I'm kinda tired of having to both defend against people who are racist against Arabs and Muslims from Islamaphobes online, who say we are terrorists, backwards, close-minded, racists etc, while on the other hand every so often having to hear Muslims with bigoted attitudes, that they don't even recognise as being bigoted.
For example, once at work a Pakistani guy said that he would never get married to a non-Pakistani, and he was totally oblivious to how racist his comment was, even when I spelt it out to him. He just couldn't get it. Plus he was telling this to me, a non-Pakistani, lol.
On another occasion (and I am soooo sorry for constantly mentioning nationalities in this topic, but I am just trying to illustrate a point) my Palestinian American colleague was talking about his wife (she's a Palestinian born and raised in Jordan) who made a casual comment about how shocked she was that their White European neighbour, I think a British or Aussie convert, could get married to a Somali girl. If I remember correctly she said something like 'How could they get married. He is so white and she is so black'. Both of us, who have grown up in the West were just baffled with the casual racism (and colorism) that easily slips out of the mouths of people around us, and from all nationalities. We are in the UAE btw.
Now I know for a fact, not all Muslims are racist, and I like to think that the majority of us are not (at least in my circle of friends), but we do seem to be diseased community with this issue, and no one ever likes to talk about it, without getting defensive.
I agree. I was raised Christian and would like to possibly convert and oh boy some people just illustrate complete sexism and are oblivious to it. I was talking to a man about my fear of converting because I am a feminist and he explained that woman don't have to work because the man does it for you so I had no reason to worry. He had no idea how sexist that statement was.
In UAE and KSA a non arab man cannot marry an arab woman no matter if he is a Muslim as far as I know. Is it true? People may have personal preferenses whom to marry but when it comes to codes it becomes a real racism
In UAE and KSA a non arab man cannot marry an arab woman no matter if he is a Muslim as far as I know. Is it true? People may have personal preferenses whom to marry but when it comes to codes it becomes a real racism
Thats not true. Thats actually the first time I have heard that. If you are talking about UAE National women marrying non-Arab men, it most definitely happens. I believe its the same in Saudi as well. I know of Gulf Arab women being married to black (non-Arab) men from East Africa, although, I don't know if they are 'nationalised/Arabized' afterwards. But this is because of the cultural links between the two regions. As for Arab men in general. There are no restrictions.
Thats not true. Thats actually the first time I have heard that. If you are talking about UAE National women marrying non-Arab men, it most definitely happens. I believe its the same in Saudi as well. I know of Gulf Arab women being married to black (non-Arab) men from East Africa, although, I don't know if they are 'nationalised/Arabized' afterwards. But this is because of the cultural links between the two regions. As for Arab men in general. There are no restrictions.
When i mean no restrictions, men are free to get married to who they want to. Of course depending on who gets married to who, will determine the level of negative and positive comments they will get from their family and the wider community.
It's not clear cut and black and white. There are many factors to consider.
If a pakistan is saying he would not marry someone else other than a pakistani then he may or may not be a racists. Same goes for any other person of any other race. If they say it because they think their race is better or are looking on other races then clearly they are racists. But if they say because they feel they will be most compatible with someone of their own race, ease of communication, ease of family meetings, sense of safety, etc. then it's a matter of personal preference and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't know about other gulf nations but I do know that an arab woman needs the government's permission to marry a non-arab man in saudi. They may be doing this to protect their women from any visa fraud or to safe guard their society from being taken over due low population compared to the expats, etc. One could say they are racist but it may not be the case.
As for the Palestinian's comment. You need to understand the history to understand where her logic and racism is coming from. Muslim world had been under colonialism for a long long time. When the colonizers occupied the Muslim world, they imposed their ethno-superiority on the natives of the lands they occupied. In that occupation, the favored the light colored natives over the darker ones. The lighter colored ones were treated better, got better jobs, and better opportunities, etc. And the darker colored were put down, much like the whites of America put the blacks down before the civil rights movements. This led to inferiority complex in the natives of those nations. So you will see a pakitani being racist against another pakistani because he's darker in complexion, you will see the same with indians, or arabs or any other nation. And you will see people like your Palestinian being surprised a white guy making a black girl. It has been ingrained into them through centuries of colonialism. But that doesn't mean it's norm, even if you come across 100 people, it still doesn't mean it's the norm compared to a 3-400 million population. And the concept of 'racism' is new to them because while some of them may not marry others of darker complexion, it is a preference they have developed and not out of any animosity towards that person. The racism of the west is different in that sense, the racism of the west is often based on animosity towards the other race.
And this is the same in non-Muslim non-white nations as well. Which is why you will see people like Asians marry whites more than blacks, solely because they are white. They understand their child by a white man will get more privilege in today's world than by any other race. These are the fruits of colonialism and white dominated world we live in.
As for what alemilee said regarding that sexism comment, I don't think it was as much to do with sexism in the statement as much as the ability of conveying that message in a better way.
But with all this, it doesn't mean racism doesn't exist. The disease of racism does exist in the ummah and it is because we have opted for nationalism over Islam. For example, the gulf arabs think of themselves as pure arabs and all other arabs lower arabs. They also are very abusive towards domestic workers, which in turn makes the others hate the arabs. This is not racism on others part though, it is resentment and hatred of the arabs because of the actions of the arabs.
I don't know about other gulf nations but I do know that an arab woman needs the government's permission to marry a non-arab man in saudi. They may be doing this to protect their women from any visa fraud or to safe guard their society from being taken over due low population compared to the expats, etc.
This is normal in the Gulf. The local population is extremely small for most Gulf countries, and there are so many expatriates here, especially in the UAE. So naturally there is a drive to safeguard the local culture. And although the government very very strongly and actively encourages Nationals to marry within and not to foreigners, it isn't forbidden. In the UAE you can find 'Emiratis' from various backgrounds. Some are originally from Iran, others from Africa, others from other Arab nationalities and sometimes even from cultures totally different from ours, like Filipino, although this is rare. But this is off the topic. My Pakistani colleague wasn't talking about cultural preference, he was talking about tradition and how it was just inconceivable to marry outside of the nationality.
As for the Palestinian girl. She is just an example of the casual racism we exhibit across our communities, and I am sorry, but no amount of historical context can be a justification. We are all 21st Century human beings, and we are all Muslim. By default we should no what is right and wrong in our attitudes towards other races.
My Pakistani colleague wasn't talking about cultural preference, he was talking about tradition and how it was just inconceivable to marry outside of the nationality.
As for the Palestinian girl. She is just an example of the casual racism we exhibit across our communities, and I am sorry, but no amount of historical context can be a justification. We are all 21st Century human beings, and we are all Muslim. By default we should no what is right and wrong in our attitudes towards other races.
The tradition in itself is not bad either. If it is your tradition to marry among your own people, there is nothing wrong with that. It may be inconceivable to him to marry outside because he was never raised to think along those lines. It doesn't necessarily make it a racist issue.
Just because the Palestinian girl said that, doesn't mean she's racist either. It just may mean that she is astonished to see such a thing when she has been raised in a culture/society where it's not the norm. And you have to look at historical context to understand the society, otherwise it's moot to have any discussion about its actions.
And even if we live in the 25th century, that means diddly squat if the society has not progressed in any form or fashion. For God's sake, we live in the 21st century! and yet we see all these wars and genocide, you would think mankind would have learned by now to be more civilized. So you see passage of time means nil, development of the society is what matters.
The tradition in itself is not bad either. If it is your tradition to marry among your own people, there is nothing wrong with that. It may be inconceivable to him to marry outside because he was never raised to think along those lines. It doesn't necessarily make it a racist issue.
Islam came to remove this kind exclusivity from amongst us because it breeds prejudice, and our religion would never have spread like it did if intermarriage was restricted to traditional norms. Racism doesnt evolve out of a void of nothingness. And we are talking something that was implemented 1400 years ago. If we havnt progressed at all since then, I feel sorry for new Muslims who come into the religion and are then exposed to all of this. Anyway, alhumdillah this is something that is becoming less and less, and the more the size of this world decreases, the more open minded, and hopefully less tolerant of bigotry in any form, our community will become.
Islam came to remove this kind exclusivity from amongst us because it breeds prejudice, and our religion would never have spread like it did if intermarriage was restricted to traditional norms. Racism doesnt evolve out of a void of nothingness. And we are talking something that was implemented 1400 years ago. If we havnt progressed at all since then, I feel sorry for new Muslims who come into the religion and are then exposed to all of this. Anyway, alhumdillah this is something that is becoming less and less, and the more the size of this world decreases, the more open minded, and hopefully less tolerant of bigotry in any form, our community will become.
It doesn't necessarily breeds prejudice. It depends on the belief of the people. If a person feels safe marrying within his/her culture or if that is there personal preference then that is a right they have. But if they are being exclusive to their own kind because they think of themselves better or other races less in anyway then that clearly is unislamic and racist.
Islam came 1400 years ago. But that doesn't mean it's still implemented in one's life as it was then. Colonialism drew lines on the map and made us nationalists which is why you will even see less indian marrying pakistani or vice versa even though they are the same race. Majority of the Muslims today are ignorant of the their deen. So when you don't even have the islamic knowledge then what progress are you talking about? If people are being racist , be it intentionally or unintentionally, then what we need is 1) more educating in the deen and 2) more intermingling of different races/cultures/nationalities. Muslims were also more tolerant back than because all of Muslim world was one ummah (nation) without any borders.
Wow... Does anyone see the forest for the trees? Ultimately there is one race: the human race! All other labels: religion, culture, nationality, are man made constructs.
On a HUMAN level, we are all the same, ie. we all feel love, pain, joy, anger, fear, happiness, etc. The labels are superficial, man made constructs that do not appear to be advancing humanity much. Can provide examples. So, can anyone see the forest but for the trees; the human being but for the 'stuff'?
I'm kinda tired of having to both defend against people who are racist against Arabs and Muslims from Islamaphobes online, who say we are terrorists, backwards, close-minded, racists etc, while on the other hand every so often having to hear Muslims with bigoted attitudes, that they don't even recognise as being bigoted.
For example, once at work a Pakistani guy said that he would never get married to a non-Pakistani, and he was totally oblivious to how racist his comment was, even when I spelt it out to him. He just couldn't get it. Plus he was telling this to me, a non-Pakistani, lol.
On another occasion (and I am soooo sorry for constantly mentioning nationalities in this topic, but I am just trying to illustrate a point) my Palestinian American colleague was talking about his wife (she's a Palestinian born and raised in Jordan) who made a casual comment about how shocked she was that their White European neighbour, I think a British or Aussie convert, could get married to a Somali girl. If I remember correctly she said something like 'How could they get married. He is so white and she is so black'. Both of us, who have grown up in the West were just baffled with the casual racism (and colorism) that easily slips out of the mouths of people around us, and from all nationalities. We are in the UAE btw.
Now I know for a fact, not all Muslims are racist, and I like to think that the majority of us are not (at least in my circle of friends), but we do seem to be diseased community with this issue, and no one ever likes to talk about it, without getting defensive.
Rant done.
If a Pakistani wants to marry with a Pakistani , stands for preference due to certain reasons. It's nothing to do with racism.
A racist is inflicted with disease of superiority complex and showing hatred for others
I'm kinda tired of having to both defend against people who are racist against Arabs and Muslims from Islamaphobes online, who say we are terrorists, backwards, close-minded, racists etc, while on the other hand every so often having to hear Muslims with bigoted attitudes, that they don't even recognise as being bigoted.
For example, once at work a Pakistani guy said that he would never get married to a non-Pakistani, and he was totally oblivious to how racist his comment was, even when I spelt it out to him. He just couldn't get it. Plus he was telling this to me, a non-Pakistani, lol.
