× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 34 of 34
  1. #1
    IB Oldtimer Array anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,188
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    4555
    Rep Power
    63

    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict (OP)


    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    (OFFTOPIC)


    http://ekurd.net/turkish-kurdistan-vote-war-2017-08-24

    Can you now understand how Turks bring up the whole PKK debate as..."We hate PKK, but we don't hate Kurds". Now is my logical, rational and reasonable question..what HAS Barzani (PDK) to do with PKK? They hate one another as in the past they even have fought against each other. However when i hear such things from such Turks, this is rather a wake up call to me that it has NOTHING to do with PKK, but they HATE Kurds. Which automatically includes me as i am a Kurd. The Turks fight for the Turkmen in Kirkuk, however when Kurds say what about Kurds in modern day south-east Turkey to Turks..then suddenly Kurds must keep their mouth shut. Isn't this hypocrisy? Isn't this a clear sign that these people have absolutely NOTHING to do with Islam and killing such people that show such level of hypocrisy is rather permissible according Islamic view. That is why even if a Kurd fighting along side PKK dies at the hands of the Turkish soldier, to me he is rather a martyr.

    I do not look at ooh that one is a "Muslim" and that one is a "non-Muslim". I see two groups. One is fighting oppression according to Islamic perspective and the other is oppressing. No need to bring out the whole ..ooh but he is a Muslim and that other guy isn't. If somebody is a Muslim, he MUST abide by Islamic rulings, there is no excuse to oppress a certain people..be it Muslim or non-Muslim.

    Many people THINK that just because they say i am a Muslim, that they automatically will end up in paradise. While there are for example clear hadith that say if one has pride or arrogance the size of a mustard seed he will not enter paradise. If one even thinks about this of having arrogance/pride the size of a mustard seed ...well iblies also believes in Allah, but has arrogance and pride. We all know he will end up in hell fire and will not enter paradise whatsoever.

    EDIT: ..yeah..what happened to ..ooh we hate PKK? You see these guys they say we are Muslims, but their actions show something else. Another confirmation they hate Kurds and PKK is just the excuse.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...distan-turkey/
    I have told you several times before what your problem is. You are generalizing people. There is a general "Turks" image in your eyes and you refer to it as "they/them" and unfortunately what you have is an illusionary image. Turk is the name of a race and nation and in wider extend it refers to all Turkic people from Uyghuristan to Turkey but not only Turkish people of Turkey and "we" differ a lot in ideology, philosophy and in several other aspects of life. As for Turkish people of Turkey that makes approximately %75 of Turkey's total population, there are people who are more nationalist, more racist, more Islamist, more communist, more Kemalist, more westernist, more humanist, more universalist etc. people compared to some others. This is a diverse people. So, I simply suggest you to wipe out that "Turks" image from your mind.

    I want to give a short history lecture before coming to the current problem. Turks and Kurds have always been allies in Anatolia since Turks started to migrate to the region after the battle of Manzikert. Even Kurds took the side of Turks (Seljuks) against the Byzantines in this battle. And Turks have always given the reward of this favour. Since both were Muslims. Of course some revolts occured against the rulers but this cannot be explained with nationalist motives since several Turks revolted against the Ottoman Empire through out history as well. However, the first nationallist and also Islamist motivational Kurdish rebelion against Turks occured just after the Turkish independace war in 1922. The British supported Kurdish Sheikh Said revolted against the new State to create another Kurdish Islamic state in South Eastern Anatolia. That was obviously plotted by the British. Brits have long been aware of the stateless Kurds and wanted to use them to create a satelite state in the mid of mid-east to control this oil-rich region. The revolt was harshly supressed.

    After that, I agree some racist governments culturally and some times physically oppressed Kurds. Most especially the military government after the 1980 coup oppressed Kurds a lot. But again we must see the grater map. PKK was found in 1977, before the coup. You must also knwo that Abdullah Öcalan was the leader of "ülkücüler/idealists" an extreme Turkish nationalist movement in the university years in early 70s. Öcalan's mother was Turk as he says. He disappears for a while and turns back with "PKK!". Also you must know that the 1980 coup was plotted by CIA. After the withdrawal of the British empire from the mid-east America had taken the same "mission". At first it seems contradictory for America to create a communist group like PKK but if you are a good "chess master" sometimes you must give a small pawn for the ultimate victory. All those so called Kurdish rebels, in fact terrorists ,of mid-east ,PKK, PJAK, YPG, Peshmerga etc., were created and/or are supported by America for the same target. Controlling the middle east from it's centre.

