UK concert: Deaths after reported blast

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you fromelsewhere;



Agreed



Justice for all people can never happen in this world. 9 / 11 was sick and wrong, so America and it's allies bomb Afghanistan, tit- for- tat retaliation. Possibly a hundred Afghans might have been responsible for 9/11, but tens of thousands have died. I would imagine the majority of Afghans who were killed had nothing to do with 9/11.

How do these innocent Afghans get justice and compensation for their loss? You can imagine there are a lot of angry Afghans who have lost a loved one, if they can't get justice then some will sadly seek revenge. Is this revenge classed as freedom fighting or terrorism?

If there is no god, then all these innocent deaths can never be put right. Only God can restore people to a greater good life after death. We pray to a God of compassion, mercy and forgiveness.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

Eric,
It's been 16 years and you still believe that Muslims committed the 9/11 attacks? OMG!

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

Sorry but that wasn´t a joke. I disagree that some people want to see conspiracy theories behind of every corner.

Until you realize that there is a religion out there (I'll let you guess) whose members are committing false-flag terror attacks to get Christians and Muslims to fight each other, you will never understand what's happening in the world today.

Greetings,

My past experience with Islamic Board, and other interactions with Muslims, has changed my perception on events like this.

Many facts go unreported or under-reported by news agencies. Unreported: The vast majority of the Muslim world vehemently rejects attacks like this (especially against children). Unreported: Most moderate and even conservative Muslims categorically reject such terrorist acts on a theological basis, and can recite chapter and verse for reasoning. Unreported: Many Muslim fanatics/nerds will crush you with scholarship in any attempt to brand them as supporters of terrorism. Unreported: Individuals in the Muslim world have hearts, and they bleed in response to the suffering of anyone, in any nation, anywhere. Unreported: Muslims have love and respect for non-believers, assuming that such love and respect is earned though virtue.

I am an American. I am from South Carolina, the cradle of Revolution for ignorance and slavery. My state voted for Trump. Yet still, there are many here who seek knowledge and support truth. I make no apologies or excuses; we are many, and we are who we are.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

As the argument went outside..

Go get your ting..

Because i AM my ting.


Wow. I am left speechless.

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

I talked about those more or less common conspiracy theories. Here have been mentioned already 9/11 theory and one from the era of the cold war. I see just bunch of lunatics whose follow the false leaders whose lie to them that they are fighting for justice. Those leaders may use black flags but the color of flag doesn´t make them worthy to follow.

As well, some members here hadn´t any information who is behind of this cowardly act but conspiracy theories were ready. If you can´t blame aliens, blame Nato/Nasa/CIA/FBI... And this comes the danger:

looking for guilty part from those sweet theories, is the first step to give justification to the groups whose gives example to kind of attacks.

Nobody knows yet was there daesh behind of this but it´s easy to see that they have given the example and idea for attacking against civilians like this way.

We live in a age of confusion where false flags are a CERTAIN fact. The problem however is that not many people know that there are false flags. The age of confusion creates exactly this "obvious" fact of yes..ISIS must have done it. However countries have VERY VERY complicated strategies that they rule by. Creation of group X, group X fights against you, but now group X and you have common enemy, however because group X are so preoccupied by this enemy, then give weapons to group X, because the international pressure is less and losing face is less..

So for me rather is that if group X even says they have done that bombing, the creation of this group X is not even trustworthy anymore. I question everything and everyone. Just as recent so called chemical attack on civilians "by" Assad. All the logic tells me that it is being contradictory and if i remember correctly we disagreed on that topic and i asked you some questions how come this and how come that..but you NEVER bothered to reply to them.

Do be honest in discussions sisters, losing face is the last that you should care about. I do not care what people think of me "losing face", my pride is less than their foot sole. Let people trample my pride because i do not care about it. When i am wrong or say something wrong i am wrong and the whole world may know about it. Try to create this attitude also, because having pride to not lose face is not gone help your or me in our grave.

format_quote Originally Posted by Silas

Most people in the "west" do not view people from the Middle East as savages, nor do they believe Islam is some terrorist ideology. You need to stop listening to those who would tell you this in some misguided attempt to stoke your anger and anxiety.

People ARE standing up against their governments, and the endless wars and interventions. Ask yourself why they have not been successful?