On another occasion (and I am soooo sorry for constantly mentioning nationalities in this topic, but I am just trying to illustrate a point) my Palestinian American colleague was talking about his wife (she's a Palestinian born and raised in Jordan) who made a casual comment about how shocked she was that their White European neighbour, I think a British or Aussie convert, could get married to a Somali girl. If I remember correctly she said something like 'How could they get married. He is so white and she is so black'. Both of us, who have grown up in the West were just baffled with the casual racism (and colorism) that easily slips out of the mouths of people around us, and from all nationalities. We are in the UAE btw.
Now I know for a fact, not all Muslims are racist, and I like to think that the majority of us are not (at least in my circle of friends), but we do seem to be diseased community with this issue, and no one ever likes to talk about it, without getting defensive.
Rant done.
I don't believe these people are racist. They would be considered racial purists and nationalists. To be a racist, you would believe that your race is supreme and has the right to oppress other races, pretty much like Israel does. A white English marrying a Somali would be an incredible mismatch as they are so utterly different. English are primarily mesomorphs and endomorphs but the Somali are mostly ectomorphs, so the hybrid offspring are going to look like freaks and will probably suffer from mental illness from identity issues and could end up committing suicide or joining a terrorist organization. Also the western barbarian mind will conflict with the Somali mind. The act of miscegenation is evil and insane because it genocides both races and is as crazy as breeding an American Pit bull or Alsatian with a cute little papillon or Pomeranian. Here is an excerpt of a speech given by Rabbi Robbinavich in JANUARY 12TH, 1952
Forbid the Whites to mate with Whites. The White Women must cohabit with members of the dark races, the White Men with black women. Thus the White Race will disappear, for the mixing of the dark with the White means the end of the White Man, and our most dangerous enemy will become only a memory. We shall embark upon an era of ten thousand years of peace and plenty, the Pax Judaica, and our race will rule undisputed over the world. Our superior intelligence will easily enable us to retain mastery over a world of dark peoples.
This is part of the Zionist agenda as can be obviously seen by the incessant promotion of miscegenation in the Jewish Zionist owned mainstream media.
Wow... Does anyone see the forest for the trees? Ultimately there is one race: the human race! All other labels: religion, culture, nationality, are man made constructs.
On a HUMAN level, we are all the same, ie. we all feel love, pain, joy, anger, fear, happiness, etc. The labels are superficial, man made constructs that do not appear to be advancing humanity much. Can provide examples. So, can anyone see the forest but for the trees; the human being but for the 'stuff'?
Typical absurd rhetoric of the Marxist Jews. Of course there are different races as otherwise we would all look the same like one big family, but we don't. We differ hugely in size and morphology as well as maturity speed, eye colour, complexion and mentality.
@Karl
dude you sound prety racist to me. There is no such a thing as racial "mismatch" in marriage. Indeed it is believed that hybrid races are tend to be more strong. And your assumption regarding "white" race is a nonscientific legend.
God could have made it so much easier for us, he could have made us all green, and given us one land to live on, and we could all call our land Pakistan.
We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. We have a duty to care for all of God's creation, and that has to mean caring for each other despite our differences.
You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
This is an interesting discussion - and personally I find nothing wrong with inter-racial marriages, I'm a pretty firm believer in the fact that the only thing that matters is religion and character when looking for a husband or wife, everything else is secondary and shouldn't be given priority. This is what Islam teaches us, we have been created as different tribes and nations by Allah swt and there is such beauty in that.
But - and this is a big but - it is very common in our Ummah to prefer to marry within one's own community. I can't say this is right, because it isn't and does reflect a 'tribal' mentality which we'd be better off without, but I don't think many of these people are actually 'racist'. They have this idea that they want to keep within their own community because it is what they know, what they have always known, and where they're familiar with their customs and tradition. Us humans, regardless of religion or race, always seem to have this uncertainty when around 'foreigners'.
I say this because within my own family there is a preference to marry *within* the family or if not then someone from the Kashmiri community. However, they have nothing against people from other community or races - it's just they, like a lot of communities, have a fear of 'change' or 'unknown'.
Another point is that I've found if you're from a multicultural society like the UK or America, people *generally* have less reservations about inter-racial relationships. Western Muslims are generally more accepting of these types of things.
So when I've met someone from say Pakistan or an Arab country - yes I've noticed some tend to say things which sound really racist and have taken me aback, lol, but they're not being intentionally hateful. And even here, in England, in towns which are predominantly White they're pretty racist - whereas in larger towns alhamdulillah everyone gets on well. Of course, these are generalisations, taken from my personal experience.
For example, once at work a Pakistani guy said that he would never get married to a non-Pakistani,
He will marry his first cousin, that's why. It's got jack to do with religion - more to do with cultural expectations to "KEEP THE WEALTH IN THE FAMILY" which shows how much they do not trust in Allah as the provider.
format_quote Originally Posted by YahyaAE
On another occasion (and I am soooo sorry for constantly mentioning nationalities in this topic, but I am just trying to illustrate a point) my Palestinian American colleague was talking about his wife (she's a Palestinian born and raised in Jordan) who made a casual comment about how shocked she was that their White European neighbour, I think a British or Aussie convert, could get married to a Somali girl. If I remember correctly she said something like 'How could they get married. He is so white and she is so black'.
So you found two examples in your life? And you think this is enough to paint all Muslims as racist? or the majority?
@Karl
dude you sound prety racist to me. There is no such a thing as racial "mismatch" in marriage. Indeed it is believed that hybrid races are tend to be more strong. And your assumption regarding "white" race is a nonscientific legend.
There IS such thing as a racial mismatch. It is just utterly insane to want to mix incompatible physical traits. For example, I am Germanic, and therefore of big sturdy athletic build and blue eyed. It would be completely insane of me to want to mix with a female of a race that is diminutive, dainty, willowy and physically inferior. I want my sons to instead look just as big, angular featured, strong and masculine as me, their dad. I DON'T want to emasculate my sons by making them become puny, weak, soft, late developing and effeminate featured. I don't want to have to feel embarrassed in front of my friends who would be laughing at my sons. Such mismatched hybridization ruins the physical traits of BOTH sides, not only MY side, but HER side as well. Not only would a pretty diminutive Asian be ruining my big strong Germanic features (which I take great pride in and wouldn't trade in for anything in the world), I'd also be completely ruining HER features as well, that being her diminutive daintiness, softness, delicacy and cuteness. It's a lose lose outcome. Tell me HOW is it going to make a 7 foot tall Norseman "stronger" if he mixes with some diminutive little 4 foot tall South East Asian?? That is NOT making him stronger at all. It is instead dysgenics, NOT "improvement"!
Regarding your comment of white race. Contrary to what many people assume, there is no such thing as "the white race". There are in fact a large number of white races. It is also important to realize that the use of the expression "white race/s" is really just a synonym of those who belong to a Germanic race (i.e: Angles, Saxons, Viking, Goths, Celts, Jutes, Visigoths, Austro-Goths, Franks, Berzerkers, Vandals etc), the typical physical characteristics being blue eyed, pale (white-pinkish) complexioned, big and sturdy. There are also many Slavic white races more to the east of Europe including white Russia. Some north and east Asian races are actually quite white in complexion too but it wouldn't be correct to refer to them as "white" because racially they are Orientals, not Germanics or Slavs, and their complexion is really more a yellowish hue anyway, quite different to the skin complexion of a Germanic.
As for "racism", while the politically correct Marxists speak of it as if it were some sort of aberration, it is in reality a very natural and normal survival mechanism and a trait most races have possessed since time immemorial. Of course I am racist. I am a racist because it is my priority for my own race to survive. I care not for other races though. It is their own responsibility, not mine, to ensure their own survival. I am also racist because every night I eat the corpse of some poor creature that has been slain for my meal. But that is the reality of life. Whether we like it or not, racism is natural, so get over it.
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Is the 'Musilm' Ummah a racist ummah?
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