The 10 Commandments: A Refutation of the Claimed Absurdity

[AntiKarateKid]

Hey! I am reading about "moral reasoning" in my philosophy class and my instructor claims that the commandment, Thou shall not kill is absurd. I get points in class for debating so I am going to try and counter this claim of his.

You can't say that that commandment is absurd because at the time it was generally known that killing in self defense was allowed. No sensible person would question killing in self defense. The problem then was the act of senseless killing. Killing for no reason other than gain or perverse pleasures. Thus Good sent this commandment to the Jews at the time to set this measure against them.

Is there anything wrong with my logic? I am new to debating in class.

[anatolian]

Did he/she say why found it absurd?

[wilberhum]

The professor is correct "Thou shall not kill is absurd".

As you have pointed out, there are exceptions yet the law does not allow for exceptions.

[snakelegs]

in hebrew, it is "thou shalt not murder"

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[AntiKarateKid]

Is that really true Snakelegs?? HA! Then that solve this debate.

Murder: kill intentionally and with premeditation

Therefore the commandment is NOT absurd. Bah translations really confuzzle people eh?

[Trumble]

Murder: kill intentionally and with premeditation

Having done a wee bit of googling it seems the Hebrew is actually closer to "killing in anger" (although that isn't quite it, either). Premeditation is not required.

That said, it seems you have a good case.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

“Thou Shalt Not Kill”
— Ex. 20:
- -

The Jewish sages note that the word “ratsakh” applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) — and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as “thou shalt not kill” is too broad.

Since man is made in the image of God, his life is infinitely precious — only God Himself has the right to give and take life. In the Mishnah it is written, “Why was only one man (i.e., Adam) created by God? — to teach that whoever takes a single life destroys thereby a whole world.”

But murder can be figurative as well as literal. The Talmud notes that shaming another publicly is like murder, since the shame causes the blood to leave the face. Moreover, gossip or slander are considered murderous to the dignity of man. The Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) states, “The evil tongue slays three persons: the utterer of the evil, the listener, and the one spoken about…” The Lord Jesus also linked the ideas of our words and attitudes with murder (see Matt. 15:19).

[snakelegs]

Is that really true Snakelegs?? HA! Then that solve this debate.

Murder: kill intentionally and with premeditation

Therefore the commandment is NOT absurd. Bah translations really confuzzle people eh?

yes, it is true.

לא תרצח = lo tirtzach
רצח = murder

[AntiKarateKid]

Cool thanks for the responses!

[YusufNoor]

Hey! I am reading about "moral reasoning" in my philosophy class and my instructor claims that the commandment, Thou shall not kill is absurd. I get points in class for debating so I am going to try and counter this claim of his.

You can't say that that commandment is absurd because at the time it was generally known that killing in self defense was allowed. No sensible person would question killing in self defense. The problem then was the act of senseless killing. Killing for no reason other than gain or perverse pleasures. Thus Good sent this commandment to the Jews at the time to set this measure against them.

Is there anything wrong with my logic? I am new to debating in class.

:sl:

there MAY be something wrong in the logic of debating subjects that you are unsure of, you ask for help with Islamic questions and the Ten Commandments are Jewish/Israeli!

while the word IS translated as most often as kill even in Jewish translations, it is taken for granted that you understand it as "illicit" killing.

lets look at the chapter in question:Ramban tells us [note 173 in Artscroll's Ramban The Torah With Ramban's Commentary Translated, Annotated and Elucidated by Rabbi Yaakov Blinder, Rabbi Nesanel Kasnett, Rabbi Yehudah Bulman and Rabbi Avie Gold Shemos/Exodus Volume 1 publidhed by Mesorah Publications Ltd June 2006 ] that The Commandments are also arranged in order of descending severity...the four methods of execution prescribed in the Torah are( in descending order of severity): stoning, burning, beheading, strangling.

[note 174] The punishment for idolatry is stoning (Dueteronomy 17:5)

[note 175] The punishment for murder is beheading (see Sanhedrin 52b)

[note 176] The punishment for adultry is strangling (see[Sanhedrin] 84b)

so you have a religion set up with KILLING as punishment! so for one to say things such as:

[QUOTE Originally posted by wilberhum
The professor is correct "Thou shall not kill is absurd".

As you have pointed out, there are exceptions yet the law does not allow for exceptions.
[/QUOTE]

IS ABSURD! unless i'm missing his point. however as

Originally posted by anatolian
Did he/she say why found it absurd?

good question!

and let's not forget that Joshua was instructed to go into the "Promised Land" and "kill everybody in it!" and they suffered because they didn't!

:w:

[snakelegs]

yusuf noor,
i don't know if you read this whole thread or not, but "thou shalt not kill" is actually "thou shalt not murder" in hebrew.
obviously there was no prohibition against killing. murder is also killing, of course - but the word for killing is different than the word for murder specifically.

[YusufNoor]

yusuf noor,
i don't know if you read this whole thread or not, but "thou shalt not kill" is actually "thou shalt not murder" in hebrew.
obviously there was no prohibition against killing. murder is also killing, of course - but the word for killing is different than the word for murder specifically.

Greetings snakelegs,

yes, but as i stated, in the Jewish Tanakh's and Torah's it IS translated as plain kill. and in one they added in the note: illicit killing. i checked 5 or 6 different Torahs and/or Tanakhs. [i thought that pointing this out was important as RighteousLady cited the KJV translation.]

my points were that AntiKarateKid has problems defending Islam let alone Judaism and that others [other than you and RighteousLady were treating it as kill, including AntiKarateKid] were thinking kill. so i gave examples of how "just plain kill" was wrong to AntiKarateKid, not necessarily you or RighteousLady! knowwhatimean?

:w:

[Malaikah]

:sl:

AntiKarateKid - you should consider whether the law that you shouldn't kill is totally complete and meant to stand on its own, or are there other details of the law that are intended to explain that commandment and add to it, including provide exceptions?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you AntiKarateKid;

I think you are looking at this from the perception of standing trial in a man made court. If this is truly a commandment from God, then we shall have to stand on trial before God.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hey bro, Assalaamu alaikum

theres more to the law then that, you dont go up and kill an innocent person for no reason, now obviously that is a huge crime.

The 10 commandments have huuuge details to them, research it bro.


for example, you can kill in self-defence or war.