Iran arrests controversial cleric and followers

**snakelegs** · 10-09-2006

i wonder how wide spread this viewpoint is in the muslim world

"the ayatollah has said "we believe people have grown tired of political religion and they want to return to traditional religion."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061008...ligionpolitics

Iran arrests controversial cleric and followers

TEHRAN (AFP) - Iran has arrested a controversial cleric and some of his followers who advocate separating religion and politics, a taboo in Islamic Iran, after clashes with police, the student ISNA agency said.

Hundreds of supporters of Ayatollah Mohammad Kazemeini Borujerdi had gathered on Saturday around his house in Tehran to protest the arrest of a number of the Shiite cleric's followers and restrictions imposed on him, press reports said.

"The ones behind Saturday's unrest were arrested. All including, Mr Borujerdi, have been handed over to judiciary officials," said a security official in Tehran governor's office, identified only by his last name, Roshan.

Roshan said the police had previously sought to contain these "sectarian elements" but yesterday "they were carrying Molotov cocktails, knives, swords and clubs to confront the police."

"They even (for a time) took members of the force hostage and threw acid on policemen and vandalized public property," he said, adding "calm has been restored" in the crowded neighborhood in downtown Tehran.

A report in reformist Hambastegi daily said the Special Court for Clergy had recently tried to arrest Borujerdi but faced by resistance by his supporters.

Questioning a pillar of the Islamic republic, the ayatollah has said "we believe people have grown tired of political religion and they want to return to traditional religion.

"The objective of my followers and me is in defending traditional religion," the semi-official ILNA news agency quoted the ayatollah as saying.

But the deputy head of Tehran police, Commander Nasser Shabani, accused the ayatollah of claiming to be the representative of the Shiites' "hidden" twelfth Imam, Mahdi, and misinterpreting religion.

"A person has gathered some naive people around to pledge donations and have their wishes come true, which is a sheer lie and distortion of religion," he told ILNA.

The protesters were reportedly shouting slogans such as "religious freedom is our right" and "freedom is our undeniable right", and carried banners that said "we are ready to be martyred to defend traditional religion".

His aims breach a taboo in Islamic Iran -- a theocracy in which the all-powerful supreme leader is a cleric chosen by a top Shiite clerical assembly.

A large number of key positions in Iran are taken by clerics, such as the head of the judiciary and members of the non-elected watchdog body, the Guardians Council, which vets all legislation and candidates for public office.

**Keltoi** · 10-09-2006

This is one of the reasons I will never support a theocracy of any kind.

**therebbe** · 10-09-2006

The protesters were reportedly shouting slogans such as "religious freedom is our right" and "freedom is our undeniable right", and carried banners that said "we are ready to be martyred to defend traditional religion".

Could get ugly.

**Muezzin** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by therebbe

Could get ugly.

Or could just be freedom of speech in action.

Protesters don't necessarily intend to carry out every one of their slogans.

**Zulkiflim** · 10-10-2006

Salaam,

Islam has laws for everything,even politics.

To break it into 2 is not Islamic.

Consider,the life of the Prophet,he was the leader of the muslim world and met with leaders to form treatise and judgement.

To deny this is terrible.

The moderate muslim attack again.

**Joe98** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by Zulkiflim

Islam has laws for everything,even politics.

To break it into 2 is not Islamic.

Then do not live in a place that separates the 2!

**Muezzin** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by Joe98

Then do not live in a place that separates the 2!

How does that contribute to the discussion at hand?

**wilberhum** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by Keltoi

This is one of the reasons I will never support a theocracy of any kind.

This and hundreds of other reasons is why I will never support a theocracy of any kind.

**therebbe** · 10-10-2006

The moderate muslim attack again.

I don't think you understand. This guy is very observant in Islam. He just wishes to seperate Political Islam which ends up becoming corrupt, and greed for powerful leaders from religious Islam.

**Hawa** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by therebbe

I don't think you understand. This guy is very observant in Islam. He just wishes to seperate Political Islam which ends up becoming corrupt, and greed for powerful leaders from religious Islam.

Greed is synonymous with most leaders be they religious or not, I would much rather live in an Islamic state (inshallah one day..) than to live in a "democracy"

**therebbe** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by Hawa

Greed is synonymous with most leaders be they religious or not, I would much rather live in an Islamic state (inshallah one day..) than to live in a "democracy"

Until the "Islamic State" decides to not do what you or the majority want. Then you will want to have a leader you choose.

**Hawa** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by therebbe

Until the "Islamic State" decides to not do what you or the majority want. Then you will want to have a leader you choose.

the Islamic state doesnt "do" what it's people want, rather it carries out the will of Allah. The laws of the Almighty are nothing short of perfect, laws that are very practical in this day and age.

**wilberhum** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by Hawa

the Islamic state doesnt "do" what it's people want, rather it carries out the will of Allah. The laws of the Almighty are nothing short of perfect, laws that are very practical in this day and age.

But it will be ruled by men. There is no question about there imperfections.

Your perfect state will be anything but.

**therebbe** · 10-10-2006

the Islamic state doesnt "do" what it's people want, rather it carries out the will of Allah.

I wasn't aware there was a single country that 100% of its people shared the exact same belief in G-d. There isn't even a 100% Islamic unanimous its seems with different factions who argue over interpretation.

**InToTheRain** · 10-10-2006

Originally Posted by wilberhum

But it will be ruled by men. There is no question about there imperfections.

The law is perfect as it is by Allah(SWT) but the people who implement in muslim countries are unfortunatley corrupt.

BUT there can never be true justice in a secular state because the laws are not Just even though the people may be. Its fundementally flawed, how can you expect people with all their imperfections to make a system which is Just?

I would love an Islamic state with a Khalif which adheres to the teachings of Islam.

**therebbe** · 10-10-2006

BUT there can never be true justice in a secular state because the laws are not Just even though the people may be.

They are not justice to your moral standards, but they may be justice to others. Just like Islamic law may not be justice to me...

**InToTheRain** · 10-11-2006

Originally Posted by therebbe

They are not justice to your moral standards, but they may be justice to others. Just like Islamic law may not be justice to me...

you only see it as justice so long as it benefits you, just like the people who make up your laws and then it changes according to the whims of the next person. Why should a man with imperfections comparable to mine be able to decide whats right and wrong for me?
Bottom line is only God has the knowledge to take into consideration every possible detail and make a system perfectly Just. Just like when a machine breaks, the manufacture knows how to best deal with it, the manufacturer provides manuals etc to deal with it. Similiarly our lord who created us knows how to best deal with problems we face. YES it can be Harsh, but bieng harsh doesn't make it unjust.

Choosing to obey the laws of our creator who is perfect and omnipotent VS a man with similiar limits to mine? I choose God.
You may choose differently, whatever rocks your boat I guess.

**therebbe** · 10-11-2006

you only see it as justice so long as it benefits you, just like the people who make up your laws and then it changes according to the whims of the next person.

Yet does Muslim justice benefit a non-Muslim? In your eyes yes... in my eyes no. I believe Jewish justice will benefit all, but I am practical enough to not say all should live under it in any country.

Bottom line is only God has the knowledge to take into consideration every possible detail and make a system perfectly Just.

You haven't accepted that a good portion of the world does not share your belief in G-d.

**Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн** · 10-11-2006

Gods law is meant to be justice for all. Humans are not flawless. Those who want a true Islamic state will create one like it used to be. Its one of the reasons why the Islamic Civilization flourished and became global. Nowadays no one is too safe in any country. Everyone in the higher authority, as ive seen, are corrupt to their people. They arent even completely following the Qur'an and Sunnah.

**Ulysses** · 10-11-2006

Originally Posted by Hawa

the Islamic state doesnt "do" what it's people want, rather it carries out the will of Allah. The laws of the Almighty are nothing short of perfect, laws that are very practical in this day and age.

I am sorry to point it out, but you have misused the term "Islamic State" in your sentence above. You imply that there is ONE Islamic State, when in fact there are many. Sunni dominated Ba'athist Iraq was an Islamic State. ****** ruled Saudi Arabia is an Islami state. Shia governed Iran is an Islamic State, and Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Egypt are all, also Islamic states, each with their own particular flavor and personal interpretations of the will of the Almighty. Which nationalism do you propose is THE state of Allah?