1. Saudi Arabia wants to uphold its monarchy and is against the idea of an "Islamic Republic" (Iran, Syria, Libya, etc.). It has a political motivation to subvert these republics through sowing chaos in the region and getting western nations to help. The campaign against the Shia is part of this.
2. Saudi Arabia is financing and spreading Salafist/Wahhabist Islam around the world. Look at the "Red Mosque" (Lal Masjid) in Pakistan--the kids who study there are taught to despise "infidels" and other Muslims, and they learn nothing but select portions of the Quran. In interviews, these kids don't even know what the meaning of the passages are, they just memorize. 99% of all terrorists come from this "branch" of Islam.
3. Israel uses its power and influence to encourage western governments to act against their own interests and engage in military intervention in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is happy to go along with some of this (the removal of Assad, bombing of Houthi rebels, etc.).

So this isn't as simple as western people standing up agains their own governments, when we have Muslim nations (and Israel) encouraging military strikes in the Middle-East.

Whenever the west seems to be retreating from the stage in the ME, we suddenly get these terrorist attacks, which then act as a justification for putting boots on the ground in places like Syria. The terrorists who carry out these attacks are the stooges of the House of Saud and the Israeli/neocon lobby.

You say westerners are acting like savages less than 24 hours after (apparently) some jihadist just blew up a bunch of innocent women and children. So the solution to savagery is to behave like even more of a savage?

Brother, you understand very little of my comment, however i blame my self for not being more clear in it.

When we see that those extreme right political parties gaining such high amount of votes, YES there are people who vote for them because they want change, however they do not think IF such a extreme right political party gains upper hand, it is gonna go wrong with Muslims. So i am especially pointing at those, besides that, i have lived her in the west for some time. Till this day i am still being looked at as if i am a criminal, i am -1 when somebody seems me. However i do not look at them as evil people, i rather pity them and i accepted the reality.

The elder generation in the west, those people KNOW how it is to witness war, the later generation is blind because they have been protected from war and destruction. All the later generation mostly cares about is wealth and see anybody who comes in their country that they see them grabbing of their wealth.

It ALL starts with western politics. When there is no western politics in other words people standing up against their politicians, suddenly Israel is getting less money and the Middle East aka dictators having no input to stay in power. So bro, you have to think a bit more deeply about this, as the ROOT cause of all of this starts in western countries. Saudi may have all the money in the world however if western powers do not support them and Russia so to say takes over and help Saudi with arms deal, that is at least change. Russia help with arms deal, but that is all. The problem is western countries are connected with them on all the levels not just arms deals.

What if western countries also stopped buying Saudi oil? What then? Also no money from Saudi..Russia is also selling oil, so china right now is getting a lot of oil from Russia..so also that is getting hard for Saudi. So again it all starts with the west.

How many people have stopped voting? WHY ARE YOU VOTING!!?? Democracy? But you KNOW it is a scam ..on paper all looks fine, but in reality it isn't. So why vote to keep up this input and flow of corrupt people gaining power? What if whole UK stopped voting? Or whole western world stopped voting..

Things are a bit more complicated and one needs the balls to take actions, however many do not have those.

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge

Greetings,

My past experience with Islamic Board, and other interactions with Muslims, has changed my perception on events like this.

Many facts go unreported or under-reported by news agencies. Unreported: The vast majority of the Muslim world vehemently rejects attacks like this (especially against children). Unreported: Most moderate and even conservative Muslims categorically reject such terrorist acts on a theological basis, and can recite chapter and verse for reasoning. Unreported: Many Muslim fanatics/nerds will crush you with scholarship in any attempt to brand them as supporters of terrorism. Unreported: Individuals in the Muslim world have hearts, and they bleed in response to the suffering of anyone, in any nation, anywhere. Unreported: Muslims have love and respect for non-believers, assuming that such love and respect is earned though virtue.

I am an American. I am from South Carolina, the cradle of Revolution for ignorance and slavery. My state voted for Trump. Yet still, there are many here who seek knowledge and support truth. I make no apologies or excuses; we are many, and we are who we are.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

Stop watching tv. With that, A LOT of your (in general) time will suddenly be available. What to do with that time? Talk to a foreign neighbor of yours, ask question about their culture, habits, likes/dislikes, read a book or two about thing in the world, eat some dishes that you never heard of, learn more about other religions, suddenly one will learn a lot more.

However tv is more important to people now a days, i am not only talking about the west, in the Middle East people have become really lazy and VERY VERY uneducated, despite they being able to read and write. If not tv, it is facebook and that useless time wasting stuff..as if people have become "social" because of social media.

format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere

Many of these terrorists claim to be doing that in the name of Islam. You should be mad at them for turning Islam on its head and claiming that they are doing "jihad" when they are just doing Satanic deeds.

mad at them?; we're too pre-occupied in saving ourselves from hell mate than be mad at mado's of the world!

it's wrong; we condemn, and move on; life too short to be mad!

format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere

The problem is that these people come from our community and often give warning signs that they are radicalizing. But unfortunately, instead of the community coming forward to try and encourage them to not do stupid things, the community is silent. It is important to reinforce the message that Islam is UNEQUIVOCALY AGAINST killing innocents. The terrorist in this case, Salman Abedi, was born & raised in England, and he worked at the local mosque where he apparently "gave a look of hate" after the imam preached against ISIS. People saw this but did not confront him. I am sure that someone must have known that he was up to no good.

Aside from the heinous murders he has committed, he has also tainted the image of Muslims further. This leads to more hate and tension that is certainly not needed and that makes the lives of Muslims in Western countries unnecessarily more difficult. These kinds of horrible events are bad for everyone, and no one benefits aside from the Shayteen (providing that he exists).

If i am correct you said you were a ex-Muslim, however you seem to know little about Islam. In Islam there is a thing called not acting upon suspicion or being suspicious. Also assuming things, very big evils.

The problem is not these guys, because WE as Muslim KNOW about khwarij mentality (ISIS-menality) they will come until the last one of them join dajjal (anti-christ)

=======hadith==========

"I used to wish that I could meet a man among the Companions of the Prophet [SAW] and ask him about the Khawarij. Then I met Abu Barzah on the day of 'Id, with a number of his companions. I said to him : 'Did you hear the Messenger of Allah [SAW] mention the Khawarij?' He said: 'Yes. I heard the Messenger of Allah [SAW] with my own ears, and saw him with my own eyes. Some wealth was brought to the Messenger of Allah [SAW] and he distributed it to those on his right and on his left, but he did not give anything to those who were behind him. Then a man stood behind him and said: "o Muhammad! You have not been just in your division! "He was a man with black patchy (shaved) hair, wearing two white garments. So Allah's Messenger [SAW] became very angry and said:" By Allah! You will not find a man after me who is more just than me. "Then he said:" A people will come at the end of time; as if he is one of them, reciting the Qur'an without it passing beyond their throats. They will go through Islam just as the arrow goes through the target. Their distinction will be shaving. They will not cease to appear until the last of them comes with Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. So when you meet them, then kill them, they are the worst of created beings. "

Source used: https://sunnah.com/nasai/37/138

========================

In the time of Prophet Muhammad(pubh), they were also a problem. If you knew even a bit about Islam you at least should have known also these things. We do not see those people until they take action. These times those ISIS guys are not to be blamed, because we do NOT know who are those ISIS guys and who are not. Those guys WILL EXIST.

We not as Muslims but as humans together should first start attacking the problem at it's core, which is corrupt politicians. Those guys are the cause of the problems worldwide and those ISIS-mentality guys find EXCUSE to go and kill innocent people.

Every time Muslims are blamed for "not doing anything against it", my question is what we Muslims are dealing with are symptoms and will NOT GO AWAY!! How much are people who are NOT Muslims doing against those people who are in PLAIN SIGHT?? WHY..WHY..WHY isn't Blair, Bush etc in jail yet? Those guys WE KNOW are the criminals.

To me seeing such injustice, yet my blood boiling to do something, but the governments are terrorists, the groups fighting the governments are terrorists in my eyes, in Syria right now the so called "white helmets" are the biggest terrorists among them all as they spread lies to work against certain party. So for me seeing such injustice everywhere the only thing i at least can do is speak the truth.

Everybody stop voting at least. Do not go and join the so called "free democracy" as we all know is what you are voting for is yet another criminal. What if everybody stopped voting, their WHOLE scam falls apart. But yeah when people hear me say this they disagree off course, but have no alternative to it...just want to act like sheep and by default those criminals in politics have won.

Muslims these days are also partly to be blamed, i am not arguing that. As many just follow culture like sheep. Understand little to nothing about Islam, but when seeing injustice done, they do not use their brain rather act upon emotion and thus kill innocent people during the fight. They also often have developed this SICK mentality of what the US-government already invented (Collateral damage).

format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge

Greetings,

My past experience with Islamic Board, and other interactions with Muslims, has changed my perception on events like this.

Many facts go unreported or under-reported by news agencies. Unreported: The vast majority of the Muslim world vehemently rejects attacks like this (especially against children). Unreported: Most moderate and even conservative Muslims categorically reject such terrorist acts on a theological basis, and can recite chapter and verse for reasoning. Unreported: Many Muslim fanatics/nerds will crush you with scholarship in any attempt to brand them as supporters of terrorism. Unreported: Individuals in the Muslim world have hearts, and they bleed in response to the suffering of anyone, in any nation, anywhere. Unreported: Muslims have love and respect for non-believers, assuming that such love and respect is earned though virtue.

I am an American. I am from South Carolina, the cradle of Revolution for ignorance and slavery. My state voted for Trump. Yet still, there are many here who seek knowledge and support truth. I make no apologies or excuses; we are many, and we are who we are.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

Thank you, Dan, I really appreciate the fact that you would join this forum and then come to such an understanding on the fact that we are not so different after all, and that prejudice is rooted in ignorance......it is important to remember that dialogue and education is the only way out of this constant cycle of violence.

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

This is the biggest issue, "now is not the time to discuss the West's wrongdoing when ISIS has carried out the atrocities" ..when is the time? I am not sure if many of us have been living under a rock or so, this IS NOT the first bombing you know. I am not sure if you have been awake for the last 2-3 years. Because people are crying which they have the right to do so and should even do so, but when even a month or a year has gone by, NOBODY is bringing up the corrupt politicians problem as the root cause of it.

So all that is is blaming the individual (symptom) for what has happened and that is it? Look at what France has done after Paris. They just sent their troops to Syria..the people there NOBODY stood up against their own government. Right now even with Macron i believe he would not have won that many votes, but was rather a bundling of forces to win from le Pen. This guy is no better than le Pen herself. All corrupt politicians but walking a different road. NOTHING is done against them, well go and walk that path (people who vote for these criminals), but the REAL victims will be the REAL Muslims that want to practice Islam as it should be practiced. As they are being blamed for ISIS and they will be attacked by the people who have build up anger and hatred against Islam as you see now and then in the news.

The age of confusion, but nobody wants to think even if you give them everything they need to think about.

Muslims now a days seriously ..i am shocked by what i see and hear. Feeling sorry for what has happened (bombing), i am 100% with it, however that is it what i see nothing else. After that nobody is questioning and rather go back as zombies behind their tv following their tv series. Is this what our religion has become? Just feel sorry for the victims and do not dig in to find the root cause of these evil acts? How evil we Muslims even have become i could even argue.

Then we have at the mosques all those dua's ooh Allah protect us from this and ooh Allah protect us from that..but we Muslims are selves have become the sickness because we THINK that Islam is the religion of empathy, but not the one of justice. Well look around you how Allah is humiliating us for it and we DESERVE it if you ask me. I am being very honest, as we Muslims have nothing left but pride, arrogance, nationalism, culture, injustice, dishonesty, cowardliness, inequality, rudeness, hypocrisy.

The West's aggression stems from reacting to Muslim desires to conquer their own nations through terrorism, lack of respect for human rights in their own countries, and terrorism against the West UNPROVOKED. Look at the ideology of Qutbism, which started this whole terrorism nonsense. Then you'll see that this did not start with the kuffar's "envy and hatred of the Muslims" Look at the fall of the Ottoman empire. The Ottomans were getting more and more backward and were abandoning Islamic values, to the point that they were referred to as the "sick man of europe" and rising arab and european nationalism combined with turkish nationalism which alienated their peoples made it INEVITABLE that the ummah would fall. Not to mention the fact that the Ottomans took the wrong side in world war i, and the Muslims made many economic mistakes (failure to adapt to modern day technologies, as well as internal divisions) which made them susceptible to colonialism. so it isn't ALL the west. and you can not look at thing strictly from black and white cause and effect. the answer to the problems of the muslim world is not jihad against the west, or change in western foreign policy, or whatever. it is education. on BOTH sides. dialogue, and education. that is what many people in the Gulen movement are trying to do, and that is what many other groups are doing, and that is what muslims and non muslims alike should be doing.

format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16

The West's aggression stems from reacting to Muslim desires to conquer their own nations through terrorism, lack of respect for human rights in their own countries, and terrorism against the West UNPROVOKED. Look at the ideology of Qutbism, which started this whole terrorism nonsense. Then you'll see that this did not start with the kuffar's "envy and hatred of the Muslims" Look at the fall of the Ottoman empire. The Ottomans were getting more and more backward and were abandoning Islamic values, to the point that they were referred to as the "sick man of europe" and rising arab and european nationalism combined with turkish nationalism which alienated their peoples made it INEVITABLE that the ummah would fall. Not to mention the fact that the Ottomans took the wrong side in world war i, and the Muslims made many economic mistakes (failure to adapt to modern day technologies, as well as internal divisions) which made them susceptible to colonialism. so it isn't ALL the west. and you can not look at thing strictly from black and white cause and effect. the answer to the problems of the muslim world is not jihad against the west, or change in western foreign policy, or whatever. it is education. on BOTH sides. dialogue, and education. that is what many people in the Gulen movement are trying to do, and that is what many other groups are doing, and that is what muslims and non muslims alike should be doing.

I agree with some point and disagree with others, please firstly, stop bringing this Gulen movement each time in the discussion. NO they are NOT trying to "educate" people, it is just another way to put Turkish nationalism in the hearts and minds of people. Every time i tell you this, you do not reply to it and again in another topic you bring it up. Start facing this for once and make up your mind if they indeed are nothing but nationalism that you stop promoting them, if they are NOT this nationalism that i am talking about, do give me your argument, because so far you have not done that.

Anyways, the Ottoman empire indeed had this imperial desires to conquer instead of following the Islamic way of life. This however is the heart of the Ottoman empire, now the rest of the Muslim world is suffering because of it. Were the Arabs the ones that were agreeing with what the Ottoman were doing? Were the Kurds the ones agreeing with this? I know that many under their ranks were Kurds, however i also know of Kurds even in those times fighting the Ottomans, so also on this i see that the Kurds did not agree with them. With these things, suddenly EVERYBODY has become the victim of the sick man. EVERY Muslim.

Allah has made the current Turks as blind as blindness can be defined. All they see is indeed this desire to conquer all places and restore the sick man once again. However how evil the current Turks have become has no boundaries. Hypocrisy at it's top. At the one hand they play the Muslim-card and all those foolish nationalistic Muslims among Turks, but also Arabs, Kurds are blindly following, at the other hand they play the NATO-card which is killing Muslims. When you try to talk to rationalistic Turks, they say ..it is politics..as if Islam at the one hand you can rape a woman and on the other hand you can pray. Islam isn't cherry picking you know.

"Then, you are those [same ones who are] killing one another and evicting a party of your people from their homes, cooperating against them in sin and aggression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their eviction was forbidden to you. So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do." Qur'an 2:85

The words in the Qur'an aren't meant to decorate a book you know.

Turkey currently is already their dog (NATO the master), however why should the rest of the Muslim world be punished for it? That is my argument. Go (NATO) rape the Turks if you like i do not care, but do not bring the rest of the Ummah with it. So fighting back is one thing, but doing more damage to other innocent people is also a thing you know.

If nobody would buy the oil from Saudi, if nobody would do business with gulf states, what do you think will happen? Do you really think those corrupt Arabs will stand firm on their feet? So no, it started back when the Ottoman empire fell, and till now education is prevent BECAUSE of supporting such dictators.

Education is key for rise of revolutions as i have already said, however if education is given, there will be no longer dictators that would be supported by the west. In other words Oil crisis of 73..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

However if such things would happen, people in the west that see gas as the BASIC necessity and driving your car to the shop as a necessity, suddenly will be deprived from those luxurious things will off course revolt. It is like a child when a child has certain toys and you take away those toys he does not look at the times that he never had those toys, but that those toys belongs to him and should not be taken from him. How many people would be able to afford a car if prices would go way high? Although the chance that that would happen is very slim, because Iran has joined and Russia is now i believe #1 exporter of oil and shale oil in US is a fact not forgetting brent oil field that has been active since 1976. In other words let the Arabs get the hit..let them. Who cares? Off course the prices would spike as i believe Saudi is #2 exporter of oil and such, but still it can be managed.

But corrupt officials like the dirty oil money from the Arabs.

Go watch documentary called "Shadow World (2016)"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2626338/

At first one might think it is a paradox, however if you deeply analyze this, you see that ALL starts with corrupt western politicians.