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snakelegs
02-14-2008, 07:04 AM
i posted this last week but the last crash ate it.
i know ahl-e-kitaab is a legal status.
i am curious about it because most christians could be considered mushirkin - how are they any different from other mushirkin and why the special status?
thanks.
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snakelegs
02-19-2008, 09:13 PM
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sur
02-20-2008, 12:17 AM
Ahl-e-Kitaab / ppl of Book(POB) refer to ppl who were given scriptures before Qur'aan. Irrespective of fact whether those scriptures r in true form or fiddled with.


Being Mushrik is a seperate issue. Like a Doctor can be male or female. Similarly POB can be a Mushrik or a non-Mushrik. Even a Muslim can be a Mushrik that's why Prophet Muhammad(saw) said in Hadees that "Any one of my followers who died without doing Shirk..............." So this proves that even followers of Muhammad can commit Shirk.


In another post of mine i proved that all muslims who seek intercession of "Dead" like of "Ali(ra)" or of "Sufis" or even of Prophet Muhammad(saww) etc etc, ALL r commitig shirk.


So POB can be non-Mushrik e.g.,
(Out of believers of Eesa/Jesus):- Unitarian christians, Sabians, Arians, Messianic Jews
& Jews(Rejectors of Eesa).


& POB can be Mushrik like Trinitarian Christians.


Like scriptures of Hindus stress on ONEness of God Almighty, still they worship idols, similarly OT & NT stress on ONEness of God still some follow that rightly while others(Trinitarians) take things metaphorical, Literally, that too in selective cases only. e.g., bible calls son of god to many prophets & angels etc etc, but Trinitarians take it literally ONLY for Eesa.


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Just by the way; Quran says in one place that we can Marry "Chaste" women out of POB; while in a prior verse Quran says that we should NOT marry "Mushrikeen & Mushrikaat" (Mushrik men & mushrik women).


So to marry a "Trinitarian" either we'll have to believe that they do NOT commit shirk, or we'll have to change definition of "Mushrik".


Another thing is that word(Muhsinaat) translated as "Chaste women" also means "Righteous/Virtuous women". So this translation implies that "Righteous" will be those out of POB who don't commit shirk.!!!!!
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sur
02-21-2008, 01:38 AM
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snakelegs
02-21-2008, 01:40 AM
thanks for your answer - it's something i've been wondering about. so a trinitarian christian would be no different from a non-christian mushirk as far as marriage is concerned. but they are still counted as POB.
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sur
02-21-2008, 06:29 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
thanks for your answer - it's something i've been wondering about. so a trinitarian christian would be no different from a non-christian mushirk as far as marriage is concerned. but they are still counted as POB.
yes & this is evident by this Hadees:-

Bukhari:63:209.:-
Narated By Nafi' : Whenever Ibn 'Umar was asked about marrying a Christian lady or a Jewess, he would say: "Allah has made it unlawful for the believers to marry ladies who ascribe partners in worship to Allah, and I do not know of a greater thing, as regards to ascribing partners in worship, etc. to Allah, than that a lady should say that Jesus is her Lord although he is just one of Allah's slaves."
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snakelegs
02-21-2008, 06:51 AM
makes sense - thanks again.
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Vedad
02-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Bismillah

Salam aleykum

Even a Muslim can be a Mushrik that's why Prophet Muhammad(saw) said in Hadees that "Any one of my followers who died without doing Shirk..............." So this proves that even followers of Muhammad can commit Shirk.
Are you sure?

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] said:

With regard to apostasy from Islam, whereby a person becomes a kaafir, whether a mushrik or a Jew or Christian, if he dies in that state then all his good deeds will be wiped out, according to scholarly consensus, as the Qur’aan says in more than one place. For example Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter”

[al-Baqarah 2:217]

“And whosoever disbelieves in Faith, [i.e. in the Oneness of Allaah and in all the other Articles of Faith i.e. His (Allaah’s) Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work”

[al-Maa’idah 5:5]

“But if they had joined in worship others with Allaah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them”

[al-An’aam 6:88]

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/257, 268)
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=200...k%20muslim

The person that left islam is not considered muslim anymore but mushrik, because a Muslim will go to Jannah even if he was the biggest of sinners at the end but the mushrik stays in jahannam forever.

The Prophet said, "Gabriel said to me, 'Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire)." The Prophet asked. "Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?" He replied, "Even then." [Bukhari]

This does not make the mushrik a muslim nor muslim a mushrik!


You probably meant but jsut for clarification wa Allahu alem.

Salam Aleykum
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sur
02-24-2008, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Vedad
Bismillah

Salam aleykum



Are you sure?

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] said:
.
.
.

You probably meant but jsut for clarification wa Allahu alem.

Salam Aleykum
Wasalaaam

Instead of word "Muslim", i should have used "Follower of Prophet Muhammad(saw)" as Angel said to prophet "Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise...."


i.e, many say they are muslims and follow Quran -&- Sunnah, BUT actually they seek intercession of dead or do other "Shirk-full" acts.
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Vedad
02-24-2008, 09:40 AM
wa Aleykum Salam

Yes, those muslims who died and did not become murtads after being muslims, that is, whichever muslim dies as a muslim will not enter hell, agree? As we know that mushriks (those who associate others with Allah) are not Muslims (those who submit to Allah) since shirk is the opposite to tawheed. And kufr opposite of Islam.

Those who die in a state of Islam.

wa Allahu Alem
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