The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
Well, what incentives would we have? I live in a place where I can practice my religion freely, perform dawah, have a stable job, and have a roof over my head. Muslims moving to Muslim majority countries (afterall, that's what an "Islamic" country is these days), will not solve the issues we have. In these "Muslim" countries, do they have problems there (sectarian issues, cultural issues, ect.)? If so, these problems should be addressed before trying to convince people to move away from their homes to live there. IMO of course.
Verily! As for those whom the Angels have taken (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory to them), they (angels) asked them, "In what condition were you?". They replied, "We were weak and oppressed on earth". The Angels asked, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to migrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who were unable to devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way [35]
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “I am not responsible for any Muslim who stays among polytheists. They asked: 'Why, Apostle of Allah? He said: ‘Their fires should not be visible to one another.’, and he (peace be upon him) said, “Who joins the polytheists and lives with them then he is like them” and he (peace be upon him) said: “Migration will not end until repentance ends, and repentance will not end until the sun rises in the west.”[36]
Al-Hassan Ibn Salih said: "whoever remains in the land of the enemy, will be treated like the disbelievers, so long as he was able to join the Muslims but did not do it. If one of the disbelievers accepts Islam, but still remains with the disbelievers, even though he was able to go to join the Muslims, he is to be treated like them; neither his blood nor his property will be protected. , [37]
[36] "Al-Musnad", Vol.4/99, Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad, Vol.3/7, Hadith 2479, and ad-Darami, Kitab as-Siyyar, Vol.2/239. Albani classifies it as Sahih. See: "Sahih al-Ja'mi' as-Sagheer", Vol.6/186, Hadith 7346.
Let's assume the premise of the OP is correct. Imagine, then, that a country's population turns Muslim gradually through dawah. Should they leave the country as they convert? What if almost everyone converts? Does that mean the country should be abandoned and only a small handful of nonmuslims left there?
are you a Muslim? This sounds like a far right argument rather then an Islamic argument. Your post talks exactly the way they state the fallacious argument.
We all know Muslims emigrated to Abyssinia early when they were being persecuted. Second of all there is no consensus of "dar al Islam" and dar al hrab - Its only opinions of scholars living in specific time period.
Where was dar al Islam and dar al harb when the colonists took over most of the lands that Muslims lived in?
what about when the ummayeds and the abbasids were against each other - Or the Mamuluks and then Ottomans.
Last edited by Zafran; 06-19-2017 at 11:23 PM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
I am Muslim but I . . . am not a Muslim hypocrite. I don’tspend a lot of time posting on these forums but I do often take a look at what’sbeing said. And, much of what I see is you (all) spending countlessdays of your life searching for ways to be more Muslim, believing that you willplease God by imitating the dress, life and ways of a 6C Muslim. All that but refusing to move to Dar al-Islamand away from the comfort, safety and protection provided in Dar al-Harb. YOU KNOWthat Britain, France,Germany andevery other European country could not fit into any sensible description of Daral-Islam.
I am Muslim and choose to believe what I choose to believeand I believe that the scriptures and early teachings that Muslims andnon-Muslims should not live together is correct because their beliefs, cultureand religions are so diametrically opposed to ours it must bring us intoconflict. In reality what happens isthat Muslims (like you (all)) live in Muslim communities in Dar al-Harb i.e.you create your own little country in their country because you can’t mix withthem and that causes conflict. I amMuslim and I choose to live in Dar al-harb but I dress like them, eat likethem, drink like them and fit in with them. And when I am called to account I will present myself as an honestMuslim not a hypocrite.
I am Muslim but maybe not your kind of Muslim and that posesanother problem . . . Muslims killing other Muslims for not beingtheir kind of Muslim!
I hope it does not degenerate into 'right' and 'wrong' and hurling of words not really fit for discussion purposes...
Post no 4 also gives other reasons and there are others too I am sure.
I already live in a muslim country, a colonised, muslim country, in truth. So there is no question of relocating, unless of course it was either to Mecca or Medinah . . . But to ponder on the OP, I guess this was the general rule back in the days, when we had an islamic empire where the shahadah was the passport, and the sunnah was the law (theoretically), but nowadays moving or relocating might pose a lot of difficulties. Nationalism.
In truth, I see that everything islamic is becoming harder and harder to achieve in the everyday life. The web of satanic laws have pinned us in where going about your normal lives will soon be acts of defiance to sirratulmustaqeem. Take how we use the banking system. The riba'. Free mixing in society. and more. The entire education system, laws etc..
In reality, we are surrounded by these conundrums. That is our 'jihad'. It is for us to see how we deal with these challenges.
My question to self is, the signs are clear that we are fast approaching the end times. But even our beloved prophet (pbuh) said that it is very close and as though it could have been around his time. But many things has not as yet come to pass at that time. If nabi Isa (pbuh) were to descend, would I scramble to be amongst him or would I be throwing my slipper at him. I pray that it would be the former, and that if I ever came across Dajjal and was offered heaven or hell, that my legs will walk me through the fire, ameen.
But back to the OP again, that statement, about choosing to migrate from one non muslim secular country to a muslim secular country if one was a muslim living in a non muslim country was something I did pay a lot of attention to. I pondered on it a lot! I studied in the UK nearly a decade in my teens and as such considered the possibilities of migrating.
To cut a long story short, I believe then in context. That the context of the message also had sub clauses to them, for example if I am in constant danger, oppressed, etc, then I should leave. But if I choose to stay.... ,also if the situation is 'fine' then I really have to beware that it becomes very easy to assimilate and hence liberalise... it might not be me, but the next generation will very likely ..
But then again, if Allah decides to take action against a certain community, the good ones amongst them will also perish. Hence the prophets and all the followers were told to leave a place before Allah strikes those people.
It is a very hard choice, very much like not using the banking system, almost if you can, being off the grid. Can we?
As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.
I am Muslim but I . . . am not a Muslim hypocrite. I don’tspend a lot of time posting on these forums but I do often take a look at what’sbeing said. And, much of what I see is you (all) spending countlessdays of your life searching for ways to be more Muslim, believing that you willplease God by imitating the dress, life and ways of a 6C Muslim. All that but refusing to move to Dar al-Islamand away from the comfort, safety and protection provided in Dar al-Harb. YOU KNOWthat Britain, France,Germany andevery other European country could not fit into any sensible description of Daral-Islam.
I am Muslim and choose to believe what I choose to believeand I believe that the scriptures and early teachings that Muslims andnon-Muslims should not live together is correct because their beliefs, cultureand religions are so diametrically opposed to ours it must bring us intoconflict. In reality what happens isthat Muslims (like you (all)) live in Muslim communities in Dar al-Harb i.e.you create your own little country in their country because you can’t mix withthem and that causes conflict. I amMuslim and I choose to live in Dar al-harb but I dress like them, eat likethem, drink like them and fit in with them. And when I am called to account I will present myself as an honestMuslim not a hypocrite.
I am Muslim but maybe not your kind of Muslim and that posesanother problem . . . Muslims killing other Muslims for not beingtheir kind of Muslim!
So after all that, you reveal that you yourself live in a non Muslim country, dress like them, eat like them, drink like them, and even fit in with them? Either that was a typo or I'm completely misunderstanding whats going on here.
But, to entertain the OPs message, what countries do you consider to be "Dar al-Islam"? I'm curious
I am Muslim but I . . . am not a Muslim hypocrite. I don’tspend a lot of time posting on these forums but I do often take a look at what’sbeing said. And, much of what I see is you (all) spending countlessdays of your life searching for ways to be more Muslim, believing that you willplease God by imitating the dress, life and ways of a 6C Muslim. All that but refusing to move to Dar al-Islamand away from the comfort, safety and protection provided in Dar al-Harb. YOU KNOWthat Britain, France,Germany andevery other European country could not fit into any sensible description of Daral-Islam.
I am Muslim and choose to believe what I choose to believeand I believe that the scriptures and early teachings that Muslims andnon-Muslims should not live together is correct because their beliefs, cultureand religions are so diametrically opposed to ours it must bring us intoconflict. In reality what happens isthat Muslims (like you (all)) live in Muslim communities in Dar al-Harb i.e.you create your own little country in their country because you can’t mix withthem and that causes conflict. I amMuslim and I choose to live in Dar al-harb but I dress like them, eat likethem, drink like them and fit in with them. And when I am called to account I will present myself as an honestMuslim not a hypocrite.
I am Muslim but maybe not your kind of Muslim and that posesanother problem . . . Muslims killing other Muslims for not beingtheir kind of Muslim!
You seem to be confused - dar al Islam and dar al Harb dont exist.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Most of the developed world is neither Islamic (Dar al-Islam) nor the House of War (Dar al-harb).
This situation has only really arisen since 1945 CE, thus isn't dealt with in the Quran.
Not a Quranic concept in the first place. Its a specific scholars view of the world. In a specific time period.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
Actually, the Middle East seems to be a hot mess right now but who's to say your guaranteed safety in the non Muslim countries! I somewhat agree with this because we don't know when the war of the Mahdi will come but it seems so soon. Who's to say the non Muslims won't turn on us and kill us in there lands! They're already started (ie uslamaphobic attacks). There spreading homosexuality and almost forcing you to accept it, there brainwashing the youth to loose there faith and get involved in sexuality and satanic music. I understand that we're in these countries to live a proper life that's not war torn and to have certain rights and opportunities but as long as we slave away in these countries how can we help develop the Muslim countries. My sincere question to you is , how will Muslims be inclined to move into a Muslim country if some leaders don't even follow according to Islamic rule themselves and work with the kafir countries to begin with?
The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
Fiqh al awluwiyaat....
If you are to apportion blame, place it where Allah places it and by magnitude...
You cannot blame a Muslim for living in a place where there's less Muslims - until you much more strongly blame non-Muslims for not being Muslim.
The duty to obey Allah falls upon everyone.
So please be just when proportioning.
It is better to tell all of the people including oneself to obey Allah, then if some people choose to continue commiting crimes and continue judging by falsehood and rejection of Allah and with corruption - and you have no capability of setting things right, you can tell the people who are better than them: "let's leave these evil people and not be partakers in crime so that we can find Allah's mercy.
9. Or dost thou reflect that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Sign? 10. Behold, the youths betook themselves to the Cave: they said, "Our Lord! bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way!"
11. Then We draw (a veil) over their ears, for a number of years, in the Cave, (so that they heard not):
12. Then We roused them, in order to test which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of years they had tarried! 13. We relate to thee their story in truth: they were youths who believed in their Lord, and We advanced them in guidance:
14. We gave strength to their hearts: Behold, they stood up and said: "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth: never shall we call upon any god other than Him: if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity!
15. "These our people have taken for worship gods other than Him: why do they not bring forward an authority clear (and convincing) for what they do? Who doth more wrong than such as invent a falsehood against Allah.
16. "When ye turn away from them and the things they worship other than Allah, betake yourselves to the Cave: Your Lord will shower His mercies on you and disposes of your affair towards comfort and ease."[
The non Muslim world is searching for answers, searching forsolutions to the ‘problem’ of Islamist Terrorism (Muslims killing innocentpeople in the name of their version of Islam). Surely you all know, as I do, that the answer is in the Qur’an and theteachings and guidance of the Prophet. It is clearly and unambiguously stated that Muslims must live in Muslimcountries (Dar al-Islam) and must NOT live in non Muslim countries (Daral-Harb). There are many sacred textsand guidance from respected scholars over the ages stating clearly that Muslimsmust not live amongst non Muslims.
Will you all agree with me that the answer to this problemis that all Muslims living in non Muslim countries should make Hijrah? And Will you all agree with me that those Muslims scholars thatcorrupt to words of the Qur’an and teachings of the Prophet by suggesting that Daral-Islam is "any country where Muslims can practice their faith" are heretics?
Why dont you stop watching CNN and those filthy bigots.
Learn who the terrorist is.
They blame Islam and Muslims while their forces are invading them.
The so caller terrorism is legitimate defence against invading forces.
And the Attacks on European soil and revenge.
Do you know in March US killed 1300 civians in Iraq?
Or that it used Chemical weopens in Fallujah?
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Zafran liked this post
. . . But to ponder on the OP, I guess this was the general rule back in the days, when we had an islamic empire where the shahadah was the passport, and the sunnah was the law (theoretically), but nowadays moving or relocating might pose a lot of difficulties. Nationalism.
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks