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Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

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    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict (OP)


    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    (OFFTOPIC)


    http://ekurd.net/turkish-kurdistan-vote-war-2017-08-24

    Can you now understand how Turks bring up the whole PKK debate as..."We hate PKK, but we don't hate Kurds". Now is my logical, rational and reasonable question..what HAS Barzani (PDK) to do with PKK? They hate one another as in the past they even have fought against each other. However when i hear such things from such Turks, this is rather a wake up call to me that it has NOTHING to do with PKK, but they HATE Kurds. Which automatically includes me as i am a Kurd. The Turks fight for the Turkmen in Kirkuk, however when Kurds say what about Kurds in modern day south-east Turkey to Turks..then suddenly Kurds must keep their mouth shut. Isn't this hypocrisy? Isn't this a clear sign that these people have absolutely NOTHING to do with Islam and killing such people that show such level of hypocrisy is rather permissible according Islamic view. That is why even if a Kurd fighting along side PKK dies at the hands of the Turkish soldier, to me he is rather a martyr.

    I do not look at ooh that one is a "Muslim" and that one is a "non-Muslim". I see two groups. One is fighting oppression according to Islamic perspective and the other is oppressing. No need to bring out the whole ..ooh but he is a Muslim and that other guy isn't. If somebody is a Muslim, he MUST abide by Islamic rulings, there is no excuse to oppress a certain people..be it Muslim or non-Muslim.

    Many people THINK that just because they say i am a Muslim, that they automatically will end up in paradise. While there are for example clear hadith that say if one has pride or arrogance the size of a mustard seed he will not enter paradise. If one even thinks about this of having arrogance/pride the size of a mustard seed ...well iblies also believes in Allah, but has arrogance and pride. We all know he will end up in hell fire and will not enter paradise whatsoever.

    EDIT: ..yeah..what happened to ..ooh we hate PKK? You see these guys they say we are Muslims, but their actions show something else. Another confirmation they hate Kurds and PKK is just the excuse.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...distan-turkey/
    I have told you several times before what your problem is. You are generalizing people. There is a general "Turks" image in your eyes and you refer to it as "they/them" and unfortunately what you have is an illusionary image. Turk is the name of a race and nation and in wider extend it refers to all Turkic people from Uyghuristan to Turkey but not only Turkish people of Turkey and "we" differ a lot in ideology, philosophy and in several other aspects of life. As for Turkish people of Turkey that makes approximately %75 of Turkey's total population, there are people who are more nationalist, more racist, more Islamist, more communist, more Kemalist, more westernist, more humanist, more universalist etc. people compared to some others. This is a diverse people. So, I simply suggest you to wipe out that "Turks" image from your mind.

    I want to give a short history lecture before coming to the current problem. Turks and Kurds have always been allies in Anatolia since Turks started to migrate to the region after the battle of Manzikert. Even Kurds took the side of Turks (Seljuks) against the Byzantines in this battle. And Turks have always given the reward of this favour. Since both were Muslims. Of course some revolts occured against the rulers but this cannot be explained with nationalist motives since several Turks revolted against the Ottoman Empire through out history as well. However, the first nationallist and also Islamist motivational Kurdish rebelion against Turks occured just after the Turkish independace war in 1922. The British supported Kurdish Sheikh Said revolted against the new State to create another Kurdish Islamic state in South Eastern Anatolia. That was obviously plotted by the British. Brits have long been aware of the stateless Kurds and wanted to use them to create a satelite state in the mid of mid-east to control this oil-rich region. The revolt was harshly supressed.

    After that, I agree some racist governments culturally and some times physically oppressed Kurds. Most especially the military government after the 1980 coup oppressed Kurds a lot. But again we must see the grater map. PKK was found in 1977, before the coup. You must also knwo that Abdullah Öcalan was the leader of "ülkücüler/idealists" an extreme Turkish nationalist movement in the university years in early 70s. Öcalan's mother was Turk as he says. He disappears for a while and turns back with "PKK!". Also you must know that the 1980 coup was plotted by CIA. After the withdrawal of the British empire from the mid-east America had taken the same "mission". At first it seems contradictory for America to create a communist group like PKK but if you are a good "chess master" sometimes you must give a small pawn for the ultimate victory. All those so called Kurdish rebels, in fact terrorists ,of mid-east ,PKK, PJAK, YPG, Peshmerga etc., were created and/or are supported by America for the same target. Controlling the middle east from it's centre.

    PKK may have fought with Peshmerga because of a power conflict. They have been usually allies. Both Barzani and Talabani confesses that they had given support to PKK several times in some records. PKK are one of the worst and most cruel terrorist groups of all times. They did not target only the Turkish military but also civilian people including Turks and Kurds. They killed teachers considering them the representatives of "Turkish faicism". They killed Kurds and even their children in front of them who opposed PKK. They are suicide bombing in the middle of crowds in the cities. I am sure you are well aware of these atrocities of PKK and still say what they do can be Islamically justified. Either I don't know anything about Islam or you don't. There is not a third option. We will go on to slay these terrorists. If you consider them martyr thats your problem. And I can assure you at least half of Turkish Kurds oppose PKK and all seperatism. We can uderstand this even from the vote ratio of HDP. They had around %10 in the last elections but the total ethnic Kurdish population in Turkey is estimated around %20-22 and we cant even say all Kurds voting HDP are pro-PKK.

    I see only one option for the peace. Each side must recognize their faults. The racist Turks will give up racism and terrorist Kurds will give up terrorism. That's it.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

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    format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post


    @Simple_Person

    I do not have enough knowledge on this conflict and also many other conflicts because i am tired of hearing them (though i worry for the innocent muslim) and also because of the media which is mostly kuffar and their intention to downgrade Islam and to confuse the muslim ummah (lies & twists) So I rarely believe those news and unable to decide who's wrong ? or who's right ? except in those cases where i happened to get first hand info from the direct victims and so on . So normally I do not enter such threads.

    But I would like to remind the world that good
    Kurd Muslims must be respected and honoured for the favour Salauhuddin Ayyubi ( May Allah show his mercy and pleased with him) has done on this Ummah during the crusades by saving the blessed body of Nabi from the crusaders for which every Muslim is indebted to Hafiz Salaudeen Ayyubi (Rah alay) and his people.

    May our beloved Turkish brothers and beloved Erdogan shed a little light on this and come to a peaceful terms and settlement with Kurdish Brothers and win their sincere co operation in all matter specially Military because they are in them great fighters like Hafiz Ayyubi was.

    May Allah ar rahman unite this Ummah and save from the SHAITANS that are trying to divide and rule over this ummah.
    Uncle, we have nothing to do with Salahuddin Ayyubi as he did for the sake of Allah and because of that it is not that other Muslims should respect us. Other people who call themselves Muslims should respect us and honor us because we are Muslims nothing more. However all there is these days is hypocrisy.

    My advice is rather to spend some time educating yourself in this matter to know and be aware who you side with. As the liar will make you believe he is the honest person and the honest person will be depicted as a liar. You and you alone will answer for your behavior on the Day of Judgement. As I in other topics have shown my concern about the current political situation around the world much is like mountains are moving and much is rather going parallel in the direction of Islamic end times..as how the ahadith about end times have talked about.

    So it just could be that within our life time we would witness even the major signs of the hour. When that happens (be aware I am not saying it is going to happen but it MIGHT) one must be aware of the hypocrites. Because when promised one arrives and he shows being opposite to certain people while you rather are fond of those people ..will you side with him or will you side with those people instead?.

    I have not explained in the past why the promised one himself is also a fitna just like Dajjal. We as Muslims expect the promised one to arrive however who says you or me or whomever calls himself Muslim will in the end follow him?. Allah is tester and for sure Allah might show us somebody that goes AGAINST our expectations. Just like how the Jews were waiting for a prophet to arrive but instead Rasullah (saws) was illiterate and not from bani Isreal. What if he would be the enemy of the person you love so much..be it one's spouse or even ones children or even one's nation?. Will you side with him or your spouse or children or nation against him? This life is all about testing. That is why I do not care about nationalism as it rather will be my doom then saving me. However to really clean your heart from such things takes time ...A LOT of time. One cannot simply change within a few minutes. That is why when sun rises from the west (one of the major signs of the end times) everybody will believe but it will not benefit them anymore. This has puzzled me for some time and the conclusion so far that I have come to is indeed when somebody believes (ie becomes Muslim) you have Islam but to get imaan it needs time. However as sun rising from the west being one of the major signs and the major signs coming one after the other means dajjal will also come very quickly. In other words the test of dajjal has EVERYTHING to do with imaan as he will show miracles before your eyes. Only the one who has truly imaan will disbelieve in him and Allah knows best.

    So why am I still explaining this. I explained this because tomorrow in'sha'Allah my account will be disabled and this will be one of my last comments on this forum. So as a last piece of advice I give to anybody who has a ounce of honesty in them.
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    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Uncle, we have nothing to do with Salahuddin Ayyubi as he did for the sake of Allah and because of that it is not that other Muslims should respect us. Other people who call themselves Muslims should respect us and honor us because we are Muslims nothing more. However all there is these days is hypocrisy.

    My advice is rather to spend some time educating yourself in this matter to know and be aware who you side with. As the liar will make you believe he is the honest person and the honest person will be depicted as a liar. You and you alone will answer for your behavior on the Day of Judgement. As I in other topics have shown my concern about the current political situation around the world much is like mountains are moving and much is rather going parallel in the direction of Islamic end times..as how the ahadith about end times have talked about.

    So it just could be that within our life time we would witness even the major signs of the hour. When that happens (be aware I am not saying it is going to happen but it MIGHT) one must be aware of the hypocrites. Because when promised one arrives and he shows being opposite to certain people while you rather are fond of those people ..will you side with him or will you side with those people instead?.

    I have not explained in the past why the promised one himself is also a fitna just like Dajjal. We as Muslims expect the promised one to arrive however who says you or me or whomever calls himself Muslim will in the end follow him?. Allah is tester and for sure Allah might show us somebody that goes AGAINST our expectations. Just like how the Jews were waiting for a prophet to arrive but instead Rasullah (saws) was illiterate and not from bani Isreal. What if he would be the enemy of the person you love so much..be it one's spouse or even ones children or even one's nation?. Will you side with him or your spouse or children or nation against him? This life is all about testing. That is why I do not care about nationalism as it rather will be my doom then saving me. However to really clean your heart from such things takes time ...A LOT of time. One cannot simply change within a few minutes. That is why when sun rises from the west (one of the major signs of the end times) everybody will believe but it will not benefit them anymore. This has puzzled me for some time and the conclusion so far that I have come to is indeed when somebody believes (ie becomes Muslim) you have Islam but to get imaan it needs time. However as sun rising from the west being one of the major signs and the major signs coming one after the other means dajjal will also come very quickly. In other words the test of dajjal has EVERYTHING to do with imaan as he will show miracles before your eyes. Only the one who has truly imaan will disbelieve in him and Allah knows best.

    So why am I still explaining this. I explained this because tomorrow in'sha'Allah my account will be disabled and this will be one of my last comments on this forum. So as a last piece of advice I give to anybody who has a ounce of honesty in them.
    Dear (Son, nephew) i am pleased with your deep thoughts which will need for me some time to think or reply about them . But one fact you have highlighted its about hypocrites which none can deny who were there when Prophet was there and it will be untill the end of times as hadiths predict that too even from the scholars which hadith called as'' two faced imposters.'' Dividing the Ummah just to make their opinions dominant that will only lead to more sects which Allah had made haram. Even if they had Diff OP the Scholars MUST ADVICE NOT TO BREAK RELATIONSHIP with your Muslim brother and say salam but what happens is they even avoid to reply salam, which is fard, but instead say hi to kuffars with a smile. Naudhubillah, the peak of ignorance.

    That's why the Glorious Quran and hadith warned about not take them as gods http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...lar-Please-jzk ) and to use our eeman to distinguish between good & bad , haram or halal since the grey area will always be there AS A TEST TO HIS MUHMINS FROM ALLAH as i have posted just a few days back here
    Mostly overlooked Hadith and verses and their wisdom

    This a Muslim forum opinions of sincere Muslims like you are to be listened and discussed and when its oppressed its never a wise thing since difference of opinions will always exist in the ummah. But the Gist is we must stick together and not back bite or back stab unless untill we have uttered some matters of shirk or kuffar or great misguidance. Even mi signature below infers what I say.

    May Allah ar Rahmaan , guide us all. Ameen.
    Last edited by talibilm; 10-07-2017 at 07:41 AM.
    Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."
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    Re: Turkish-Kurdish Conflict

    format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm View Post
    Dear (Son, nephew) i am pleased with your deep thoughts which will need for me some time to think or reply about them . But one fact you have highlighted its about hypocrites which none can deny who were there when Prophet was there and it will be untill the end of times as hadiths predict that too even from the scholars which hadith called as'' two faced imposters.'' Dividing the Ummah just to make their opinions dominant that will only lead to more sects which Allah had made haram. Even if they had Diff OP the Scholars MUST ADVICE NOT TO BREAK RELATIONSHIP with your Muslim brother and say salam but what happens is they even avoid to reply salam, which is fard, but instead say hi to kuffars with a smile. Naudhubillah, the peak of ignorance.

    That's why the Glorious Quran and hadith warned about not take them as gods http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...lar-Please-jzk ) and to use our eeman to distinguish between good & bad , haram or halal since the grey area will always be there AS A TEST TO HIS MUHMINS FROM ALLAH as i have posted just a few days back here
    Mostly overlooked Hadith and verses and their wisdom

    This a Muslim forum opinions of sincere Muslims like you are to be listened and discussed and when its oppressed its never a wise thing since difference of opinions will always exist in the ummah. But the Gist is we must stick together and not back bite or back stab unless untill we have uttered some matters of shirk or kuffar or great misguidance. Even mi signature below infers what I say.

    May Allah ar Rahmaan , guide us all. Ameen.
    Ameen

    Uncle, when saying Allahu Akbar, when saying La illah ila Allah muhammad rasul Allah, but still no matter what one utters that somehow must have the effect of giving a electric shock to ones heart to wake up and listen, to wake up and be alert, but it falls upon deaf ears, it falls upon dead hearts. As everything that is regarded as input of information (seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling), but no sign of the heart reacting to it, is rather a scary thought. The case of somebody who is a non-Muslim, that we regard it as a different case.

    As regarding somebody who is a non-Muslim, there is i believe a hadith that a person will do everything that can counted to a person that is of hell fire, that when 1 evil deed is left to be counted as person destined for hell fire, but it has written that that individual is a person of paradise, he will turn around and follow the path of a righteous person and enter paradise in the end. This is the same matter with a person who does everything a truth mu'min does, that only 1 deed is left that that person is accounted as person of paradise, but if it was written that that individual is a person of hell fire, he will turn around and follow the path of a person who follows the path of hell fire.

    The case of a hypocrite is totally something different. The hypocrite utters the words of a Mu'min, but stays like this until his death. Back in the time of Rasullah(saws) many had an idea who were the hypocrites, but with everything they (hypocrites) said the sahaba measured it with Islam. These days we have lost this ability. We listen to somebody without processing if what that individual has said is indeed correct or not. We have to be careful who we take as allies. Unity is one thing indeed, however currently there is no unity to begin with.

    ======Hadith======
    The people used to ask Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."

    Source used: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/61/113
    ================

    Read the bold part. We ALHAMDULILLAH have both internet, so about gaining knowledge we have the ability without not a lot of effort compared to the old times. To me living in the west, there are two evils and i choose the lesser evil. To be surrounded by Muslims but these days many Muslims with extreme mentality or rather culture-Muslims. Or just stay away from Muslims. Be at home if one doesn't need to go outside. This of the both evils, i choose that rather. From my family to the friends i had, part being Muslims and other part not, but just liars. They lie and lie and lie, if there is a chance to rip of the government they do it. Yet saying they are Muslims. Or here in the west when hanging with Muslims, they also either are liars or drag you with them in their sin. I am not saying i am perfect and follow Islam perfectly, absolutely not. However there is no Muslim close to me, that i say he has good effect on me. So i just stay away from all of them. Make my own home in such a condition that i do not get bored.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 10-07-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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