UK concert: Deaths after reported blast

As I have said before, this is a problem that cannot be solved through foreign policy and military action.

Jihadist terrorism, which springs from elements within the Salafist/Wahhabist movements, is something that needs to be confronted and defeated by Muslims themselves. Time is running out.

Many people in the west don't know the difference between Sunni and Shia, and certainly don't know the difference between the schools of thought within Sunni Islam. They see terrorist attacks all over the world, airports and train stations being shut down, children being searched for weapons before they go into school, and they get scared. They then group all Muslims together and say they are all dangerous radicals.

ISIS has declared publicly that even if the western nations were to pull all of their troops and civilians out of the Middle East, ISIS would continue attacking "infidels" all over the world. Their goal is to radicalize existing Muslims, spread Jihad, and instill terror. It is global conquest and genocide.

Getting rid of a Niqab ban in France isn't going to stop the terrorism.

Prayers, denunciations, vigils, etc. --none of that stuff does anything to correct the problem. What is needed is a comprehensive, cooperate approach toward what we know the problem is. If violent radicals are allowed to hijack Islam unchecked, there will be a terrible blowback in Europe that looks like Kristallnacht--or worse. Some Muslims complain of poor treatment and intolerance: believe me, they haven't seen poor treatment yet. We don't want things to deteriorate to that point.

format_quote Originally Posted by Silas

As I have said before, this is a problem that cannot be solved through foreign policy and military action.

Jihadist terrorism, which springs from elements within the Salafist/Wahhabist movements, is something that needs to be confronted and defeated by Muslims themselves. Time is running out.

Many people in the west don't know the difference between Sunni and Shia, and certainly don't know the difference between the schools of thought within Sunni Islam. They see terrorist attacks all over the world, airports and train stations being shut down, children being searched for weapons before they go into school, and they get scared. They then group all Muslims together and say they are all dangerous radicals.

ISIS has declared publicly that even if the western nations were to pull all of their troops and civilians out of the Middle East, ISIS would continue attacking "infidels" all over the world. Their goal is to radicalize existing Muslims, spread Jihad, and instill terror. It is global conquest and genocide.

Getting rid of a Niqab ban in France isn't going to stop the terrorism.

Prayers, denunciations, vigils, etc. --none of that stuff does anything to correct the problem. What is needed is a comprehensive, cooperate approach toward what we know the problem is. If violent radicals are allowed to hijack Islam unchecked, there will be a terrible blowback in Europe that looks like Kristallnacht--or worse. Some Muslims complain of poor treatment and intolerance: believe me, they haven't seen poor treatment yet. We don't want things to deteriorate to that point.

Terrorism and Jihad are two separate things. Terrorism as how we now a days see it (killing of innocent civilians), that is already contradictory to teaching of Islam. Jihad on the other hand is part of Islam and NO Muslim can say this needs to be abolished or not be practiced anymore.

Jihad in these days however and we are talking about war it self, cannot be done, as the leader of the group you are fighting for needs to be known already. However this is unknown as often when one really does dig in, the leader is CIA/Mossad Or Turkey or Gulf states or Iran etc. ..and NONE are rather having the intention to fight injustice, rather power and control.

Salafist also is a hijacked word as well as wahhabism i believe.

First define the right word for it, then comes the rest. However this day and age, when you REALLY dig in, you WILL end up with corrupt WESTERN politicians.

Corrupt western politician ----> sets up a dictator in the Middle East

Dictator in the Middle East ------> Obeys western corrupt politician

Western corrupt politician -----> Buys oil from dictator

Dictator -----> buys weapons from western corrupt politician (western corrupt politician gets commission)

Dictator -----> Gets training from western corrupt politician how to suppress the people (propaganda and torture and prevention of good education), not to forget also prevent freedom of thinking, which turns to radicalism.


Stop the corrupt western politician, then you stop the whole cycle. The dictator has no money to buy weapons, nor able to sell the oil to gain money..in other words goodbye dictator. No war, people (refugees and people who are not really British or Europeans etc) go back to their countries and start rebuilding. Because people start good education, no more radicalization in other words Islam practiced the right way as people start to UNDERSTAND what Islam is about and not that black an white that ISIS has been creating.

BTW, nationalism will also fall, as often it is the instructions of the western policy's that create this dividends called nationalism.

If i am wrong, do show me how my conclusion is wrong as i see it as rather a very easy problem to figure out what is the root cause.

I agree with much of that, but the terrorists have made it clear that they are not acting in response to western aggression, or even oppression by puppet dictators, but out of ideological and religious impulses.

The conditions created by oppression, western domination, etc., may make a person more likely to embrace violent radicalism, but that is not always the case. Bin Laden grew up in a wealthy, privileged family. Many of his followers did not suffer poverty or even oppression, and some were educated in the west.

As I understand it, Bin Laden was a follower of Qutbism, so calling him a Wahhabi is technically incorrect. But we have seen problems coming from the Wahhabis for a while. They were the ones who put passages into Saudi Arabian schoolbooks instructing kids to kill Jews and infidels, and their teachings are embraced by ISIS.

Taking away the dictators and western interference in the Middle East isn't going to make radical extremism go away. It could certainly be part of the solution, but it isn't the entire solution.

format_quote Originally Posted by Silas

I agree with much of that, but the terrorists have made it clear that they are not acting in response to western aggression, or even oppression by puppet dictators, but out of ideological and religious impulses.

The conditions created by oppression, western domination, etc., may make a person more likely to embrace violent radicalism, but that is not always the case. Bin Laden grew up in a wealthy, privileged family. Many of his followers did not suffer poverty or even oppression, and some were educated in the west.

As I understand it, Bin Laden was a follower of Qutbism, so calling him a Wahhabi is technically incorrect. But we have seen problems coming from the Wahhabis for a while. They were the ones who put passages into Saudi Arabian schoolbooks instructing kids to kill Jews and infidels, and their teachings are embraced by ISIS.

Taking away the dictators and western interference in the Middle East isn't going to make radical extremism go away. It could certainly be part of the solution, but it isn't the entire solution.

People act upon opression, people like ISIS however do not follow such a way, they rather just go by their ideology. These people have a mentality that cannot be eradicated. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has warned us about such people. In the time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) one of the first of such people started. I mean to even have a prophet among you and behave in such a way is some scary mentality. So it doesn't matter if you have justice run all over the world such people will exist.

Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has said if i would encounter them, i would kill them as they are the dogs of the hell. In other words if a prophet even says such a thing, this rather shows that such a people just need to be killed as there is no other way. They are NOT up to wanting to think or have dialogue. All these people can understand is war.

So first leave the real Muslims a lone by getting those corrupt western politicians and the Muslims will even with alliance of the rest of the people on this world fight such a people.

However this is NOT done. Right now is all the Muslims are being attacked.

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

However this is NOT done. Right now is all the Muslims are being attacked.

Tensions and Islamophobic incidents are increasing, but to generalize and say that "all Muslims are being attacked" is being quite dramatic.

I agree with what Silas said when he stated that: "Many people in the west don't know the difference between Sunni and Shia, and certainly don't know the difference between the schools of thought within Sunni Islam. They see terrorist attacks all over the world, airports and train stations being shut down, children being searched for weapons before they go into school, and they get scared. They then group all Muslims together and say they are all dangerous radicals."

But most people in the west are still quite open-minded, and they have not shut down their borders to Muslims, for instance. They are not banning mosques. The worst they have done is ban the niqab in public spaces in France. Note that the niqab is certainly not a requirement of Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

Since the one's who died are kuffar, they are all being punished now?

Ps. Are all kuffar the worst of creatures? Allah promised the kuffar Hell, does this apply here?

Do you want the Salafi version of Islam? The average Salafi would say yes. https://islamqa.info/en/13350

Others might argue that they will be tested on the Day of Judgement

format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere

Tensions and Islamophobic incidents are increasing, but to generalize and say that "all Muslims are being attacked" is being quite dramatic.

I agree with what Silas said when he stated that: "Many people in the west don't know the difference between Sunni and Shia, and certainly don't know the difference between the schools of thought within Sunni Islam. They see terrorist attacks all over the world, airports and train stations being shut down, children being searched for weapons before they go into school, and they get scared. They then group all Muslims together and say they are all dangerous radicals."

But most people in the west are still quite open-minded, and they have not shut down their borders to Muslims, for instance. They are not banning mosques. The worst they have done is ban the niqab in public spaces in France. Note that the niqab is certainly not a requirement of Islam.

What I mean by that statement is there isn't made a difference between peaceful Muslims and who are the peaceful Muslims? Knowing the difference or asking questions has two sides why this isn't happening.

1. Muslims are far away from Islamic teachings. They are not really that inviting when you look at them. Looking angry as if somebody just robbed them. While a Muslims has to smile and joke and spread warm feeling when somebody sees him/her.

2. Many western people just brand everything they do not know as something evil. Don't know a certain dish? Most probably tastes bad. Muslims have a habit they are foreign to..most probably bad...they have been brought up as if they are superior. The biggest sheep right now on earth are western people by majority.

The question off course is where does the solution lie? To my opinion it lies with the Muslims. Somebody might be a sheep ..somebody might look at everything that is unknown to them as bad ..but when somebody smiles and jokes people tend to lower their guards and laugh and joke back. However again how comes Muslims aren't doing that? Because Muslims themselves don't understand what Islam is about. Who is to be blamed? Dictators that prevent them to think freely to question ...which AGAIN brings us back to corrupt westen politicians....

It doesn't matter how you look at it..you will ALWAYS end up with corrupt western politicians being the root cause of it.

I joke and laugh with people of other faiths but I am absolutely not alone in this there are many more Muslims that do that and are even better in social interaction than I am. The question is how come there are such Muslims? We then come to the conclusion of free thinking but also pondering about both sides. Western people tend to stick as sheep with mass propaganda news and refuse to read other news of what is going on in the world. They are not even interested majority of times what is happening in other parts of the world because they are safe.

Muslims yes are brainwashed. Western people are brainwashed. In the west you can think freely however how come western people don't become like people who ask questions? Many just don't care ..as long as they are safe. This is also a very sick mentality to not look around and care about what is happening with other people.

There are those western people of other faiths that do questions and those people wake up and see what is going on. You see those people standing up for the oppressed..you see those people interact with all kind of people. However they still are a minority.

So again DO SOMETHING about corrupt western politicians if one wants change.

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/deva...183804255.html

U.S.‘Devastated’ Ariana Grande Met by Family as She Arrives in Florida Following Concert Terrorist Attack: ‘She Just Wants to Be with Loved Ones Right Now’ People Tue, May 23 12:38 PM MDT

Ariana Grande arrives at the 2016 Billboard Music Awards at T-Mobile Arena on May 22, 2016 in Las Vegas, Nevada. (Photo: Jon Kopaloff/FilmMagic)Singer Ariana Grande is safely home in the states, back in the arms of worried family after last night’s terror attack in Manchester. (Photo: Jon Kopaloff/FilmMagic)Ariana Grande has arrived back in the States following the devastating terrorist attack after her Manchester Arena show in the U.K. Monday evening.The singer, 23, was photographed landing in Boca Raton, Florida, where she was greeted by family at the airport, PEOPLE confirms.“It’s so, so sad. She loves her fans and is absolutely crushed and devastated as you can imagine,” a source close to Grande tells PEOPLE. “She can’t believe this happened. She just wants to be with her family and loved ones right now.”What began as a fun night out ended in tragedy when a suicide bomber blew himself up after Grande’s concert, killing 22 and injuring at least 59.The audience in Manchester included many children and teens, with their accompanying parents, and after the blast, eyewitnesses described to PEOPLE a scene of chaos and fear.Chief Constable Ian Hopkins of Greater Manchester Police said the explosion occurred around 10:33 p.m. local time near the ticket office outside the arena. Police believe the suspect, who is dead, is Salman Abedi, 22, said Hopkins, though he has not been formally identified by the coroner.In addition to Abedi, greater Manchester Police said they have arrested a 23-year-old man in connection with the incident, according to the Associated Press.“Broken,” Grande tweeted late Monday night. “From the bottom of my heart, I am so so sorry. I don’t have words.”The popstar’s team is currently assessing whether or not to continue her Dangerous Woman Tour following an attack at her Manchester Arena show Monday night that left 22 dead, but, “as of right now, the tour is not canceled,” a source close to the situation tells EW.“Right now, the focus is on the victims and grieving for them. We’re not focused on the tour,” the source adds. The source also clarified that Grande herself is physically “fine,” though “she’s just absolutely beside herself.”Grande is slated to perform at London’s O2 arena on Thursday and Friday, but the shows remain up in the air, with the venue tweeting, that they do not yet have an update as to whether or not the singer’s performances would happen as planned.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...cert/22108100/

Was Ariana Grande targeted? Former Jihadist says ISIS saw show as 'perverted PR opportunity' Inside EditionINSIDE EDITIONMay 24th 2017 5:54PMX

Ariana Grande sold-out Manchester Arena show may have specifically targeted by ISIS because of the singer's self-assurance and sexy, proudly feminine style, everything the terrorist organization despises.Read: Thousands Gather in Manchester Streets in Solidarity After Bombing: 'We Are the Many, They Are the Few'Grande has a vibrant social media following, and her concerts are packed with young women and girls who admire her message.Mubin Shaikh, a former extremist, believes ISIS viewed the attack as a kind of perverted "PR opportunity.""To hit a den of immorality, as ISIS acolytes are calling it, it's a great target for them," he said. "Ariana Grande is a big name brand; the media will descend on it. Children being killed will get coverage, and that emotional reaction. So, all these things are hitting at the same time at the same place."U2's Bono echoed that sentiment on Jimmy Kimmel Live Tuesday night."They hate music. They hate women. They even hate little girls. They hate everything that we love," the Irish rocker said. "The worst of humanity was on view in Manchester last night, but so was the best as people took perfect strangers into their houses and queued up at blood banks. Manchester has an undefeatable spirit, I can assure you."Now, some of the biggest stars in pop music are saying their shows will go on despite the carnage in Manchester.Photographers caught up to Nicki Minaj in Los Angeles where she said she will perform or else "they win."Katy Perry says she'll perform as scheduled at Radio 1's Big Weekend in Hull, England."I think that the greatest thing we could do is just unite and love on each other, and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist," she told Elvis Duran on Z100 radio in New York.Perry was blasted as "naive" by conservative commentator Michelle Malkin on Fox & Friends Wednesday morning.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

And then the kuffar media will call this a terror attack, smh.

But when it is a white American kafir there is only excuses.

Now, this will only make things harder for us Muslims in the west.

Allahu alam.

It is my understanding that the Imam at the mosque the terrorist had been attending spoke out against ISIS.

This is good to hear, but you have to understand that the "kafir" don't see this and don't hear about it. They don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and they wrongfully assume that many Muslims either support the radicals, or are simply afraid to speak out.

How many Fatwas have been issued against ISIS? I don't know the answer to that question, but I am going to assume that there haven't been enough.

In terms of public-relations, the best thing Muslims can do is to reach out to their communities. Hold conferences and meetings. Invite outsiders to the Masjid. Show them what Islam really looks like.

The Masjid in my area does this, and I know many of the members: they are terrific people. I then have to explain to some of my western friends that what they see on TV with masked radicals calling for the destruction of the west is NOT Islam.

Here in the US, white guys like me are denounced in the media and schools as racists, oppressors, misogynists, etc. Everything we own is considered "stolen" from some minority group, and we are told to renounce our "privilege".

So, like Muslims, others are painted with a black brush as well.

But we should not assume the role of a victim and become disgruntled or resentful. That is the path to radicalism, either political or religious.

The people that are pushing these narratives about gay rights, class-antagonism, religion-as-evil, are a very specific group. I can tell you I don't like them any more than the most devout Muslim likes them, because their ideology is contrary to my own.