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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Having doubts for the first time.

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    I'm finding it extremely difficult. I've always had faith in my religion, through the worst and lowest times of my life, proud of every aspect of it, even when I haven't been practising and even when my Iman has been low to non existence I always felt strongly about Islam, protective of it, vocal against any criticisms towards it. I loved my religion. But due to some personal experiences I can't help but think there are some individuals who harm others, who go out of the way to cause them alot of suffering, pain and affect them in crippling ways, with no remorse towards their actions, and then what they read the quran during Ramadan and suddenly their sins are forgiven and they get the best Muslim award due to some things they done (outwardly things like praying, fasting and reading quran) but hey it's ok what they previously done without feeling bad in the slightest and continuing their ways after ? It just doesn't sit well with me. Is that what my religion stands for ? Surely this can't be it. I feel pretty upset at what this person has done. And I see non muslims who have done amazing selfless things, who help out of the goodness of their hearts, true pure inner character within them. And yet this monster I know who can hurt people and inflict trauma without any issue or thought to it, will be getting rewarded during the month of Ramadan because every letter of the quran he reads will be x 10 rewarded. Is this right or fair ?

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    taha_'s Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedove View Post
    I'm finding it extremely difficult. I've always had faith in my religion, through the worst and lowest times of my life, proud of every aspect of it, even when I haven't been practising and even when my Iman has been low to non existence I always felt strongly about Islam, protective of it, vocal against any criticisms towards it. I loved my religion. But due to some personal experiences I can't help but think there are some individuals who harm others, who go out of the way to cause them alot of suffering, pain and affect them in crippling ways, with no remorse towards their actions, and then what they read the quran during Ramadan and suddenly their sins are forgiven and they get the best Muslim award due to some things they done (outwardly things like praying, fasting and reading quran) but hey it's ok what they previously done without feeling bad in the slightest and continuing their ways after ? It just doesn't sit well with me. Is that what my religion stands for ? Surely this can't be it. I feel pretty upset at what this person has done. And I see non muslims who have done amazing selfless things, who help out of the goodness of their hearts, true pure inner character within them. And yet this monster I know who can hurt people and inflict trauma without any issue or thought to it, will be getting rewarded during the month of Ramadan because every letter of the quran he reads will be x 10 rewarded. Is this right or fair ?
    Assalam o alaikum rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

    Allah is Al Adl. The Just.

    He is aware of all things including good and evil actions that all humans do and will in future.

    We dont know anyone's heart and intention. So that person you mentioned should be left to be judged by Allah.

    Repentance is not like saying "oh Allah forgive me" without any feeling and then ends up commiting same sins intentionally.

    It needs to be sincere, you need to feel bad and you must make promise that you will never commit same sin.

    Just remember hazrat omar who planned to kill prophet peace be upon him then became 2nd best companion and was buried next to prophet peace be upon him.

    Dont judge islam because of muslims. Read prophet peace be upon him biography. Read about his behaviour, how he behaved with people. He was loving, and caring, patient, gentle, beautiful mannered. Allah praised him in Quran for his character.


    JazakAllah khair.
    | Likes Avis liked this post
    Having doubts for the first time.

    Please don't rep me or like my posts


    I beg Allah peace for us and for you.

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    MazharShafiq's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by taha_ View Post
    Assalam o alaikum rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

    Allah is Al Adl. The Just.

    He is aware of all things including good and evil actions that all humans do and will in future.

    We dont know anyone's heart and intention. So that person you mentioned should be left to be judged by Allah.

    Repentance is not like saying "oh Allah forgive me" without any feeling and then ends up commiting same sins intentionally.

    It needs to be sincere, you need to feel bad and you must make promise that you will never commit same sin.

    Just remember hazrat omar who planned to kill prophet peace be upon him then became 2nd best companion and was buried next to prophet peace be upon him.

    Dont judge islam because of muslims. Read prophet peace be upon him biography. Read about his behaviour, how he behaved with people. He was loving, and caring, patient, gentle, beautiful mannered. Allah praised him in Quran for his character.


    JazakAllah khair.
    w slam totally agreed.
    Having doubts for the first time.


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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Yes however there is more emphasis on the outwardly actions it seems than intention and being a good person. If there was more reward for being a good person, would that make Muslims actually care about how they behave ? Instead there is emphasis on every single letter you read the reward being x 10 more so you get individuals who treat people so awfully thinking that means more than their actual character and that they can continue being bad, as long ad they read quran at the end of the day. I understand of not judging the religion in the way that Muslims behave but if you look at other religions such as the Jewish community they help each other, irrespective and that is why their people thrive. We don't. And again I'm finding it hard and sad to absorb why there doesn't seem to be as much reward stressed and encouraged as being good to one another, instead just the outside actions as I mentioned.

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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Judge people by Islam. Don't judge Islam by people.

    http://www.gbv.de/dms/mpib-toc/501786732.pdf

    ...

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Honestly I say the same thing each and everytime I defend Muslims, that same line. And I would never say the above to non Muslims but I can't help but really notice it so massively in our face and it just left me with a sour feeling. Again I understand that yes the character of a good Muslim is outlined but the debate here, is that there is more reward for the outside actions than there is for good deeds towards each other and being a sincere person. Anyway Eid Mubarak everyone. Hope you all have an amazing Eid inchallah.

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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedove View Post
    I'm finding it extremely difficult. I've always had faith in my religion, through the worst and lowest times of my life, proud of every aspect of it, even when I haven't been practising and even when my Iman has been low to non existence I always felt strongly about Islam, protective of it, vocal against any criticisms towards it. I loved my religion. But due to some personal experiences I can't help but think there are some individuals who harm others, who go out of the way to cause them alot of suffering, pain and affect them in crippling ways, with no remorse towards their actions, and then what they read the quran during Ramadan and suddenly their sins are forgiven and they get the best Muslim award due to some things they done (outwardly things like praying, fasting and reading quran) but hey it's ok what they previously done without feeling bad in the slightest and continuing their ways after ? It just doesn't sit well with me. Is that what my religion stands for ? Surely this can't be it. I feel pretty upset at what this person has done. And I see non muslims who have done amazing selfless things, who help out of the goodness of their hearts, true pure inner character within them. And yet this monster I know who can hurt people and inflict trauma without any issue or thought to it, will be getting rewarded during the month of Ramadan because every letter of the quran he reads will be x 10 rewarded. Is this right or fair ?
    Who says?
    If the religion were this simple, no judgement day would be needed
    You are accountable for every word you speak, every deed you do with your hands, every place you go , etc.
    Last edited by soheil1; 05-23-2020 at 09:44 PM.
    | Likes Eric H liked this post

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    soheil1's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedove View Post
    Honestly I say the same thing each and everytime I defend Muslims, that same line. And I would never say the above to non Muslims but I can't help but really notice it so massively in our face and it just left me with a sour feeling. Again I understand that yes the character of a good Muslim is outlined but the debate here, is that there is more reward for the outside actions than there is for good deeds towards each other and being a sincere person. Anyway Eid Mubarak everyone. Hope you all have an amazing Eid inchallah.
    Imam Ali ibn Hussain (PBUH) was asked about all thhe rulings of Islam, to which he replied: speaking the truth, fair judgement, and keeping the promise

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Thankyou for your responses. But again you all do what I do, getting defensive and you are getting defensive without responding directly to the point. I understand we are all accountable but the question is, is there more emphasis on MORE reward and higher urgency for the OUTWARDLY actions. Go back to my example. Every letter you read of the quran in Arabic you get 10 times more reward in Ramadan. I haven't yet heard about 10 times more reward for treating people nicely ? For being good to one another ? So when I see certain Muslims not necessarily be very kind individuals but doing things like reading quran, I ask myself why do they feel importance to read quran because every letter is reward 10 times more but not bother to be as much of a good person, or they find it easier to be nasty to others without thinking twice about it ? Because one holds more reward ? Instead of getting defensive I think it is good to question why this happens in our community because it does. As Muslims do more lectures and seminars and Ramadan revolve around the outwardly things. If you can give an example where being a good person equally holds that same value as something as specific as ( each letter you read 10 times more reward than usual ) ?

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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Above was in response to Soheil.

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Question isn't whether being good is mentioned, we know it is. But the debate is whether the other seems to hold so much more value.

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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    God describes himself as being compassionate. so follow suite, and don't be distracted by others

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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    I say this kindly but if you are going to respond please refer to the question. See my last response. Telling me not to get distracted when I am questioning and seeking answers is a fine example of not giving the right direction. If I were a non Muslim, that would not be helpful and it seems you are diverting. Would appreciate anyone with knowledge to answer in a way that can clarify the points mentioned inchallah. I like to understand my religion so this has nothing to do with distraction. I am sorry to say but this is a problem within the Muslim community and it's never addressed.

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    P.s I love Allah. But I'm allowed to question and seek answers. Thankyou and Jazakallah khayr in taking time to reply.

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    soheil1's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedove View Post
    I say this kindly but if you are going to respond please refer to the question. See my last response. Telling me not to get distracted when I am questioning and seeking answers is a fine example of not giving the right direction. If I were a non Muslim, that would not be helpful and it seems you are diverting. Would appreciate anyone with knowledge to answer in a way that can clarify the points mentioned inchallah. I like to understand my religion so this has nothing to do with distraction. I am sorry to say but this is a problem within the Muslim community and it's never addressed.
    Where was the mere "reading" of Quran given reward at all??
    Whenever Iman is mentioned, good deeds is mentioned in quran.
    Having good morale iman:
    اکمل المؤمنین ایمانا احسنهم خلقا
    Last edited by soheil1; 05-24-2020 at 05:46 AM.

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Example : I was reading Quran in English because I like to understand it and wanted to read all of it in Ramadan. I was then passed on lecture ( I can check, speaker at Brixton Mosque) for every letter you read in Arabic u get 10 times more reward during Ramadan). When I memorize Quran I use transliteration (Arabic spelt in English) along with the recitor to get pronunciation and tajweed correct) however I can't read Arabic itself fluently, I would read a sentence like a dyslexic, making effort to join the letters). Anyhow during Ramadan I thought maybe more important for me to understand and increase my iman via knowing what I'm reading, but after hearing the talk, I checked with others and you don't get the same reward for reading in english. ( a little unfair but apparently you are rewarded more for effort in how difficult it is for you). So this is an example of the reward scale being very specific. Is this from Quran or Hadith ? So people are more motivated and as a general Muslims in practise certainly are more focused on the outside actions ( which yes I understand are important) but then are they so much more important and honourable then actually being a good person, because sometimes (alot of the time) these same people and muslims can behave very badly, or not be kind, can behave without caring out the bad impact or effect their actions have left another person in. Why ? Because there isn't enough emphasis on if you are good to someone you get ( x 10 reward ). This is both for London and also in the Arabic country I am from ( it's always the outside that counts). And I have had this criticism given before by non muslims and believe me i have defended it. However I'm just noticing it more recently is all.

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    You keep saying good deeds are mentioned. I know this. Read my replies properly. We are talking in comparison and the fact that the reward isn't as specific as the outwardly things hence why is it less seen as not essential or forefront. If everything is judged by intention then why isn't being a good person x 20 reward. Why are muslims just so fixated on outside actions ( things that can be seen) then actually bothering to be good to one another, helping one another and actually not being nasty. I'm just trying to understand and get to the root of why this happens. Are there rewards that are not talked about or do they have no specific reward. This is why if someone has proper knowledge would be better.

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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    I understand that the prophet Muhammed (pbu) was of the best character. Even to his enemies who threw rocks at him, wanted to kill him, he didn't seek out to destroy them whilst they made his life a living hell. Instead he prayed for them. I mean look at us, someone overtakes us in traffic and we are cursing them under our breath lol. Our prophet is the best example of how we should be and I am aware of the depths of this. But going back to this current time and why I am really very puzzled and started to doubt things, why are so many things all revolved around higher reward for what you do in physical actions. If being good actually matters so much why isn't reward on equal scale or aligning with that so that Muslims actually maybe put some input into how they behave. Or praying 5 times a day, going to the mosque, reading quran makes you a star Muslim but hey there's no big deal about not being a twit to your other Muslim brothers and sisters, about being honest, about not being rude, deceitful, maybe helping one another, not looking down at one another based on judgement, about good deeds etc. I mean honestly there are so many non muslims who naturally are just much more sincere people and that's without knowledge of Islam. Yet we as Muslims seem to not quite always be there in that department which is odd considering " everything is judged by our intention and sincerity ".

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    soheil1's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedove View Post
    You keep saying good deeds are mentioned. I know this. Read my replies properly. We are talking in comparison and the fact that the reward isn't as specific as the outwardly things hence why is it less seen as not essential or forefront. If everything is judged by intention then why isn't being a good person x 20 reward. Why are muslims just so fixated on outside actions ( things that can be seen) then actually bothering to be good to one another, helping one another and actually not being nasty. I'm just trying to understand and get to the root of why this happens. Are there rewards that are not talked about or do they have no specific reward. This is why if someone has proper knowledge would be better.
    You are saying some people harm others and still are called good Muslims?
    A "Muslim" wanted to plant a tree at the door of a christian in Madina. The christian complained to the prophet (PBUH), upon which the prophet (PBUH) called the "muslim", telling him to plant the tree somewhere else, and even promising him ten times reward in paradise, and the "muslim" still rejected the offer. (I might have forgotten some details of the story). The prophet (PBUH) eventually said "You are a harming individual and no harm and no harming is in Islam" [انت شخص مضار و لا ضرر و لا ضرار فی الاسلام] and sent some people to uproot the tree completely. This is a fundamental principle when giving verdicts, called "no harm " principle
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    whitedove's Avatar
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    Re: Having doubts for the first time.

    Yes that part was sarcasm, "them being seen as good Muslims" by others because " it's all about the outside. Truth is, Muslims can be malicious towards one another, they don't really care how they treat each other be it on a personal level, a business level ; we are talking about attitude and kindness. I mean I haven't heard if every Muslim does one kind selfless act towards his neighbour then you get x 5 times more hasana (reward). Why ? Our focus is always solely on ( just seen a post on sunnah for Eid) and there is a list. The only one emphasis I have really seen is give to charity ( which is good hamdollilah) we should try and do this all year round and I love that about Ramadan, our reminded and importance on charity. But I just feel if more importance was out on nice things we could be doing for each other (whether it's to family members, to neighbours, a good deed we can do to non muslims which represents us in a good light) ( I remember going to a seminar and the speaker, great guy, him and his wife used to cook and always offer food to their english neighbours and tbh alot of the stuff he covered was refreshing for a change on these small yet big things we should be doing ). As a whole though just not as highly admired and encouraged than other acts such as praying all night ( which yes is admirable) but surely better when coupled with encouragement to actively be motivated to not have ugly personalities toward other people.


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