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    anatolian's Avatar
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    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

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    Erdoğan’s AKP lost the grand municipalities of İstanbul and Ankara yesterday to the Kemalist CHP which also had the support of nationalist İYİ Party as per the mathematical results of the local elections after 16 years of continous governance. These two cities were governed by Islamist mayors and parties since 1994. This is a complete failure for Erdoğan and AKP in Turkey and gives some hints for the next general elections. People gave a lesson to him and the party after long years of corruption.
    Last edited by anatolian; 04-01-2019 at 03:15 PM.
    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    yay! you know what they say "whosoever wins istanbul, wins the country." judging by the minds of these simpleton neo ottoman islamists, who often are old people or who barely have an education, seeing someone "seize power in istanbul" from erdogan, who they see as "caliph" is a MAJOR defeat. it's a sign of the end of the ottoman period all over again.

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    anadolu ajans (anadolu agency) even tried cheating by shutting down the results at the exact time ekrem imamoglu was ahead, and i waited hours, but YSK (which normally cheats, too (YSK means board of judges, basically) even stepped in. how unusual......times are changing.....it seems.

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Erdoğan’s AKP lost the grand municipalities of İstanbul and Ankara yesterday to the Kemalist CHP which also had the support of nationalist İYİ Party as per the mathematical results of the local elections after 16 years of continous governance. These two cities were governed by Islamist mayors and parties since 1994. This is a complete failure for Erdoğan and AKP in Turkey and gives some hints for the next general elections. People gave a lesson to him and the party after long years of corruption.
    His party's vote share has remained the same however, and with exception of Diyarbekir, HDP's votes are plunging fast. AKP-MHP alliance secured 52% of the votes, so the equation re.ains the same.

    Also in secular provinces, AKP's vote share has modestly risen, AKP got 38% in Izmir, that in itself is amazing progress from the 30% Erdogan got.
    And also over 40% in Edirne.

    The Istanbul result will eventually swing back. What Erdogan has to Target is why Adana, Artvin, Ardahan, Hatay are voting for CHP. Especially Hatay, why do they vote for CHP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    yay! you know what they say "whosoever wins istanbul, wins the country." judging by the minds of these simpleton neo ottoman islamists, who often are old people or who barely have an education, seeing someone "seize power in istanbul" from erdogan, who they see as "caliph" is a MAJOR defeat. it's a sign of the end of the ottoman period all over again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    anadolu ajans (anadolu agency) even tried cheating by shutting down the results at the exact time ekrem imamoglu was ahead, and i waited hours, but YSK (which normally cheats, too (YSK means board of judges, basically) even stepped in. how unusual......times are changing.....it seems.
    I doubt a difference of 0.4% or 25k votes is "end of the Ottomans".

    Erdogan himself had won only 50% in the Presidential election in Istanbul. Yildirim won 48.8%, it's not a massive drop. The core voters remained.

    Rather it's because the Kemalists CHP-IYI-HDP have worked together that allowed CHP to go from 30% to 49%.

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    His party's vote share has remained the same however, and with exception of Diyarbekir, HDP's votes are plunging fast. AKP-MHP alliance secured 52% of the votes, so the equation re.ains the same.

    Also in secular provinces, AKP's vote share has modestly risen, AKP got 38% in Izmir, that in itself is amazing progress from the 30% Erdogan got.
    And also over 40% in Edirne.

    The Istanbul result will eventually swing back. What Erdogan has to Target is why Adana, Artvin, Ardahan, Hatay are voting for CHP. Especially Hatay, why do they vote for CHP?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I doubt a difference of 0.4% or 25k votes is "end of the Ottomans".

    Erdogan himself had won only 50% in the Presidential election in Istanbul. Yildirim won 48.8%, it's not a massive drop. The core voters remained.

    Rather it's because the Kemalists CHP-IYI-HDP have worked together that allowed CHP to go from 30% to 49%.
    once chp shows how great they are at governing and erdogan loses major elections and his misconduct is exposed, the next local election erdogan either will be in jail, out of politics for life, or chp will win at least far more.

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    once chp shows how great they are at governing and erdogan loses major elections and his misconduct is exposed, the next local election erdogan either will be in jail, out of politics for life, or chp will win at least far more.
    Great at governing, well they kept Turkey a s***hole for 70 years with zero progress.

    Besides since the change of the system, the President, not the parliament or mayors hold the executive power.

    And if you really think CHP will keep Hatay, Adana and their newly won provinces in Black Sea region, you would be wrong they can't keep those next election.
    Last edited by CuriousonTruth; 04-01-2019 at 08:57 PM.

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    Great at governing, well they kept Turkey a shithole for 70 years with zero progress.

    Besides since the change of the system, the President, not the parliament or mayors hold the executive power.

    And if you really think CHP will keep Hatay, Adana and their newly won provinces in Black Sea region, you would be wrong they can't keep those next election.
    "70 years with no progress" they only won one election in the past 70 years after the one party period, and that was under bulent ecevit in the 1970s. the people keeping turkey a ______ are islamists. who keep getting overthrown by kemalists.

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    "70 years with no progress" they only won one election in the past 70 years after the one party period, and that was under bulent ecevit in the 1970s. the people keeping turkey a ______ are islamists. who keep getting overthrown by kemalists.
    Yeah funny thing that your party needs military force to stay in power. And if not that, Western backing and organization.

    I don't know about CHP, but both IYI party and HDP would not exist without tacit backing off the West.

    Adnan Menderes' party wasn't "islamist". Neither was Turgut Ocal. Erbakan's party was the first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What has ended is the political career of Binali Yildirim and Ozhaseki and the bright politicians who somehow lost Hatay, Adana, and the Black Sea municipalities.

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    Yeah funny thing that your party needs military force to stay in power. And if not that, Western backing and organization.

    I don't know about CHP, but both IYI party and HDP would not exist without tacit backing off the West.

    Adnan Menderes' party wasn't "islamist". Neither was Turgut Ocal. Erbakan's party was the first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What has ended is the political career of Binali Yildirim and Ozhaseki and the bright politicians who somehow lost Hatay, Adana, and the Black Sea municipalities.
    yeah, same old "blame the west, blame the west" another thing. reason cumhur ittifak's vote is not under 50 percent and akp won so many votes is because military in southeast forced kurds to vote akp. EDIT: and yes, adnan menderes was an islamist. i dont know much about turgut ozal, but he sure got corrupt, and he was right wing, so something can certainly be said about right wing socially conservative politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    Yeah funny thing that your party needs military force to stay in power. And if not that, Western backing and organization.

    I don't know about CHP, but both IYI party and HDP would not exist without tacit backing off the West.

    Adnan Menderes' party wasn't "islamist". Neither was Turgut Ocal. Erbakan's party was the first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What has ended is the political career of Binali Yildirim and Ozhaseki and the bright politicians who somehow lost Hatay, Adana, and the Black Sea municipalities.
    funny thing is that your party requires electoral fraud and media manipulation and foreign intervention of pakistanis and arabs and somali fanboys OUTSIDE of turkey and aktrolls and bribery (major haram) and mafia harassment and mass jailing and false flag coups (punishable by death in sharia given many died and people died in prison under false accusations), and funding terrorists (punishable by death in sharia), and theft ((punishable by amputation of a hand in sharia), and letting go of child molestors to appease the religious hypocrites to stay in power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    Yeah funny thing that your party needs military force to stay in power. And if not that, Western backing and organization.

    I don't know about CHP, but both IYI party and HDP would not exist without tacit backing off the West.

    Adnan Menderes' party wasn't "islamist". Neither was Turgut Ocal. Erbakan's party was the first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What has ended is the political career of Binali Yildirim and Ozhaseki and the bright politicians who somehow lost Hatay, Adana, and the Black Sea municipalities.
    another thing, under erdogan violence against women has exploded as has teenage pregnancies and teenage drug and alcohol use. how would you like it if that was your child? i have learned my lesson. never vote for an islamist EVER even if they are the lesser of two evils. "the moment you add a drop of oil to a cup of water the child learns that water kills" (a quote i made up)
    Last edited by SintoDinto; 04-01-2019 at 10:11 PM.

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    urkahnkhan's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    yeah, same old "blame the west, blame the west" another thing. reason cumhur ittifak's vote is not under 50 percent and akp won so many votes is because military in southeast forced kurds to vote akp. EDIT: and yes, adnan menderes was an islamist. i dont know much about turgut ozal, but he sure got corrupt, and he was right wing, so something can certainly be said about right wing socially conservative politicians.

    - - - Updated - - -

    funny thing is that your party requires electoral fraud and media manipulation and foreign intervention of pakistanis and arabs and somali fanboys OUTSIDE of turkey and aktrolls and bribery (major haram) and mafia harassment and mass jailing and false flag coups (punishable by death in sharia given many died and people died in prison under false accusations), and funding terrorists (punishable by death in sharia), and theft ((punishable by amputation of a hand in sharia), and letting go of child molestors to appease the religious hypocrites to stay in power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    another thing, under erdogan violence against women has exploded as has teenage pregnancies and teenage drug and alcohol use. how would you like it if that was your child? i have learned my lesson. never vote for an islamist EVER even if they are the lesser of two evils. "the moment you add a drop of oil to a cup of water the child learns that water kills" (a quote i made up)
    Are you insane or something like that. Why would any sane muslim want to see a kemalist victory anywhere in the world. This is baffling to me.

    Do happen to belong to one of these mushrikeen sects within islam or what? because something is wrong here
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    anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    His party's vote share has remained the same however, and with exception of Diyarbekir, HDP's votes are plunging fast. AKP-MHP alliance secured 52% of the votes, so the equation re.ains the same.

    Also in secular provinces, AKP's vote share has modestly risen, AKP got 38% in Izmir, that in itself is amazing progress from the 30% Erdogan got.
    And also over 40% in Edirne.

    The Istanbul result will eventually swing back. What Erdogan has to Target is why Adana, Artvin, Ardahan, Hatay are voting for CHP. Especially Hatay, why do they vote for CHP?
    I dont know the details for Hatay but it might be bc of the same reason why İstanbul and Ankara did. People got strated to be bored of unethical governers with the mask of Islam. They are bored of Islam’s usage for their political gain and then doing all the dirty jobs. They are bored of Erdoğan’s hate speaches that separates people in the country. He was calling CHP and İYİ Party aupporters terrorists. Erdoğan and his company are killing Islam for Islamism and the reaction is increasing. Istanbul mayorship is regarded as an indication for presidential elections. AKP had around %50 in 2015 but they had %40 last year’s general elections. They will turn to %30 in the next with this ratio if they dont correct theirselves, and that seems unlikely atm.
    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    I dont know the details for Hatay but it might be bc of the same reason why İstanbul and Ankara did. People got strated to be bored of unethical governers with the mask of Islam. They are bored of Islam’s usage for their political gain and then doing all the dirty jobs. They are bored of Erdoğan’s hate speaches that separates people in the country. He was calling CHP and İYİ Party aupporters terrorists. Erdoğan and his company are killing Islam for Islamism and the reaction is increasing. Istanbul mayorship is regarded as an indication for presidential elections. AKP had around %50 in 2015 but they had %40 last year’s general elections. They will turn to %30 in the next with this ratio if they dont correct theirselves, and that seems unlikely atm.
    Maybe that is your reasoning. From the analysis I have read, the main concern is economy and inflation, and the inflation is induced by the West. However the bust of the construction/building industry is down to bad management of the AKP.

    And I don't understand why you are talking as if their voter base diminished, they didnt. AKP have always had around or below 50% in Istanbul and Ankara. The 3% and 1.5% swings aren't that significant and fall under margin of error. What is significant is CHP-IYI-HDP have successfully made a well worked coalition and combined their votes together.

    But this in turn will probably cost HDP dearly in the next general election. I can't see them passing the 10% threshold, which means a clean sweep for the AKP in Southeast.

    As for ideology, the ideological AKP have remained as solid as ever. Konya, Erzincan, Trabzon, etc are still under their firm control.

    On the other hand Thrace and Izmir are still under CHP, although Edirne is slowly shifting to AKP.

    And I would also add that it maybe failure of the AKP to field competent candidates. Some of the places where they lost like Hatay, Adana, etc Erdogan would have clean sweeped with a 15 percent gap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    I dont know the details for Hatay but it might be bc of the same reason why İstanbul and Ankara did. People got strated to be bored of unethical governers with the mask of Islam. They are bored of Islam’s usage for their political gain and then doing all the dirty jobs. They are bored of Erdoğan’s hate speaches that separates people in the country. He was calling CHP and İYİ Party aupporters terrorists. Erdoğan and his company are killing Islam for Islamism and the reaction is increasing. Istanbul mayorship is regarded as an indication for presidential elections. AKP had around %50 in 2015 but they had %40 last year’s general elections. They will turn to %30 in the next with this ratio if they dont correct theirselves, and that seems unlikely atm.
    It is wrong for AKP to use conservative politics but it's not wrong for CHP to use Kemalism?

    Majority of CHP voters don't vote for CHP because they believe CHP will actually move the country forward. The vote for CHP because they hate the ideology of the AKP.

    CHP can put a goat as a candidate in Izmir, and the goat will win no matter what AKP does.

    So the divisive, identarian politics is by Kemalists and the elite, privileged white Turks who have sidelined Muslim Turks for 70 years and kept Turkey a third rate country for decades with the help of military.

    CHP is lucky they didn't get banned for repeatedly violating democracy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by urkahnkhan View Post
    Are you insane or something like that. Why would any sane muslim want to see a kemalist victory anywhere in the world. This is baffling to me.

    Do happen to belong to one of these mushrikeen sects within islam or what? because something is wrong here
    He is a gulenist, Erdogan recently destroyed his sect not only in Turkey but around the world. So basically to him, Erdogan is the devil.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    yeah, same old "blame the west, blame the west" another thing. reason cumhur ittifak's vote is not under 50 percent and akp won so many votes is because military in southeast forced kurds to vote akp. EDIT: and yes, adnan menderes was an islamist. i dont know much about turgut ozal, but he sure got corrupt, and he was right wing, so something can certainly be said about right wing socially conservative politicians.

    - - - Updated - - -

    funny thing is that your party requires electoral fraud and media manipulation and foreign intervention of pakistanis and arabs and somali fanboys OUTSIDE of turkey and aktrolls and bribery (major haram) and mafia harassment and mass jailing and false flag coups (punishable by death in sharia given many died and people died in prison under false accusations), and funding terrorists (punishable by death in sharia), and theft ((punishable by amputation of a hand in sharia), and letting go of child molestors to appease the religious hypocrites to stay in power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    another thing, under erdogan violence against women has exploded as has teenage pregnancies and teenage drug and alcohol use. how would you like it if that was your child? i have learned my lesson. never vote for an islamist EVER even if they are the lesser of two evils. "the moment you add a drop of oil to a cup of water the child learns that water kills" (a quote i made up)
    Adnan Menderes' was centre-left, he campaigned for religious freedom for Muslims and restored the Azan that's it. The airport in Izmir is named after him, so out of many things he's definitely not some religious politician.

    You mean those Somalis and Pakistanis somehow manage to vote for AKP? They should be so lucky, they are stuck with a former Playboy as prime minister.

    Force Kurds to vote what? If that was the case they would have gotten Diyarbekir, not smaller provinces . AKP have been trying to win in Diyarbekir for a long time, have campaigned very hard, but separatists sentiments are still strong in that province. Mus, Van, Mardin, etc will eventually come around.

    Anyway under 10% HDP can't remain in parliament, so AKP will clean sweep South east next election anyway. It will be over for the HDP unless they enter into the coalition with CHP. And if they do that IYI party will lose most of it's nationalist votes.
    Last edited by CuriousonTruth; 04-02-2019 at 06:00 AM.

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    alfaqir's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    It is an embarassing defeat for the AKP symbolically, no doubt, but if you look at the absolute numbers of voters nationwide, there is hardly any serious weakening of the AKP, most likely bad mobilization and/or bad candidates caused it (also in presidential and parliamentary elections foreign resident Turks can also vote, that would be also an extra for AKP). The "Reis" is doing a lot of mistakes anyway, both internally and in foreign politics, so I can't say that he doesn't deserve it. Also he should have worked more on "building"/ dividing his opposition too. Anti-Gülenism was basicly all about a purging of his own camp ultimately... though breaking the army influence was good an necessary, but i dont see enough steps for the general de-Kemalization of the society.
    And his political power concentration is a risky gambling (imo it was a mistake to switch to the presidental system in the first place...), now there is a lot of power in his hands, but once he loses (and all political eras finish once), that very same concentrated power can end up in the hands of others, worser ones too.

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by alfaqir View Post
    It is an embarassing defeat for the AKP symbolically, no doubt, but if you look at the absolute numbers of voters nationwide, there is hardly any serious weakening of the AKP, most likely bad mobilization and/or bad candidates caused it (also in presidential and parliamentary elections foreign resident Turks can also vote, that would be also an extra for AKP). The "Reis" is doing a lot of mistakes anyway, both internally and in foreign politics, so I can't say that he doesn't deserve it. Also he should have worked more on "building"/ dividing his opposition too. Anti-Gülenism was basicly all about a purging of his own camp ultimately... though breaking the army influence was good an necessary, but i dont see enough steps for the general de-Kemalization of the society.
    And his political power concentration is a risky gambling (imo it was a mistake to switch to the presidental system in the first place...), now there is a lot of power in his hands, but once he loses (and all political eras finish once), that very same concentrated power can end up in the hands of others, worser ones too.
    In any other country, a party winning 52% of votes, regardless of the result in the capital would be seen as a major victory. The fact that a loss by 2% after 15 years winning those provinces shows the absolute dominance of Erdogan in elections.

    Apparently Gulenists were the ones who secretly arranged the Gezi terror incident, so after that it was a point of no return. The de-Kemalization stopped when they allied with MHP, rather it seems AKP has sought to change what the actual character of Kemal is, into 'just a reformer', blaming all of Kemal's anti-islam policies on Ismet Inonu.

    I think he has already divided the opposition, remember MHP was initially against AKP. He basically vassalized the MHP to his own end, while MHP's anti_Erdogan camp broke out, weaking MHP further and putting it into his own hands. And it looks HDP's run in politics is going to end in the near future.

    Maybe if he was a bit 'dirtier' and covertly supported the other leftist party like DSP or the communist party to take CHP's votes, that would have worked better.

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    anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “De-Kemalization” of the Turkish society? Thats simply a mission impossible for a human being. Love and respect for Atatürk is much more than an ideology in Turkey.
    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Thinking and opinions evolve, would be enough to just stop the state-support for the Kemalist cult, lifting the special legal protection of him, full open research and publication of the archives penetrating to the first decades of the republic, removing the images, statues and quotes from him in public buildings, stopping school indoctrination like Atatürk ilkeleri classes etc, basicly just place him on the same position as any other statesman, having free academical research and evaluation around him, and not a personality cult. One generation later thinking would change...
    Also how much he is loved is hardly truly measurable as even questioning him and having an open critical discussion is still largely a taboo, but i suspect a lot of people in the Turkish society at least have a critical view of him, not only deeply religious people but also among the various minorities, and all together that is not a small part of the country. It is not even healthy for modern liberal democrat secularist Turks too that the only ideological point of reference they can have is him and being bound by that period of early republic (an authoritarian, ultranationalist and quasy-fascist era).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    In any other country, a party winning 52% of votes, regardless of the result in the capital would be seen as a major victory. The fact that a loss by 2% after 15 years winning those provinces shows the absolute dominance of Erdogan in elections.

    Apparently Gulenists were the ones who secretly arranged the Gezi terror incident, so after that it was a point of no return. The de-Kemalization stopped when they allied with MHP, rather it seems AKP has sought to change what the actual character of Kemal is, into 'just a reformer', blaming all of Kemal's anti-islam policies on Ismet Inonu.

    I think he has already divided the opposition, remember MHP was initially against AKP. He basically vassalized the MHP to his own end, while MHP's anti_Erdogan camp broke out, weaking MHP further and putting it into his own hands. And it looks HDP's run in politics is going to end in the near future.

    Maybe if he was a bit 'dirtier' and covertly supported the other leftist party like DSP or the communist party to take CHP's votes, that would have worked better.
    But it is also questionable was it worth to trade away potential Kurdish support for MHP... as far as i remember the AKP used to be more popular among them in the first years of their government...
    Last edited by alfaqir; 04-03-2019 at 03:46 PM.
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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by alfaqir View Post
    But it is also questionable was it worth to trade away potential Kurdish support for MHP... as far as i remember the AKP used to be more popular among them in the first years of their government...
    This was one of the major points of disagreements between Ahmet Davutoglu and Erdogan, Davutoglu leaned more towards alliance with Kurds which is why he was so adamant on peace with the PKK. Whereas Erdogan saw the electoral value of using PKK threat for votes instead.

    AKP still gets a lot of votes in South-East, their vote share has increased this election and with HDP sacrificing their own interest for the sake of CHP, I expect the party to die out. And guess what, MHP won a municipality in a Kurdish majority municipality mostly from AKP votes.

    And look no other party has done as much for Kurds as AKP, if the Kurds in Diyarbekir still give 60% of their votes to HDP, then there is something wrong with the people if they are voting on basis of ethnic interests only.

    While that is the case, AKP has increased its vote share steadily in Izmir, Edirne, Antalya, Yalova, etc all hardcore Kemalist stronghold.

    Also one thing no one mentioned is how hilariously AKP-MHP lost provinces like Kars because their votes were divided, leaving HDP with just 29% votes to win. The coordination between the parties is horrible.

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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by alfaqir View Post
    Thinking and opinions evolve, would be enough to just stop the state-support for the Kemalist cult, lifting the special legal protection of him, full open research and publication of the archives penetrating to the first decades of the republic, removing the images, statues and quotes from him in public buildings, stopping school indoctrination like Atatürk ilkeleri classes etc, basicly just place him on the same position as any other statesman, having free academical research and evaluation around him, and not a personality cult. One generation later thinking would change...
    Also how much he is loved is hardly truly measurable as even questioning him and having an open critical discussion is still largely a taboo, but i suspect a lot of people in the Turkish society at least have a critical view of him, not only deeply religious people but also among the various minorities, and all together that is not a small part of the country. It is not even healthy for modern liberal democrat secularist Turks too that the only ideological point of reference they can have is him and being bound by that period of early republic (an authoritarian, ultranationalist and quasy-fascist era).

    - - - Updated - - -



    But it is also questionable was it worth to trade away potential Kurdish support for MHP... as far as i remember the AKP used to be more popular among them in the first years of their government...
    These have always been in the to do list of every genious ambitious Islamist in Turkey, you can be sure of that. Erdoğan even tried to do more for more than 10 years.. He even forbade the official celebration of national holidays out of Ankara. He tried to erase the references of Atatürk in the school books. This is where he came. He gave up and started to blame eveeything on İsmet İnönü. He now even praises Atatürk from time to time. Now he started to lose against CHP which is only a small portion of Kemalism and Kemalism is only a small portion of Turkish people’s love of Atatürk. If you think moving his statues will make people forget him you are so naive. If more researches are made about him and if more people read about , I assure you, people will love and respect him even more. Most of Turkish people’s info about him comes from school books which dont go into detail so much. Your clasification of his era is a stereotype. What makes it authoritarian, ultranationalist and quasy-fascist? Even if so he was, what makes it wrong? He had to be “authoritarian” and “ultranationalist” anyway after establishing a nation who were betrayed and fooled a lot.

    But..even if eveything you mentioned is done one day still more than half of this nation will go on to remember and respect him becuase of his service to this nation in the wars that saved us from dissolution. Inorder to understand this you must spent enough time within us..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    Maybe that is your reasoning. From the analysis I have read, the main concern is economy and inflation, and the inflation is induced by the West. However the bust of the construction/building industry is down to bad management of the AKP.

    And I don't understand why you are talking as if their voter base diminished, they didnt. AKP have always had around or below 50% in Istanbul and Ankara. The 3% and 1.5% swings aren't that significant and fall under margin of error. What is significant is CHP-IYI-HDP have successfully made a well worked coalition and combined their votes together.

    But this in turn will probably cost HDP dearly in the next general election. I can't see them passing the 10% threshold, which means a clean sweep for the AKP in Southeast.

    As for ideology, the ideological AKP have remained as solid as ever. Konya, Erzincan, Trabzon, etc are still under their firm control.

    On the other hand Thrace and Izmir are still under CHP, although Edirne is slowly shifting to AKP.

    And I would also add that it maybe failure of the AKP to field competent candidates. Some of the places where they lost like Hatay, Adana, etc Erdogan would have clean sweeped with a 15 percent gap.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It is wrong for AKP to use conservative politics but it's not wrong for CHP to use Kemalism?

    Majority of CHP voters don't vote for CHP because they believe CHP will actually move the country forward. The vote for CHP because they hate the ideology of the AKP.

    CHP can put a goat as a candidate in Izmir, and the goat will win no matter what AKP does.

    So the divisive, identarian politics is by Kemalists and the elite, privileged white Turks who have sidelined Muslim Turks for 70 years and kept Turkey a third rate country for decades with the help of military.

    CHP is lucky they didn't get banned for repeatedly violating democracy.

    - - - Updated - - -


    He is a gulenist, Erdogan recently destroyed his sect not only in Turkey but around the world. So basically to him, Erdogan is the devil.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Adnan Menderes' was centre-left, he campaigned for religious freedom for Muslims and restored the Azan that's it. The airport in Izmir is named after him, so out of many things he's definitely not some religious politician.

    You mean those Somalis and Pakistanis somehow manage to vote for AKP? They should be so lucky, they are stuck with a former Playboy as prime minister.

    Force Kurds to vote what? If that was the case they would have gotten Diyarbekir, not smaller provinces . AKP have been trying to win in Diyarbekir for a long time, have campaigned very hard, but separatists sentiments are still strong in that province. Mus, Van, Mardin, etc will eventually come around.

    Anyway under 10% HDP can't remain in parliament, so AKP will clean sweep South east next election anyway. It will be over for the HDP unless they enter into the coalition with CHP. And if they do that IYI party will lose most of it's nationalist votes.
    What you dont know is the importance of the change of rule. Numbers or ratios are not much important. This symbolizes the fall of Erdoğan and AKP. İstanbul and Ankara represent entire country. Now İstanbul and Ankara will be governed by CHP for five years after 25 years and this will either positively or negatively change people’s opinion of them and if it becomes positive it will reflect to the next general election. This is why AKP are still speculating and manuplating over the results even after 4 days..
    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Salaam

    But..even if eveything you mentioned is done one day still more than half of this nation will go on to remember and respect him becuase of his service to this nation in the wars that saved us from dissolution. Inorder to understand this you must spent enough time within us..
    Yes but at what cost? Regardless truth will out eventually.

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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    These have always been in the to do list of every genious ambitious Islamist in Turkey, you can be sure of that. Erdoğan even tried to do more for more than 10 years.. He even forbade the official celebration of national holidays out of Ankara. He tried to erase the references of Atatürk in the school books. This is where he came. He gave up and started to blame eveeything on İsmet İnönü. He now even praises Atatürk from time to time. Now he started to lose against CHP which is only a small portion of Kemalism and Kemalism is only a small portion of Turkish people’s love of Atatürk. If you think moving his statues will make people forget him you are so naive. If more researches are made about him and if more people read about , I assure you, people will love and respect him even more. Most of Turkish people’s info about him comes from school books which dont go into detail so much. Your clasification of his era is a stereotype. What makes it authoritarian, ultranationalist and quasy-fascist? Even if so he was, what makes it wrong? He had to be “authoritarian” and “ultranationalist” anyway after establishing a nation who were betrayed and fooled a lot.

    But..even if eveything you mentioned is done one day still more than half of this nation will go on to remember and respect him becuase of his service to this nation in the wars that saved us from dissolution. Inorder to understand this you must spent enough time within us..

    - - - Updated - - -



    What you dont know is the importance of the change of rule. Numbers or ratios are not much important. This symbolizes the fall of Erdoğan and AKP. İstanbul and Ankara represent entire country. Now İstanbul and Ankara will be governed by CHP for five years after 25 years and this will either positively or negatively change people’s opinion of them and if it becomes positive it will reflect to the next general election. This is why AKP are still speculating and manuplating over the results even after 4 days..
    And that praise didn't go too well with his own voter base. Most AKP pages I follow criticized Erdogan for involving Ataturk in Manzikert event. Even in his page many people were asking, "What is the relevance of Ataturk with Manzikert?"

    For sure Kemal is nearly a demigod in the Aegean provinces and Thracian provinces. But there are still a significant number of Turks, usually from Central Anatolia who don't seem to like Kemal as much.

    As one Turk from konya I spoke to put it so well, "Izmir and Konya are like two different countries".

    This is just the municipality election. Dear God in no other country anyone gives a damn about municipal election as much as people seem to do with Turkey.

    Symbolized the fall is a very dramatic statement. They even won most of the votes in the actual election last year.

    If we have to go into details, 24 out of 39 districts in Istanbul will be governed by AKP. They actually won most of the districts in Istanbul and Ankara, although lost overall.
    Last edited by CuriousonTruth; 04-04-2019 at 09:21 PM.

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    Re: AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    Quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam



    Yes but at what cost? Regardless truth will out eventually.
    Wa Salam

    What can remembering and respecting Atatürk cost? You can answer this with two options. With and without following Kemalism
    AKP lost İstanbul and Ankara

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi


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