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أحمد
03-10-2005, 05:51 PM
:sl:

:) We've studied the Ontological argument at college, a while back in Religious Studies, and I noticed that it's an argument which early Muslim scholars have used before Anselm. One very well known is Abu Hamid al-Ghazali; who took the argument directly from Surah al-Ikhlas. And that one is by far better than the Anselm's one used today in arguing for the existence of God.

:shade: Please do read Surah al-Ikhlas (chapter 112) and also try to understand it. It is by far the best of any possible ontological argument.

:w:
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Maryam
03-10-2005, 05:53 PM
:sl:

Marshallah brother, i'll try to understand it, but know it off by heart, alhamdiullah.
Thanks for sharing, brother :) :thumbs_up

:w:
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أحمد
03-10-2005, 05:59 PM
:sl:

Also Anselm's argument is as follows:

"God is that than which nothing greater can be concieved"
If the definition of God is to be understood by an individual then he/she is forced to conclude that God exist's.

:D Alhamdulillah. Now compared to the Quranic argument, this is nothing.

:w:
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أحمد
03-10-2005, 07:32 PM
:sl:

:bravo: Alhamdulillah. Now we can clearly see why the Quran is the proof of God's existence, :D where all other ontological arguments fail; :shade: this one succeed's. ;) Also please refer to Surah al-Kahf 18: verse 1.

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-10-2005, 08:32 PM
:sl:

Br. Ahmed Waheed, why don't you explain the ontological argument for us?

jazakAllah Khayr.
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Uthman
03-10-2005, 09:59 PM
:sl:

Heres a link but I think Br. Ahmed Waheed can provide an even better explanation.

:w:
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أحمد
03-11-2005, 03:15 PM
:sl:

:D Alhamdulillah. I see :brother: Osman's provided us with a good link for the ontological argument. :zip: So I don't have to say much now . . .

:shade: I'll just sit back and relax (not) while you work out what I meant. Imam Ghazali wrote a book; I can't remember the title, but it was part of his kalam arguments (that what they are known as anyway).

:w:
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أحمد
03-11-2005, 04:56 PM
:sl:

:) In one sense its good, that you get to prove Islam as the Religion of truth in debates against the teachers (they are non-Muslims)

:w:
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أحمد
03-13-2005, 01:26 AM
:sl:

:) Don't worry :brother: Hash. :p We're going to set-up a decent Islamic Society at Mathew Bolton College (I'm not sure how the college name is spelt) Insha-Allah . . . :shade: ;)

:) It would be very good if you could join the CISA; I'll explain some other time Insha-Allah, but if you want to join; please try to come to the meeting on Saturday 19th March (next week), at 12pm to Al-Hijrah School, on Burbidge road. That's in the Bordesley Green area. Please do ask me if you don't know how to get there. I would also still recommend brother Haroon to join as well, because it is actually there for a reason.

:zip: btw :brother: Hash, what school do you go to?

:w:
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Eddi
03-13-2005, 01:35 AM
:thumbs_up Good CISA. Good Qari. Nice work. Keep it up (well its obvious enough)
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Eddi
03-13-2005, 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

Oh right, well i should be going to matthew bolton college and i dont think they offer religous studies course, thats a shame. I am really enjoying it now in my year 11 GCSE course, should be a easy A* insh'Allah.

:w:
I think you should come to JC!
:w:
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أحمد
03-13-2005, 07:34 PM
:sl:

:shade: Well actually Eddi come's to JC, and you'll only get positive feedback from him about the Islamic Society, and all I can say is; that its good and I run the Islamic Society . . . :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p ;) ;D

:w:
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أحمد
03-14-2005, 01:17 PM
:sl:

:D Anyway, back to the topic; "God is; so He exists". Surah al-Ikhlas; a chapter from the Quran has been telling us for the past one and a half millenium, and we notice it, only after a long time. The Prophet (saw) taught the sciences of Tawheed as basic beliefs. Today we take like rocket-science. Knowledge has dropped a gret deal low. So let us turn to Allah for help. May Allah guide us . . . Ameen

:D Would anyone like to point out some of the concepts of tawheed from Surah al-Ikhlas? I'll start you off:

Tawheed ar-Rabubiyah, second verse . . .

:w:
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root
03-14-2005, 01:24 PM
The same basis of arguement for creationism. You are here in complexity, thus you must have been created.
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أحمد
03-14-2005, 01:29 PM
:sl:

:D And that's a nice way towards the teleological argument as well . . . :p ;)

:w:
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