Fashion show in Medina sparks Saudi anger on Twitter

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

I know none worship models. It was just an example for accepting lesser evil that entails bigger evil.



He said:

''allah did not deem fashion shows haram''

according to him Allah allows fashion show. He swt didn't deem it haram. (astaghfirullah)

Being it halal must be mentioned either in Quran or hadith.

Do you agree to his claim..?

I agree with the first part (He thinks its halal).
I disagree that in order for anything to be halal it has to be mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah.
Based on what i know, like i said, the bases of all things is that it is halal. Only a specific number of things are made haram in the Quran and Sunnah. and Allah knows best ...

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

He said:

''allah did not deem fashion shows haram''

Now, tell me again. Do you still agree to this statement..?

He is attributing fashion show being halal to Allah swt.

It's a confirmation...!

Im not really sure what your trying to get at here ... But if your asking whether he is correct in saying that ''Allah did not deem fashion shows haram''. Then id have to say he is correct, because (based on my knowledge) there is nowhere in the Quran or Sunnah that mentions fashion shows let alone it being halal or haram. So in saying that Allah did not deem it haram is not a wrong statement at all ... Orrrr am i missing something??? Man your making me doubt everthing now ... even my existence

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Deen is what is in Quran and hadith. Can you prove it from these sources.? No, never. Then why do you claim which isn't proven..?

Isnt there a thing in Islam tho if u theres no direct evidence against it then its halal or smthing?

no compulsion in religion fits well here. someone using religion to deem fashion shows haram, when the religiin says no such thing. may be the advice of a fallible human, but allah knows best.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO

Im not really sure what your trying to get at here ... But if your asking whether he is correct in saying that ''Allah did not deem fashion shows haram''. Then id have to say he is correct, because (based on my knowledge) there is nowhere in the Quran or Sunnah that mentions fashion shows let alone it being halal or haram. So in saying that Allah did not deem it haram is not a wrong statement at all ... Orrrr am i missing something??? Man your making me doubt everthing now ... even my existence

Interesting...!

Don't you know that proof is to be given by claimant, not by defendant.

It's all related to ruling of shariah and concerning rulings evidence should be sought in adilla e shariah, and in this age, if doesn't lie therein, be driven in their light,

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Interesting...!

Don't you know that proof is to be given by claimant, not by defendant.

It's all related to ruling of shariah and concerning rulings evidence should be sought in adilla e shariah, and in this age, if doesn't lie therein, be driven in their light,

Its all a matter of prespective brother, i could also say that your the one who is claiming its haram, so your the one who should provide proof of its prohibition. Non the less, here is proof of what i said earily about everything being halal in principle untill proven otherwise. I see a lot of people here using IslamQA as a source of reference, so here is one from their site that proves what i said ... https://islamqa.info/en/231261

format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO

Its all a matter of prespective brother, i could also say that your the one who is claiming its haram, so your the one who should provide proof of its prohibition. Non the less, here is proof of what i said earily about everything being halal in principle untill proven otherwise. I see a lot of people here using IslamQA as a source of reference, so here is one from their site that proves what i said ... https://islamqa.info/en/231261

if two people summoned in the court. A claims that B has borrowed certain amount and now he isn't returning the money. B in defence says that A is lying.

Who will be asked to show the evidence first...?


This is not acceptable at all. If this logic that something isn't mentioned in adilla e shariah is halal, will open the gate of deviation,

if someone asks you to show the evidence that celebrating the birth of prophet s.a.w is prohibited...?

Since it's not mentioned in scriptures, so by your logic is halal...?

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

if two people summoned in the court. A claims that B has borrowed certain amount and now he isn't returning the money. B in defence says that A is lying.

Who will be asked to show the evidence first...?


This is not acceptable at all. If this logic that something isn't mentioned in adilla e shariah is halal, will open the gate of deviation,

if someone asks you to show the evidence that celebrating the birth of prophet s.a.w is prohibited...?

Since it's not mentioned in scriptures, so by your logic is halal...?

First, A needs to provide proof that money was borrowed in the first place, Then if that is established, B needs to provide proof that the money was given back to A.
In our case, you need to establish that everything is forbidden except that which is mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah in the first place. So that i may be able to proceed in researching for a daleen of allowing it.

By your logic, EVERYTHING in this would can be considered haram that isnt strictly mentioned in Quran or Sunnah. Like i mentioned before, Computers, mobiles, Satellites, Power Stations, Cars, Airplanes, Cranes, Concrete buildings, Currencies other than gold or silver coins, mattresses .... EVERYTHING becomes haram brother. Is this the deen that you follow?

"Since it's not mentioned in scriptures, so by your logic is halal...?" Not quite ... If there isnt anything mentioned about it, or if it does not go against any teachings of islam then yes it should be Halal.
Example: Porn is not mentioned in Quran or Sunnah. However, we know its haram because it goes against the command of Allah that says do not look at other people's awrah. On the other hand Building Space ships are also not mentioned in Quran or Sunnah but is there anything that goes against it in Quran or Sunnah? no .... similarly, is there anythign that goes against fashion shows that are modest and follow islamic teachings in that it doesnt allow free mixing or exposure of awrah?

You assumption that Mawlid is forbidden just because its not mentioned in Sunnah. That is wrong. It is claimed to be forbidden on the bases that its bidah, and that is an innovated Eid other than what the Prophet has told us we were given (Small and Big Eid). That is why its prohibited, not because it wasnt mentioned. And allah knows best.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Think for a moment.......! Would Prophet s.a.w like to see sahabiyat walking on the ramp at musical beats...? (astaghfirullah)

Can you please give me evidence for a fashion show being haram if it was in a halal way? If it was mens only or womens only then i think its fine. Albeit without the dizzying music and everything. If we're going to use your logic then quite a lot of things wouldnt be allowed.

** meant to say fashion and expressing yourself isnt haram if done in right way

Then first, fashion show is permitted in shariah is to be proven, which can't be.

Do you think all these inventions mentioned above using them contradict any Islamic ruling..?

Of Mawlud: Try again.

Of fashion show:

Its contrary to the basic Islamic ethics of modesty and shyness which is accepted as half of iman.

Where the models and all
expose their beauty and attractive clothes which entails arrogance, pride and show off. Can you expect that a girl wearing hijab doing catwalk shyly on the ramp..?

Don't say there is NO music and NO man

Islam wants women not to walk immodestly which may show their hidden beauty

''Women should not stamp the ground in walking, so as to reveal their decoration (by their jingle)'' (24:31).

“So one of the two (daughters) came to him walking modestly...” (Quran28:25)

it evinces the innate haya which is displayed before men and women equally.

Models walking on ramp will take care of it...?

“All beautification and make-up which is meant to please and entertain other (including men and women) than the husband is sheer ignorance. This tendency, springs from the woman’s own heart. She herself can only search her heart to detect any hidden evil desire. If it is there, it has to be eradicated according to the following Divine Commandment,

” and remain in your houses, and do not go about displaying your fineries as a woman used to do in the days of ignorance.” (33:33)

whereas models and others are doing this show off before strangers against the teachings of Quran- hadith.

And those people who are enjoying this 'show off of beauty' are equally responsible for this act.

Most probably its impermissiblity is also subjected to application of ''man tashabbaha bi qawmihi fa huwa minhum''

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Don't say there is NO music and NO man

That. That is your problem ... You cant get past that. Why cant i say that? A fashion show is not meant to have music nor is it meant to have men there too. The purpose of a FASHION SHOW is to show case different types of fashion styles. Whether there is music, men, catwlks or whatever ... thats not the purpose of a fashion show, only extras that makes the fashion show more appealing. And it is those extra things that are considered haram, not the actual fashion show itself. There is a difference.

For example talking and saying word can also include backbiting and cursing. doesnt make talking haram, only the act of backbiting or cursing.

Mawlid. Educate me then ... cause what i have mentioned is the reason why i thought it was haram. So if you know of any evidences that states another reason then please feel free to share.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

No man, no photography, no videography, no media, no catwalk, no music, no ramp... Then what the models are doing..? Selling the product directly to women or sitting on the stage or any higher platform advertising the new designed dress...? Why do you call it a fashion show then...?

Because fashion is to do with clothes. And a fashion show advertises clothes. Therefore its still a fashion show albeit one without music.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

No man, no photography, no videography, no media, no catwalk, no music, no ramp... Then what the models are doing..? Selling the product directly to women or sitting on the stage or any higher platform advertising the new designed dress...? Why do you call it a fashion show then...?

Men looking at men wearing stylish clothes: not haram
Women looking at women wearing stylish clothes: not haram
Men looking at women wearing stylish cloths or viceversa: haram (shouldnt happen in islamic fashion shows)

Issue of photography is disputed among scholars
Videography from what i know is halal by ijma'
Media, not haram.
catwalks ... depends on the person. if it sexually arouses him then he cant look at men doing that let alone women.
Music, i will go with you and say its haram therefore it shouldnt play. But doesnt mean that fashion shows can exist without music.

The majority of fashion shows in the west actually show case women showing less skin than people in the streets ... so imagine how little skin will be shown in islamic fashion shows?
Besides if its haram to attend fashion shows because of showing off skin and what not, then imagine how haram it is to walk the streets in the west? Where people sometime actually walk b*tt N*k*d in the streets.

Go on google and search images of islamic fashion shows and just see how most of the models cover all of their body (with the exception of face and hands). Look at the audience were most of the imagine u would find will have female only audiences.
So in a sense, you can make fashion shows islamic if you really have the imagination and the will power to turn something that is haram into a halal thing without breaking any of the rulings of islam.

If the fashion show ur link talks about is unislam then sure it should be there at all. but if it is islamic then ... Still not the best place to do it but if there is nothing haram about it then id let it pass but wouldnt recommend it. And Allah knows best.