I have a situation where there are possibly two marriage proposals coming forth in the next couple of months.
Both men live outside UK, one in Italy (Iraqi), the other in Saudi (Jordanian).
I am a revert and knew the Jordanian before I converted through wanting to learn arabic about three years ago. He has two children and is separated - for many years he had problems within his marriage, his wife wanted a divorce to pursue a career, he didn't, but they stayed together for the children but now she has decided she wants out and the children now live with him. He is therefore looking for a good (2nd?) wife for him and his family and believes me to be what he is looking for, and especially happy that I reverted. We have basically kept in touch for 3 years by phone and email and so I know his background, his career changes, the ups and downs in his life during that time.
We got back in touch recently and he is coming to London at the end of June to finally meet up and has been talking about wedding arrangements in the UK, what are the rules.. how it can be done. To be honest.. I am looking forward to seeing him, after many years, and feel I know his character well. He is a good practising man, family orientated, knowledgeable, sensitive, mature, responsible and respectful with a bubbly personality. Alhamdulillah, I feel 'safe' with him, and we have both had a feeling about one another before, trusting our instinct that we would be right for one another.
Then there is someone else.. talk about buses!!! An Iraqi guy, who has persistantly been pursuing me, living in Italy. We have spoken briefly a few times and already he is calling me habibti, saying that he's found the one he wants, he also wants to come to London to meet me and be together halal etc., however he is shi'a and I'm not comfortable with this. He called me today and despite me mentioning the differences within our faith, he insists there is no real differences therefore no problem except if I want it to be a problem! For me, Sunni, I do find these differences a problem. I also know nothing really about him apart from the basics and his 'wooing' is making me feel uncomfortable.
Being new to the faith, and the first time that this has happened, I don't want to be so vulnerable and naive that I make a huge mistake. Yes, I do want to get married, but insha'Allah to the right man.
Can anyone offer some swift advice please, insha'Allah? It's making me quite anxious..
My gut feeling, and what I have prayed Istikhara for, is for the Jordanian. But, Allah Alim..
The first guy kept in contact with you while he was married?
A man and a woman who are not married should not be talking to each other and if they do your mahram should be there sister be careful not to fall into haram here.
The second guy should not call you *habibti* since again he is a stranger, you are not halal to each other, doesnt sound very religious, but Allah swt knows best.
If he is shia then that could be a problem trust me, if you are looking to have children raising them could be a problem there are quite major differences between sunni and shia sister be careful and think about the future.
Allah swt knows best but from your post you sound like you want to go for the first guy, the only thing that worries me is how he kept in contact with you while he was married.
I have a situation where there are possibly two marriage proposals coming forth in the next couple of months.
Both men live outside UK, one in Italy (Iraqi), the other in Saudi (Jordanian).
I am a revert and knew the Jordanian before I converted through wanting to learn arabic about three years ago. He has two children and is separated - for many years he had problems within his marriage, his wife wanted a divorce to pursue a career, he didn't, but they stayed together for the children but now she has decided she wants out and the children now live with him. He is therefore looking for a good (2nd?) wife for him and his family and believes me to be what he is looking for, and especially happy that I reverted. We have basically kept in touch for 3 years by phone and email and so I know his background, his career changes, the ups and downs in his life during that time.
We got back in touch recently and he is coming to London at the end of June to finally meet up and has been talking about wedding arrangements in the UK, what are the rules.. how it can be done. To be honest.. I am looking forward to seeing him, after many years, and feel I know his character well. He is a good practising man, family orientated, knowledgeable, sensitive, mature, responsible and respectful with a bubbly personality. Alhamdulillah, I feel 'safe' with him, and we have both had a feeling about one another before, trusting our instinct that we would be right for one another.
Then there is someone else.. talk about buses!!! An Iraqi guy, who has persistantly been pursuing me, living in Italy. We have spoken briefly a few times and already he is calling me habibti, saying that he's found the one he wants, he also wants to come to London to meet me and be together halal etc., however he is shi'a and I'm not comfortable with this. He called me today and despite me mentioning the differences within our faith, he insists there is no real differences therefore no problem except if I want it to be a problem! For me, Sunni, I do find these differences a problem. I also know nothing really about him apart from the basics and his 'wooing' is making me feel uncomfortable.
Being new to the faith, and the first time that this has happened, I don't want to be so vulnerable and naive that I make a huge mistake. Yes, I do want to get married, but insha'Allah to the right man.
Can anyone offer some swift advice please, insha'Allah? It's making me quite anxious..
My gut feeling, and what I have prayed Istikhara for, is for the Jordanian. But, Allah Alim..
JazakAllah khayran
Assalamu alaikum
sister, you are a new muslim so you have some allowable ignorance when it comes to such issues around free mixing but both of these guys have no excuses, they are committing zina of the tongue by talking with you and it is not allowable.
however if you wish to make things halal this is a good thing, my advice would be to get a wali (guardian) appointed by a local alim or sheikh who can act on your behalf and take marriage proposals without you needing to free mix and talk to men unnecessarily.
if a man of good standing comes forward you can then talk to him in the presense of your wali and arrange things this way.
regarding these two men, as far as i am aware almost all the shi'a from iraq are rafadiya, a branch of shi'aism which are the worse and do many evil and reprehensable things so i would forget him totally, many ulema say they are not even ahlul qibla (part of the overall muslim body) due to their kufr actions such as cursing the sahabah and lying against Allah and his Rasool (saws).
So perhaps the best option would be first of all get a wali appointed at a good local masjid (some are a bit useless at this but some will help), then ask the jordanian brother to approach your wali properly as he would any other muslim sister whether she is born into a muslim family or not, then things can be done correctly. if he is really a man of religion and honour and dignity, who has just slipped a little and needs a little correction on the ways of doing things then he should no problem doing things this way and recognise this as correct.
if things dont work out with the jordanian brother then your wali can help you look at other options then in your community as you will have access to a brother to be able to talk to others in the community and see who is looking to get married or not which is something which is more difficult for a single sister, especially a revert.
Follow your gut instinct sis. I'd say 'no' to the shia guy. Other than his inappropriate way of addressing you, it'd be a big problem as despite what he says there are huge differences between shias and sunnis. As far as I know shias do not even accept Abu Bakr (ra) as the first Caliph and believe the Caliphate should've gone to Ali (ra). It is already known that even sunnis differ in there opinions on some religious matters - depending on what school of thought they follow. Marrying a shia will bring nothing but trouble. Have faith in your consultation with Allah subhana wa ta'ala (Istikhara) and consider the proposal from the Jordanian brother. May Allah guide you and make your affairs easy for you. Ameen.
if you have two not so great options, look for a third! your life is in front of you and you want to marry an already married man, is that really ok with you,,
besides, there are marginally more men than there are women, why are you limiting yourself to only two.
P.S the sister asked for personal advice, not a session of shi'a bashing. even people within the same sect are different, 'shi'a commit horrible things' is one of the most hypocritical statements one could make,,
Who am I to give marriage advice, lol, I came by to drop a few things though..
Firstly, the Iraqi calling you habibti is.. very bizarre.. he shouldn't do that at all especially since you're not married with him.
Secondly, take your time with this. It seems you want to rush and think these two are the only people you'll find ever. Take your time.
Thirdly, I want to second alcurad here:
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
P.S the sister asked for personal advice, not a session of shi'a bashing. even people within the same sect are different, 'shi'a commit horrible things' is one of the most hypocritical statements one could make,,
Fourthly, if you decide to reject the Iraqi.. please do so in a sympathetic way.. not like: "Basically, your shi'a. Your evil, I don't want to marry you."
If you decide that this is the reason you won't take him, just explain to him what problems you think will arise.
Should I seek a source of law other than God, when it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (Qur'an) fully explained? And those whom We have given them the Book know that it has been sent down from the Lord with truth, so be not of those in doubt.
JazakAllah khayran for all your replies.. alhamdulillah it has helped a little although I have many things still on my mind.
The Iraqi shi'a, I sent him a respectful text saying that it wasn't working for me and hoped that he will find someone more suitable. I was too uncomfortable with his 'charming' kafir ways, but more importantly, I want someone who's deen matches mine insha'Allah.
The Jordanian.. he is racing ahead with ideas of marriage date but a few thoughts have come into play.. I am ashamed to relay these things but I'm putting all 'facts' on the table so that, insha'Allah, we are all aware of the situation and insha'Allah I will receive further good advice.
i) Although he is separated he hasn't said whether he and his wife will divorce.
ii) Because of the problems with his marriage, he has recently come into debt (approx £5000)
iii) He is quite moderate in his approach to Islam, thinking certain aspects should move with the times, however he is practising, prays 5x, fasts Mondays and Fridays etc... I, on the other hand, where my Islam is concerned I am quite conservative as I think a lot of reverts are.
My Islam is my priority in my life and alhamdulillah my taqwa is strong so of course I want to feel that my future spouse also has the same attitude, and another thing.. only if my spouse is like this will I have respect for him.
I am concerned that
a) I will marry but not feel spiritually fulfilled
b) I will feel that he is too western
c) He wants to marry me with a hidden agenda
He is coming over in June.. perhaps we should just meet briefly to see how we get on and deal with any issues/questions then. Unfortunately I have no mahram.. and this is one of the issues for reverts. I have a revert friend who married from a dating site, the day she met the man was the day she married him.. I speak to her about my issues but she doesn't really know what to say except that it's so difficult.
To be honest, I'm feeling 'scared' because I feel so vulnerable. Before I converted I was married for almost 20 years yet, insha'Allah, I do want to get married again but it's such a big step as in Islam there is no 'dating' so difficult to get to know someone. Alhamdulillah... I am trying to keep it all halal and insha'Allah I am doing my best.
My head is just going around in circles though. I will pray Istikhara tonight insha'Allah.
sister i have the perfect solution to your problem.......just put your hand in your purse take out a coin and just flip it! heads for the iraqi and tales for the other guy and bam! its all sorted
I know brother... I'm just keen to do the right thing, the right way and find the right man, insha'Allah.. it's a bit tricky for us reverts who have no family or wali...
you can meet in a public place, a woman is her own wali as it were. according to hanafi fiqh, if you don't have a wali, then you can marry yourself and so on.
also don't rush it, you're still new and enthusiastic, don't raise the bar too high,,
i) Although he is separated he hasn't said whether he and his wife will divorce.
this is a potentially huge problem, please find out where u stand with him and if he is planning on divorcing his wife-whats the hold back? dont walk into the middle of a married-not married situation
JazakAllah khayran for all your replies.. alhamdulillah it has helped a little although I have many things still on my mind.
The Iraqi shi'a, I sent him a respectful text saying that it wasn't working for me and hoped that he will find someone more suitable. I was too uncomfortable with his 'charming' kafir ways, but more importantly, I want someone who's deen matches mine insha'Allah.
The Jordanian.. he is racing ahead with ideas of marriage date but a few thoughts have come into play.. I am ashamed to relay these things but I'm putting all 'facts' on the table so that, insha'Allah, we are all aware of the situation and insha'Allah I will receive further good advice.
i) Although he is separated he hasn't said whether he and his wife will divorce.
ii) Because of the problems with his marriage, he has recently come into debt (approx £5000)
iii) He is quite moderate in his approach to Islam, thinking certain aspects should move with the times, however he is practising, prays 5x, fasts Mondays and Fridays etc... I, on the other hand, where my Islam is concerned I am quite conservative as I think a lot of reverts are.
My Islam is my priority in my life and alhamdulillah my taqwa is strong so of course I want to feel that my future spouse also has the same attitude, and another thing.. only if my spouse is like this will I have respect for him.
I am concerned that
a) I will marry but not feel spiritually fulfilled
b) I will feel that he is too western
c) He wants to marry me with a hidden agenda
He is coming over in June.. perhaps we should just meet briefly to see how we get on and deal with any issues/questions then. Unfortunately I have no mahram.. and this is one of the issues for reverts. I have a revert friend who married from a dating site, the day she met the man was the day she married him.. I speak to her about my issues but she doesn't really know what to say except that it's so difficult.
To be honest, I'm feeling 'scared' because I feel so vulnerable. Before I converted I was married for almost 20 years yet, insha'Allah, I do want to get married again but it's such a big step as in Islam there is no 'dating' so difficult to get to know someone. Alhamdulillah... I am trying to keep it all halal and insha'Allah I am doing my best.
My head is just going around in circles though. I will pray Istikhara tonight insha'Allah.
JazakAllah for any other words of advice,
Allah alim!
Fi aman Allah
Assalamu alaikum
if that is the case then i would advice you not to marry him, a woman naturally looks to her husband to be her teacher as well as her partner in the deen and this will therefore lead to your own misguidance or divorce later on.
a certain amount of difference is normal, you'll never find a perfect match but if he is modernist and you a stricter follower of ahlus sunnah then i have known plenty of reverts fall into this trap and end up in divorce.
Now you dont have a muslim father or brother to act as your wali so you need to approach the nearest big masjid and explain to the imam your situation, that you are getting marriage proposals and need a wali appointed or for the imam to act as your wali.
make sure it is someone simular to you in outlook and married so if he needs to meet with you to ask you questions his wife will be there as well so no need to mix and be alone with him either.
in a shariah based state, a sister without a wali gets the qadi (islamic judge) to act as her wali or her appoints someone to do it, however we are not in a shariah based state and there are very few good islamic courts so usually this responsibility falls to the imam here.
inshallah once you have a wali then it shouldnt be a problem getting offers from practicing good brothers as he should know people in the community looking to get married.
Brothers and sisters.. walahi i appreciate all your responses.
I am at a stage now where I just don't know what to do. I pray istikhara nightly.
There is another part to this equation that has transpired recently. Please, insha'Allah, I ask for just a few moments of your time to relay the current situation and I apologise for all these lengthy posts.
For some time now there has also been contact with another man, via email. He was always very quiet, polite and respectful in our conversations, mostly about the Quran and arabic, as halal as it could be. He is a sunni from Iraq, but working in Dubai in a professional position, never married, no children, a good family, and in his words, a good man with good values, seeking someone to support each other through dunya, not desiring to have children (I do not think I am able to... but he does not know this, so I appreciate his honesty). When we first communicated, after a few emails, he wanted himself and his family to meet me in Dubai. I declined for reasons and the communication lapsed I think perhaps I wasn't ready for that sort of thing and I wanted to work more on my Islam and do voluntary work. Now I am still doing this but the communication has opened up again. I have always respected the way this man communicated with me, always writing with a quietness and respect, and much about his work in the masjids, his love for his language and its history and pride for his country. Islamically, alhamdulillah, I found his belief and principles to be the same as mine, (even mentioning that he had to break the chat as he had to pray) and it has given me a sense of peace (as you know, to me this is important). I am not sure where our communication will lead to, perhaps he will want to pursue a meeting, with his family again! (his sister is already saying salaams to me!). I feel that at some point, somehow I would like to meet him.
I feel embarrassed writing like this but along with ya Rabb.. insha'Allah it will clear a few things in my mind.
Then the Jordanian - I have been reflecting over what he has said recently and today decided to email him basically explaining how I felt, about his situation, what differences might cause some concerns, about how I was concerned that he may be rushing too quickly after his marriage, and that he could not possibly have feelings for me as he did not know me, only through emails and chat, and perhaps he was more looking for something totally opposite to his wife, looking for an ideal, rather than an actual person, but that I happened to be that person. If you understand what I mean.
He then replied today, exclaiming that he was shocked by my email, however had much respect for my words and could sense my desire to keep things, insha'Allah halal, sensing greatly my taqwa. He apologised so many times for using words which may have been seen as flirtatious as which could have caused my re-thinking. He mentioned his 'divorce'.. this was never said in words before, and perhaps he never made this clear in his recent communications. He said that he can be devoted to me and only me with sincere respect and his children would be part of that and him if I was happy with that. He says that he has no confusion about his feelings. He again apologised for any misunderstandings and that his respect is for me and will always be. He wishes for us both to still remain in touch and that clearly email is not the way to know one another, but to get an idea about one another. He also feels I am confused!
Yes, I am confused.. ya Rabb knows my intention is good in my search but I'm not making it easy for myself. You can say, why rush? For my own reasons, alhamdulillah I don't feel I am rushing, but at the same time, I don't want to spend years waiting as I am in my 40s. I believe both these men to have good qualities although there are other things to consider. With the Jordanian, there are issues... but would further discussion makes things clearer? With the Iraqi... he seems quiet, straightforward and uncomplicated, a little older than me, 2 years!, and settled in his life except for a wife. I'm just not sure where to go from here. I don't like speaking to two men at once as I feel it's unfair. I also know that the Iraqi is very slow in his communication but direct, always keeping it halal, speaking to me when his family were present. I'm not quite sure what he wants from our communication although previously he has said he feels I am a good Muslimah, quiet (yes I am), and that he feels I am clear and honest person, insha'Allah; and finally that he had found in me, through emails, the wife he has been seeking.
Insha'Allah I just want to focus on one person.. if that doesn't work out, then Allah alim. With the Jordanian, because it's been a long time and I appreciate his email, there is compassion however I don't want this to sway my thoughts, or, alhamdulillah to feel hypocritical. I also don't want this whole thing taking up all my energy... I have recently joined a sisters group, about to, insha'Allah, start some voluntary work for an Islamic charity and don't want these two men to be the be all and end all! But also, if there's an opportunity to marry either of these men, I also don't want to lose this. I just don't want to waste anyone's time.
Also.. walahi la adheem, there are no others that will be joining this equation! Insha'Allah I don't want any more communication from anyone else.. it's just too much LOL!!! After this I will just live for ya Rabb!
Sigh... words of advice.. insha'Allah, and jazakAllah khayran for your time from a 'getting stressed out' , LOL, muslima.
Sister, you need to beware of people who want to marry for a passport, as many people on matrimonial sites try to marry people in europe/america simply to get there. (I take you met the second Iraqi through a matrimonial site?) There may be good people out there, but you never know. Also, don't just throw out the Jordanian just because you've now met another person. I'd suggest that you consider one first and once you've decided that he's not for you, then contact another. considering more than one guy at a time will only confuse you. Since you've known the Jordanian for some time, you should have a good idea of what he's like. If he's too moderate and you're a strict muslima then forget about him. but if he's a good muslim, then talk to an imam and have him talk to the Jordanian. (Since he's practising muslim, I think you should give him a chance, that is if he's divorced already. Ask to see a divorce certificate.) But do Isthikhaara first.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
I know brother... 
I'm just keen to do the right thing, the right way and find the right man, insha'Allah.. it's a bit tricky for us reverts who have no family or wali... 
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks