salaam walaykum,
as you can see from my avatar i am a revert and this ayat was my main obstacle on my way to islam. if you read it carefully, in most of translations it mentions beating of a wife. even though i do understand that it means lightly and not to hurt, i still feel it goes in contradiction with prophet's SAW teachings where women are supposed to be highly respected and beating avoided and never resorted to.
can anyone with a deeper knowledge of islam clarify it for me please as i still can't understand it.
I found this Hadith hopefully someone can explain why Mohamed did not say anything to the husband about the bruise:
Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"
because Abdur Rahman (RA) had good reason and the womans statement of calling her husband useless is a comment which according to another hadith the women of hell make. (i only came to this conclusion because the prophet saws didnt admonish abdur rahman)
Whats Rifa'a?
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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I thought men had no right in Islam to leave a mark even if they have a "good reason"?
Laa adree, sorry chris i honostly dont know. Thanks for showing me that hadith subhaNAllah, i'll research on it, sorry for not being able to provide an answer straight away. i'll hopefully find out tonight inshaAllah (God willing)
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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4. The word 'daraba' has been grossly distorted when translated as 'beat' because 'beat' implies repetitive violent strikes with intent to cause injury and harm - all of which is against Islam.
5. Daraba has been described as a non-violent swat/hit that does not cause harm, nor targets the face or private parts, but is almost as mild as the strike of a miswâk (twig).
6. Also, one is prohibited from hitting when angry, as the other hadith on anger show.
Thank you for your great answers. I am so sorry you have talked about this many times before. I haven't read all the forums, so please understand. I did a bit a research in the Arabic dictionary on the word "Daraba"..... I found also that the word has many different meanings, {like you said grossly distorted". Could be it's an arabic word that's been translated maybe in the "wrong way". Instead of using the word "beat", it could be translated as "strike, and seperate them out" (from you). I mean look at it this way. How could it be said: "beat out from you?" It seems it makes more sense' since the Quran is against "wifebeating". The words striking, and beating can mean many different things in English too, so I truly think the word "Daraba" is a wrongly Arabic translated word with-in the English language...(ya never know, as they say) I did read also that Daraba is a verb.... as having at least ten different meanings. "daraba" has also other meanings which are not mentioned in the Quran. For example, I read in the Arabic language, you do not print money--you "daraba" money, you do not multiply numbers--you "daraba" numbers, you do not cease the work--you "daraba" the work. In Turkish they have many verbs similar to daraba, such as "tutmak", "calmak", "vurmak" etc. In English we have two verbs which are almost equivalent to "daraba". These are "strike" and "beat".
Seems to make more sense now... Thanks you so much for helping me out on this one. I do wish I knew a bit of the Arabic language. I think if I knew just a little' it would help me know more about what Iwant2no. You have been kind, thank you.
One thing I don't understand, how this kind of tapping gona have any effect on the spouse. If they are cheating, this wouldn't force them to change. The word also means part or separate. I also read somewhere in a hadiths that prophet (pbuh) tapped a companion with miswak to warn the person that he have to leave the mosque if he continues the behavior.
I don't have the hadiths, I bumped into the hadith when I was searching for another hadith. I think my point was not clear. I meant this kind of tapping can't force anyone to change, in other words, it is not something forceful.
It is not meant to force anyone to change. The hitting is meant to evoke recognition of the deterioration of the marriage and the manner in which the other party's behaviour is threatening the family.
Greetings Chris,
format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336
Ansar - How can you even say the man won't be angry if his wife is acting with such "nasty conduct?"
Very simple - I never said that. I said that he is obligated to control his anger and not to let his anger control him:
The Prophet said: 'If one of you happens to be standing when he becomes angry, then he should take a seat. If this helps his anger to subside, then good and well. Otherwise, he should go and lie down.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sahîh Ibn Hibbân) The Prophet said: 'The strong man is not the one who knocks others down, but the one who controls himself when angry.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim) The Prophet said: 'Teach the people and give them glad tidings. Do not make things difficult. And if you get angry, remain silent.' (Musnad Ahmad, Musnad al-Tayâlisî, and al-Adab al-Mufrad Bukhârî)
So the image you painted of giving an angry or enraged man this decision is not true; if he gets angry he is not even allowed to scream and shout he has to go lie down and calm down.
If he is not angry, then why does he even bother tapping her?
I said alreayd at the beginning that he is not trying to punish her or unleash his anger. The hit is to evoke recognition of the gravity of the situation.
Since you since have absolutely no regards for unIslamic behavior
False accusation.
let the women hit the men as well. If the men retaliate they are outside of Islam and its not your problem.
I already answered this. If the women do such a thing they could be endangering themselves especially if they do it to a man who is already guilty of manifest indecency.
And since you are such an expert on analogies, let me remind you that you compared a religion to a car, and permission to hit your wife lightly to a "Km/h" part of that car. But I'm sure your analogy makes perfect sense to you.
I compared this whole issue to the "km/hr" marking because this is a trivial issue in the grand scope of doctrine and theology, since this is a specific discouraged but allowed method of reconcilliation confined to a very specific set of circumstances and restricted under very stringent conditions. So to make this an obstacle to one's acceotance of Islam is only oppressing oneself. That example was about accepting Islam, but I gave that example back there when I had a very different impression of you and your attitude!
format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336
I found this Hadith hopefully someone can explain why Mohamed did not say anything to the husband about the bruise:
Actually, the other hadith fill in the picture, and they tell us that the Prophet said after such complaints reached him from women, "Many women have come to the family of Muhammad complaining about their husbands. Those men are certainly not the best of you!" (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan An-Nasâ'î, and others)
The Prophet also expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Sahîh Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim).
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
Ansar Al-'Adl, is there any punishment specified punishment or required course of action for men who hit their wives in a way not allowed by the Quran and sunnah?
Ansar Al-'Adl, is there any punishment specified punishment or required course of action for men who hit their wives in a way not allowed by the Quran and sunnah?
Yes, he is taken to court and then he is punished as much as the amount of harm he caused his wife, as per the law of retribution.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
salaam walaykum,
as you can see from my avatar i am a revert and this ayat was my main obstacle on my way to islam. if you read it carefully, in most of translations it mentions beating of a wife. even though i do understand that it means lightly and not to hurt, i still feel it goes in contradiction with prophet's SAW teachings where women are supposed to be highly respected and beating avoided and never resorted to.
can anyone with a deeper knowledge of islam clarify it for me please as i still can't understand it.
as far i as know the ulama has explained that thsi beating should be in a certain way that no mark is left on the persons body and never in the face
the word beating is not good here i am not native english to give another word i look into the dictionary it syay rebuky,reprove
how about husband beating? is it allowed in islam?
No. Why would she hit her husband, when he has the potential to hit her back, and harder? Especially considering how arrogant men are with respect to such things, what kind of trap would that be setting? It would not achieve anything and would just put the wife in a very dangerous position.
how about husband beating? is it allowed in islam?
---hehe , be practical.
U can’t beat anyone who is physically stronger than u , u will hurt badly then.
If situation is that bad that wife & hubby need to fight with each other , then it’s better to end the married life. OF course , they should follow the correct procedure.
Some religions have restriction on woman’s divorcing husband & re-marry. Islam does not prohibit women doing so if necessary.
Islam does not encourage divorce but allows it if needed.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
4:34.Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women you feel are averse, talk to them suasively; then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them) and go to bed with them (when they are willing). If they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great.
No. Why would hit her husband, when he has the potential to hit her back, and harder? Especially considering how arrogant men are with respect to such things, what kind of trap would that be setting? It would not achieve anything and would just put the wife in a very dangerous position.
We have come many cases of wives hitting their husband and it nearly ended to divorce when we found that it were cases of devil possesion .The hitting was very violent
I would rather say if the idea of hitting your wife come you would better go out of the house and take some fresh air till u become normal because normally hitting is done in case of anger and the prophet has always disapproved of it
to remember that a sahabah came to the prophet and ask for an advice and the prophet said three times do not get angry
hope it did not offence anyone
If I get hit, I am going to hit back......period. I don't care how big he is or how much stronger than me he is. That just means that I won't fight fair. The first thing I can get my hands on will go directly to the side of his head and he better be smart enough to not get back up.
If I get hit, I am going to hit back......period. I don't care how big he is or how much stronger than me he is. That just means that I won't fight fair. The first thing I can get my hands on will go directly to the side of his head and he better be smart enough to not get back up.
this depends on people character but it is also human
i was attacked by a chinese guy who hit me hard but since i was practising martial arts i did not reply and the kick did not do much on me .I just look at him he felt afraid and run away.I was afraid to kick him .i KNOW THAT with one punch i could kill him . On my side i do not reply if i do it could be disastrous till now
Islam is very definitive about a women's position in regards to a man. The Quran commands men to beat their wives if their wives persist in disobedience to her husband's requests or orders. This is a brutal way to subject women to men's commands, and as we see in Saudi, it opened the door for women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women, and further even commanding men to beat women, Islam makes women 2nd class people. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who are to treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line. There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam……………
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Wife beating? (OP)
You have been kind, thank you.
Chuck,
Re: Wife beating?
Re: 4:34 - a Q regarding the ayat
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