Refutatiion Needed For an Intercourse Hadith on genetics??

[AntiKarateKid]

I read this somewhere and was wondering if it was true.

"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Number 546)

Is this hadith right? I don't understand it.

[Woodrow]

I read this somewhere and was wondering if it was true.

"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Number 546)

Is this hadith right? I don't understand it.

:sl:

It is an authentic hadith. Now does that mean it is scientifically accurate? That is a very debatable matter.

But, we must keep in mind that the hadith are the writings of man and not clear as to what may have been intended to be a scientific fact or a metaphor. It is an accurate statement, but we have yet to prove it as a fact.

From a genetic view point, it does not seem to be scientifically accurate, but could be a metaphor, analogy, probability etc. or possibly regarding something we do not understand.

There may also be other factors involved that are not yet proven, that can show it to be scientificaly correct. Some of the workable practices that can help a couple predetermine the gender of a child prior to concept could exist under the natural conditions of the mother to be, based on the increase or decrease of hormones resulting in either alkaline or acidic conditions in the woman's body during conception.

At the moment it would be best to simply acknowledge that the hadith is authentic, has a high degree of reliability, but we do not know if it is intended to be a scientific fact and that to date it has yet to be scientifically proven. However, some unproven studies seem to indicate it could be scientifically correct.

Without going into graphic detail:

Age-Old Advice

Jean and Robert Krak, of McMurray, Pennsylvania, were the proud parents of three boys, ages 7, 6, and 2. "We wanted a fourth child, and we wondered if there was any way to slant the odds in favor of having a girl -- to have the experience of raising a daughter," Jean recalls.

An obstetrician gave her instructions for timing fertilization, intercourse positions, and using a douche to increase her chances of having a girl. "He made no promises but said this technique had worked for others," says Jean. "We figured we'd try it, knowing that God still had the ultimate veto power." The family now includes 2-year-old Angela Marie.

Strategies for conceiving a child of a particular sex have been around for centuries. The Talmud, a major book of Jewish law, says that if a wife's orgasm precedes her husband's, the baby will be a boy. In the 13th century, a Chinese scientist created a chart that a woman could use to match her age to the month of the year when she was likely to conceive a boy or girl; some people still think it works (Chinese Astrology).

Age-old advice ranges from the ridiculous (a German folktale suggests placing a wooden spoon under your bed to conceive a girl) to the theoretically plausible (a man drinking coffee 30 minutes before intercourse to increase the speed of boy-producing sperm).

Low-tech methods of conceiving a specific sex are worth a try, but they're hardly guaranteed. "Couples should aim for having a healthy child; then, if they can increase their odds for a child of a particular sex, why not?" says J. Martin Young, M.D., a clinical assistant professor of pediatrics at Texas Tech University Medical School, in Amarillo, and author of How to Have a Girl and How to Have a Boy (Young Ideas Publishing). "As long as they'll be happy regardless of whether they have a boy or a girl, the outcome should be good."

Source: http://www.parents.com/getting-pregn...e-baby-gender/

[AntiKarateKid]

thank you brother, I was searching the internet for some hadiths and a bunch of em came up and I didnt know what to make of them. If you don't mind, I read this other one and was confused about it.

"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub.During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below thewaist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head nearme and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses)."

Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."

This has been used in alot of anti islamic websites, I was just wondering what to make of it. Sorry if this offends anyone. I am just confused as to what these hadiths mean.

[Woodrow]

thank you brother, I was searching the internet for some hadiths and a bunch of em came up and I didnt know what to make of them. If you don't mind, I read this other one and was confused about it.

This has been used in alot of anti islamic websites, I was just wondering what to make of it. Sorry if this offends anyone. I am just confused as to what these hadiths mean.

:w:

"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub.During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below thewaist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head nearme and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses)."

I am far from being a scholar and am fairly new at studying hadith. One thing about the hadith is how they relate many very intimate moments of the Prophet's(PBUH) life and his actions and words relating to very personal matters.

Again that is an authentic hadith of high reliability. we can be certain Aisha did say that and that did happen. Now the question is how does that relate to us today. In my opinion I believe that it shows very few things that happen in privacy between a husband and wife would be seen as sinful. to me it says that a married couple need not feel shame, guilt or offense over natural body functions that both men and women experience and will share as married couples. When I first read that hadith, I thought it was a bit personal to be related and was somewhat embarrassed, shocked etc. that such would be written and preserved. But, as I became more aware of what is being said, I now find it to be a very beautiful hadith and does show the degree of closeness and care a married couple should have towards each other. In marriage there no longer is separation or need of separation for each others most intimate body functions.

Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."

Another authentic hadith. But, sadly I have yet to do any in depth study on this one and have yet to read enough scholarly views to claim I understand it. However, in my opinion I feel it relates to being an example of how the things we consider to be of the highest value can also be used as a means to lead us into sinful temptations.

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[AntiKarateKid]

Brother, I thank you very much for those explanations. I am sorry if the thing shocked you. We both are not scholars of hadith. Our lack of knowledge in these particular areas might lead us to develope incorrect thoughts?

Perhaps I should stay away from reading hadith from random websites? Many of them are contorted against Islam. I am just confused as to what I should avoid and what I shouldnt avoid. Any advice?

That being said your explanations make perfect sense, you seem to be well on your way :thumbs_up

[Woodrow]

Brother, I thank you very much for those explanations. I am sorry if the thing shocked you. We both are not scholars of hadith. Our lack of knowledge in these particular areas might lead us to develope incorrect thoughts?

Perhaps I should stay away from reading hadith from random websites? Many of them are contorted against Islam. I am just confused as to what I should avoid and what I shouldnt avoid. Any advice?

That being said your explanations make perfect sense, you seem to be well on your way :thumbs_up

:w:

to be honest I have a very low opinion of online scholars and those who claim to be scholars online. I am certain there are valid reliable ones, however most of us will stand a higher risk of coming across erroneous ones.

The best choice is to seek out a learned scholar or Imam in your immediate area and even then always seek to verify what you read or hear from any person. In the final plans of life each of us will be accountable for our actions and the excuse that somebody mislead us, may not be an acceptable excuse.

Read, learn, question, verify all things. Do not accept anything a living person tells you, without seeking more opinions. Islam is a lifetime journey of learning and validating.

Most anti-Islamic sites become obvious after a few seconds. The most dangerous are those that appear to be supportive of Islam, have a very high degree of accuracy, but introduce subtle unexpected errors.

Avoid all site you know are anti-Islamic. Immediately get off any you find to be after reading for awhile and always stand ready to question and seek verification of what you read on the others.

[Whatsthepoint]

There was an extensive thread about the genetics hadith, however most of it got deleted due to forum migration.

Age-Old Advice

Jean and Robert Krak, of McMurray, Pennsylvania, were the proud parents of three boys, ages 7, 6, and 2. "We wanted a fourth child, and we wondered if there was any way to slant the odds in favor of having a girl -- to have the experience of raising a daughter," Jean recalls.

An obstetrician gave her instructions for timing fertilization, intercourse positions, and using a douche to increase her chances of having a girl. "He made no promises but said this technique had worked for others," says Jean. "We figured we'd try it, knowing that God still had the ultimate veto power." The family now includes 2-year-old Angela Marie.

Strategies for conceiving a child of a particular sex have been around for centuries. The Talmud, a major book of Jewish law, says that if a wife's orgasm precedes her husband's, the baby will be a boy. In the 13th century, a Chinese scientist created a chart that a woman could use to match her age to the month of the year when she was likely to conceive a boy or girl; some people still think it works (Chinese Astrology).

Age-old advice ranges from the ridiculous (a German folktale suggests placing a wooden spoon under your bed to conceive a girl) to the theoretically plausible (a man drinking coffee 30 minutes before intercourse to increase the speed of boy-producing sperm).

Low-tech methods of conceiving a specific sex are worth a try, but they're hardly guaranteed. "Couples should aim for having a healthy child; then, if they can increase their odds for a child of a particular sex, why not?" says J. Martin Young, M.D., a clinical assistant professor of pediatrics at Texas Tech University Medical School, in Amarillo, and author of How to Have a Girl and How to Have a Boy (Young Ideas Publishing). "As long as they'll be happy regardless of whether they have a boy or a girl, the outcome should be good."

These methods may work or they may not. So far there's no evidence tehy do. The article mentions one family who happened to use them and got a baby girl.
The Talmud says exactly the opposite as the hadith claims. Although the resemblence of a child to its parents is not limited to the child's gender only.

Personally, I doubt the timing of the orgasm has any effect on the gender or the resemblence of a child to its parents.

[Malaikah]

:sl:

The hadith is authentic, here is a little piece on it:

Turning our attention to the child resembling one of its parents, this is also confirmed by the prophetic hadîth. The child may sometimes resemble his father, his mother, one of his uncles, his grandparents, or he may closely resemble none of them.

Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, in the same book (page 164) writes:

In brief, the factors governing the child’s resembling one parent, grandparent, or even coming with new attributes that do not belong to any of his relatives – like what happened at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when al-Farâzî’s wife gave birth to a black baby while none of their relatives were black – is a very complicated matter. Genetics plays a very complicated role. Some of these genes follow the Mendelian model with respect to dominant and recessive genes and others do not.

Even those genes that submit to such laws might at times not act in accordance with those laws. The gene may or may not be fully expressed.

Modern medicine is still ignorant of many of the determining factors that bring about how much a child will resemble either of its parents. Until now, we do not know the role that may be played by the release of one fluid before the other in how the child will resemble one of his parents. Until and unless this is decisively determined in the future, we have no other choice but to simply believe what our Prophet (peace be upon him) said. He does not say anything except the truth.

In fact, this should encourage medical scholars to investigate these matters and discover new things.

I have given you the answer of Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, because this is an important issue and I found his answer to be sufficient.

We have to believe in what Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) tell us. We are certain of the fact that Allah says: “Of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ’: 85]

And Allah knows best.

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=31

[YusufNoor]

thank you brother, I was searching the internet for some hadiths and a bunch of em came up and I didnt know what to make of them. If you don't mind, I read this other one and was confused about it.

"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub.

from the lectures i've heard Akhi, Aisha[RA] & the Messenger of Allah[SAWS] used to race when performing Ghusl; one of the things we understand from this is that there is no shame in the state of Junub and all those Jewish & Catholic feelings of guilt and shame should not be associated with sex.

During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below thewaist) and used to fondle me.

2 points here, firstly, Jewish custom forbade a man from touching a woman during her menses. we are given an example that that is not part of Islam. and secondly the Messenger of Allah[SAWS] showed that not only is woman not touchable, but other than intercourse, there was no change in the relationship between the sexes. this example shows us that there isn't something "wrong" with women during their menses either. remember males in alot of cultures use any excuse to demean and seperate women and try to prove that they have secondary status of some sort; that ended with Islam [although from what we see nowadays, i should say that it is "supposed to end with Islam!"]

While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head nearme and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses)."

i have no lecture experience on that, but again it shows that the Messenger of Allah[SAWS] didn't shun his wife a) during her menses and b) while performing Itikaf during her menses. i'm sure you will find online fatwahs that are in disagreement with that, but that just shows the value of some online fatwahs...


Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."

you know, i just heard a lecture on this the other week, iirc, but the hadeeth was put in context and without that context, i am totally lost...

This has been used in alot of anti islamic websites, I was just wondering what to make of it. Sorry if this offends anyone. I am just confused as to what these hadiths mean.

:sl:

if you are to be the new "Deedat or something", grab a Ibn Kathir Tafsir and Ma'ariful Qur'an and read them both, that's about 15 volumes. read them all and listen to some online tafsir, i highly recommend Mufti Ismail Menk:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

listen to 3. Tafseer - Ramadaan 1426 (2005) Klerksdorp (Reasons of Revelation of verses of the noble Qur'an) first! then listen to it again. you should be amazed.

keep in mind when "refuting" "crap" about our Deen, that the reason that people hate Islam is because "they don't get it". YOU have to "get it" first in order to explain it. listening to Mufti Menk, who frequently quotes ibn Kathir as well as the Ma'ariful Qur'an, you will, In Sha'a Allah, recognize 2 points:

A) Islam is the most beautiful creation of Allah {Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala}; it sings of righteousness and justice and guidance.

and

B) because A is true, you will learn that EVERYTHING IN ISLAM MAKES PERFECT RATIONAL SENSE! there may be a few things that only Allah {Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala} and His Messenger{Salla Allahu Alayhe Wa Salaam} know for sure, but you will see, In Sha'a Allah, that common sense for the most part will become your best weapon!

and all of that reading and listening should keep you off of those sites for a while. "doubt" is NOT a good part of Islam, don't bite off more than you can chew at once!

:w:

[MSalman]

:sl:

I'm sure these ahadith are already refuted in details before but here are my two cents

In the name of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala), the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub.During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below thewaist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head nearme and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses)."

To be honest, you do not even need long explanations to understand this hadith, but let's do it for the heck of it. We learn three things from this hadith.

1- Prophet (Peace be upon him) and 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her)
used to take shower together.

Lesson: there is nothing wrong with a husband taking shower with her wife and if they look at each other while naked.

2- Prophet (Peace be upon him) and 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) used to intimate (excluding sexual intercourse) during her menses.

Lesson: In Jahliya, the Mushrikeen (Poly Atheists) and People of the book (Jews and Christians) would separate themselves from their wives during their menses and would not go near them and touch them. So the Sunnah of Prophet (Peace be upon him) broke the Jahliya custom. In addition, in Islam, a husband and wife can intimate with each other during her menses as long as they do not have sexual intercourse.

3- Our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) used to wash Prophet's (Peace be upon him) hair during her menses when he (Peace be upon him) was in Itkaf.

Comments: The masjid and house of Prophet (Peace be upon him) were attached and it is forbidden for women to enter Masjid wile they are in menses.

Now, what is wrong with this hadith? Do haters have problem with a husband and wife taking shower together or looking at each other when naked? Or do they have problem with a husband and wife enjoying each other when the wife is having her period? Or do that have problem with a wife washing her husband's hair while she is in menses? They have problems with a husband and wife's relationship! Come on! If this was about themselves, their friends, celebrities etc. they will say "wow, this is so romantic" but due to the name Muhammad, suddenly it has become the worst thing on this planet! They have no problem with their own people doing this illegally and illegitimately but they have problem when Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) or his followers do it legally and legitimately with their wives!

Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."

this hadith is incomplete, Shaykh Albani (May Allah have mercy on him) says:

The people of Jahileeyah used to say: "There are omens in a house, in a woman and a horse." The origins of the hadeeth: Two men from Bani 'Aamir entered upon 'Ayesha, they told her that Abu Huraira narrates on the authority of the Prophet-sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - that he said: 'There are omens in a house, in a woman and a horse.' She became very angry; half of her flew to the sky, and half to the earth. She said : "I swear by the One Who sent down the Furqaan to Muhammad, that the Messenger never ever said this, rather what he said was: "the people of jahileeyah used to seek omens from that." And in the narration of Ahmad: "But the Prophet of Allaah -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - used to say: the people of jahileeyah used to say: Omens are in a woman, a house and a riding animal. Then Ayesha read to the end of the Ayaah." And it was narrated by al-Hakim [2/479] and he said: "authentic Isnaad" and ad-Dhahabi agreed with him, it is as they said it was, rather it is upon the conditions of Muslim. What supports this narration is what at-Tayaalisee narrated in his 'Musnad' [1537 ]: Muhammad bin Raashid narrated to us on the authority of Makhool, it was said to 'Ayesha : that Abu Huraira says: that the Messenger of Allaah -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - said; "Pessimism is found in three things: in a house, a woman and a horse." Ayesha said: "Abu Huraira did not memorize this, because when he entered, the Messenger of Allaah -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - was saying: May Allaah curse the Jews; they say: 'Without doubt pessimism is in a house, a woman and a horse,' so he heard the end of the hadeeth, and he never heard the beginning of it."

To sum up, the narrators had differed in the wording of the hadeeth, some of them narrated it as in the chapter heading. There are narrators who mentioned this saying with an extra wording in the beginning of the hadeeth. This indicates that there are no omens or pessimism [and they have the same meaning like the scholars have said]. This is what the majority of narrators were upon. Therefore their narration is the stronger opinion, since they have more information/knowledge, so it is obligatory to accept it. Certainly what supports this opinion is the hadeeth of 'Ayesha, which is the one where the people of jahileeyah are those who said that Omens are in a woman, a house and a riding animal.

Zarkashee said in 'al-Ejabah' [ p.128 ] : "Some of the scholars have said: The narration of 'Ayesha regarding this matter resembles the truth InshAllaah [ i.e. More than the hadeeth of Abu Huraira ] due to it being in agreement with the prohibition of the Messenger of Allaah - alayhi as-Sallat wa sallam of believing in omens, which is a general prohibition, disliking them and persuasion in leaving them, due to the saying of the Messenger : "Seventy thousand people will enter Paradise without being taken into account. They are those who don't seek cauterization,(and in the original text: do not hoard up wealth) do not request Ruqya, nor do they believe in omens, and they rely upon their Lord.''

I say: he indicates by his saying: "Some of the scholars" to Imaam at-Tahawee -may Allaah have mercy upon him. At-Tahawee favours the previously mentioned hadeeth of Ayesha in "Mushkil al-Athaar", and similarly in "Sharh al-Ma'aani" and he ended his research about this subject with this hadeeth. He said regarding the hadeeth of Sa'ad, and about those which are similar in meaning: "What is indicated in this hadeeth is different to what is indicated before it in other hadeeth, [ I mean, the hadeeth of Ibn Umar, narrated by 'Utbah bin Muslim and that which has the same meaning on the authority of Ibn Umar ], that is due to Sa'ad scolding Sa'eed when he mentioned to him about omens, he informed him on the authority of the Prophet -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam - that he said : 'There are no omens," then he said: "If there were omens in anything, it would be in a woman, a horse and in a house." However he did not say that omens are in these things. Rather what he said was if there were omens in things they would be in those, i.e. if there were to be in anything they would be in those things. So if they were not in these things, then they would not be in anything.' All Praise belongs to Allaah, may His peace and blessings be upon our final Prophet Muhammad, his family, his companions and all those who follow his guidance.
Silsilah Ahadeeth As-Saheehah [993]

[Muslim Knight]

thank you brother, I was searching the internet for some hadiths and a bunch of em came up and I didnt know what to make of them. If you don't mind, I read this other one and was confused about it.

"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub.During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below thewaist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head nearme and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses)."

Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."

This has been used in alot of anti islamic websites, I was just wondering what to make of it. Sorry if this offends anyone. I am just confused as to what these hadiths mean.

Luckily I happen to come across an article in Islamtoday.com by Sheikh Muhammad b. `Abd Allah al-Qannâs which explains that there is no such thing as evil omen. There are bad qualities in things, and evil omen (as referred to in the hadith), are explained as consequences of these bad qualities. A man might get sorrow from bad wife, bad house or bad horse, but these are all qualities and not due to some superstition. The shaykh also explains, similarly, a man might get his happiness from a good wife, a good house and a good horse.

You can read the rest of the article for better understanding.

Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There are no such things as omens. A favorable auspice is the best there is."

They asked: "So what is a favorable auspice?"

The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: "A good word that one of you hears." [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (5754) and Sahîh Muslim (2223)]
This hadîth is one of the many which teach us that omens are un-Islamic.

As for the good word that the hadîth affirms, this is where one of us overhears something and draws personal comfort from it. It is a form of optimism. For instance, a person lying in the hospital with a serious illness happens to overhears someone walk by saying "Yâ Salâm" – an expression like "O Lord" using Allah's name meaning "peace" – and that person takes encouragement from hearing it.

Another person might be looking for a lost item and overhear someone saying: "Praise be to God! What a find I had today." From this, he takes heart that he might just find what he has lost.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to take heart when he heard people speak a good world or say positive things.

At the same time, the Prophet (peace be upon him) categorically prohibited the belief in omens and in portents of dread. He warned that the belief that omens and portents can influence our fate – positively or negatively – is a form of polytheism.

`Abd Allah b. Mas`ûd relates that the Prophet said: "Omens are polytheism." He repeated this three times. [Sunan Abî Dâwûd (3411)]

We also have where Sahl b. Sa`d al-Sâ'idî relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “If there were anything that brought an evil foreboding, it would be in three things: one's horse, one's wife and one's home.” [Sahih al-Bukhârî (2859) and Sahîh Muslim (2226)]

In another narration in Sahîh Muslim (2227), related from Jâbir, it reads: "If an ill foreboding were in anything, it would have been one's residence, one's servant, and one's horse."

Scholars of the past have differed in how they understood this hadîth. They have approached the hadîth in three ways:

1. Mental association: Some take the hadîth on its face value, understanding that sometimes a person, while living somewhere, or while in a certain marriage, or in possession of a certain means of transport, suffers a serious loss or misses opportunities. Of course, this all happens in accordance with Allah's decree, but it can cause a person to hate the elements of his life that he associates with these negative experiences. What the hadîth is telling us is that it is lawful for a person to change these aspects of his life, as long as he knows full well that his prosperity and providence are with Allah alone, and not in the things in his surroundings when Allah brought about His decree.

There is support for this interpretation in the hadîth related by Anas where he tells us that a man came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: "We used to live in a home where we were many in number and had an abundance of wealth. Then we moved to another home, and now we are few in number and have little wealth."

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Leave it to its misery." [Sunan Abî Dâwûd (3423)]

Ibn Qutaybah, in his discussion of this hadîth in Ta'wîl Mukhtalif al-Hadîth (99), writes:

They were only told to move from that house because they would be heavyhearted and restless to remain in a home where they suffered so much misfortune. So the Prophet (peace be upon him) told them to move. Indeed, Allah has placed in human nature the dislike of the places where they experience suffering, even though the place itself has nothing to do with it.

Al-Khattâbî, in A`lâm al-Hadîth (2/1379), explains why the hadîth makes specific mention of a person's residence, wife, and mode of transport:

Good fortune and misfortune are merely what a person experiences in life of benefit and harm. This is all according to Allah's will alone. These three things are mentioned only because they are the most ubiquitous and conspicuous factors of a person's life. Though they so not directly cause the person's fortune or misfortune, one's home, one's spouse, and one's steed are the most prevalent and essential things in the person's experience and surroundings. Therefore, these things can become associated most readily in a person's mind with misfortunes that befall him. It is just like how people feel good about someone from whom they receive benefit, even if that person did not expressly intend to help them. They feel negativity towards a person who brings them harm, even if that person did not intend any harm.

2. Bad qualities in the things themselves: Bad effects can come about in a person’s life because of these three things, if these things are not good, because of how closely and strongly people are attached to them.

The evil foreboding in the home, for instance, might be because of its cramped size, abusive neighbors, or its being too far from the mosque. With respect to a man's wife, it might be their inability to conceive children together or a lack of mutual trust – or due to her sharp tongue with him. In a servant, it could be bad manners or his having a lackadaisical attitude about his work.

3. These three things are among life's essential blessings: Some scholars understand the evil foreboding in the hadîth to refer to the misfortune of a person who does not have a good home, a good spouse, or a decent mode of transport. It is related from Sa`d b. Abî Waqqâs that the Porphet (peace be upon him) said: "Three things are among the causes of human happiness: a pious wife, a good home, and a good means of transport. And three things are among the causes of human misery: an bad wife, a bad home, and a bad means of transport." [Musnad Ahmad (1445)]

Al-Bukhârî pointed out how this understanding of the hadîth is reinforced by the verse of the Qur'ân which reads: " O you who believe! Surely from among your wives and your children there are enemies for you; therefore beware of them; and if you pardon and forbear and forgive, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." [Sûrah al-Taghâbûn: 14]

And Allah knows best.

SOURCE

[AntiKarateKid]

I THINK I GOT THE ASNWER for my original problem.

In the hadith where it talks about the man discharging before the woman,

the word which was translated as first also means dominate or overpower,

thus again, it seems to be a translational problem that caused controversy.

The man's discharge necessarily implies the genes and such that are present

in the sperm. Thus if his genes overpower the woman's genes, the child will

look like him. This is basic genetics. The word is dominate NOT first. Also, the hadith describes what

the man and women have as seeds. There were no words such as semen or eggs back then so this

is in laymans terms again.


If anyone wants to verify this themselves they can but I read an article on it when I looked for explainations, i cant find it right now though but this is the gist of it.

[snakelegs]

Perhaps I should stay away from reading hadith from random websites? Many of them are contorted against Islam. I am just confused as to what I should avoid and what I shouldnt avoid. Any advice?

unsolicited advice from a non-muslim: yes!
you are wasting your time and energy going to sites like that. you could use that energy to learn about your religion from reliable sources instead.

[Whatsthepoint]

I THINK I GOT THE ASNWER for my original problem.
In the hadith where it talks about the man discharging before the woman,
the word which was translated as first also means dominate or overpower,
thus again, it seems to be a translational problem that caused controversy.
The man's discharge necessarily implies the genes and such that are present
in the sperm. Thus if his genes overpower the woman's genes, the child will
look like him. This is basic genetics. The word is dominate NOT first. Also, the hadith describes what
the man and women have as seeds. There were no words such as semen or eggs back then so this
is in laymans terms again.

:sl:

The hadith is authentic, here is a little piece on it:

Turning our attention to the child resembling one of its parents, this is also confirmed by the prophetic hadîth. The child may sometimes resemble his father, his mother, one of his uncles, his grandparents, or he may closely resemble none of them.

Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, in the same book (page 164) writes:

In brief, the factors governing the child’s resembling one parent, grandparent, or even coming with new attributes that do not belong to any of his relatives – like what happened at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) when al-Farâzî’s wife gave birth to a black baby while none of their relatives were black – is a very complicated matter. Genetics plays a very complicated role. Some of these genes follow the Mendelian model with respect to dominant and recessive genes and others do not.

Even those genes that submit to such laws might at times not act in accordance with those laws. The gene may or may not be fully expressed.

Modern medicine is still ignorant of many of the determining factors that bring about how much a child will resemble either of its parents. Until now, we do not know the role that may be played by the release of one fluid before the other in how the child will resemble one of his parents. Until and unless this is decisively determined in the future, we have no other choice but to simply believe what our Prophet (peace be upon him) said. He does not say anything except the truth.

In fact, this should encourage medical scholars to investigate these matters and discover new things.

I have given you the answer of Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, because this is an important issue and I found his answer to be sufficient.

We have to believe in what Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) tell us. We are certain of the fact that Allah says: “Of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ’: 85]

And Allah knows best.

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=31

It seems Dr. Muhammad al-Bârr, which to me sounds like an arabic name, thinks the hadith speaks of the time the mother or the father reaches orgasm not dominance and recessiveness..

[AntiKarateKid]

Others would disagree about what it is saying. Keep in mind, he may have tried to make sense of the translation and not the arabic. My statement still stands and a differing opinion on it does not negate the truth of mine.

[Abdul Fattah]

I read this somewhere and was wondering if it was true.

"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Number 546)

Is this hadith right? I don't understand it.

First of all, the hadeeth is misquoted. The genuine hadeeth doesn't say "the child will resemble her" instead it says, the child will resemble the maternal uncle (her child will resembe her brother). Why is this important? This clearly shows that it is in the case of a boy, and not in the case of a girl. Remember this for later.
(source)

What we know of biology, is that people carry both dominant and regressive genes. When the man produces sperm, or the woman produces egg cells. Each DNA is split into two, so for each two egg cells or sperm cells made, there will be one carrying the regressive traits and one carrying the dominant. It seems unlikely that whether the egg cell carrying the dominant or the regressive traits is released from the ovaries, is determined by the timing of sexual discharge, simply because the egg cell could have been already released prior to it. However, which sperm cell makes it to the egg cell is still la big mystery to science. Certainly the better swimmer will get there first; but the egg cell doesn't always open up. So is it possible for the dominant/regressive-trait sperm cell to be affected by it? Maybe, maybe not, we really can't say at this point, but what we can't say is that science doesn't deny it.

So now for the second part, what decides whether it is a boy or girl? The sex is decided by which sperm cell makes it. Woman have an XX gene whereas men have XY. So the woman's egg cell always caries one X-gene whereas the man's sperm cells come with either an X-gene or with a Y-gene. If a Y-gene makes it, then the fusion XY will make a male embryo; whereas if a sperm cell carrying an X-gene makes it, the XX fusion will make a female embryo. Important here is that the sex is thus always decided by the sperm, and not by the egg cells.

Now, I'll leave it to that, since it shows that there is still room within science for this hadeeth to be truthful. There's a lot to say still, like how the moment of discharge could alter the pH of the woman's womb, or we could talk about how some dominant and regressive traits could be mixed on the same gene, or about what really qualifies as "resembling". But I think that all that that would result to is speculation. So unless someone does some serious scientific research on this, we'll have to conclude science does not contradict this hadeeth.

[Azy]

First of all, the hadeeth is misquoted. The genuine hadeeth doesn't say "the child will resemble her" instead it says, the child will resemble the maternal uncle (her child will resembe her brother). Why is this important? This clearly shows that it is in the case of a boy, and not in the case of a girl.

What exactly are you saying? That a girl cannot resemble her father?

Since you pointed it out, the maternal uncle part is quite important. From what you know of genetics, why on earth should it resemble either the father or the maternal uncle? The genetic load is inherited from the mother, and the whole point of this argument is that brothers and sisters are not born alike.
Why then would the maternal uncle come into it at all, since he might inherit completely different traits to his sister, they might each resemble a different one of their own parents.

It could also be the case that a child resembles neither parent, nor anyone in living memory. There was a case in time of the Prophet pbuh in which a black baby was born to two arab parents. This is because the child received two lots of recessive genes that had previously not been expressed in either parent. There was a case like this fairly recently in South Africa where a black african looking baby was born to two white parents.

It's conceivable that an X or Y sperm might be affected by womb conditions, but that is only to determine the sex, whether the child resembles either parent or none is determined by the expression of the dominant and recessive genes, which are not dependent at all on the sex chromosomes.
For example, if the mother is fair haired, blue eyed she carries two lots of recessive genes. The father carries two copies of the dominant dark hair, dark eyes gene.
There is no possible combination of the parents genes that could lead to the child having fair hair and blue eyes. Timing of the 'discharge' would make absolutely zero difference in such cases.

Secondly, how can 'Abdullah bin Salam verify the answers of the Prophet?

[Abdul Fattah]

The reason why the correction makes a difference is because the hadeeth is clearly revering to boys. That doesn't mean that girls cannot resemble their father, or boys resemble their mother. That only means, that the explanation is only referring to the case of a boy either resembling his father or his maternal uncle. As I said in my previous post we need to consider which characteristics they meant. Not all traits are simply dominant/regressive like the color of eyes. Some are co-optive and even other traits are dependent on two or even more separate genes. Like some might rely on the presence of high levels of testosterone in order to work. Meaning that a woman carrying these genes will not show the specific traits. Other then that, yeah, you're right, I forgot about the uncle having to have it to, that does seem to pose a problem at first time. I need to think this trough a bit longer.

Anyway, this still doesn't exclude the possibility that the hadeeth refers to characteristics that aren't necessarily DNA-dependent. Like a person's character for example.

[Azy]

You seem to have neglected the fact that the answer the Prophet pbuh gave is "the child will resemble her" even if the question doesn't say that.

[Abdul Fattah]

You seem to have neglected the fact that the answer the Prophet pbuh gave is "the child will resemble her" even if the question doesn't say that.

Oh wait, yes well noticed, so the hadeeth isn't contradicted by science afterall. Although the jew asked why does he resemble the maternals uncle, the prophet (peace be upon him) answered he will resemble her. So the hadeeth doesn't contradict genetics afterall ^_^

[AntiKarateKid]

brother, this hadith seems to be very open to interpretation. Here is a scholarly article written on the subject of this hadith.

http://www.rcpe.ac.uk/publications/a...n_genetics.pdf


This makes alot of sense now.

[i_m_tipu]

brother, this hadith seems to be very open to interpretation. Here is a scholarly article written on the subject of this hadith.

http://www.rcpe.ac.uk/publications/a...n_genetics.pdf


This makes alot of sense now.

JK bro

The article contains Simple n Honest analisys..

[Azy]

I did put this one to a geneticist.
Result here.

Also I'm still curious about how Abdullah bin Salam could verify the Prophet's (pbuh) answers.

I would also be interested to hear what you think of this hadith, a few on from the one you were discussing:

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 550:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet said, "Allah has appointed an angel in the womb, and the angel says, 'O Lord! A drop of discharge (i.e. of semen), O Lord! a clot, O Lord! a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete the child's creation, the angel will say. 'O Lord! A male or a female? O Lord! wretched or blessed (in religion)? What will his livelihood be? What will his age be?' The angel writes all this while the child is in the womb of its mother."