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glo
03-30-2008, 08:20 PM
Hi all.

I am not sure whether this post belongs here or in the Science section, but I will post it here to start with.

Does anybody know about/understand the concept/theory of parallel universes?
If so, could you explain it to me in (fairly) simple terms?


Thank you. :)
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glo
04-01-2008, 11:24 AM
Thank you for appoving this thread.
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Uthman
04-01-2008, 11:27 AM
Have you tried the wikipedia article?

But then again; you did ask for it in simple terms. I can't help you much I'm afraid, but I have subscribed to this thread. I find this to be a very interesting topic.
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'Abd al-Baari
04-01-2008, 01:35 PM
This might be an interersting read too :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...unitrans.shtml

Peace, :shade:
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Muezzin
04-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Might also want to Google 'Holographic Universe'. I'm not saying it's accurate, agreed-upon pseudo-science, but it is very fascinating. Kind of like mood rings.

Also, you might want to watch 'The Matrix' a couple of times, just because.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-01-2008, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Umayr
This might be an interersting read too :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...unitrans.shtml

Peace, :shade:
how accurate is this?

its AMAZINGLY GRIPPINGLY interesting!
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johan
04-01-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Ibn Umayr
This might be an interersting read too :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...unitrans.shtml

Peace, :shade:
:sl:
after reading the very long post, i kinda thought that defining the time as being able to have negative values is something that contradicts my belief.

my "instincts" says :
1. that what exists before t 0 is out of the question and undefinable.
2. that t is not limitless, but it has bounds and certain constant threshold
3. So that -~ < t < +~ is not at all the same as 0 < t < k where t and k are certain positive integer and the latter is a constant one.
4. this t boundary defines the dimension of time.
5. t is like electric current flowing one way from one side of plate (0) to the other (k) via an alternator (the illusion of time); theres only one way in a normal condition but provided enough energy you could reverse flow the time(see the history of time used later in judgment day). And the energy required to reverse flow the time is equal to the energy of the creation itself (only the creator can do it).

i have no idea how to apply those "instincts" to the M-theory..:D

as for the parallel world, I have no idea whether it contradicts in anyway with religious beliefs of any kind of religion?? :-/

I would just think of my other self in the parallel world as my twin brother, who happens to have his own responsibility and life line..if he was to exist..

:w:
regards,
Abu 'Ammar
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glo
04-01-2008, 04:24 PM
Thanks, guys ... although I feel more confused than ever now ... :D

Let us assume that there are parallel universes ... does the theory say that we all live in each of those universes? I.e. there would be a glo1, glo2, glo3 ... glo infinite???
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johan
04-01-2008, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Thanks, guys ... although I feel more confused than ever now ... :D

Let us assume that there are parallel universes ... does the theory say that we all live in each of those universes? I.e. there would be a glo1, glo2, glo3 ... glo infinite???
according to the article the parallel world could even be a world with totally different physical laws than that what we have right now..

so i think i could safely infer that if our "existance" in this world has a direct correlation with that exact parallel world, we would probably be half dead by now cause we would exist (in our world) but at the same time(in that parallel world) not exist...

so i think.. my other self in the parallel world is just like my twin brother, who happens to have his own "existance" (life line), "awareness" and "will" hence responsibility.. if he was to ever exist..
..

regards,
Abu 'Ammar
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barney
04-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Hi all.


Does anybody know about/understand the concept/theory of parallel universes?
If so, could you explain it to me in (fairly) simple terms?


Thank you. :)
No Problem: Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kP1Pe3hAG8
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glo
04-01-2008, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by barney
LOL

Thanks, barney ... I think now I get it! :D
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'Abd al-Baari
04-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
how accurate is this?

its AMAZINGLY GRIPPINGLY interesting!
Assalamu Alaykum,

I have no idea akhee :-[
I just did a search on Google :D

WaAlaykumus Salaam Warahmatullah
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Junon
02-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Salaam

I know its an old post, but these two videos should be helpful in clarifying the concept and ideas of the parallel universes

What about Multiverses and Parallel Universes due to Chance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK-X3x9tyqY

Are We a Part of Parallel Universes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd-xi...eature=related
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CosmicPathos
02-27-2010, 04:37 AM
The supposed existence of multiple universes is based on pseudo-science.
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Italianguy
02-27-2010, 04:48 AM
Omg! There is a possibility that there could be 2 of me? Noooooo way, God wouldn't do that to everyone twice!;D

Plus if that were true.....I would have twice as many reps on Islamicboard:hmm: Thus giving you the scientific proof that there is only 1 universe:D

God made everything! If there are more universes, HE made those too!
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CosmicPathos
02-27-2010, 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
Omg! There is a possibility that there could be 2 of me? Noooooo way, God wouldn't do that to everyone twice!;D

Plus if that were true.....I would have twice as many reps on Islamicboard:hmm: Thus giving you the scientific proof that there is only 1 universe:D

God made everything! If there are more universes, HE made those too!
I do not think there is any evidence of other universes. We cannot measure things outside of our universe. :hmm:
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Italianguy
02-27-2010, 05:01 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I do not think there is any evidence of other universes. We cannot measure things outside of our universe. :hmm:
That is true brother! I was sayng that as well, ust trying it with humor....I am trying to be more humorous in loo of whats going on with me. sorryimsad
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CosmicPathos
02-27-2010, 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
That is true brother! I was sayng that as well, ust trying it with humor....I am trying to be more humorous in loo of whats going on with me. sorryimsad
lol, I missed it. You are doing totally fine.
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Dagless
02-27-2010, 05:25 AM
If it were true wouldn't this also negate free will? and therefore negate any reason for punishment?
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Life_Is_Short
02-27-2010, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Hi all.

I am not sure whether this post belongs here or in the Science section, but I will post it here to start with.

Does anybody know about/understand the concept/theory of parallel universes?
If so, could you explain it to me in (fairly) simple terms?

Thank you. :)
To understand parallel universe you need to understand Quantum physics (science of the tinyest), and in particular the property of particles and waves. There property is best understood by double slit experiment.

Instead of explaining, watch this video.

Media Tags are no longer supported



In short, we are made up of these weird particles (electrons) and they can be at two places at once as the experiment proves and so therefore our Earth, universe and everything else (also made of these particle) can be at two places at once and hence the weirdness "parallel universe". :hiding: This is what i know of "things being at two places at once" but mark my words, there is more to this than meets the eye. :p

Hope this helps/ Insh'Allah.
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Italianguy
02-27-2010, 09:21 PM
Oh, Qauntum physics and qauntum mechanics is so much fun!
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barney
02-27-2010, 11:39 PM
Yipes, this is an old thread!


Parrellel universe.

Scroll through to 1/3 of the way through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF6aEFFMxjU
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Grace Seeker
03-04-2010, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Yipes, this is an old thread!
But still a fun one!! :D



Originally Posted by glo
Thanks, guys ... although I feel more confused than ever now ... :D

Let us assume that there are parallel universes ... does the theory say that we all live in each of those universes? I.e. there would be a glo1, glo2, glo3 ... glo infinite???
In simplest terms, the concept of there being parallel universes must first admit to the possibility of there being mutliple other universes. In most of the theories that allow for this, each other universe is completely independent of any other universe, even the idea that one could actually observe the other universes is problematic, that that would make them have some point of correspondence with each other.

With an infinite variety of optional alternatives, it would seem logical that there are both universes with glo1, glo2, and glo3, and universes with anti-glo, and many more universes in which glo had never been conceived, and still more universes in which the whole idea of a glo would be itself inconceivable.

It is primarily the science fiction models that have your host of glo1, glo2 and glo3 possibilities, but in an infinite number of universe possibilities they would also remain not only possible, but assumed to in fact exist as well as every other option to the infinite degree. But in none of them would any of the glos that exist there be our glo. You are unique not just to this world, but to all time and all space, and even all universes. Another universe may have an exact replica of you, even down to all the events and thoughts of your life, but it would still not be you. From a religious point of view, only God, who exists bounded in every way, could actually exists in more than one universe.
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Muhammad
03-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Greetings and :sl:,

Here's another website to add to your collection:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

:smile:
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Muezzin
03-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Watch Season 6 of Lost.

Purely for research purposes, of course.

Obviously.
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Chuck
03-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Dagless
If it were true wouldn't this also negate free will? and therefore negate any reason for punishment?
Not really. But just to make clear my opinion doesn't agree with the interpretation of parallel universe.
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Italianguy
03-08-2010, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Watch Season 6 of Lost.

Purely for research purposes, of course.

Obviously.
I don't watch too much tv but I heard that show was pretty good...is it?:hmm:

I have never followed a sitcom? If thats what it is?

God be with you.
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Dagless
03-08-2010, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Not really. But just to make clear my opinion doesn't agree with the interpretation of parallel universe.
Well if you have 2 options (one right, one wrong) and you choose the right one, then the wrong one is played out too - same goes for the other way around. If you've done both how can you be judged?
What is your interpretation of parallel universes?
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Chuck
03-08-2010, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by Dagless
Well if you have 2 options (one right one wrong) and you choose the right one, then the wrong one is played out too - same goes for the other way around. If you've done both how can you be judged.
What is your interpretation of parallel universes?
I don't believe there are parallel universes with different choices. As for the free will it doesn't negate the freewill, freewill it is still played out for the individual in his universe based on the choice individual takes.
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Dagless
03-08-2010, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Chuck
I don't believe there are parallel universes with different choices. As for the free will it doesn't negate the freewill, freewill it is still played out for the individual in his universe based on the choice individual takes.
The second individual would be created along with the choice and is still you. He is not a separate entity which existed before the point you made the choice.
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Grace Seeker
03-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
I don't believe there are parallel universes with different choices. As for the free will it doesn't negate the freewill, freewill it is still played out for the individual in his universe based on the choice individual takes.
Yes and no.

I can see why it would appear that freewill is played out. However, just like any conditioned being thinks they are making a free choice, but the reality is the conditiioning governs the range of choices even considered. If we accept the idea of there being an infinite number of universes, then all of the options are played out. There is determinishm governing the whole of reality in that every option must be accounted for. Thus what appears to be free choice is governed by the reality which says that such and such must happen in some universe, and which universe you live in is just the random draw of chance out of one of the infinite possibilities.
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Chuck
03-08-2010, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Dagless
The second individual would be created along with the choice and is still you. He is not a separate entity which existed before the point you made the choice.
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Yes and no.

I can see why it would appear that freewill is played out. However, just like any conditioned being thinks they are making a free choice, but the reality is the conditiioning governs the range of choices even considered. If we accept the idea of there being an infinite number of universes, then all of the options are played out. There is determinishm governing the whole of reality in that every option must be accounted for. Thus what appears to be free choice is governed by the reality which says that such and such must happen in some universe, and which universe you live in is just the random draw of chance out of one of the infinite possibilities.
Above doesn't negate the free choice. Individual is still making a choice in each off shoot of parallel universe. In this case, off shoot of parallel universe is out come of a choice made, and having no choice would mean no off shoot of a parallel universe. Therefore, both appears to be contradictory together -- off shoot parallel universe from a choice made and no free choice.
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Nokiacrazi
03-08-2010, 06:53 PM
"Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameen" [Surah Fatiah 1:2]

I have underlined the last word.

"[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds "

If there are more universes/worlds, then they were all made by God.
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Grace Seeker
03-08-2010, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Above doesn't negate the free choice. Individual is still making a choice in each off shoot of parallel universe. In this case, off shoot of parallel universe is out come of a choice made, and having no choice would mean no off shoot of a parallel universe. Therefore, both appears to be contradictory together -- off shoot parallel universe from a choice made and no free choice.

If one is free to make a choice, then one is also free to not make a given choice. This would mean that not all options would be realized. Thus, to accept the possibility of free will means that there are a limited, finite number of universes.
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Chuck
03-08-2010, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Thus, to accept the possibility of free will means that there are a limited, finite number of universes.
Actually, it looks the opposite to me, free will would mean having infinite number of parallel universes as free will makes the choice near infinite if not absolute infinite. Limited choices would mean limited number of parallel universes.
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Grace Seeker
03-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Actually, it looks the opposite to me, free will would mean having infinite number of parallel universes as free will makes the choice near infinite if not absolute infinite. Limited choices would mean limited number of parallel universes.
Did you follow my reasoning? If one has to exercise all of those choices, then one has lost the freedom to not choose, which ought to be an aspect of free will as well.

Imagine a choice with just two possible outcomes. In a truly free universe, you will choose either option A or option B. But in a multiverse, in one univese option A is chosen, and in the other option B is chosen. You may feel like you freely choose between A and B, but the reality is that both must be chosen. So, your freedom to choose did not exist, it was determined simply by whether you happened to randomly exist in universe A or universe B.

True, there are more than A and B choices, and there are a whole series that seem to run on infinitely, but the process remains the same. If all the options have to be fulfill, then what you choose is determined not by choice, but by which universe you happen to be in. Choice would be to say that we can have some options unfulfilled. And that can only happen when there are finite number of universes.
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Muezzin
03-08-2010, 08:35 PM
Schroedinger and his flippin' free-will-threatening cat...
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Grace Seeker
03-09-2010, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Schroedinger and his flippin' free-will-threatening cat...
Exactly!! As long as there is only one universe, we don't know whether the cat will be alive or dead until we investigate. But we can be certain it will be one and not both. The only way that it could be both would be to allow for parallel universes. So, the possibility of infinite parrallel universes would not only allow for all infinite possibilities, but say that they must indeed be infinitely played out until exhausted (though the idea of exhausting the infinite is another intriguin idea for another day). It is only in a universe that does not exhaust all options that options actually remain open. And that can only take place when we limit the number of univeses in which options can occur to actualy happen. Thus, for there to be free will (and the potential for the cat to be either live or dead, but not both) there must be a limited number of universes. As soon as we know that it will be both, by having multiple universes where both scenarios are played out, we have lost the ability to actually choose outcomes.
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Chuck
03-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Did you follow my reasoning? If one has to exercise all of those choices, then one has lost the freedom to not choose, which ought to be an aspect of free will as well.

Imagine a choice with just two possible outcomes. In a truly free universe, you will choose either option A or option B. But in a multiverse, in one univese option A is chosen, and in the other option B is chosen. You may feel like you freely choose between A and B, but the reality is that both must be chosen. So, your freedom to choose did not exist, it was determined simply by whether you happened to randomly exist in universe A or universe B.

True, there are more than A and B choices, and there are a whole series that seem to run on infinitely, but the process remains the same. If all the options have to be fulfill, then what you choose is determined not by choice, but by which universe you happen to be in. Choice would be to say that we can have some options unfulfilled. And that can only happen when there are finite number of universes.
Yes I followed your reason and the problem is you are looking it from top down which is giving the wrong picture. Try to look at it from bottom up -- a parallel universe is a function of choice.

Here consider this:
Choice would be to say that we can have some options unfulfilled. And that can only happen when there are finite number of universes.
With freewill you can have a choice not taken, but that is the result of input and not the function. Functions are not defined as such. Basically, you are taking freewill which allows to have infinite number of choices and then limiting the choices based on a individual input. Which is wrong, as function can't be defined on input. A function is broader than a possible input. Basically, you are limiting freewill with consideration of that input. Remember functions are abstractions. In abstraction, a freewill will have infinite number of choices including a choice not taken (which is a choice too), hence, resulting in infinite number parallel universes as a function of choices.

In simple terms, the more choices there are the more number of parallel universes there will be leading to infinitum. Even though sum of all the parallel universes will represent all the choices, which would be infinite, but still a parallel universe represents a choice.
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Grace Seeker
03-09-2010, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
In abstraction, a freewill will have infinite number of choices including a choice not taken (which is a choice too), hence, resulting in infinite number parallel universes as a function of choices.

In simple terms, the more choices there are the more number of parallel universes there will be leading to infinitum. Even though sum of all the parallel universes will represent all the choices, which would be infinite, but still a parallel universe represents a choice.
Yes, the more choices the more parallel universes. But as soon as you detemine that the entire infinite number of choices must exist, then (by definition) their existence is pre-determined. All that is left is not to determine what will happen, but who it will happen to. And that is the result of random chance selection of you to a particular universe.

Yes, from a bottom up way of looking at the universe (as one residing within it) it would indeed appear as if you have a choice. But for one who is able to stand back and assess all universes at the same time, it becomes obvious that each universe is pre-determined to run along a particular path for it is pre-determined that it must exist as one of the infinite number of possiblities. Only if it has the option of not existing, do options remain open. But in that case we are no longer dealing with an infinite number of parallel universes.
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Chuck
03-11-2010, 03:17 PM
But as soon as you detemine that the entire infinite number of choices must exist, then (by definition) their existence is pre-determined. All that is left is not to determine what will happen, but who it will happen to. And that is the result of random chance selection of you to a particular universe.
Look lets say there is a dice with numbers 1 to 6, if I choose 4 and in the other parallel universe it is chosen 5, I don't see it as no free will. Free will would be if I want to choose 4 but i can't choose 4.

i guess we have to agree to disagree.
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Grace Seeker
03-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Look lets say there is a dice with numbers 1 to 6, if I choose 4 and in the other parallel universe it is chosen 5, I don't see it as no free will. Free will would be if I want to choose 4 but i can't choose 4.

i guess we have to agree to disagree.
I agree with that.

But, again you have limited the number of univeses to just two so that there remains a choice. If there were to be exactly the same number of univeses as there are faces on the dice, and all of the options must be played out, then the random roll of the dice would determine which universe you were in. I agree if one does not have to play out all of the options, then choice exists. But if all of the options do have to be played out, it is in that case that I argue that choice no longer exists for fate is determined by the random selection of which universe you happen to be in.


So, I guess the first question is not whether or not their is free will, but how many universes are there?


Good to muse over the imponderibles with you.
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Dagless
03-12-2010, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Look lets say there is a dice with numbers 1 to 6, if I choose 4 and in the other parallel universe it is chosen 5, I don't see it as no free will. Free will would be if I want to choose 4 but i can't choose 4.
In this view you are separating yourself with the you from the other universe. Like you are 2 different people who made 2 different choices. Since the reality branches from your action (or his, depending on how you look at it) you would be the same person. Therefore you would be judged for both decisions. You could say "I chose 4", but you would also be judged for choosing 5. Supposedly.
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Chuck
03-12-2010, 08:33 AM
Originally Posted by Dagless
In this view you are separating yourself with the you from the other universe. Like you are 2 different people who made 2 different choices. Since the reality branches from your action (or his, depending on how you look at it) you would be the same person. Therefore you would be judged for both decisions. You could say "I chose 4", but you would also be judged for choosing 5. Supposedly.
You are too mixing other things. Now the judgement, shouldn't judgement of each parallel universe would be different?
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Chuck
03-12-2010, 06:09 PM
This guy explains better:

Q24 Does many-worlds allow free-will?

Many-Worlds, whilst deterministic on the objective universal level, is
indeterministic on the subjective level so the situation is certainly
no better or worse for free-will than in the Copenhagen view.
Traditional Copenhagen indeterministic quantum mechanics only slightly
weakens the case for free-will. In quantum terms each neuron is an
essentially classical object. Consequently quantum noise in the brain
is at such a low level that it probably doesn't often alter, except very
rarely, the critical mechanistic behaviour of sufficient neurons to
cause a decision to be different than we might otherwise expect. The
consensus view amongst experts is that free-will is the consequence of
the mechanistic operation of our brains, the firing of neurons,
discharging across synapses etc and fully compatible with the
determinism of classical physics. Free-will is the inability of an
intelligent, self-aware mechanism to predict its own future actions due
to the logical impossibility of any mechanism containing a complete
internal model of itself rather than any inherent indeterminism in the
mechanism's operation.

Nevertheless, some people find that with all possible decisions being
realised in different worlds that the prima facia situation for free-
will looks quite difficult. Does this multiplicity of outcomes destroy
free-will? If both sides of a choice are selected in different worlds
why bother to spend time weighing the evidence before selecting? The
answer is that whilst all decisions are realised, some are realised more
often than others - or to put to more precisely each branch of a
decision has its own weighting or measure which enforces the usual laws
of quantum statistics.

This measure is supplied by the mathematical structure of the Hilbert
spaces. Every Hilbert space has a norm, constructed from the inner
product, - which we can think of as analogous to a volume - which
weights each world or collection of worlds. A world of zero volume is
never realised. Worlds in which the conventional statistical
predictions consistently break down have zero volume and so are never
realised. (See "How do probabilities emerge within many-worlds?")

Thus our actions, as expressions of our will, correlate with the weights
associated with worlds. This, of course, matches our subjective
experience of being able to exercise our will, form moral judgements and
be held responsible for our actions.

http://kuoi.com/~kamikaze/doc/many-worlds-faq.html
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Dagless
03-12-2010, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Nevertheless, some people find that with all possible decisions being
realised in different worlds that the prima facia situation for free-
will looks quite difficult. Does this multiplicity of outcomes destroy
free-will? If both sides of a choice are selected in different worlds
why bother to spend time weighing the evidence before selecting? The
answer is that whilst all decisions are realised, some are realised more
often than others - or to put to more precisely each branch of a
decision has its own weighting or measure which enforces the usual laws
of quantum statistics.
This seems incorrect at a very basic level.
The fact that some outcomes occur more often than others is only down to the effect of there being so many universes, not down to free will.

Even if someone decides to play Russian roulette with a six shooter which contains 5 bullets (leaving one empty) we can STILL say that he survives in more universes than he does not survive.

This is not because of free will (since his will is obviously to kill himself, leaving only a <17% chance of survival), it is due to there being more "possible outcomes" where he does not die (included in these are scenarios where he does not even come into contact with a gun let alone decide to play Russian roulette). He has no control over which outcomes are realised more than others. The universal statistics will not change no matter what he does (whether he is good or evil or neither).
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Chuck
03-12-2010, 07:15 PM
The quote has confused you more. Anyhow.

Even if someone decides to play Russian roulette with a six shooter which contains 5 bullets (leaving one empty) we can STILL say that he survives in more universes than he does not survive.
Don't really know, since all this is just theoretical. It depends on which theory you are looking at. Usually, people believe choice will be different in each one, so only in one he will die and cease to exist early than the other. The person in the parallel universe is not exactly same, actions are different.

Here is the question for you. Lets say, if tomorrow scientist prove that parallel universe exists than that would mean you don't have freewill?
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Dagless
03-12-2010, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
The quote has confused you more. Anyhow.
Why? Was my answer wrong in any way?

Originally Posted by Chuck
Don't really know, since all this is just theoretical. It depends on which theory you are looking at. Usually, people believe choice will be different in each one, so only in one he will die and cease to exist early than the other. The person in the parallel universe is not exactly same, actions are different.
Yes, but we know for sure that he will die playing Russian roulette fewer times than he will die other ways. This is a fact simply because there are more other ways to die. No amount of "will" can change that fact.

Originally Posted by Chuck
Here is the question for you. Lets say, if tomorrow scientist prove that parallel universe exists than that would mean you don't have freewill?
It would depend on whether there were an infinite number, if they were formed at decision points (as we are discussing), if they could be influenced, etc. etc. Ironically there is probably a small percentage of parallel universes which know parallel universes exist... so I guess somewhere somehow this is already being addressed/has been addressed/will be addressed.
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Chuck
03-12-2010, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by Dagless
Why? Was my answer wrong in any way?
You went off. Quote is talking about statistics in QM and gave the reference to HS in QM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert...ntum_mechanics

In layman terms, author summarizes:
Thus our actions, as expressions of our will, correlate with the weights
associated with worlds. This, of course, matches our subjective
experience of being able to exercise our will, form moral judgements and
be held responsible for our actions.


Originally Posted by Dagless
Yes, but we know for sure that he will die playing Russian roulette fewer times than he will die other ways. This is a fact simply because there are more other ways to die. No amount of "will" can change that fact.
You missed the main point. He is not same in the parallel universe. Do you think if superman existed and in a parallel universe he was evil. Is it the same superman?

Originally Posted by Dagless
It would depend on whether there were an infinite number, if they were formed at decision points (as we are discussing), if they could be influenced, etc. etc.
Interesting seems close to what I've been saying all along. And what difference it make if it was or was not infinite?

Originally Posted by Dagless
Ironically there is probably a small percentage of parallel universes which know parallel universes exist... so I guess somewhere somehow this is already being addressed/has been addressed/will be addressed.
There is no real proof of MWI. There is a saying among physicists that there are real physicists and than there are theoretical physicists. :D
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Dagless
03-12-2010, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
You went off. Quote is talking about statistics in QM and gave the reference to HS in QM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert...ntum_mechanics

In layman terms, author summarizes:
Thus our actions, as expressions of our will, correlate with the weights
associated with worlds. This, of course, matches our subjective
experience of being able to exercise our will, form moral judgements and
be held responsible for our actions.
Correlation is all well and good, but the quote I commented on was implying that some decisions being more realised than others somehow influenced/lead to the observed probability... whereas its the other way around.


Originally Posted by Chuck
You missed the main point. He is not same in the parallel universe. Do you think if superman existed and in a parallel universe he was evil. Is it the same superman?
Its debatable. He will be superman in every way and born from the action of another superman.

Originally Posted by Chuck
There is no real proof of MWI. There is a saying among physicists that there are real physicists and than there are theoretical physicists. :D
There is no real proof for a lot of things. Doesn't stop us discussing them though :p
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Grace Seeker
03-14-2010, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Here is the question for you. Lets say, if tomorrow scientist prove that parallel universe exists than that would mean you don't have freewill?
If they prove that there is a parrallel world, no.
If they prove that there are several parallel worlds, no.
If they prove that there are an infinite number of parallel worlds, it all depends.

If some of those parallel worlds can be exact replicas of other worlds, so that not all possibilities are exercised, then we still have a finite number of choices and it may be that we are actually making choices. But if it is determined that all of the infinite possible number of scenarios must be realized, then which one I realize is merely the result of randomn placement in my particular universe and free-will (while perhaps still appearing to be my experience) has become no exisistent in a multi-verse in which randomn placement (not actual choice) is the key determining factor in the apparent choices I would perceive myself to be making.
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