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FatimaAsSideqah
02-12-2008, 06:41 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

CNN) -- Saudi Arabia has asked florists and gift shops to remove all red items until after Valentine's Day, calling the celebration of such a holiday a sin, local media reported Monday.

With a ban on red gift items over Valentine's Day in Saudi Arabia, a black market in red roses has flowered.

"As Muslims we shouldn't celebrate a non-Muslim celebration, especially this one that encourages immoral relations between unmarried men and women, " Sheikh Khaled Al-Dossari, a scholar in Islamic studies, told the Saudi Gazette, an English-language newspaper.

Every year, officials with the conservative Muslim kingdom's Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice clamp down on shops a few days before February 14, instructing them to remove red roses, red wrapping paper, gift boxes and teddy bears. On the eve of the holiday, they raid stores and seize symbols of love.

The virtue and vice squad is a police force of several thousand charged with, among other things, enforcing dress codes and segregating the sexes. Saudi Arabia, which follows a strict interpretation of Islam called Wahh abism, punishes unrelated women and men who mingle in public.

Ahmed Al-Omran, a university student in Riyadh, told CNN that the government decision will give the international media another reason to make fun of the Saudis "but I think that we got used to that by now."

"I think what they are doing is ridiculous," said Al-Omran, who maintains the blog 'Saudi Jeans.' "What the conservatives in this country need to learn is something called 'tolerance.' If they don't see the permissibility of celebrating such an occasion, then fine -- they should not celebrate it. But they have to know they have no right to impose their point of view on others."

Because of the ban on red roses, a black market has flowered ahead of Valentine's Day. Roses that normally go for five Saudi riyal ($1.30) fetch up to 30 riyal ($8) on February 14, the Saudi Gazette said.

"Sometimes we deliver the bouquets in the middle of the night or early morning, to avoid suspicion," one florist told the paper.

Saudi Arabia has often come under criticism for its treatment of women, most recently in a United Nations report that blasted the kingdom for widespread discrimination. Under Saudi law, women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery.

A businesswoman told the Times of London this month that she was detained and strip-searched by the religious police for holding a meeting in a coffee shop with male colleagues.

Two years ago, a teenager was raped by seven men who found her alone with a man unrelated to her. The government sentenced the 19-year-old woman to 200 lashes and six months in prison for being in the company of a man who wasn't a family member or her husband. She was later pardoned. The seven rapists were sentenced to two to nine years in prison.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/me...ine/index.html

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima
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mohsen1985
02-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Wish they'd do that here
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noorseeker
02-12-2008, 07:01 PM
And the problem is
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MaiCarInMtl
02-12-2008, 07:03 PM
I thought valentine's day was about love (never saw it as encouraging relations between unmarried people specifically). It doesn't even have to do with romantic love necessarily - I've received and given cards to my mom and dad.

But I do find it is overhyped - I hope people express the love they feel for the ones dear to them more than once a year.
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czgibson
02-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Greetings,

This is pretty hilarious, you have to admit. I never realised red wrapping paper, for instance, was such a threat to public morality!

The authorities have also created huge scope for profits for those who choose to ignore the ruling. Way to go! Let's create more criminals!

Peace
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root
02-12-2008, 07:32 PM
I ponder, perhaps the inclusion of this Christian occasion within Saudi should be permitted in the interest of multicultural and interfaith respect. Perhaps, it is unavoidable in Saudi that it will be celebrated. Then again, an Islamic country (I say that with a pinch of salt) banning un-islamic culture is the norm for Islamic countries. Only Christian dominated countries don't ban un-christian celebrations.

Ah well. I don't suppose they have a big immigration problem.
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czgibson
02-12-2008, 07:40 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by root
I don't suppose they have a big immigration problem.
Absolutely right!

It's a classic example of a paranoid state shooting itself in the foot yet again.

Peace
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krypton6
02-12-2008, 09:31 PM
^ Blaim the government (The)
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Noora
02-12-2008, 09:56 PM
thats just ridiculous, i think the saudis should focus on more important islamic issues, such as why our bro's and sisters are dying all over the world due to wars and not banning of flowers...
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sabah
02-12-2008, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Noora
thats just ridiculous, i think the saudis should focus on more important islamic issues, such as why our bro's and sisters are dying all over the world due to wars and not banning of flowers...
totally agree with u sis, the worlds going crackers ^o)
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Malaikah
02-13-2008, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by Noora
thats just ridiculous, i think the saudis should focus on more important islamic issues, such as why our bro's and sisters are dying all over the world due to wars and not banning of flowers...
:sl:

Just because they are focusing on this doesn't mean they can't focus on other things too. It's called multitasking! :D

Originally Posted by root
I ponder, perhaps the inclusion of this Christian occasion within Saudi should be permitted in the interest of multicultural and interfaith respect. Perhaps, it is unavoidable in Saudi that it will be celebrated. Then again, an Islamic country (I say that with a pinch of salt) banning un-islamic culture is the norm for Islamic countries. Only Christian dominated countries don't ban un-christian celebrations.
No it should not be included. If non-Muslims living in Saudi want to celebrate their holidays, fine, but it doesn't mean that Muslims should celebrate it too!

And its not about culture either - holidays like this in Islam are a religious thing, they aren't only cultural, that is what it matters. Making up holidays like this is not allowed.

We have our two special holidays - the two Eids. That is all we need.
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Isambard
02-13-2008, 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Just because they are focusing on this doesn't mean they can't focus on other things too. It's called multitasking! :D

Actually they cant. Policing flowers costs money and resources. What they are focusing on is simply stupid and wasteful.

No it should not be included. If non-Muslims living in Saudi want to celebrate their holidays, fine, but it doesn't mean that Muslims should celebrate it too!

And its not about culture either - holidays like this in Islam are a religious thing, they aren't only cultural, that is what it matters. Making up holidays like this is not allowed.

We have our two special holidays - the two Eids. That is all we need.
Now if only folks in the west got this msg, muslims workers can be more productive by eliminating those holidays.

An excellent system.

In regards to the topic at hand, its Saudi Arabia. Cant say this is surpising, granted its good for a laugh.
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Malaikah
02-13-2008, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Now if only folks in the west got this msg, muslims workers can be more productive by eliminating those holidays.
It is not our place or duty to eliminate such holidays from non-Muslims lands. It is their land and they are free to celebrate what they want. Just don't try to bring it to Muslim lands.

Actually they cant. Policing flowers costs money and resources. What they are focusing on is simply stupid and wasteful.
No one ever said a country must focus on only thing at a time! That is ridiculous!

While you might not think it is a big deal, Muslims do. This is our religion, so get over it and respect that.
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The_Prince
02-13-2008, 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by root
I ponder, perhaps the inclusion of this Christian occasion within Saudi should be permitted in the interest of multicultural and interfaith respect. Perhaps, it is unavoidable in Saudi that it will be celebrated. Then again, an Islamic country (I say that with a pinch of salt) banning un-islamic culture is the norm for Islamic countries. Only Christian dominated countries don't ban un-christian celebrations.

Ah well. I don't suppose they have a big immigration problem.

Muslims only have 2 celebrations, and that is eid al fitr, and eid al-adha, last i checked no western country recognizes these as holidays nor give Muslims time off. so what are you on about?

if that happened all of you people would go loony OHHHH NOW WE LET THEM CELEBRATE EID! WHAT NEXT! AHHHHHHHH!

ban valentine all the way, why do we need this silly day to fall in love and dandy? no such thing in Islam, in Islam every single day with your wife is a valentines day, not one day in february just out of no where you decide to buy roses and go out for dinner and all that garbage.

and yes valentines does lead to fornication and immorality, because it makes singles ask a certain girl they have a crush on out for a date, will you be my valentine??????????? and next thing their getting it on by the night, or end of the week. now you may disagree, but thats the Islamic prespective, so instead of comming here saying oh this is funny, or oh it makes us laugh respect the position and move on or try to rationally respond instead of simply laughing it off and saying oh those nutters!!!!!

it would really do the west good, because oh my the teen pregnancy rate in the west IS SKY HIGH!!!!!!! so i repeat it would do very good if you actually tried to rationally discuss these issues rather than say OH DEM **** CRAZY SAUDS!!!!!!!!!!
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ayesha309
02-13-2008, 03:13 AM
sis Malaikah I fully agree with you.
Allah constantly tells us in the Qur'an that there is a difference between the believers and the disbelievers and that these two paths should not be intermnigled. so perhaps thats why we shudn't celebrate valentines day, becuase we wud be following the disbelievers, and we need to follow the belivers path; the sunnats of the Prophets SAW.
and for logical purposes, honeslty you only celebrate your spouse's love once a year??? thats rediculous!
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Isambard
02-13-2008, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
It is not our place or duty to eliminate such holidays from non-Muslims lands. It is their land and they are free to celebrate what they want. Just don't try to bring it to Muslim lands.

Im referring to non-muslim lands eliminating muslim holidays. I assume thats okay as well correct?

No one ever said a country must focus on only thing at a time! That is ridiculous!

While you might not think it is a big deal, Muslims do. This is our religion, so get over it and respect that.
No, but keeping in mind that gov't resources are finite, blowing them of something frivilous like getting rid of red colours and roses is just stupid.

My critisism has nothing to do with your religion, but has it everything to do with stupid economic planning (assuming there is a plan).
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Malaikah
02-13-2008, 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
No, but keeping in mind that gov't resources are finite, blowing them of something frivilous like getting rid of red colours and roses is just stupid.
Well, that is your opinion.

Im referring to non-muslim lands eliminating muslim holidays. I assume thats okay as well correct?
No! First of all, Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country which acts in accordance to Islam and as far as I know does not prohibit non-Muslims from celebrating their own holidays.

Now I would have a big issue with non-Muslim (i.e. secular/Western) lands forbidding Muslim holidays because it is pure discrimination if they forbid only Muslim holidays and allow holidays of all other religions!

If we were talking about Christian (non-secular) countries, then I would not have an issue with them banning non-Muslim from celebrating Muslim holidays, as long as they don't ban Muslims from celebrating it.

Anyway, Valentines Day isn't a sacred religious holiday for anyone so I don't see the validity of the comparison.
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NoWingedAngel
02-13-2008, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
It is not our place or duty to eliminate such holidays from non-Muslims lands. It is their land and they are free to celebrate what they want. Just don't try to bring it to Muslim lands.
Right. So it's okay for Christian or secular nations to ban Muslim themed items?

Right, gotcha.
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NoWingedAngel
02-13-2008, 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
If we were talking about Christian (non-secular) countries, then I would not have an issue with them banning non-Muslim from celebrating Muslim holidays, as long as they don't ban Muslims from celebrating it.
Now, let's be clear here.

You're saying that it's okay for the Vatican to not only ban Islamic themed holiday items, but also everything of a certain color, yes?

Like, banning all green items for example?

Anyway, Valentines Day isn't a sacred religious holiday for anyone so I don't see the validity of the comparison.
Its roots are based upon two different Christian martyrs.
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adeeb
02-13-2008, 03:50 AM
praise God alhamdulillah...saudi banned all valentine's thing that has nothing to do with islam.

islamic government should do it wherever they are....

we have to stay away from jahiliyyah ritual...

it has connection with Christian history and we should stay away from it...
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Isambard
02-13-2008, 04:22 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Well, that is your opinion.

That gov't resources are finite? No, its basic economics.

No! First of all, Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country which acts in accordance to Islam and as far as I know does not prohibit non-Muslims from celebrating their own holidays.

Now I would have a big issue with non-Muslim (i.e. secular/Western) lands forbidding Muslim holidays because it is pure discrimination if they forbid only Muslim holidays and allow holidays of all other religions!

If we were talking about Christian (non-secular) countries, then I would not have an issue with them banning non-Muslim from celebrating Muslim holidays, as long as they don't ban Muslims from celebrating it.

Anyway, Valentines Day isn't a sacred religious holiday for anyone so I don't see the validity of the comparison.
Saudi Arabia bans bibles. How much would you like to bet they arnt to happy about letting non-muslims celebrate their holidays?
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Malaikah
02-13-2008, 04:45 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Saudi Arabia bans bibles. How much would you like to bet they arnt to happy about letting non-muslims celebrate their holidays?
Do they ban Christians from owning bibles too?
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Roasted Cashew
02-13-2008, 05:30 AM
Originally Posted by NoWingedAngel
Now, let's be clear here.

You're saying that it's okay for the Vatican to not only ban Islamic themed holiday items, but also everything of a certain color, yes?

Like, banning all green items for example?



Its roots are based upon two different Christian martyrs.
Valentine Day was a Pagan Celebration and not a Christian Celebration.

Where did Valentine's Day come
from?

There are many traditions about its origin, but the most authentic
seems to be the one from Encyclopaedia Britannica that says that this
day has nothing to do with Saint Valentine, instead it is related to
the Roman pagan festival of their god, Lupercalia.

It was celebrated on 15th February and in honour of the goddess Juno
Februata, the names of girls were placed in an urn and the men would
draw out the name of a girl at random who would then become their
date for the remaining festival.

When Christianity came to Rome, they tried to Christianize this
obscene yet popular festival by replacing the names of girls by those
of saints.
The men were then supposed to emulate the saint, whose
name they drew, for the rest of the year. However this attempt proved
unsuccessful and the use of girls' names returned.

Many associated it with Cupid (the virtually naked god of love), who
is the central character of Valentine's Day paraphernalia, who shoots
people with his arrows to make them fall in love. His mother is said
to be Venus (goddess of love) and apparently the rose was her
favourite flower.

Another tradition speaks of a Saint Valentine who was killed on 14th
Feb. by Emperor Claudius for secretly arranging the marriages of his
soldiers whom he had banned from marriage. The Bishop is said to have
fallen in love with the jailer's daughter during his imprisonment and
wrote her a letter signed `Your Valentine', which became a tradition
for people to come. In 496 Pope Gelasius officially replaced the
pagan festival of 15th Feb with St Valentine's Day on14th Feb.




I am glad that they banned it. This practice goes against teachings of Islam and has no place in our religion. It promotes indecency, free mixing and premartial-sex. And if it's all about love, WE MUSLIMS DON"T NEED A SPECIAL DAY TO TELL HOME MUCH WE LOVE OUR SPOUSES OR PARENTS!

EDIT: Dude, I thought they banned Valentine's day but instead they banned red stuff. I should have read better. But that is an indirect approach I guess. Anyway, Saudis do need to look at they way they mistreat women.
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wilberhum
02-13-2008, 10:31 AM
How Islamic? Ban love.
I guess love is "a Pagan Celebration". :hiding:

Down with love. :hmm:
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Noora
02-13-2008, 11:25 AM
malikah..if they were multi tasking as you say then why are the muslim arabs in the state they are in...personally when i see saudis shaking hands with bush for so called treaties(and we all know the only deals bush shakes hands to are the ones that benefit him, not the saudis, otherwise he calls them terrorists, then i will respect their ban of flowers....

lets focus in the big issues and not the small ones...

banning and destroying flowers is wasteful...they can ban the holiday but to resort to destroying flowers is wasteful, and correct me if i am wrong, isnt that wasteful in islam...

personally i practice valentines day because i choose to follow allahs commands, even when i was living in the west, the best test to faith is to be exposed to haram and reject if for the sake of allah, but destroying all the flowers is just plain stupid, besides valentines day is just commercialised these days and its not worth it....
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FatimaAsSideqah
02-13-2008, 11:46 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers" [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

Among the most important symbols of this holiday:

1 – Expressing joy and happiness on this occasion, as on their other major festivals.

2 – Exchanging red roses, which are an expression of love, the “spiritual love” of the pagans or the “love” of the Christians. Hence it is known to them as the Feast of Lovers.

3 – The sending of greetings cards. On some of these cards are pictures of “Cupid”, who appears as a child with two wings, carrying a bow and arrows. This was the god of love of the pagan Romans – exalted be Allah far above their fabrications and their association of others with Him.

4 – Exchange of words of love and desire in the greetings cards which they send to one another, in verse, prose and short phrases. Some of the cards contain comical pictures and funny words, and they often contain the phrase “be my Valentine”. This represents the Christian concept of this festival after it was taken from the pagan concept.

5 – In many western countries, parties are held during the day and in the evening, where there is mixing of men and women, and dancing. Many of them send gifts such as roses and boxes of chocolates to their wives, friends and those whom they love.

Anyone who looks at what is said above about the myths surrounding this pagan festival will clearly understand the following:

Firstly: That its origins lie in the pagan beliefs of the Romans, where it was an expression of the spiritual love of the idols which they used to worship instead of Allah. Whoever celebrates it is celebrating an occasion of shirk on which the idols are venerated. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

Secondly: That the development of this festival among the Romans was connected to myths and legends which no sound mind can accept, let alone the mind of the Muslim who believes in Allah and His Messengers (peace be upon them). Can anyone of sound mind believe that a she-wolf suckled the founder of the city of Rome and gave him strength and wisdom. Moreover, these myths go against the belief (‘aqeedah) of the Muslim because the One Who bestows strength and wisdom is the Creator, may He be glorified and exalted, not the milk of a she- wolf! The same applies to the myth that their idols could protect them from evil or keep wolves away from their flocks.

Thirdly: Among the ugly rituals of the Romans on this day was the sacrifice of a dog and a goat, the daubing of their blood onto two youths then washing the blood off with milk, etc… This is something that would cause revulsion in anyone of a sound nature, and it is unacceptable to the sound mind.

Fourthly: The connection between Saint Valentine and this festival has been questioned by many sources, and it considered to be far from definite. It would have been better for the Christians to reject this pagan festival in which they imitated the pagans. So how about us Muslims, who are commanded to be different from the Christians and the pagans before them?

Fifthly: this festival was denounced by the Christian clergy in Italy, the bastion of Catholicism, because it was spreading bad attitudes and having an adverse effect on the minds of young men and women. So it is better for the Muslims to reject it, warn others against it and to fulfil their duty towards it of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil.

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/valentinesday.htm

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima
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guyabano
02-13-2008, 11:51 AM
Some here must lead an very trist life, no music, no love, no flowers, no holidays, no nothing... oh boy.
I like words like these: Ban everything non-islamic on islamic ground, but otherside, go on barricades when one try to ban headscarfs in a public school in a christian/secular country.
This gave me a good chuckle, hrhrhrhrhr !!

Peace
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Muezzin
02-13-2008, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
My sentiments exactly.

People getting all hot and bothered about this, on both sides of the fence, truly need to lighten up.

Although in my view, Valentine's Day stopped being about love and romance and assorted mush and started being about big business at just about the same time Hallmark set up shop.
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S_87
02-13-2008, 12:23 PM
Alhumdulillah they are doing this :)

wilberhum love is to be shown everyday not just on 14th february. why single it out for one day
in islam love should be exspressed all the time. gifts should be brought all the time. not just one day.
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------
02-13-2008, 01:44 PM
:salamext:

Saudi rocks.
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crayon
02-13-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Some here must lead an very trist life, no music, no love, no flowers, no holidays, no nothing... oh boy.
No music, yes.
The rest of the things however, we enjoy very much. Just because we don't choose a specific day to celebrate the love we have with our husbands/wives/mothers/fathers/etc., doesn't mean we don't.
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crayon
02-13-2008, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

Saudi rocks.
Okay, I have an idea! You come here, and I'll go wherever you are. Okay?!?!:D lol
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Noora
02-13-2008, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Some here must lead an very trist life, no music, no love, no flowers, no holidays, no nothing... oh boy.
I like words like these: Ban everything non-islamic on islamic ground, but otherside, go on barricades when one try to ban headscarfs in a public school in a christian/secular country.
This gave me a good chuckle, hrhrhrhrhr !!

Peace
you obviously need to open your mind and learn how to read and interptet properly before you post? Who said anything about banning holidays, flowers , love, etc etc...another one who takes one part of a post and turns in into thier own predjudice..geez...
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aamirsaab
02-13-2008, 02:01 PM
:sl:
Saudi has done a lot of stupid things.
Banning red things on V day is one of them.


I like certain concepts of V day, such as being nice to others around you. However, I'd much rather have that EVERY day of the year, as opposed to 364 days of depression and 1 day of chocolates and cards. Still I guess 1 day of happiness is better than none.

I'm certain I can make a satirical joke about V Day involving me, but I'm unable to do so. Perhaps I'm in need of some chocolates and cards.
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Isambard
02-13-2008, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Do they ban Christians from owning bibles too?
Found it

"Saudi Arabia prohibits public non-Muslim religious activities. Non-Muslim worshipers risk arrest, imprisonment, lashing, deportation, and sometimes torture for engaging in overt religious activity that attracts official attention.

The Government has stated publicly, including before the U.N. Committee on Human Rights in Geneva, that its policy is to protect the right of non-Muslims to worship privately. However, non-Muslim organizations have claimed that there are no explicit guidelines for distinguishing between public and private worship, such as the number of persons permitted to attend and the types of locations that are acceptable. Such lack of clarity, as well as instances of arbitrary enforcement by the authorities, obliges most non-Muslims to worship in such a manner as to avoid discovery. Those detained for non-Muslim worship almost always are deported by authorities after sometimes lengthy periods of arrest during investigation. In some cases, they also are sentenced to receive lashes prior to deportation.

The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services, although some come under other auspices and perform religious functions in secret. Such restrictions make it very difficult for most non-Muslims to maintain contact with clergymen and attend services. Catholics and Orthodox Christians, who require a priest on a regular basis to receive the sacraments required by their faith, particularly are affected."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_...igious_freedom

They confiscate bibles and torahs from tourists and get rid of any found.

So Ive come to two conclusions.
Saudi Arabia is a. incredibly wasteful, and
b. Fans of Saudi are the biggest hypocrites.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-13-2008, 04:02 PM
lol in all honesty i cant see how this will prevent the arabs from celebrating valentines. They can still do it with other colors, inshaAllaah its a step though.


lol its really funny


Assalamu Alaikum
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crayon
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
Oh, just to add something. Like 99% of westerners/non muslims live in compounds. Saudi laws don't apply in these compounds. And in some private schools as well. They celebrate valentines day, christmas, halloween, easter, all that. They have dances, you can go swimming at the pool in a swimsuit, teenagers have parties.Compounds are like a little bit of the west in saudi.
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NoWingedAngel
02-13-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
Valentine Day was a Pagan Celebration and not a Christian Celebration.
Okay, fair enough. Let's say that it used to be a Pagan holiday and was usurped by Christianity.

So, you'll of course include circumambulation of the Ka'ba and its housing of the idols of Pagan Arabia until the usurpation of of it by the Prophet and re-dedication of it to Allah to be the exact same thing, right?

If not, then you aren't being consistent.[/QUOTE]
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crayon
02-13-2008, 05:14 PM
How is that the same thing? With valentines it's pagan-chrisitian. With the ka'abah it's muslim-pagan-muslim. The muslims were simply correcting what the pagans had done. It's not as if valentines day was originally a chrisitan holiday, then it became pagan, then christian again.

But seriously, though, what does this even have to do with anything? Does anyone even consider valentines day a chrisitan holiday? It's like saying halloween or mother's day are chrisitan holidays; they're not.
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smile
02-13-2008, 05:34 PM
i think that the red wrapping thing is silly
but i can understand why they want to do that
it is in a muslim country after all
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Aishaa
02-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Everyone has a right to celebrate what they wish and in which Faith they choose,

However, I think the Christian link to Valentines day has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus or his teachings.
Even today, people buy cards, send flowers, just because its the day to do it.

Ask the majority of people who participate in Valentines day and they'll probably tell you that they didn't even know that it was linked to Christianity at all!

If people do not wish to get involved. ..that is of course thier right.to refrain, dont buy the card, dont send anything, just ignore it... simple really.
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S_87
02-13-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by NoWingedAngel
Okay, fair enough. Let's say that it used to be a Pagan holiday and was usurped by Christianity.

So, you'll of course include circumambulation of the Ka'ba and its housing of the idols of Pagan Arabia until the usurpation of of it by the Prophet and re-dedication of it to Allah to be the exact same thing, right?

If not, then you aren't being consistent.
the kabah was built by Abraham peace be upon him the father of hanifiya

Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
2:125

Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
22:26
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Isambard
02-13-2008, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by amani
the kabah was built by Abraham peace be upon him the father of hanifiya

Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
2:125

Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
22:26
You realize there quite a few christians who say the same about their holidays right?

Redacting history doesnt make you correct.
Reply

The_Prince
02-13-2008, 09:21 PM
i love this, how saudia has riled up all these stupid Islamophobes! they are so mad because they are used to abusing and oppresing Muslims in their countries, but now they have one of their stupid holidays being banned and completly knocked out and their all nagging!

good job saudia.
Reply

The_Prince
02-13-2008, 09:25 PM
heres my plan for valentines:

-go to university

-go set a bank account up

-go to the council tax office and tell them i am exempt since i am a student

-go buy lunch and dinner from the lebanease place

-come home and eat my lunch like at 6

-come on the internet

-write some articles for my website

-update my website

-prepare some material for my public debates in march.

-eat dinner sometime at night

-go sleep
Reply

Isambard
02-13-2008, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
i love this, how saudia has riled up all these stupid Islamophobes! they are so mad because they are used to abusing and oppresing Muslims in their countries, but now they have one of their stupid holidays being banned and completly knocked out and their all nagging!

good job saudia.
Who are these invisible people you are referring to?
Reply

The_Prince
02-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Who are these invisible people you are referring to?
gaybano. you might be one too
Reply

aadil77
02-13-2008, 09:56 PM
:sl:

Thank God atleast Saudi is free from this crap:thumbs_up, Valentines day promotes alot of **** between the opposite genders and i'm glad saudi hushes up the source of it,
I can imagine that pakistan is probably doing the total opposite
Reply

NoWingedAngel
02-13-2008, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
i love this, how saudia has riled up all these stupid Islamophobes! they are so mad because they are used to abusing and oppresing Muslims in their countries, but now they have one of their stupid holidays being banned and completly knocked out and their all nagging!

good job saudia.
Oh yeah... Let me tell you folks.

There is absolutely nothing better than waking up, having a good stretch, a shower and breakfast, and putting in a hard day's work of abusing and oppressing some Muslims.

I happen to think a lot of Islam is quite beautiful, so how about you stop with your stereotyping since you'd cry to high Heaven if the situation was reversed.

Now... where did I put that roll-eyes smiley...

Oh, here it is.

Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2008, 10:06 PM
Since when was VD a Christian celebration?

Though I think the King should be paying more attention to what THEY get upto behind closed doors! Practice what you preach the hypocrites. they drink, smoke, fornicate like animals, in the land of the Kaaba!
Reply

Isambard
02-13-2008, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
gaybano. you might be one too
O yeah, I forgot about my morning ritual. God knows I cant start my day without slapping muslim children and then plotting ways to cause strife in the ummah:heated:
Reply

AntiKarateKid
02-13-2008, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
O yeah, I forgot about my morning ritual. God knows I cant start my day without slapping muslim children and then plotting ways to cause strife in the ummah:heated:
You do realize that when the Quran warns us of disbelievers it means that we avoid your lifestyle and theology and keep to the ways that Prophet Muahhamd ( pbuh) gave us.We will almost never be as pious and good as the Prophet BUT at least Muslims have the ability to follow what he taught instead of denying it like you. Now, if I had to choose between a Muslim who sins all the time, and an atheist who abstains from sinning, we are obliged to choose the atheist because his actions are better than the Muslims. However, an "good" atheist will never be on par with a true Muslim who follows the lifestyle of the Prophet ( pbuh). Your exaggerated statements are out of context and serve only to humor yourself and convey nothing about reality.


On topic though, I am in college right now and let me tell you. Here, Valentines day is all about giving a girl a present so she can go to bed with you. It is the perfect opportunity for people of both genders to make bold moves on the opposite sex. Love, as someone else pointed out, is to be shown everyday. But these days Valentines Day = Plan B Pill Day.
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2008, 10:34 PM
Many people I know say we should ban VD here. it's just people making money for no reason whatsoever. Just like Mothers day, fathers day. it's rubbish!
Reply

AntiKarateKid
02-13-2008, 10:38 PM
Indeed it is rubbish. I know people who will abstain from contacting their parents until Mother or Fathers day. It has made it so that they only need to be with their parents and love them once a year.
Reply

snakelegs
02-14-2008, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Many people I know say we should ban VD here. it's just people making money for no reason whatsoever. Just like Mothers day, fathers day. it's rubbish!
the thing is why should it even be necessary to ban it? why don't people have enough sense not to fall for the whole consumer thing? i agree it's rubbish - all you have to do is not participate. i don't celebrate any of the consumer holidays and yeah, people think it's strange. i wish more people would stop.
Reply

czgibson
02-14-2008, 12:53 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by The_Prince
i love this, how saudia has riled up all these stupid Islamophobes! they are so mad because they are used to abusing and oppresing Muslims in their countries, but now they have one of their stupid holidays being banned and completly knocked out and their all nagging!

good job saudia.
Who's getting riled? All I see is the majority of people, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, laughing voluminously at a cringingly stupid decision.

Peace
Reply

The_Prince
02-14-2008, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



Who's getting riled? All I see is the majority of people, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, laughing voluminously at a cringingly stupid decision.

Peace
im not laughing
Reply

Malaikah
02-14-2008, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Who's getting riled? All I see is the majority of people, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, laughing voluminously at a cringingly stupid decision.
Laugh all you want, I can honestly say I am very used to non-Muslims (and even ignorant Muslims) making fun of us and our religion, it is nothing new. We are all going to meet our Lord one day and then we will know who is right and who was wrong.
Reply

czgibson
02-14-2008, 01:25 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Laugh all you want, I can honestly say I am very used to non-Muslims (and even ignorant Muslims) making fun of us and our religion, it is nothing new. We are all going to meet our Lord one day and then we will know who is right and who was wrong.
Thanks for being patronising. I always love that. :giggling:

Look, it's a stupid decision: one that shows paranoia and weakness. If you can't see that, fair enough - I'm not trying to convince you. You can believe whatever you like.

Peace
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-14-2008, 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Thanks for being patronising. I always love that. :giggling:

Look, it's a stupid decision: one that shows paranoia and weakness. If you can't see that, fair enough - I'm not trying to convince you. You can believe whatever you like.

Peace
What is stupid, paranoia, and weak about it. Indeed you can believe whatever you like but at least let it be close to reality.
Reply

Malaikah
02-14-2008, 03:16 AM
I didn't intend to be patronizing. You have your view of things, I have mine.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-14-2008, 03:23 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
You realize there quite a few christians who say the same about their holidays right?

Redacting history doesnt make you correct.
I don't realize anything. And to the original author of the comment who accused me of not being consistent, it's our believe that Kaabah was built by Abraham. Is it the believe of Christians that that celebration of Valentine Day was once Christian but later hijacked by Pagans and now it's back in their hands. NO!
Reply

Isambard
02-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
I don't realize anything. And to the original author of the comment who accused me of not being consistent, it's our believe that Kaabah was built by Abraham. Is it the believe of Christians that that celebration of Valentine Day was once Christian but later hijacked by Pagans and now it's back in their hands. NO!
Quite a number of christians ignorethe fact that their holidays were once pagan holidays and say they were always christian.

Muslims and (some) christians redact history to suit your purposes.
Reply

Isambard
02-14-2008, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
You do realize that when the Quran warns us of disbelievers it means that we avoid your lifestyle and theology and keep to the ways that Prophet Muahhamd ( pbuh) gave us.We will almost never be as pious and good as the Prophet BUT at least Muslims have the ability to follow what he taught instead of denying it like you. Now, if I had to choose between a Muslim who sins all the time, and an atheist who abstains from sinning, we are obliged to choose the atheist because his actions are better than the Muslims. However, an "good" atheist will never be on par with a true Muslim who follows the lifestyle of the Prophet ( pbuh). Your exaggerated statements are out of context and serve only to humor yourself and convey nothing about reality.
Lordy knows a lifestyle around questioning what is front of me and not simply taking others ppls' word for things is so terrible.

Everyone knows the best approach when dealing with with complicated situation is to close your eyes and do some wishful thinking:blind:

Now did your response have a point or what it merely a jab for not being able rebuttle my earlier comments for the economic reasons why the Saudi gov't is run my monkies? Or that fans are Saudi on this board are hypocrites?
Reply

wilberhum
02-14-2008, 09:27 PM
Pagan or not, I hope each and everyone of you are loved.
Reply

ayesha309
02-15-2008, 02:43 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Pagan or not, I hope each and everyone of you are loved.
loved by God. thats the most important thing we need; to love Allah and to behave in such a way that He will love us back
Reply

thirdwatch512
02-15-2008, 03:11 AM
I think the Saudi government went way too far to do such. But hey, it is not my government, and if that is what the people want, then props to them!
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SirZubair
02-15-2008, 03:27 AM
Bloomin' Saudis.. ;D
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Tania
02-15-2008, 09:03 AM
Its so useless what they are doing :D - only amusing others.
Reply

crayon
02-15-2008, 09:51 AM
And just to give an example that you can celebrate it anyway, there was a huge valentines day party in my compound's rec room yesterday.
Reply

Isambard
02-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Most people read 1984 for a grim story of oppression loss of individuality.

The Saudis read 1984 for inspiration
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Uthman
02-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Most people read 1984 for a grim story of oppression loss of individuality.

The Saudis read 1984 for inspiration

Funny guy!

Haha!
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
02-15-2008, 03:51 PM
:salamext:

I don't really see this thread running in any beneficial direction. I can understand why non-Muslims would revile the Muslim rulers, but I will ask the Muslims here to remember that it is not from the Sunnah to revile or insult the Muslim rulers - be they righteous or sinful - especially in public. But rather it is the position of the Scholars to correct them where they have erred.

Ziyaad ibn Kusaib al-Adawiyy said, “I was with Aboo Bakrah (radhiyAllaahu 'anhu) beneath the minbar (pulpit) of Ibn Aamir. He was giving a speech and was wearing a fine garment. So Aboo Bilaal said, ‘Look at our ameer wearing the garment of the disobedient.’ Then Aboo Bakrah said, “Be silent. I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) say, ‘Whoever demeans the sultaan (ruler) of Allaah upon the earth Allaah will humiliate him.”
Sunan of at-Tirmidhee, no. 2225

Anas ibn Maalik (radhiyAllaahu 'anhu) said, “The senior amongst the Companions of Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) forbade us (saying), ‘Do not revile your Rulers (Umaraa), not act dishonestly with them, nor hate them and have taqwaa of Allaah and be patient — for verily the matter is close (at hand).”
As-Sunnah of Ibn Abee ‘Aasim, 2/488

Ibn Abee Shaibah (rahimahumullah) said, “Ibn ‘Uyainah narrated to us from Ibraaheem ibn Maisarah from Taawoos who said, ‘The Rulers were mentioned in the presence of Ibn ‘Abbaas and a man amongst them began to censure them. He continued to arrogate himself, standing and stretching out his neck in doing this until I did not see in the House (i.e., the Haram) a man taller than him. Then I heard Ibn ‘Abbaas say, ‘Do not make yourself a trial for a wrongdoing people.’ Then the man constricted himself and I did not see in the House a man shorter than him.”
In his Musannaf, 15/75

Please read this.

Here is the ruling on Valentine's Day:

Ruling on Valentine’s Day by Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen


Question:

In the recent times there has spread the celebrating of Eid ul-Hubb (Valentine’s Day) particularly among the female students. And it is a holiday from the holidays of the Christians, and the clothing will be completely in red garments and shoes, and they exchange red flowers with each other. We hope from your eminence an explanation of the ruling of celebrating the likes of this holiday. What is your advice to Muslims regarding the likes of these affairs, and may Allaah preserve you and protect you?

Answer:

In the Name of Allaah, the Most Merciful, the Giver of Mercy Wa alaykumus-salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

Celebrating the Holiday of Love (i.e. Valentine’s Day) is not permissible for various reasons. The first: That is an innovated holiday that has no basis for it in the Sharee’ah. The second: That it calls to passion and infatuation. The third: That it calls to busying the heart with the likes of these affairs that are trivial and opposed to the guidance of the Righteous Predecessors (As-Salaf us-Saalih), may Allaah be pleased with them. So it is not permissible to introduce on this day (i.e. Valentine’s Day) anything from the aspects of holiday celebrating, regardless of whether it is foods, or drinks, or clothing, or exchanging gifts, or other than that.

It is incumbent upon the Muslim to be distinguished and noble with his religion, and that he not be a characterless person who follows everyone who cries out. I ask Allaah, the Most High, to protect the Muslims from all of the trials, whatever is apparent or hidden of them, and that He guards over us with His care and His aid.

Written by Muhammad Saalih Al-Uthaymeen on 5/11/1420 hijri.

Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Majmoo’ Rasaa’il wa Fataawaa Ash-Shaikh Muhammad bin Saalih Al-Uthaymeen

http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=830

:threadclo
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