    PKK may have fought with Peshmerga because of a power conflict. They have been usually allies. Both Barzani and Talabani confesses that they had given support to PKK several times in some records. PKK are one of the worst and most cruel terrorist groups of all times. They did not target only the Turkish military but also civilian people including Turks and Kurds. They killed teachers considering them the representatives of "Turkish faicism". They killed Kurds and even their children in front of them who opposed PKK. They are suicide bombing in the middle of crowds in the cities. I am sure you are well aware of these atrocities of PKK and still say what they do can be Islamically justified. Either I don't know anything about Islam or you don't. There is not a third option. We will go on to slay these terrorists. If you consider them martyr thats your problem. And I can assure you at least half of Turkish Kurds oppose PKK and all seperatism. We can uderstand this even from the vote ratio of HDP. They had around %10 in the last elections but the total ethnic Kurdish population in Turkey is estimated around %20-22 and we cant even say all Kurds voting HDP are pro-PKK.

    I see only one option for the peace. Each side must recognize their faults. The racist Turks will give up racism and terrorist Kurds will give up terrorism. That's it.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    You harvest what you sow.

  2. #21
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,188
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    4555
    Rep Power
    63
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    663

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Report bad ads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    The PKK have committed less crimes than the Turkish state.
    Also regarding HDP, they won the majority vote in the Kurdish areas. I don't know of any group of people where the turnout is 100%. Furthermore, the HDP had 13% in the first general election of 2015, but 10% in the second one because of the escalating Turkish military campaign, which was undoubtedly orchestrated by the Turkish government to reduce the Kurdish turnout.

    Now look at HDP, a peaceful party, but its founders and members rounded up by the Turkish state.

    Turkey has no business ruling Kurds. We don't want Turkey to rule us. End of story. Why don't the Turkish people understand that simple reality?
    When HDP had %13 at first there were Turkish votes in it from Kemalists and even nationalists just to reduce the AKP's vote ratio in the southeast. Even HDP ackowleged it as deposit votes. They took it back after seeing the wildness PKK once more time. I am not promoting AKP , they are chief devils who are responsible of the chaos after July 2015 but PKK are doing the same thing. They are oppressing Kurds to vote for HDP. HDPs Kurdish votes do not excede %11 and this only half of the estimated total Kurdish population of Turkey. How do you know that Kurds dont want Turkey? Have you ever made a survey?
    Last edited by anatolian; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:11 AM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    You harvest what you sow.

  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #22
    sister herb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,731
    Threads
    332
    Reputation
    53735
    Rep Power
    101
    Likes (Given)
    5824
    Likes (Received)
    6812

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    The PKK have committed less crimes than the Turkish state.
    This is completely unsustainable justification when it goes to the human rights violations. Crime against other people is a crime, just same if you have made one crime and brother anatolian two crimes. You both are on the same line when it goes to the question who is quilty for the human rights violations.

    Note: I used you and br anatolian just as examples. I don´t claim that you two would have done any crimes.
    1 | Likes Simple_Person liked this post
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  5. #23
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    How can I help you unless you clearly tell me with what I am being accused? You couldnt even tell me that simple thing yet. Is it nationalism? Since when nationalism is a crime? I am admiting the crimes Turkey has ever commited but am just not exegerating as PKK propoganda wants me to.
    This "simple" thing is what is the biggest dividends. In the past i already have told you, lets say the M... arrives and he says the country X is our enemy as they oppose everything that i say and i have come and act in the name of Allah. You rather admit pursuing nationalism. You cannot be a nationalist and yet a Muslim. It is either a Muslim or a nationalist. That is one thing.

    The other thing is, saying Turkey has done x, y, z while still supporting the state has has and still is supporting it. That is saying well i person X has killed somebody and i admit it is bad, but i am still a supporter of person X. In other words..this whole admitting is not admitting. Because nothing changes at all. So for me hearing it is rather you trying to "ease" my heart, but as i have a very critical view on things and ask questions upon questions until my brain is satisfied not my heart this whole argument of yours rather shows..well you are not sorry about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Yes Kurdish idendity and language was forbiden once and the ones supporting it were oppressed. But I believe such things are not just reason to create a bloody terrorist group.
    Sub'han'Allah, look at this. This again not only for me, just let anybody else read who has even a ounce of honesty and justice in their heart and let them say if Allah has not made you blind for the truth. Now kids (for everyone who is reading), this is what nationalism does to you. BEWARE!!. I often thank Allah for making me from a people who is being oppressed instead of being the oppressor. When you are blind for the truth and justice it has rather to do with something that contains in your heart as Allah does not make His servants blind for truth and justice. So far looking at what it contains in once heart is all i can conclude with you anatolian is that you rather have something that does not has a place to be there...which is nationalism.

    When dialogue does not achieve what it needs to achieve because the oppressors do not wish to find peaceful means, action needs to take place. This basic human nature. Even in Islam. Jihad being it. Fight oppression.

