Indian Muslims need gov’t help – Report

some Muslims do tend to be backwards.but there are some who face prejudice and discrimination.
I am surprised the news was delivered by rediff.

Patna, Nov 27 (IANS) Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar Monday said he was opposed to reservation for Muslims on religious basis but favoured quotas on the base of their social and educational backwardness.

"I am against reservation on the basis of religion," Nitish Kumar told reporters here.

"My stand is clear - provide reservation on social and educational backwardness, not on religious grounds."

Asked about his government's stand, he said this was his personal opinion and not of his party - the Janata Dal-United.

The chief minister said he favoured inclusion of Muslim and Christian Dalits in the Scheduled Castes category

The recognition of caste and touch ability is the biggest blot on Hindu religion. Dalit have converted to islam and other religion to avoid the mistreatment of the so called hindu . But it seems even after spending several generation in new religions people on both sides of "Dalit line" have not forgotten the Hindu Past.
This is evident from various incidents like separate catholic churches for low caste Christians in Kerala, demand for reservations by Neo-Buddha or an as Unislamic a term as "Dalit Muslims". If "Dalit Muslims" term exists then we need to realize that untouchability and castism is not just a Hindu problem but an Indian curse across all religions and conversion is no solution for it.
People are any way so much divided across so many lines and globally its Muslims that are victims of such divisions like Shia and Sunni. Daily incidents in Iraq are big evidence of it, had Middle east countries be united only in the name of Islam rather than divided as Anti and Pro America I don't think Bush led western forces could dare to touch Saddam or Afghanistan.
Don't further divide Indian Muslims into Dalit Muslims and Forward Muslims, it has done no good to any society.

format_quote Originally Posted by AFDAL

The recognition of caste and touch ability is the biggest blot on Hindu religion. Dalit have converted to islam and other religion to avoid the mistreatment of the so called hindu . But it seems even after spending several generation in new religions people on both sides of "Dalit line" have not forgotten the Hindu Past.
This is evident from various incidents like separate catholic churches for low caste Christians in Kerala, demand for reservations by Neo-Buddha or an as Unislamic a term as "Dalit Muslims". If "Dalit Muslims" term exists then we need to realize that untouchability and castism is not just a Hindu problem but an Indian curse across all religions and conversion is no solution for it.
People are any way so much divided across so many lines and globally its Muslims that are victims of such divisions like Shia and Sunni. Daily incidents in Iraq are big evidence of it, had Middle east countries be united only in the name of Islam rather than divided as Anti and Pro America I don't think Bush led western forces could dare to touch Saddam or Afghanistan.
Don't further divide Indian Muslims into Dalit Muslims and Forward Muslims, it has done no good to any society.

A rock was going to fall on Afghanistan regardless of an "unity", but perhaps if the theoretical situation you described had been place, Al-Qaeda wouldn't have been in Afghanistan in the first place.

NEW DELHI, Nov 30: Concluding that Muslims are a deprived lot, the Rajinder Sachar Committee has favoured reservation for the most backward in the community, creation of an Equal Opportunity Commission (EOC) and a nomination procedure for their political involvement at the grass roots.
The Committee, which went into the social, economic and educational status of the Muslims, has come out with a series of findings, including the point that the percentage of Muslims in Government employment was a mere 4.9 per cent of the total 88,44,669 employees, indicating that all was not well for the 150 million population in the country.
The number of Muslims in security agencies was 3.2 per cent — 60,517 out of the total of 18,79,134 in CRPF, CISF, BSF, SSB and ‘other agencies’ — it said without specifying whether armed forces were included or not. The Muslims’ headcount in the armed forces sought by the panel had triggered a controversy in Parliament sometime back.
The 404-page report which made comprehensive recommendations for ‘setting the community on the road to progress’ was tabled in the Lok Sabha by Minorities Affairs Minister A R Antulay, who said that the Government expected to start its implementation by February. The committee was constituted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in March last year.
Favouring reservation for a group of Muslims with traditional occupations as that of Scheduled Castes, the report has come at a time when the quota issue is again in the forefront ahead of the Assembly elections in some States, including Uttar Pradesh. Even Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has talked of ‘fair share’ in government jobs to Muslims.
Noting that Muslims in the country have three groups in terms of their social structure- ashrafs, ajlafs and arzals, the report said arzals, whose traditional occupation is similar to that of SCs, may be designated as Most Backward Community and provided reservation.
This particular group needs multifarious measures, including reservation, as it remains ‘cumulatively oppressed’, it said, adding the other two groups require different types of affirmative action.
Antulay later told reporters that the report is the ‘best thing’ that has happened to the community.
Observing that a ‘very small’ proportion of Government and public sector employees are Muslims, concentrated in lower level positions, the panel recommended that it may be desirable to have minority persons on interview panels.
This can be done on the lines of SC, ST participation in panels, it said, adding that Muslims constituted the second largest religious group in the country and the largest religious minority.
Besides, it said, India’s Muslim population is among the largest in the world and exceeded only by Indonesia’s and close to the Muslim population of Pakistan and Bangladesh.
In an interesting finding, it said Muslim population growth has slowed down as fertility has declined substantially, clearly showing that the community is well into demographic transition.
The Committee recommended constitution of ‘Equal Opportunity Commission’ to look into grievances of deprived groups. It said an example of such a policy tool is the UK Race Relations Act 1976.
Such a measure, while providing a redressal mechanism for different types of discrimination, will give further reassurance to minorities that any unfair action against them will invite the vigilance of the law, it said.
Noting that Muslim participation in electoral bodies is known to be small, the report said of the 543 Lok Sabha members, only 33 are Muslims.
It said a carefully conceived ‘nomination procedure’ can be worked out to increase the participation of minorities at grass roots.
Mechanism should be put in place so that a large number of minorities are nominated to increase their participation in public bodies.
“A more rational delimitation procedure that does not reserve constituencies with high minority population shares for SCs will improve the opportunity for minorities, especially Muslims, to contest and get elected to Parliament and State Assemblies,” it said.
Referring to educational opportunities for Muslims, the Committee recommended mechanisms where madrassas can be linked with a Higher Secondary school board so that their students wanting to shift to regular or mainstream education can do so.
It recommended recognition of degrees from madrassas for eligibility in competitive examinations such as civil services, banks, defence services and other such examinations.
It suggested that a process of evaluating the content of the school textbooks needed to be initiated and institutionalised. PTI

Thousands of low-caste Hindus have attacked police, vehicles and shops in Mumbai to protest against the desecration of a statue of their leader and author of India's democratic constitution.

Violence also flared in several towns across the western state of Maharashtra on Thursday.




Protesters said they were angry that a statue of Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar, a low-caste Hindu who wrote India's constitution that prohibits caste discrimination, had been damaged on Wednesday in Uttar Pradesh.

The Associated Press said three people were killed and 60 injured in the riots.






The rioters burned buses and threw stones at traffic, injuring dozens of people.

"We want police to arrest those who broke Baba Saheb's [Ambedkar's] statue. Otherwise, we will burn Maharashtra," a man shouted before being dragged away by police in Mumbai, India's industrial hub.

Ambedkar was born in Maharashtra and Mumbai is the capital.

Arup Pattnaik, Mumbai police joint commissioner, said: "There are reports of some sporadic incidents. However, things are under control."

But huge groups carrying banners were seen closing shops and clashing with police in several areas of the city.

Witnesses said police used batons and fired tear gas to disperse people in Mumbai's Worli, Bandra and Chembur neighbourhoods. Police denied the reports but said that several people had been arrested. Curfews were imposed in some towns.

Low-caste Hindus or Dalits, the name for those called "untouchables" in the past, make up about 16 per cent of India's 1.1 billion population, and are at the bottom of the 3,000-year-old Hindu caste hierarchy.

Though caste-based discrimination is banned, Dalits are still often beaten or killed if they use a well or worship at a temple reserved for upper castes.

Sachar report tabled in Lok Sabha
NEW DELHI, Nov 30 – Concluding that Muslims are a deprived lot, the Rajinder Sachar committee has favoured reservation for the most backward in the community, creation of an Equal Opportunity Commission (EOC) and a nomination procedure for their political involvement at the grassroot level. The Committee, which went into the social, economic and educational status of the Muslims, has come out with a series of findings including the point that the percentage of Muslims in government employment was a mere 4.9 per cent of the total 88,44,669 employees, indicating that all was not well for the 150 million population in the country.

The number of Muslims in security agencies was 3.2 per cent – 60,517 out of the total of 18,79,134 in CRPF, CISF, BSF, SSB and ‘other agencies’, it said without specifying whether armed forces were included or not. The Muslims’ headcount in the armed forces sought by the panel had triggered a controversy in Parliament sometime back.

The 404-page report which made comprehensive recommendations for “setting the community on the road to progress” was tabled in the Lok Sabha by Minorities Affairs Minister AR Antulay, who said that the government expected to start its implementation by February. The committee was constituted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in March last year.

Favouring reservation for a group of Muslims with traditional occupations as that of Scheduled Castes, the report has come at a time when the quota issue is again in the forefront ahead of the Assembly elections in some States,

including Uttar Pradesh. Even Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has talked of ‘fair share’ in government jobs to Muslims.

Noting that Muslims in the country have three groups in terms of their social structure – ashrafs, ajlafs and arzals, the report said arzals, whose traditional occupation is similar to that of SCs, may be designated as Most Backward Community and provided reservation.

This particular group needs multifarious measures, including reservation, as it remains “cumulatively oppressed”, it said, adding, the other two groups require different types of affirmative action.

Antulay later told reporters that the report is the “best thing” that has happened to the community.

Observing that a “very small” proportion of government and public sector employees are Muslims, concentrated in lower level positions, the panel recommended that it may be desirable to have minority persons on interview panels.

This can be done on the lines of SC,ST participation in panels, it said adding that Muslims constituted the second largest religious group in the country and the largest religious minority.

Besides, it said, India’s Muslim population is among the largest in the world and exceeded only by Indonesia’s and close to the Muslim populations of Pakistan and Bangladesh.

In an interesting finding, it said Muslim population growth has slowed down as fertility has declined substantially, clearly showing that the community is well into demographic transition.

Noting that Muslim participation in electoral bodies is known to be small, the report said of the 543 Lok Sabha members, only 33 are Muslims.

Referring to educational opportunities for Muslims, the Committee recommended mechanisms where madrassas can be linked with a Higher Secondary school board so that their students wanting to shift to regular or mainstream education can do so.

It recommended recognition of degrees from madrassas for eligibility in competitive examinations such as civil services, banks, defence services and other such examinations.

It suggested that a process of evaluating the content of the school textbooks needed to be initiated and institutionalised.–PTI

Befooling the Muslims
There is something terribly wrong with political India’s solution strategy to the country’s numerous problems. Look at the whole UPA business of setting a committee to assess the status of Muslims in the country and how this committee has now come up with irrational formulae to lessen the characteristic Indian Muslim woe. The report of the Justice Rajinder Sachar Committee, constituted by the Prime Minister for the above purpose, was tabled in Parliament on Thursday, and with it also emerged the Sachar theory of Muslim uplift — a theory that is not only ridiculous but also retrogressive, and hence a theory that will take Indian Muslims nowhere. We have had occasion in the past to talk about some of the findings of the Sachar Committee as a metropolitan newspaper carried the report (the report was leaked to the media!) in a series of illuminating stories as to how Indian Muslims have been at the bottom of the development ladder despite the rush of ‘secular’ parties to every Muslim pocket. Therefore, we shall refrain from repeating what we said earlier. What of course we are now saying is that Justice Sachar might have come up with correct facts and figures, but his is a blunderous model — and against national interest — when it comes to what he has recommended.
The Sachar Committee report has talked of a process of ‘‘mainstreaming’’ madrassa education so that madrassa-educated Muslim youths may also have ‘‘a choice and an incentive’’ to join the job market. ‘‘Madrassas should not be looked upon as alternatives to the regular school, but as a compliment’’, the report says. The report has a suggestion: that madrassa certificates and degrees should be treated at par with other recognized certificates and degrees so that madrassa students may easily move across to mainstream institutes of higher learning. What a way to unsettle education! Does Justice Sachar know what he is saying and what are the implications thereof? Does he realize that one cannot ‘‘mainstream’’ the numerous madrassas in the country because by virtue of their religious character — no doubt, exclusivist — they cannot be treated at par with mainstream education which means secular, modern education? You cannot ‘‘mainstream’’ madrassas; at best, you can modernize them, that too only when the mullahs would modernize themselves, which is unlikely though not impossible. And even if you have accomplished the onerous task of modernizing the numerous madrassas, you will still have a solid reason to say that they are not part of mainstream education because they would still remain essentially religious in their attitude. Else, where will the clerics go? They will surely not move around as modern, secular school and college teachers. Or is that what Justice Sachar would have the clerics do? Not really.
The Sachar theory of madrassa education has it that madrassa ‘graduates’ must find — as easily as anyone — a place in the job market, and that madrassa certificates must not be disdained when compared with mainstream educational certificates. The least we would say about this theory is that it will not only pollute education but also hijack it. Pollute, because madrassa attitude cannot jell with mainstream attitude which is modern and secular. Hijack, because education is too serious an affair for the likes of Justice Sachar to dangerously indulge in, thus undoing the very principle of education and its purpose — that of not producing misfits. As of now, madrassa students are out of sync with time by virtue of their very grooming. And this will end only when madrassas stop preaching religion, which cannot be. So? Whither Sachar? The Sachar theory is the ultimate in befooling Indian Muslims by urging them to stay where they are so that ‘secular’ India is assured of the poor Muslim’s vote.
Now comes the other aspect of the Sachar theory, equally dangerous, and this time divisive too. At a time when the need of the hour is a holistic approach to Muslim backwardness and isolation if any as also an approach that will not undermine the tenet of Islam (whose virtue is a casteless society), the Sachar Committee wants the Muslim society to be trifurcated as Ashrafs, Ajlafs and Arzals. The report says that since the Arzals are ‘‘at the bottom of the social hierarchy’’ and ‘‘worst-off’’, they ‘‘need to be handled separately’’ and ‘‘it would be appropriate if they were absorbed into the SC list, or at least in a separate category, Most Backward Classes (MBCs), carved out of the OBCs’’. As if not satisfied at the division of the Hindu society along casteist lines, the latest being in the wake of Union HRD Minister Arjun Singh’s quota gimmickry in higher education, Justice Sachar has meticulously worked on a system to even divide the monolithic Muslim society along similar lines by talking of classes within a class and then reservations for them. One hopes educated and liberal Muslims would see through it all: that here is yet another pseudo-secular engineering that is trying to effect a rift in the monolithic Muslim social structure held intact so far. And all this just because in the name of secularism, the country has the unique privilege of having to live with political parties — the veteran being the ruling Congress — that are not concerned about Muslim uplift in the real sense, but remain too worried a lot when it comes to wooing illiterate, poor Muslims. Is this the end-result of what the ‘secular’ Congress and its allies have done to the Muslims of the country by ruling at the Centre for long 54 years?

The Sachar Report and All That
MV Kamath
One supposes that Justice Rajendra Sachar is well up in Indian history. If he is not, the Home Ministry must provide him with some textbooks on history which, under the UPA dispensation, cannot lie, even if they do not tell the whole truth. What would they say that is unchallengeable even by the RSS? One is that India was ruled by Muslim rulers almost continuously in most parts of the country for over 800 years. One would imagine that in these 800-plus years, Muslims would have become highly education-conscious and had a clear advantage over their Hindu brethren. Eight-hundred years is a pretty long time to remain backward.
True, in 1857, the British took over. Education came to be imparted in English. There was no law barring Muslims from climbing the new English-oriented ladder. But pride came in their way. Even prior to 1857 — and we have it on the word of a former Union Minister, Arif Mohammad Khan — in 1835, when Muslims in Calcutta came to know that the government intended to start English teaching in all schools, they submitted an application signed by 8,000 maulvis to stop it, on the grounds that learning in English would undermine Islam and might lead to large-scale conversion to Christianity. Almost 50 years later, in 1882, when the British were deeply entrenched in India, Syed Ahmad Khan appeared before the Education Commission of the Central Legislative Council with voluminous evidence to show the almost negligible presence of Muslims among the graduates of Calcutta University. The facts presented are shocking even now.
No Muslim name appeared in the list of postgraduate students in law. Among 705 students appearing for bachelors’ and 235 licentiate examinations, Muslims numbered eight and five respectively. There was not a single Muslim graduate either in engineering and medicine. In MA courses there were five Muslims out of 326, and in BA there were 30 out of 1,343. Poverty was not the cause. Muslims in Calcutta were relatively quite well off then. Contrast this with what Hindus decided. When, in 1824, the government planned to start a Sanskrit College in Calcutta, Hindu citizens, under the leadership of Raja Rammohan Roy demanded that instead of a Sanskrit College, they preferred English colleges. They surely must have rightly guessed which way the world was progressing. Today England wants Indian teachers to teach English to English children. Poor Macaulay must be turning in his grave at the turn of events. But Muslims continue to live in another world.
Came 1947, a good 90 years after the first war of Independence. And what happened then? The Muslim elite and Muslim entrepreneurship ran away to Pakistan taking away with them such assets as they could command, leaving their poor Muslim brethren in the lurch to fend for themselves. The maulvis were still in the seats of power as even now they are. Yes, the large majority of Muslims who stayed back were poor. But million of Hindus, too, were in the same class. But they knew that in order to survive they had to send their children to school whatever the cost. Among the Muslims the old mentality continued to persist. Let this be clear: there is no deliberate or conscious discrimination against Muslims in any schools. The fault lies in their leadership. They have no change the mindset. The Sachar Committee report says that only about 4.2 per cent of Muslim children attend madrassas. The percentage is irrelevant. As Arif Mohammad Khan said it plainly, Muslims first must free themselves from their clergy. The Sachar Committee report says that the situation of Muslims is particularly grave in West Bengal, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Assam.
West Bengal is under Communist rule — the same traitorous Communists who, it may be remembered, supported the creation of Pakistan. Uttar Pradesh is all but run by Mulayam Singh who claims undying friendship with Muslims. What is he doing for them? At loss as to how to survive, many Muslims have apparently taken to crime. In Maharashtra, Muslims account for 10.6 per cent of the general population, yet they comprise 32.4 per cent of prison inmates. For those incarcerated on terms of less than a year, the figure rises to 42 per cent. In Gujarat where Muslims account for 9.06 of the population, those in jail account for 25 per cent of the jail population. Karnataka has a general population of 12.23 per cent Muslims, but the jail population is 17.5 per cent. There are presently 102,652 Muslims in jail and the majority are in for ordinary crimes, not terrorism. Apparently with less opportunities for honest work, many take to crime as a vocation for sheer survival.
Many short-cuts have been suggested for the improvement of the lot of the Muslims such as the creation of an Equal Opportunity Commission, modelled on the UK Race Relations Act, 1976. The point is made that it is “imperative that if the minorities have certain perceptions of being aggrieved, all efforts should be made by the State to find a mechanism by which these complaints could be attended to expeditiously”. Fair enough. Nobody would grudge if Muslims received help of all kinds, like setting up schools in areas of Muslim concentration, providing free education especially for girls and encouraging diverse talent to grow through financial assistance. But talent cannot be implanted; it is self-generative. Can it be that a large percentage of Muslims were converts from lower castes that never had an educational tradition and whose special talents were directed to handicraft, weaving, pottery, metal works and the like, and whose ancestral occupations have been nullified by technology? That might explain why it is so difficult to draw them into a new educational structure, so totally foreign to them, considering that Muslim students make only 1.3 per cent among IIM students and 1.7 per cent in IITs? Has globalization of economy hurt Muslims more than anything else, without anybody being aware of it, much less being in a position to help? But the issue now is not why they have fallen into despair but what can be done to resuscitate them, not as Muslims, but as unconscious victims of globalization and modernization.
That they have to free themselves of mullahs is self-evident. That they have to be taught new trades to be reliant goes without saying. Grameen Banks may be of some help, especially for their womenfolk — and this must be pursued. The womenfolk need to get out of their shells, but that is a matter of years. Their mindset has to change from Islamic orthodoxy to contemporary competitiveness. The roots of poverty lie not just in an outdated social system but in an unawareness of current possibilities that beckon the bold. To be competitive, one has to come out of one’s ghettoes and join the mainstream. The state can — and should — help the Muslim poor but a reciprocity in attitudes and behaviour among Muslims will strengthen the process of economic rehabilitation. Is that too much to ask? What Islam needs is modernism, not ****** extremism.

These is an editorial article from a stanch Anti-Muslim from Indian in as Indian toilet news paper.

The Sachar Report and All That
MV Kamath
One supposes that Justice Rajendra Sachar is well up in Indian history. If he is not, the Home Ministry must provide him with some textbooks on history which, under the UPA dispensation, cannot lie, even if they do not tell the whole truth. What would they say that is unchallengeable even by the RSS? One is that India was ruled by Muslim rulers almost continuously in most parts of the country for over 800 years. One would imagine that in these 800-plus years, Muslims would have become highly education-conscious and had a clear advantage over their Hindu brethren. Eight-hundred years is a pretty long time to remain backward.
True, in 1857, the British took over. Education came to be imparted in English. There was no law barring Muslims from climbing the new English-oriented ladder. But pride came in their way. Even prior to 1857 — and we have it on the word of a former Union Minister, Arif Mohammad Khan — in 1835, when Muslims in Calcutta came to know that the government intended to start English teaching in all schools, they submitted an application signed by 8,000 maulvis to stop it, on the grounds that learning in English would undermine Islam and might lead to large-scale conversion to Christianity. Almost 50 years later, in 1882, when the British were deeply entrenched in India, Syed Ahmad Khan appeared before the Education Commission of the Central Legislative Council with voluminous evidence to show the almost negligible presence of Muslims among the graduates of Calcutta University. The facts presented are shocking even now.
No Muslim name appeared in the list of postgraduate students in law. Among 705 students appearing for bachelors’ and 235 licentiate examinations, Muslims numbered eight and five respectively. There was not a single Muslim graduate either in engineering and medicine. In MA courses there were five Muslims out of 326, and in BA there were 30 out of 1,343. Poverty was not the cause. Muslims in Calcutta were relatively quite well off then. Contrast this with what Hindus decided. When, in 1824, the government planned to start a Sanskrit College in Calcutta, Hindu citizens, under the leadership of Raja Rammohan Roy demanded that instead of a Sanskrit College, they preferred English colleges. They surely must have rightly guessed which way the world was progressing. Today England wants Indian teachers to teach English to English children. Poor Macaulay must be turning in his grave at the turn of events. But Muslims continue to live in another world.
Came 1947, a good 90 years after the first war of Independence. And what happened then? The Muslim elite and Muslim entrepreneurship ran away to Pakistan taking away with them such assets as they could command, leaving their poor Muslim brethren in the lurch to fend for themselves. The maulvis were still in the seats of power as even now they are. Yes, the large majority of Muslims who stayed back were poor. But million of Hindus, too, were in the same class. But they knew that in order to survive they had to send their children to school whatever the cost. Among the Muslims the old mentality continued to persist. Let this be clear: there is no deliberate or conscious discrimination against Muslims in any schools. The fault lies in their leadership. They have no change the mindset. The Sachar Committee report says that only about 4.2 per cent of Muslim children attend madrassas. The percentage is irrelevant. As Arif Mohammad Khan said it plainly, Muslims first must free themselves from their clergy. The Sachar Committee report says that the situation of Muslims is particularly grave in West Bengal, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Assam.
West Bengal is under Communist rule — the same traitorous Communists who, it may be remembered, supported the creation of Pakistan. Uttar Pradesh is all but run by Mulayam Singh who claims undying friendship with Muslims. What is he doing for them? At loss as to how to survive, many Muslims have apparently taken to crime. In Maharashtra, Muslims account for 10.6 per cent of the general population, yet they comprise 32.4 per cent of prison inmates. For those incarcerated on terms of less than a year, the figure rises to 42 per cent. In Gujarat where Muslims account for 9.06 of the population, those in jail account for 25 per cent of the jail population. Karnataka has a general population of 12.23 per cent Muslims, but the jail population is 17.5 per cent. There are presently 102,652 Muslims in jail and the majority are in for ordinary crimes, not terrorism. Apparently with less opportunities for honest work, many take to crime as a vocation for sheer survival.
Many short-cuts have been suggested for the improvement of the lot of the Muslims such as the creation of an Equal Opportunity Commission, modelled on the UK Race Relations Act, 1976. The point is made that it is “imperative that if the minorities have certain perceptions of being aggrieved, all efforts should be made by the State to find a mechanism by which these complaints could be attended to expeditiously”. Fair enough. Nobody would grudge if Muslims received help of all kinds, like setting up schools in areas of Muslim concentration, providing free education especially for girls and encouraging diverse talent to grow through financial assistance. But talent cannot be implanted; it is self-generative. Can it be that a large percentage of Muslims were converts from lower castes that never had an educational tradition and whose special talents were directed to handicraft, weaving, pottery, metal works and the like, and whose ancestral occupations have been nullified by technology? That might explain why it is so difficult to draw them into a new educational structure, so totally foreign to them, considering that Muslim students make only 1.3 per cent among IIM students and 1.7 per cent in IITs? Has globalization of economy hurt Muslims more than anything else, without anybody being aware of it, much less being in a position to help? But the issue now is not why they have fallen into despair but what can be done to resuscitate them, not as Muslims, but as unconscious victims of globalization and modernization.
That they have to free themselves of mullahs is self-evident. That they have to be taught new trades to be reliant goes without saying. Grameen Banks may be of some help, especially for their womenfolk — and this must be pursued. The womenfolk need to get out of their shells, but that is a matter of years. Their mindset has to change from Islamic orthodoxy to contemporary competitiveness. The roots of poverty lie not just in an outdated social system but in an unawareness of current possibilities that beckon the bold. To be competitive, one has to come out of one’s ghettoes and join the mainstream. The state can — and should — help the Muslim poor but a reciprocity in attitudes and behaviour among Muslims will strengthen the process of economic rehabilitation. Is that too much to ask? What Islam needs is modernism, not ****** extremism.

Brother AFDAL comments

These is an editorial article from a stanch Anti-Muslim from Indian in as Indian toilet news paper.

Salam brothr AFDAL,

Although I dont find enough time these days to respond to posts, inspite of enough temptation and provocation. But I cant resist take few minutes and ask U few questions.

1. What u find as falsehood in above editorial U have quoted?

2. What makes u think that its only government which is responsible of backwardness of muslims? our erstwhile rulers for more than 800 years?

3.How much U feel that mullahs and maulvis and muslims leadership has contributed towards backwardness of muslims?

4. Are u aware that muslims are ppls who inspite of repeated warnings and requests made by government regarding immunization of their children against polio, have delibrately chosen not to listen even at the cost of alarming increase of polio cases among muslims? Are u aware that muslim society is full of maulvis and mullahs who have no other job but to keep spreading rumors about kuffar government of India that they are out destroying muslims? Plz read the following article and give ur illuminated views.

Since the past several years, India has been exporting a dubious product without earning any foreign exchange and losing a lot of goodwill internationally as well. India is among the countries, which have the highest number of polio cases and it is suspected that Indians travelling abroad are spreading the disease. The investigation of strains of the poliovirus and their genetic sequencing, carried out in the African countries of Congo and Mozambique, has revealed that they are of Indian origin. Buren Bayar, the UNICEF Polio Coordinator for Uttar Pradesh, has made this clear. About 280 cases have been reported in the country this year, with Uttar Pradesh leading the list with 254. The state had reported only 29 cases last year and the country itself had just 64. It may be possible that people going for Hajj pilgrimage from the country could have transmitted the poliovirus to people of other countries.

As is the case in India, when things don't work, the matter gets politicised with elements of truth and rumour floating around and making facts difficult, if not impossible to glean. Dig through the mountain of data on polio, and you notice that the countries on the list of most affected countries are Nigeria (by far the worst), Yemen, Indonesia, Somalia, India and Pakistan. These are all Islamic countries, with the exception of India. In India, almost all the polio cases have come from Uttar Pradesh and Bihar's slums, which are again Muslim dominated areas.

I have known a few health-care workers in India who have worked (and still work) incredibly hard over the years fighting polio. Their job is tough and relentless, walking from house to house in slums, banging on doors and begging, pleading, cajoling or scolding parents to inoculate their kids against polio. Often, they feel they are talking to impregnable walls that respond only by hurling abuse, or with stony silence. The minds of too many people (especially Muslims) in these slums have been brainwashed completely, often by religious leaders.

It's surprising that so many people believe that polio drops are not vaccines, but drops given (especially) to girls to make them sterile and incapable of having children. Other equally powerful rumour that floats around is that these pills make boys impotent, meek, and servile. Other rumours insist that this is a western ploy to destroy Islam. A lot of these rumours come from local religious leaders, who insist that this is a targeted government campaign to wipe out Muslims. Why can't these people learn from other Muslim countries like Egypt or even the extremely poor Bangladesh, where very promising strides have been taken towards polio eradication?

What do they get out of it? Isn't it reassuring enough when Amitabh Bachchan and Mohammad Kaif come on ads urging people to take this vaccine? What will it take to eradicate this disease, when it's not resources or availability of health-care workers or vaccines that is limiting? And while we ponder these things, the taxpayer's money will keep draining, as will that of aid agencies like Rotary International and others. So far, the polio eradication campaign has cost $ 4 billion in international assistance and it has been estimated that eradication (including three years of follow-up) could cost another $ 1.2 billion. This is in sharp contrast to our experience with small pox, for which eradication took only 10 years and international expenditure was only $100 million.

Saudi Arabia demands vaccination certificates from Indian children accompanying their parents on Hajj. This has led to a loss in credibility and good will and this loss is probably incalculable.


Shantanu Dutta is a doctor by training and a development professional by vocation. He is an onlooker on events happening in India and the world in the realm of society, politics and the many intangible events that populate our lives.

http://desicritics.org/2006/11/23/005630.php

To conclude, I will request ppls like U to plz show some pity on ur poor muslim bretherns who for long have been lured out of mainstream by fake sympathisers. Just realize that Indian government has free primary education system for over half a century where any child can have access to primary eduation......what stops muslims not to send their children in those schools? Education at secondry level and college level is dirt cheap in India as compared to anywhere in the world, that too without any religious bias......what stops muslims to get their children educated over there??

REAL CULPRIT IS VERY MUCH AMONGST U BROTHER........JUST START LOOKING FOR HIM...........I ASSURE U CAN CATCH AND TAME HIM..........ONLY U HAVE TO BE A BIT SENSITIVE TOWARDS UR OWN UMMAH AND GIVE UP UR HATRED TOWARDS NON-MUSLIMS. PICTURE IS GLOOMY ON THAT FRONT TOO, BUT NOT AS MUCH AS U SO CALLED MUSLIM SYMPATHISERS TOUT IT TO BE. GET UR OWN HOME IN ORDER FIRST.

Rs 5,460 cr outlay for Muslims` uplift suggested
Submitted by aftababedin on Mon, 2006-12-18 10:21. Indian Muslim
New Delhi, Dec 18 (ZEENEWS.COM) After the Sachar Committee report, a sub-committee of the Planning Commission has now recommended a total plan outlay of Rs 5,460 crore for the educational uplift of the Muslim community.

The committee headed by academician Vimal Thorat has also presented a detailed plan for the inclusion of the outlay in the 11th Five Year Plan to bring the 'marginalised section' into the 'national mainstream.'

"Our committee had one of the mandates to suggest new programmes and schemes for the 11th Five Year Plan for the educational uplift of the community," Thorat told a news agency.

"It was surprising to note that Muslims were the worst in terms of education among all religious groups and around two crore children in the community have never seen a school," she added.

The other mandates of the committee were to examine the status of Muslims in terms of literacy rate, enrolment in schools and the role of schemes during the last two Five Year Plan periods and their impact.

The committee has suggested an 11-point Muslim community oriented programme for the 11th Plan. The recommendations are expected to cost the government around Rs 5,460 crore for the next five years, if accepted.

The major suggestions include allotment of around Rs 2,500 crore under the District Elementary Education Programme (DEEP) for setting up schools in Muslim-dominated localities. It also recommends giving scholarships costing 2000 crore, building of hostels and study centres (Rs 450 crore) and a National Urdu Book Trust (Rs 200 crore).

The committee has recommended that the community be armed with specific vocational training, so that the uneducated grown-ups and drop-outs are benefitted. The plan outlay for this has been calculated at around Rs 220 crore.

Apart from this, the committee has suggested a creche be opened for young married girls who wish to continue their studies at a cost of Rs 20 crore and special teachers for the community to be trained by spending Rs 20 crore.

It has said that special attention should be given to the modernisation of madrassas and mid-day meal programme in the Muslim-dominated localities.

The committee has suggested that 'grants-in-aid' be provided to the schools providing education to Muslim students, for which a sum of Rs 50 crore needed to be kept aside in the 11th Plan.

