soldiers doing as they wish
syria, well you have to be blind to not see the genocide being committed there
Burma, the rohingya are the most oppressed minority in the world according to UN. They are facing mass rape, torture and genocide. Have you seen their pictures?
CAR, christians are committing a genocide against the muslims, even going far as killing the muslims and eating them

So are you trying to compare the oppression of other groups with genocide of these?
While no evil and oppression of any group is acceptable but to equate what others facing with the genocide and war crimes against these nations is an insult to their suffering and while your concerns for others is admirable, you lack perspective and understanding of what really is going.

So if you feel ashamed to associate with the likes of Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc. Then don't. We as Muslims will stand by and for the Muslims that are being wiped out from their lands and for the sisters being kept in rape prisons to be violated every day, every hour, every minute.

So while you waste time reading useless stuff on websites, we see with our own eyes of what's happening in the world.

**Simple_Person** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

Gulenists attempted coup and treason against Turkey, any nation would do the same
.

May i know based on what do you say this? As far as i have heard was Erdogan himself claiming such a thing. Watching the "coup" myself it looked like such a joke that mostly seemed like it was planned to fail. Looking even further it came to be very convenient for Erdogan to start "cleaning" Turkey from every person who was NOT pro-Erdogan. We all knew Gulen supporter were among the Turks and Erdogan have becoming a anti-Gulen. However whatever happens, it is being branded terrorist act blamed on Gulen. Based on what? Based on the "truthfulness of Erdogan".

So i agree with you wikipedia not being a good source for your information, however i am kind of curious especially about this one where you base your conclusion on.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

May i know based on what do you say this? As far as i have heard was Erdogan himself claiming such a thing. Watching the "coup" myself it looked like such a joke that mostly seemed like it was planned to fail. Looking even further it came to be very convenient for Erdogan to start "cleaning" Turkey from every person who was NOT pro-Erdogan. We all knew Gulen supporter were among the Turks and Erdogan have becoming a anti-Gulen. However whatever happens, it is being branded terrorist act blamed on Gulen. Based on what? Based on the "truthfulness of Erdogan".

So i agree with you wikipedia not being a good source for your information, however i am kind of curious especially about this one where you base your conclusion on.

if you search online you will find many news outlets stating this. The renegade troops were gulenists. There is a thread on this forum that started when that incident happened. I suggest looking that up, plenty of information in there.

**sister herb** · 03-06-2017

There isn´t real evidencies that the coup was planned by gulanists. Have they admitted it was? In kind of political situation we never can be sure if someone who is firmly against the gulanist movement and say something alike about them. It all may be only propaganda against the political opponents.

**Simple_Person** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

if you search online you will find many news outlets stating this. The renegade troops were gulenists. There is a thread on this forum that started when that incident happened. I suggest looking that up, plenty of information in there.

Wait just a minute. "many news outlets". What was their source? "The renegade troops were gulenists"...based on what do you claim this? Again don't get me wrong.. i am as pro-Gulen as that i am pro-Erdogan..which is rather not pro both of them. However, i don't go by feeling although i may not be pro-somebody or anti-somebody. I want clear sources.

So again, based on what i saw and how the "coup" was applied..it all was looking like being planned to fail.

I would suggest to watch how the coup against Hugo Chávez was done. THAT WAS A COUP!!..So if we would compare, the one in Turkey looked like a drill you could say.

**sister herb** · 03-06-2017

I have seen that military coups are normal way to change the political power from one party to another in many countries - like in Egypt. If that´s normal part of their political culture, why to call those troops as "renegade"?

Ooops yep of course. The winner makes decisions whose are heros and whose are villains.

**Mustafa16** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

First of all, wiki is not a valid source to be going to. You would not be able to use it as a valid reference in an academic paper. Anyone can edit it and put whatever they want in there, and we have seen this done a number of times, especially zionist groups.

Secondly, what is mentioned in that wiki or western resources is often exaggerated. Based on this exaggeration and lies, muslim nations are bombed and split in half, like they did with Sudan.

Thirdly, the oppression that happens, while being unislamic and not good, is no where near whats happening in the nations you named. A little perspective on your part may help you understand that.

Iran is a shia state, they oppress sunnis as well.
Gulenists attempted coup and treason against Turkey, any nation would do the same
ahamdis/Qadiani are enemies of Islam, there are over 600 of them working in the zinoist amry and spying for them in pakistan.
sunni-shia conflict is a few centuries old, nothing new there

you are comparing those with palestine, burma, kashmir and syria?
palestine has been under occupation since 1948, all their land stolen and living in an open prison being bombed with illegal weapons and chemicals amounting to war crimes
kashmir has been under occupation since british left in 1947 and people continue to be oppressed, raped, killed in a state prison with over a million indian soldiers doing as they wish
syria, well you have to be blind to not see the genocide being committed there
Burma, the rohingya are the most oppressed minority in the world according to UN. They are facing mass rape, torture and genocide. Have you seen their pictures?
CAR, christians are committing a genocide against the muslims, even going far as killing the muslims and eating them

So are you trying to compare the oppression of other groups with genocide of these?
While no evil and oppression of any group is acceptable but to equate what others facing with the genocide and war crimes against these nations is an insult to their suffering and while your concerns for others is admirable, you lack perspective and understanding of what really is going.

So if you feel ashamed to associate with the likes of Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc. Then don't. We as Muslims will stand by and for the Muslims that are being wiped out from their lands and for the sisters being kept in rape prisons to be violated every day, every hour, every minute.

So while you waste time reading useless stuff on websites, we see with our own eyes of what's happening in the world.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/136568
http://aktifhaber.com/dunya/nato-erd...ti-h91671.html

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

https://euobserver.com/foreign/136568
http://aktifhaber.com/dunya/nato-erd...ti-h91671.html

And you expect us to believe what western intelligence agencies are saying? the ones engaged in kidnapping and torturing Muslims and war propaganda to further their national interest?

Originally Posted by sister herb

I have seen that military coups are normal way to change the political power from one party to another in many countries - like in Egypt. If that´s normal part of their political culture, why to call those troops as "renegade"?

yes, coup are one way to change government. Turkish military is very secular, a Remanent of kemal era , that has overthrown several previous governments when they thought it was getting too islamic for their secularism. The military tried a few times with the current government as well but failed. This coup, however, was different. It was not a military wide coup, rather it was a small faction holding gulenist ideology and the fact that the people came out on the streets to stop them shows what the people of the nation want. Egypt is a different story, those are puppets put in place by the west who have been killing and raping their own citizens, especially young college students.

**Simple_Person** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

And you expect us to believe what western intelligence agencies are saying? the ones engaged in kidnapping and torturing Muslims and war propaganda to further their national interest?

yes, coup are one way to change government. Turkish military is very secular, a Remanent of kemal era , that has overthrown several previous governments when they thought it was getting too islamic for their secularism. The military tried a few times with the current government as well but failed. This coup, however, was different. It was not a military wide coup, rather it was a small faction holding gulenist ideology and the fact that the people came out on the streets to stop them shows what the people of the nation want. Egypt is a different story, those are puppets put in place by the west who have been killing and raping their own citizens, especially young college students.

I BEG you to also answer these questions, because you woken up my curiosity as well..

Wait just a minute. "many news outlets". What was their source? "The renegade troops were gulenists"...based on what do you claim this? Again don't get me wrong.. i am as pro-Gulen as that i am pro-Erdogan..which is rather not pro both of them. However, i don't go by feeling although i may not be pro-somebody or anti-somebody. I want clear sources.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

I BEG you to also answer these questions, because you woken up my curiosity as well..

Wait just a minute. "many news outlets". What was their source? "The renegade troops were gulenists"...based on what do you claim this? Again don't get me wrong.. i am as pro-Gulen as that i am pro-Erdogan..which is rather not pro both of them. However, i don't go by feeling although i may not be pro-somebody or anti-somebody. I want clear sources.

I would suggest looking up the thread when this coup attempt happened. I think plenty of useful information was shared in there.

**Simple_Person** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

I would suggest looking up the thread when this coup attempt happened. I think plenty of useful information was shared in there.

What is that topic called?

btw, i will get back to you if i find things based on assumptions and simple hatred. Know i ask very critical questions and if something is based on the truth, no questions is too critical.

**sister herb** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

Egypt is a different story, those are puppets put in place by the west who have been killing and raping their own citizens, especially young college students.

If we believe the eye testimonies of those gulenists whose have been jailed in Turkey, they say that this is just same what Turkish government is doing for another Turkish people in jails.

And being the puppet of the West? Well, nowadays Erdogan seems to be more as the puppet of Putin, than only the West. Is it any better?

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by sister herb

If we believe the eye testimonies of those gulenists whose have been jailed in Turkey, they say that this is just same what Turkish government is doing for another Turkish people in jails.

And being the puppet of the West? Well, nowadays Erdogan seems to be more as the puppet of Putin, than only the West. Is it any better?

There is a vast difference between erdogan and egypt's tyrants. One has been good for his nation and the other has not. Ask other Muslims and see how they feel about it.

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

What is that topic called?

btw, i will get back to you if i find things based on assumptions and simple hatred. Know i ask very critical questions and if something is based on the truth, no questions is too critical.

I don't know bro, ask Mustafa16 or search for it. look up anything related to turkish, coup or gulenist.

**Simple_Person** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

-

, bro, can you give me that topic relating Turkish coup../gulenist topic.. I want to read those information that says Gulenist were behind it.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

What is that topic called?

btw, i will get back to you if i find things based on assumptions and simple hatred. Know i ask very critical questions and if something is based on the truth, no questions is too critical.

You can also check with @ana tolin since he is turkish as well.

a quick search found this, which has mention of it as well:
Turkey - A Muslim Nation

**sister herb** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

There is a vast difference between erdogan and egypt's tyrants. One has been good for his nation and the other has not. Ask other Muslims and see how they feel about it.

I can ask. But what if those whose I ask are supporters of Sisi or gulanists? What kind of answers you think I will get?

You see, it´s not easy to find out who is right or who is wrong in kind of situation. Reality depends a lot how we want to see it and what is our personal history with this conflict, what is our background. Picture might be absolutely different if you step to the other person´s shoes and try to understand how and why he is thinking like he does and why you see these things differently.

The truth is somewhere out there and I don´t think that any of us have found it yet. But we can keep looking.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by sister herb

I can ask. But what if those whose I ask are supporters of Sisi or gulanists? What kind of answers you think I will get?

You see, it´s not easy to find out who is right or who is wrong in kind of situation. Reality depends a lot how we want to see it and what is our personal history with this conflict, what is our background. Picture might be absolutely different if you step to the other person´s shoes and try to understand how and why he is thinking like he does and why you see these things differently.

The truth is somewhere out there and I don´t think that any of us have found it yet. But we can keep looking.

No, you don't need to step in other person's shoe to see what's going on. You just need to see what each one is doing to it's people. If you ask the Muslims not native of those nations, you will find majority to be on one side. You will find them to be pro Erdogan and anti Sisi or mubarak. And this based on what they have done for their people. One unbanned the hijab and lifted some of the secularist restrictions on its citizens while the other imprisoned and killed its citizens. One had his people come out to face the tanks in support of him and while the other ran over his people with tanks. Being in the western nation, it may not be as clear for you to see but if you ask the eastern Muslims, you fill find where majority stand. Even if you don't ask any, you should be able to see with your own eyes what each ruler has done to its people. The truth is before our eyes, whether see it or not is another question.

**sister herb** · 03-06-2017

And majority of them put their own people to the prison and torture them in there - because of their political opinions. Here comes the problem: majority may support some political leader but at the same time this supported leader oppress the minority. But in kind of nations it may be difficult to know for sure who belongs to the majority and who belongs to the minority. If its very well known that sayings your opinion too loudly, may label you as being part of the minority and place you to the jail.

"One unbanned the hijab and lifted some of the secularist restrictions on its citizens while the other imprisoned and killed its citizens."

I see in this your sentence one mistake:

"One unbanned the hijab and lifted some of the secularist restrictions on its citizens and throwed his own citizens to the jails to become tortured, some beated, raped, killed because they dared to support his political opponent..."

As supporter of other side you may don´t want or can´t look at this issue objectively. You may don´t believe this at all. Also, you may not want to go out there and ask from gulenists how they have been treated with this "good leader". They might tell you only a political propaganda. The other side never spreads any kind of political propaganda, right? I mean, your side. Your side tells only the truth, the pale truth and nothing but the truth.

I am not supporter of either. I am interesting only about the human rights.

You don´t need to be in the East or in the West to see what kind of world we are living.

**aaj** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by sister herb

and throwed his own citizens to the jails to become tortured, some beated, raped, killed because they dared to support his political opponent..."

As supporter of other side you may don´t want or can´t look at this issue objectively. You may don´t believe this at all. Also, you may not want to go out there and ask from gulenists how they have been treated with this "good leader". They might tell you only a political propaganda. The other side never spreads any kind of political propaganda, right? I mean, your side. Your side tells only the truth, the pale truth and nothing but the truth.

I am not supporter of either. I am interesting only about the human rights.

You don´t need to be in the East or in the West to see what kind of world we are living.

From what we know, he has thrown in prison those who were involved in the coup. Do you have any proof of torture and rape and killing he's allegedly doing? If you are talking about death sentence then all nations have that as a punishment for treason.

Honestly, I don't know if Gulenist were behind this or not. But there's lot of things pointing to them. Such as all of the soldiers being members of the gulenist movement, Gulen in charge of largest private schools and Erdogan wanting to make all schools public, Gulen himself telling his members to infiltrate all sectors of the society (for whatever agenda he has in mind), and the fact many turkish saying they were gulenist who were behind this. Now that may not mean much to an outsider like you and me but I think the people of the nation would know whose who among them better?

**Mustafa16** · 03-06-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

From what we know, he has thrown in prison those who were involved in the coup. Do you have any proof of torture and rape and killing he's allegedly doing? If you are talking about death sentence then all nations have that as a punishment for treason.

Honestly, I don't know if Gulenist were behind this or not. But there's lot of things pointing to them. Such as all of the soldiers being members of the gulenist movement, Gulen in charge of largest private schools and Erdogan wanting to make all schools public, Gulen himself telling his members to infiltrate all sectors of the society (for whatever agenda he has in mind), and the fact many turkish saying they were gulenist who were behind this. Now that may not mean much to an outsider like you and me but I think the people of the nation would know whose who among them better?

so schoolteachers like my uncle should be thrown in prison for the coup?