    "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." Qur'an 2:193

    Who are the oppressors? Well if you have a ounce of honesty oppression can be easily filled with all of things. This day and age oppression is still going on, yet Erdogan and his media is portraying things so good. For example, why do you think Turkey right now is so obsessed with having "free visas" to EU? Why? Every wondered that? If they would get free visas you yourself know that MANY Kurds will migrate to EU. Thus leaving their homeland and thus changing demographics. You think this is not part of oppression? Go think dude, because neither you nor me is tomorrow promised.

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    The reason why I implied "marxist" is because they are supposedly supporter of worker rights but kill workers
    To give you an example. You have those "village guards". Those are Kurds that get money from the Turkish state. In other words treason. In every religion and country there are certain things upon treason. You have workers that go and do something for the sake of money that is benefiting Turkish state. Again, since when is that not treason if we talk about Kurds. If they are Turks, it is rather a warning. DO NOT HELP those people. You have people in western modern day Turkey who work in tourism, since when does PKK go and kill somebody lets say a waiter =_=!?? Does a waiter benefit Turkish state..well only paying taxes maybe, but nothing more than that. But if you help Turkish state building a wall on the artificial borders well sorry but i do not shed 1 tear for you if you are killed. You are well aware that you include yourself in the war between PKK and Turkish state. You are well aware that helping Turkish state to achieve certain goal is benefiting the Turkish state and putting PKK in disadvantage.

    There are Kurds who say they are against PKK. You know what i say, i have no problems with you..do as you fit. However when you help Turkish state instead, well i do not shed a tear for you if you are killed by PKK. If you are not for PKK, then also don't help the Turkish state. In other words you choose no sides. This is the definition of somebody who is really innocent if killed.

    So from now on say Turkish "kafir" secular state and Turkish "Hypocrite"-Erdogan state when you say Marxist PKK. Then i have no problem with it. Or else say Turkish state and PKK no addition to either one of the two.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  6. #24
    Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    75
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    88
    Rep Power
    9
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    40

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    When HDP had %13 at first there were Turkish votes in it from Kemalists and even nationalists just to reduce the AKP's vote ratio in the southeast. Even HDP ackowleged it as deposit votes. They took it back after seeing the wildness PKK once more time. I am not promoting AKP , they are chief devils who are responsible of the chaos after July 2015 but PKK are doing the same thing. They are oppressing Kurds to vote for HDP. HDPs Kurdish votes do not excede %11 and this only half of the estimated total Kurdish population of Turkey. How do you know that Kurds dont want Turkey? Have you ever made a survey?
    You are being dishonest when you claim that Kurds want Turkey. The same Turkey that banned their language, denied them their existence, to this day the official Turkish claim is that Kurds are nothing but Mountain Turks. It's always been the dream of the Kurds to be independent for more than a century. This is not even up for debate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sister herb View Post
    This is completely unsustainable justification when it goes to the human rights violations. Crime against other people is a crime, just same if you have made one crime and brother anatolian two crimes. You both are on the same line when it goes to the question who is quilty for the human rights violations.

    Note: I used you and br anatolian just as examples. I don´t claim that you two would have done any crimes.
    You missed my point. He uses the PKK's crimes as a reason to discredit their cause completely, but yet he brushes off the Turkish state's crimes as just mistakes.

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #25
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Tell me then why HDP the so called defender of the Kurdish rights have %10 of votes despite PKK's oppresion to vote for this party? Kurds make around %22 of total population. If you can answer it I will answer the rest of your post
    You know why? Because of lack of education. A couple of months ago just before the Turkish presidential referendum, some Kurdish couple were asked what they were voting for. You know what they said? They said we are going to vote YES. Why? They said in such a long time nobody cared about the road of our village. When Erdogan came to power, he fixed the road to our village. This is BRIBERY!!. By keeping Kurds uneducated, the Kurds do not realize that somebody in power is not really caring for you, he is rather deceiving you.

    If Kurdistan would come to existence, you really think such villages would be forgotten? This sadly uneducated Kurds do not realize or think about. As we human beings are hasty in everything. For me in the past just before i reverted back to Islam, i was such a nationalist. I had the Kurdish flag hung on the wall. When i became Muslim and pondered and educated myself on more things, i took off the Kurdish flag from my wall. Then off course is the question how come i still "bite" on this subject?

    I see two groups, oppressors and the oppressed. I do not see Kurds and Turks. Look at the Arabs living in as-sham under the oppression of the Zionists. I don't see ooh they are Arabs and Jews =_=!. A Jew would abide by their scripture and not commit oppression. Arabs however that lives there many know what is oppression, yet still because they are Pro-Muslim brotherhood, they do not speak out against the oppression the Turkish state is doing right now as Erdogan is also pro-Muslim brotherhood. Many even joined Saddam Hussein against the Kurds. This is ANOTHER sign of that these Arabs are not really caring about oppression, rather about nationalism. Sadly there are many innocent Arabs that suffer because of nationalistic mindset of many Arabs there.

    Allah is sure tester and He brings out what people try to hide deep in their heart. Many things to this day have been shown to everybody so nobody can confuse group X or group Y to be "Muslims" and following "Islamic traditions". All you see is nationalism, greed for money, greed for power and control.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    You missed my point. He uses the PKK's crimes as a reason to discredit their cause completely, but yet he brushes off the Turkish state's crimes as just mistakes.
    Bro, i am not sure if you are a Kurd, but if you are..this is nothing new to us Kurds. Turks have always been doing it, he is even doing it right now if you can read between the lines.

    However sister herb indeed is right. Within Islam if i stole something from the shop, that doesn't justify it because you also had stolen 2 things from the shop. We are both criminals and cannot be compared to one another. Both need to be punished or dealt with according to their crimes.

    For now is what is gonna change so it never happens again. As you said it clearly in one of your posts, which i agree is a independent Kurdistan. I have also said before if countries would keep on existing how they are right now, i also want a independent Kurdistan. If they would stop existing to make place for a Islamic Caliphate, i then am for a Islamic Caliphate. ..REAL Islamic Caliphate not that fake ISIS aka CIA/MOSSAD/MIT nonsense. (btw, why MIT included?)..IF ISIS was really pro-Islam, they would also have so to say attacked Turkey..however they were friends =_=!.

    But anyway you get my point.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  9. #26
    Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    75
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    88
    Rep Power
    9
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    40

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    You know why? Because of lack of education. A couple of months ago just before the Turkish presidential referendum, some Kurdish couple were asked what they were voting for. You know what they said? They said we are going to vote YES. Why? They said in such a long time nobody cared about the road of our village. When Erdogan came to power, he fixed the road to our village. This is BRIBERY!!. By keeping Kurds uneducated, the Kurds do not realize that somebody in power is not really caring for you, he is rather deceiving you.

    If Kurdistan would come to existence, you really think such villages would be forgotten? This sadly uneducated Kurds do not realize or think about. As we human beings are hasty in everything. For me in the past just before i reverted back to Islam, i was such a nationalist. I had the Kurdish flag hung on the wall. When i became Muslim and pondered and educated myself on more things, i took off the Kurdish flag from my wall. Then off course is the question how come i still "bite" on this subject?

    I see two groups, oppressors and the oppressed. I do not see Kurds and Turks. Look at the Arabs living in as-sham under the oppression of the Zionists. I don't see ooh they are Arabs and Jews =_=!. A Jew would abide by their scripture and not commit oppression. Arabs however that lives there many know what is oppression, yet still because they are Pro-Muslim brotherhood, they do not speak out against the oppression the Turkish state is doing right now as Erdogan is also pro-Muslim brotherhood. Many even joined Saddam Hussein against the Kurds. This is ANOTHER sign of that these Arabs are not really caring about oppression, rather about nationalism. Sadly there are many innocent Arabs that suffer because of nationalistic mindset of many Arabs there.

    Allah is sure tester and He brings out what people try to hide deep in their heart. Many things to this day have been shown to everybody so nobody can confuse group X or group Y to be "Muslims" and following "Islamic traditions". All you see is nationalism, greed for money, greed for power and control.
    I believe @anatolian genuinely wants good relations and peace between Kurds and Turks, but under the condition that Turks rule. In his mind, he thinks he is being fair, but really he is subscribing to the same ultranationalism of Ataturk that all of Anatolia must be ruled by the "superior Turks"
    Last edited by Freedom; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:57 AM.

  10. #27
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    I believe @anatolian genuinely wants good relations and peace between Kurds and Turks, but under the condition that Turks rule. In his mind, he thinks he is being fair, but really he is subscribing to the same ultranationalism of Ataturk that all of Anatolia must be ruled by the "superior Turks"
    Oke, let me give him a GOOD solution.

    I do NOT want this country called Turkey to fall. Instead, i want the country to change it's name to Kurdistan, change it's flag to Kurdish flag and change primary language to Arabic. Kurdish and Turkish let them be secondary languages of it.

    This is when you bring nationalism up if one has nationalism in their heart. If somebody really did not care about nationalism but really just did not wanted the country to fall, they would agree to this solution as even a good solution. So @anatolian, would you agree that this might be a good solution? As the country did not fall and thus a end has come to fighting.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  11. #28
    Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    75
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    88
    Rep Power
    9
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    40

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Oke, let me give him a GOOD solution.

    I do NOT want this country called Turkey to fall. Instead, i want the country to change it's name to Kurdistan, change it's flag to Kurdish flag and change primary language to Arabic. Kurdish and Turkish let them be secondary languages of it.

    This is when you bring nationalism up if one has nationalism in their heart. If somebody really did not care about nationalism but really just did not wanted the country to fall, they would agree to this solution as even a good solution. So @anatolian, would you agree that this might be a good solution? As the country did not fall and thus a end has come to fighting.
    Lol, he is gonna acknowledge that Turkish identity is based on Turkishness. That by its nature excludes Kurds.

    We Kurds are Iranian peoples from the mountains, not Turkics from the steppes.

  12. #29
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Lol, he is gonna acknowledge that Turkish identity is based on Turkishness. That by its nature excludes Kurds.

    We Kurds are Iranian peoples from the mountains, not Turkics from the steppes.
    Nope, we Kurds are not Iranian people from the mountains. Kurds and old Persians were the same people, but not "Persians". The so called Persian history starts with Cyrus the Great, while nobody asks ..well if Cyrus the Great created Persia, what where they before? The current Iranians, are NOT the descendants of those Persians. The current Iranians are comparable with many people who call themselves Turks, while they for example have NO ties whatsoever with Turkics. They are rather from the Balkan areas as Mustafa Kemal wanted to make Kurds a minority he gave nationalities like candy. That is why Kurds have become a minority. Anatolian so far i have discussed with him is one of those people that his descendants is based on Balkan area. So not Turkic ties whatsoever. Real Turkic people have a bit looks like Mongolians and down that road appearance. While you see some say they are Turks, while you can clearly see based on their appearance they have Kurdish ancestry.

    Islam even confirms this a bit. As isthe boat of Nuh(as) is based on Mount Judi near silopia and Cizre. ..which is you even could say the HEART of Kurdistan if one would combine all the parts.

    Now looking at Cyrus the Great (his mother a Median princes) his rule was around 500 BC. However if we look at other foundlings for example things like historic Mesopotamia.

    Mesopotamia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rio%29.svg.png
    Kurdistan how Kurds see it: https://decolonialatlas.files.wordpr...distan-map.png

    What a coincidence isn't it?

    Now if we look at findings of that area you come to things like "Epic of gilgamesh"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

    Language sub'han'Allah is such a great gift of Allah. Language is something that is SUPER hard to extinguish. In Kurdish and i believe many dialects of us Kurds supports this.. we have something called "ga" which is a bull. "Gamesh" is a African bull. I am not sure in other dialects but in Kurmanji i believe a African bull is still called "gamesh".

    In the Qur'an Prophet Nuh(as) did a dua to place his boat on a blessed place. Well as a Kurd yourself, i do not have to tell you that Kurdish area is indeed very blessed. Fertile lands, A LOT of springs, mountains. We do not need anything as everything we can get from the land it self.

    Now if we already can track back language to about 2000 BC..that rather shows indeed that Kurds were there already. So the old-Persians are rather also Kurds but split from them. I read couple of months ago that even Persian is not a people, but rather a job-title. Which could indeed confirm many things i have said before as they have "split" from the Kurds but are the same people. "Paristan" means guarding in Kurdish. "Paris" is a guard. Which ALSO confirms why Iranians of today have things like Newroz. If they indeed were a different people, then they would have other customs, but yet they have the same customs as the Kurds in general.

    So it is not that Kurds are Iranian people, rather OLD-Persians are Kurdish people (Better to say Medes or whatever). But current Iranians are not. They also have come from all kind of surrounding parts like many modern day people who call themselves Turks from Turkey. As you can see that their appearance does not look like the Kurds whatsoever. They have more like hollow eye sockets and a bit like brownish circles around their eyes.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:51 AM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #30
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,188
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    4555
    Rep Power
    63
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    663

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    This "simple" thing is what is the biggest dividends. In the past i already have told you, lets say the M... arrives and he says the country X is our enemy as they oppose everything that i say and i have come and act in the name of Allah. You rather admit pursuing nationalism. You cannot be a nationalist and yet a Muslim. It is either a Muslim or a nationalist. That is one thing.

    The other thing is, saying Turkey has done x, y, z while still supporting the state has has and still is supporting it. That is saying well i person X has killed somebody and i admit it is bad, but i am still a supporter of person X. In other words..this whole admitting is not admitting. Because nothing changes at all. So for me hearing it is rather you trying to "ease" my heart, but as i have a very critical view on things and ask questions upon questions until my brain is satisfied not my heart this whole argument of yours rather shows..well you are not sorry about anything.



    Sub'han'Allah, look at this. This again not only for me, just let anybody else read who has even a ounce of honesty and justice in their heart and let them say if Allah has not made you blind for the truth. Now kids (for everyone who is reading), this is what nationalism does to you. BEWARE!!. I often thank Allah for making me from a people who is being oppressed instead of being the oppressor. When you are blind for the truth and justice it has rather to do with something that contains in your heart as Allah does not make His servants blind for truth and justice. So far looking at what it contains in once heart is all i can conclude with you anatolian is that you rather have something that does not has a place to be there...which is nationalism.

    When dialogue does not achieve what it needs to achieve because the oppressors do not wish to find peaceful means, action needs to take place. This basic human nature. Even in Islam. Jihad being it. Fight oppression.

    "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." Qur'an 2:193

    Who are the oppressors? Well if you have a ounce of honesty oppression can be easily filled with all of things. This day and age oppression is still going on, yet Erdogan and his media is portraying things so good. For example, why do you think Turkey right now is so obsessed with having "free visas" to EU? Why? Every wondered that? If they would get free visas you yourself know that MANY Kurds will migrate to EU. Thus leaving their homeland and thus changing demographics. You think this is not part of oppression? Go think dude, because neither you nor me is tomorrow promised.



    To give you an example. You have those "village guards". Those are Kurds that get money from the Turkish state. In other words treason. In every religion and country there are certain things upon treason. You have workers that go and do something for the sake of money that is benefiting Turkish state. Again, since when is that not treason if we talk about Kurds. If they are Turks, it is rather a warning. DO NOT HELP those people. You have people in western modern day Turkey who work in tourism, since when does PKK go and kill somebody lets say a waiter =_=!?? Does a waiter benefit Turkish state..well only paying taxes maybe, but nothing more than that. But if you help Turkish state building a wall on the artificial borders well sorry but i do not shed 1 tear for you if you are killed. You are well aware that you include yourself in the war between PKK and Turkish state. You are well aware that helping Turkish state to achieve certain goal is benefiting the Turkish state and putting PKK in disadvantage.

    There are Kurds who say they are against PKK. You know what i say, i have no problems with you..do as you fit. However when you help Turkish state instead, well i do not shed a tear for you if you are killed by PKK. If you are not for PKK, then also don't help the Turkish state. In other words you choose no sides. This is the definition of somebody who is really innocent if killed.

    So from now on say Turkish "kafir" secular state and Turkish "Hypocrite"-Erdogan state when you say Marxist PKK. Then i have no problem with it. Or else say Turkish state and PKK no addition to either one of the two.
    You have been proven yourself what kind of a terrorist mindset you have with this post. You are justifying the murder of civillians. Bravo! They are not "helping" the Turkish state, they are helping the civilization, humanity. They are bringing the civilization to "your" Kurds. And you shamlessly blame Turkey with keeping Kurds uneducated. And of course we will go on to fight with this kind of mentality until the end. Thats enough for Eid.
    Last edited by anatolian; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:24 PM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    You harvest what you sow.

  15. #31
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    You have been proven yourself what kind of a terrorist mindset you have with this post. You are justifying the murder of civillians. Bravo! They are not "helping" the Turkish state, they are helping the civilization, humanity. They are bringing the civilization to "your" Kurds. And you shamlessly blame Turkey with keeping Kurds uneducated. And of course we will go on to fight with this kind of mentality until the end. Thats enough for Eid.
    Terrorist mindset =_=!. As i have said earlier in other posts, i love human psychology. The war that is being waged in present day is not through bullets anymore, it is the psychological war that is being waged (ie propaganda, destroying ones identity). The honest person is depicted as a liar and the liar is depicted as a honest person. People are being robbed from their dignity, principles, property, identity through psychological warfare. Many Kurds in Turkey are even ashamed of saying they are Kurds because saying you as a Kurd is automatically seen as backward and ret*rded. This bringing "civilization" is one of those means as i have said before. Erdogan giving them a candy to rob them further of what belongs to them.

    Just a few days ago saw a documentary called "Poor us: An Animated History of Poverty". In that documentary i kept on 1 specific thing in my memory. One of the speakers said in poor countries about 1 billion dollars is exported to rich countries and about one 8th is given back in aid from the rich countries. So somebody is robbing you and telling you in the mean time ..look i give you developing aid. If that stuff that is already part of your land stays in your land, every land can develop their self. No need for western "aid". It is a BIG psychological warfare and people are completely blind to it while being robbed in clear daylight. This is exactly the same with Turkish government and Kurds. Kurdish lands besides tourism(mountains to ruins of the past to even religious places), they also have a lot of oil. Also the source of the rivers Tigris and Euphrates BOTH originate in Northern Kurdistan (modern day south-eastern Turkey). I believe the Turks have removed many old ruins to replace them with dams and such. Such ruins to UNESCO would be compared to gold, although i only see ruins as an aya to what happened to those people..(ie only some stones remained of their existence because Allah destroyed them), but just for the sake of seeing it. The place prophet Nuh(as) his boat according to archaeologists is set, would have been one of the largest tourist place to many religions.

    And now you say the Turks are "developing" Kurdish area's =_=!. If i would not have known these things myself i would even have believed you and have questioned myself. The truth is clear from falsehood, you either hate the person who speaks the truth or love the person who speaks the truth. I know it is not a good feeling when one pushes you in your open wound.

    Btw, in the past i wasn't aware about whole western Kurdistan (Rojava - modern day north eastern Syria) and why Turkey so fiercely objected against it. It is Turkey's WORST nightmare. When all the cantons including path is cleared all the way to Mediterranean sea, that many Arab tribes and villages would want to be part of it, it means no more exporting oil and gas whatever through Turkey. I mean if i would be the oppressor i would also be very scared for the one whom i have oppressed because when he would get something, i am sure he would let me pay for all the harm i have done to him. I mean for the sake of argument IF the Greater Kurdistan becomes reality and path is included all the way to Mediterranean sea, this means no more oil being exported through Turkey, but rather directed through oil pipe lines to Greece. That being said, Turkey has no more direct contact to Arab world nor Iran. The only financial gain Turkey can get is tourism and export of fruits and vegetables. Well just recently we have seen (Russia boycotting Turkey) how dangerous it is if that is their ONLY source of income. They are at mercy of countries they do business with..(export). So you can bring Turks to their knees without even firing one bullet at them. Just not have any financial ties with them and your currency indeed is one's lifeline. When your currency has died it is the end of that particular country. Well Orthodox Christians still have not forgotten about Constantinople and Hagia Sophia...keep on eating from NATO's plate or else it is your end if one doesn't.

    We will see what is gonna happen, as Turkey with each day is becoming MORE and stronger allies with Qatar(Muslim Brotherhood) and Iran (ie. enemies to Saudi Arabia, Eqypt and many other Arab countries).

    Last edited by Simple_Person; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:46 PM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  16. #32
    Mustafa16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,030
    Threads
    348
    Reputation
    2183
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    373
    Likes (Received)
    282

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    although I will admit, the PKK is also a terror group, and I don't support them one bit....but i suppose all oppression leads to radicalization and desperate measures......still, PKK are scum.... @Simple_Person , you're right, Kurds have and continue to face great atrocities, but @anatolian you're right, PKK has also committed great atrocities.....im not denying that.....I hope the Turks and Kurds can live together in peace.......it is not right for fellow Muslims, especially with a shared history, to be divided on ethnic nationalist lines......that is the mentality of the kaafir...is nationalism on the basis of skin complexion, looks, or culture.....and besides, the answer is CIVIC nationalism, not ethnic nationalism.

  17. #33
    Simple_Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Hidden in the cracks of society
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,178
    Threads
    19
    Reputation
    3078
    Rep Power
    6
    Likes (Given)
    553
    Likes (Received)
    610

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    although I will admit, the PKK is also a terror group, and I don't support them one bit....but i suppose all oppression leads to radicalization and desperate measures......still, PKK are scum.... @Simple_Person , you're right, Kurds have and continue to face great atrocities, but @anatolian you're right, PKK has also committed great atrocities.....im not denying that.....I hope the Turks and Kurds can live together in peace.......it is not right for fellow Muslims, especially with a shared history, to be divided on ethnic nationalist lines......that is the mentality of the kaafir...is nationalism on the basis of skin complexion, looks, or culture.....and besides, the answer is CIVIC nationalism, not ethnic nationalism.
    What has happened has happened that for once and each group has to pay for their deeds, nobody is denying that. What now needs to be done is looking at the present and the future. We do not know the future, so what leaves is the present.

    In Islam there is no kafir and Muslim or hypocrite or Muslim or polytheist and Muslim or people of the book and Muslim. In Islam there is SIMPLY the oppressor and the oppressed. Now in this war between PKK and Turkish government, we simply ask logical, rational and reasonable questions.

    Question 1: What is the reason PKK fights the Turkish government? They(PKK) answers: Kurds are being oppressed.
    Question 2: What is the reason Turkish government fights PKK? They(Turkish government) answers: PKK is a separatist organization.

    What is the definition of separatist?

    ===========
    someone who is a member of a particular race, religion, or other group within a country and who believes that this group should be independent and have their own government or in some way live apart from other people
    Source used: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...ish/separatist
    ===========

    Question 3: Why does PKK want to separate the Kurds from Turkey? They (PKK) answers: The oppression has and still is being done.
    Question 4: Is there any historical OBJECTIVE evidence that what PKK says is true? Objective evidence, yes as not only PKK says this, but objective evidence points also to this and even Turks admit to this.
    Question 5: Is this oppression still going on?
    - If yes, based on what objective evidence?
    - If no, based on what objective evidence?

    As a Kurd and not taking sides (subjectivity) rather looking at all the evidence (objectivity), i even see that it is not really only bounded to PKK. I mean PKK is one thing and Turkey says YPG is part of PKK. For the sake of the argument, lets agree that indeed YPG and PKK are one group. But then is my question what has Barazani (PDK) to have a independent referendum from Iraq to do with PKK? As even Turkey is against this referendum as they say it will bring instability, but they do not care for democratic rights?

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/en/o...-quandary.html

    Based on OBJECTIVE evidence, what has South Kurdistan (Modern day Northern Iraq) to do with PKK and YPG? I personally see absolutely NO connection rather the ONLY connection that i see is that they all are Kurds.

    Question 6: What has Kurds to do with PKK, YPG, when they want to have a independent referendum?

    I'm sorry but do i have to chew even more for the person reading this not only directing to you mustafa16. I mean how clear is this that for Turkey as long as Kurds remain separate, it is in their interest. So it has nothing to do with PKK or whatever organization. If it would have to do with PKK and YPG, then Turkey should have kept their mouth shut about the referendum in southern Kurdistan (modern day northern Iraq).

    So Turkey is against independence referendum, but Erdogan was all to happy to want to have the presidential referendum. So the Turks have all the rights to choose what they want to do this or that, but others are not. Isn't this called hypocrisy?

    I know @anatolian, the hate that you have makes you crazy when somebody shows the hypocrisy of the Turks. I can't help it. It is one of the characteristics of mine to not keep my mouth shut when i see hypocrisy and injustice.

    So it all comes down that really based on the fight between PKK and Turkish Government, it is rather Turkish government who is being the oppressor. Now for you to brand PKK as a terrorist organization, i am sorry but i do not see them as a terrorist organization. A terrorist is one who puts fear in my heart. I am not afraid of PKK nor for Turkish government. So neither one of the two are to me a terrorist organization. All i am seeing is the oppressor and the oppressed. Take it or leave it. Truth is clear form falsehood. I know you do not like those words, you want to give your own definition to things. But things don't work like that, mr balkan i better should say..as you (i am still confused) are so pro-Turk, but have no Turkic ancestry. But whatever..what makes you happy.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  18. #34
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,188
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    4555
    Rep Power
    63
    Likes (Given)
    208
    Likes (Received)
    663

    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    The PKK have committed less crimes than the Turkish state.
    Also regarding HDP, they won the majority vote in the Kurdish areas. I don't know of any group of people where the turnout is 100%. Furthermore, the HDP had 13% in the first general election of 2015, but 10% in the second one because of the escalating Turkish military campaign, which was undoubtedly orchestrated by the Turkish government to reduce the Kurdish turnout.

    Now look at HDP, a peaceful party, but its founders and members rounded up by the Turkish state.

    Turkey has no business ruling Kurds. We don't want Turkey to rule us. End of story. Why don't the Turkish people understand that simple reality?
    Turkey is a Democratic Republic. If you think that your rights are violated you creat a political party and demand it by democratic means by representing yourself in the perliement. You cant terorize the country.

    HDP was theorically great but they have had direct connections with PKK. They cannot separate themselves from terror. There was an Islamic Kurdish party called HUDAPAR but PKK terrorized them too regarding them an enemy of HDP.

    You need to explain still why half of Kurds of Turkey dont vote for HDP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    although I will admit, the PKK is also a terror group, and I don't support them one bit....but i suppose all oppression leads to radicalization and desperate measures......still, PKK are scum.... @Simple_Person , you're right, Kurds have and continue to face great atrocities, but @anatolian you're right, PKK has also committed great atrocities.....im not denying that.....I hope the Turks and Kurds can live together in peace.......it is not right for fellow Muslims, especially with a shared history, to be divided on ethnic nationalist lines......that is the mentality of the kaafir...is nationalism on the basis of skin complexion, looks, or culture.....and besides, the answer is CIVIC nationalism, not ethnic nationalism.
    Turkish national identity is a civic one anyway according to the constitution. In the Turkish constitution "Turkish " is defined as all the people living in Turkey redardless of any ethnic or religious background. There are several other ethnic minorities in Turkey apart from Kurds and most of them are OK with being Turkish as identity.
    Last edited by anatolian; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:23 AM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    You harvest what you sow.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Hey there! Turkish-Kurdish Conflict Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Turkish-Kurdish Conflict
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Kurdistan Kurdish PKK peshmarga who are they ?
    By Mr.President in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-02-2015, 09:27 PM
  2. Syrian helicopter is down by Turkish jets: Turkish Deputy PM
    By Nur Student in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-16-2013, 07:45 PM
  3. Q&A: DR Congo conflict
    By Sahabiyaat in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 06:45 PM
  4. kurdish independence
    By blunderbus in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-09-2007, 07:47 AM
  5. The Kashmir conflict
    By Hajar in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-02-2005, 06:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •