A believer against an atheist. Hope you like it

[anthiok]

:sl:

Dear brothers and sisters,

Throughout my life, I have learned that unless you know about a subject better that the ones around you, you shouldn't try to discuss about it. Because the ones who know the subject better can beat you in discussion, even you may be ridiculed

Therefore, we better exactly know about atheism and get to the ultimate point which makes theists and atheists disagree : "Which is eternal, thought or substance?"

Atheism, in its broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of any deities. That is, all who do not have such a belief—whether they are nontheists, agnostics, or even Buddhists—are covered under this term. Atheism can also be defined more narrowly as the active rejection of the existence of gods, either of a specific or general kind, or even that gods can exist. Generally speaking, atheism refers to a lack of belief in all deities for any reason.

In essence, materialism answers the fundamental question of philosophy by asserting the primacy of the material world: in short, matter precedes thought.

Materialism holds that the world is material, that all phenomena in the universe consist of matter in motion, wherein all things are interdependent and interconnected and develop in accordance with natural law, that the world exists outside us and independently of our perception of it, that thought is a reflection of the material world in the brain, and that the world is in principle knowable.

The eternity of one wise thought or a substance is something which even an atheist cannot deny, for if he does, he falls into the trap of contradicting with logical concepts

The principal question is: "From where did it come into being?"

Here, I wrote a fictional dialogue between an atheist (A) and a believer (Q). I hope that will be fun and useful for you in your further discussions

Q: You don't believe in God do you?
A: No
Q: Then answer my questions will you?
A: Yes, sure
Q: From where did this desk come into being?
A: From a piece of wood
Q: What about that wood?
A: From a tree
Q: Tree?
A: From a seed
Q: Seed?
A: From another tree
Q: What about the first tree of all?
A: From soil
Q: Soil?
A: From rocks
Q: Rocks?
A: From magma
Q: Magma?
A: From earth itself
Q: Earth?
A: From sun
Q: Sun?
A: From a supernova
Q: Supernova?
A: From the universe itself
Q: Universe?
A: From something that originates it.
Q: What is it?
A: A substance. A substance that is eternal in past. Nothing precedes it
Q: So how did it create a motion that resulted to the universe?
A: Perhaps it was an enormously dense and hot that it exploded, or it was changeable in its own nature
Q: Was it the big bang?
A: Perhaps, i am not sure.
Q: So you think that an eternal substance did all this work itself unconsciously.
A: Well yes, I have to. That is why I am an atheist
Q: And that is the main point that differs us. I believe that the eternal one is thought, an energy, an infinite power, a conscious and wise thought, nothing precedes him. That is the one and the only creator
A: I see. I believe in an unaware substance
Q: By the way, what if aliens from space created us?
A: Yes, that is what I can believe
Q: Who created them then?
A: Aah. Ok! That is enough

:w:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you anthiok,

As logical as your line of reasoning may seem to other theists, sadly it will not seem so logical to atheists, they will already have gone down this road and come up with another answer.
If we are being honest most of the things we call truth and facts, are really only a belief; there are no facts to prove to an atheist that God exists. If you think you have facts to prove Gods existence simply go to a forum called internet infidels and try and I wish you luck if you do.

In the spirit of searching for truth

Eric

[akulion]

Walikum Salam

Allah swt says in the Quran that many disbelievers persist in their error and keep arguing
this is said in various places in the Quran

Then the famous verse from Surah Baqara "Deaf Dumb and Blind they are they shall never come to the straight Path"

Then even more famous Surah Al Kafiroon where Allah swt tells us
That instead of endlessly debating with them we should say to those who reject faith..

I worship not as you worship
And never shall I worship as yu worship
So to you be your way
And to me mine

So bro its not always about winning a debate
Sometimes one has to draw the line after realizing the person you are talking to or debating with is simply arguing for the sake of argument

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace akulion;

I worship not as you worship
And never shall I worship as yu worship
So to you be your way
And to me mine

There lies the problem between people of all faiths, somehow we have to build friendships despite our differences.

God bless

Eric

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[akulion]

thats not a problem but a solution actually

that we are to tell each other rather than dispute

To you be your way and to me mine

and then we chill

[anthiok]

:sl:

Yes, my friends I agree with you that if someone does not believe and if he does not want to, nothing can make him believe. That is what Qur'an also tells us.

However, just as they use logic, we could also. This would also strenghten our notion of Allah in our hearts when we believe with our minds also. Unfortunately, I observe that most Muslims believe without logic (believe since their fathers believe).

For further reference, here is an article "the fall of atheism" which might get your attention:

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/7...eism_sci34.php

Since most of them would not believe, the aim is not to strive for them to believe, but to irritate. We better dwindle their basics to a minimum extend on which they construct their belief. If you want to inject your ideas, just try to create confusion on minds.

:w:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace akulion;

If only all conversations could be in a chilled and friendly manor then diversity would not cause us conflict.

Maybe we have to try and be chilled before we enter into a conversation that involves diversity, maybe we need to pray for a blessing to rest on the other person before we post in a non-chilled fashion.

May God bless you

Eric

[akulion]

chilled ?
non-chiled?

i dont get it