The committee had a total of five sittings in its five-month tenure and also travelled to various parts of the country for having first-hand perception about the educational status of the Muslims in the country.

"The situation is really revealing and a blind eye to the truth at this point of time could prove to be devastating," said Thorat.

"We have had data from various agencies including the National Sample Survey Organisation," she added.

Brother Afdal,

I m still waiting ur comments regarding my previous post.

For sake of ALLAH and ur muslim bretherns......plz stop spreading false propoganda......be a little sensitive towards ur ummah. Muslims are better off in India as compared to anywhere in the world......I can bet my last penny on this.

Plz talk.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

i think muslims in india are in a sort of a precarious position - made even more so after partition.
but, still, all the indian muslims i've known say they would rather live in india than pakistan.

Well brother,

The biggest problem of Indian muslim is their fellow muslims in guise of Mullahs and Maulvis, in synergy with Muslim leaders. And sadly they find propoganda experts like brother AFDAL and brother sonz, brainwash them by delivering fiery sermons and speeches. May ALLAH show them all the right path. AMEEN.

format_quote Originally Posted by Inshallah

Yeah i'm hyderabad, it's the second largest muslim group in india. The ratio of muslims to hindu's is 50:50 but the ratio of job employment is 20:80. Yes it's true muslims will never move forward in the work force. Thats why there's so many muslim doctors in north america because there is a racial blurr in india against muslims which is the obvious. You need connections to get in or a hell of a lot of money to bribe your way through.

NO offence intended brother, but is it for muslims alone to need money and connection in order to get a job or get admitted in medical college? Hindus dont have to go through this all? if yes than why u guys are hell bent in viewing every problem through religious and communal prism?

Religious bias may be there at personal level. And in my views muslims are always the biggest culprit in terms of religious bias......ur religion itself asks u to pratronize muslims.......nothing wrong in it, but why it becomes wrong when the shoe is in another foot?

Secondly, no offence intended again, if u find hindu intellectuals and compare them to their muslim counterpart, worldwide.......u will find that 800 millions hindus have an edge over 1400 million muslim bretherns. And as already stated in this theread.......muslims ruled India for good over 800 years......but hindus always fared better when it came to education even at that time too.

So plz for ALLAH's sake change ur communal mindset coz u are living in a secular nation.....both hindu and muslims have equal rights here, its not a theocratic state brother, its largest democracy of the world. Come lets shape India's future together with love and unity among us. U wont find such great country to live in anywhere on earth, so thank ALLAH that u are an Indian. Forget trivial communal issues. Its ur own country.

format_quote Originally Posted by Inshallah

Firstly i live in canada, i was born here. This is what my relatives tell me that move from india, this is how hyderabad is maybe i can't speak for all of india. All my cousins move here or to america for this very reason. It's the truth, hindus will always have a upper hand(politics) but you are right hindu's are smarter because they don't have to deal with the stress of being a muslim. We all have our opinions.

Well brother, its ironical that all ur cousins moved from India to America which has been the most hated nation amongst muslims. described often as enemy of Islam. although its their personal choice....but I find a bit hypocritic on their part to speak like this about India, a country where muslim minorities have been given all religious freedom apart from other freedoms.......I request U to plz compare it with other countries including America and Canada. U will discover some amazing facts and feel proud of being an Indian. Provided u try this with an unbiased mind. Will U?

And I will say that whatever ur relatives tell U about India is disgustingly false. May ALLAH have mercy on them.

Brother, so far as stress of being muslim is concerned.....why muslims are stressed for being a muslim even in muslim nation? Or this is yet another typical muslim excuse for not delievering at any front? religious and worldly?

format_quote Originally Posted by justahumane

NO offence intended brother, but is it for muslims alone to need money and connection in order to get a job or get admitted in medical college? Hindus dont have to go through this all? if yes than why u guys are hell bent in viewing every problem through religious and communal prism?

Religious bias may be there at personal level. And in my views muslims are always the biggest culprit in terms of religious bias......ur religion itself asks u to pratronize muslims.......nothing wrong in it, but why it becomes wrong when the shoe is in another foot?

Secondly, no offence intended again, if u find hindu intellectuals and compare them to their muslim counterpart, worldwide.......u will find that 800 millions hindus have an edge over 1400 million muslim bretherns. And as already stated in this theread.......muslims ruled India for good over 800 years......but hindus always fared better when it came to education even at that time too.

So plz for ALLAH's sake change ur communal mindset coz u are living in a secular nation.....both hindu and muslims have equal rights here, its not a theocratic state brother, its largest democracy of the world. Come lets shape India's future together with love and unity among us. U wont find such great country to live in anywhere on earth, so thank ALLAH that u are an Indian. Forget trivial communal issues. Its ur own country.

Are you talking about the 15% micro-minority Hindu or What ?????

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