/* */

PDA

View Full Version : *!* Ants self-defence *!*



Khayal
05-15-2008, 05:34 AM
:arabic6:


Ants self-defence
Anew miracle in the Holy Quran
By Wadea Omrany
Translated By Magdy Abd Al-Shafy

.




.:salamext:
Besides its linguistic miracles , by which prophet Mohummed SAW challenged the polytheists to write one verse like it but they failed , the Holy Quran contains a lot of scientific miracles that God revealed to Mohummed SAW more than one thousand years ago . These miracles are discovered today to strengthen the belief of the believers and prove the Divine origin of The Holy Quran. Here is , Mrs Wadea Omrany discovers a new scientific miracle in The Holy Quran . Mrs Wadea says here we are before another a new scientific miracle in the Holy Quran ,in Sura Al-Namel ( rendered in English "ants") , verse number eighteen . This new miracle is about what the ant said in verse number eighteen and about what science discovered concerning the way in which ants communicate with each other , especially when informing of an impending danger that threatens the kingdom of ants .
We will try to explain the words that the ant uttered in the Holy Quran and we will try to connect what it said with the newly scientific discoveries , and this evidence that the Holy Quran preceded science and mentioned these facts(about ants communication) more than one thousand years ago.
God says what means in Sura Al-Namel ( in English rendered "ants )
"At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts break you (under foot without knowing it."
( 27:18) .

In the above mentioned verses , the ant reported the imminent danger facing them through four successive stages as follow :
1- "O ye ants"this is the first alarm given by the ant to draw the attention of the other ants quickly. On receiving this alarm , the other ants stand alert to receive the other signals that the same speaker ant will give .

2- "get into your habitations"here the speaker ant follows her words up with another signal , ordering the ants to do what they ought to do …… . We will see this relation in the light of what science has found out (concerning the communication between ants ) in the other half of the scientific analysis in this essay .

3- "lest Solomon and his hosts break you "in these word , the speaker ant shows the reason for this danger to her fellow ants and this is what we will prove in the light of what the scientific analysis gives .

4-without knowing it."The ants , as a reaction to the previous alarms , will make a certain kind of defence , in these last few words , the ant shows her fellows that they don't have to attack the source of danger ……….because the source of danger is not from a real enemy –this does not doesn't aim to attack the kingdom of ants as Solomon and his soldiers don't know of the ants on their way ….so the ants don't consider them real enemies .
.



.
In the last few words, the speaker ant prevents her fellows from attacking Solomon , and this what we will explain scientifically through the scientific analysis of the chemical codes of ants communication .
we have shown the sequence of the ants' orders which are divided into four stages –fours stages of phrases and signals .What does science say in this context ? read this essay :
Ants use chemical communication in the situations of alarm and defence and when the fast exchange of information is necessary, and when they face expected danger too. This alarm is generally marked and expressed by the emission of chemical signals of defense. The protective glands are responsible for the roles of alarm and defence , the Australian ant is a case in point .When this kind of ants faces danger , they secrete some droplets from their protective gland – this is and order for its fellow ants to run and make vibration by their antennas showing that they are in state of being alert . Study the composition of these phenomenon :
The first substance detected by the ants is an aldehyde hexanal : this draws their attention and arouses their interest . And as a result , they agitate and raise their antennas in air to search for other odors.
When they detect hexanol (the first message was in the form alcohol): the ants become in an alert state and run in all the directions in search of the source of problem. When undécanone is emitted , it attracts the ants toward the source of danger , and makes them bite all foreign objects in the ant hill. Then finally, when they come closer to the target , they discern the butyloctenal , which increases their aggression and their readiness to sacrifice themselves .

.



Amagnified picture of the head of an ant holding a piece of wood , see God's doing who perfected the doing of all things

.
This essay says that the chemical communication is the most important method of communication in the time of danger and in reporting this danger as well , in this process ants give out different kinds of these substances , each substance has a different code denoting certain kind of speech . If we pursue the emission of the substances by the ant that reported that danger in the above mentioned essay , we will find that it is the same as the ant did in the Holy verse ,number eighteen ,( Sura Al-Naml) .
The substances that an ant gives out of her body in a situation like this are divided into four kinds of substances , every substance has a certain language and code.

The successive stages of the reaction of the ants :
1. aldéhyde hexanal is the first chemical substance that an ant emits if it feels something dangerous , and this can be regarded as a siren (of danger ) , on receiving this substance , ants begin to centralize in one point and then remain alert and ready to receive the rest of signals and this identifies with the first phrase uttered by the ant in the holy verse "O ye ants "
2. Then the ant emits the second chemical substance" hexanol"
On receiving this substance , ants begin to run in all directions to determine the source of this substance . The ant that emits the chemical substance should determine the way lest all the rest of ants should go away and this what the ant of prophet Solomon did when it asked the other ants to enter their habitations saying " get into your habitations ", and this is an instruction from the speaker ant to her fellows to go in the direction of the habitations . So it must have determined the way and this is the same as directing the movement of ants in general .
Undécanone is the third substance that the ant emits
This substance shows the cause of the danger, and that what the ant did when it said in the third phrase "lest Solomon and his hosts break you (under foot)." Do you see how much the correspondence and the consistency is ? In this stage, in which the ants receive this substance, ants become ready to face the impending danger . So what about the fourth substance ?
In the fourth stage , the speaker ant emits a special chemical substance , this substance is butylocténal . By this substance , the speaker ant gives an order of defence and determines the kind of defence ….. so the it said in the last phrase " without knowing it" . By so doing the ant prevented the other ants from entering the stage of attack that would lead to death . So Prophet Solemn smiled tenderly and mercifully as if he had calmed these ants down and as if he would like to have said that they needn't have worried as he saw them and he was kind to them and would not allow any harm .

And now let me summarize what I have already said :
At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts break you (under foot without knowing it."
( 27:18)

.


one of the ants said:
"O ye ants
Hexanal
get into your habitations
hexanol
lest Solomon and his hosts crush you
undécanone
without knowing it.
butylocténal

.

And now ,how can the atheists and the suspicious people of the miracle of Holy Quran
respond after reading these facts that science proved its authenticity ? These facts were mentioned in the Holy quran more than one thousand years ago.
There is no god but thou: glory to thee: I was indeed wrong!

Some references
http://20gp.ovh.net/amiif/com.htm
http://membres.lycos.fr/dmouli/anatomie.html

Wadea Omrani , The City of Fas , the Kingdom of Morocco ,
Languages : Arabic and French
The present job : plastic artist
Scientific qualifications : Studies in plastic art.
I wish to employ this kind of arts in calling for God , the Most High and this through drawings ,using symbols and facts ,that lead people to know the truth of Islam .

fajrealimane@yahoo.fr
Translated By Magdy Abd Al-Shafy
Magdy_fighter@hotmail.com


:wasalamex


.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 06:25 AM
its amazing how much people can read into something.
Reply

Mikayeel
05-15-2008, 06:32 AM
:sl:

interesting read, thank you sister,
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 09:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
its amazing how much people can read into something.
It's amazing how much proof someone demands, when the truth is in front of their eyes.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Snowflake
05-15-2008, 10:03 AM
asalam alaikum wr wb,

SubhanAllah! Great post sis :)


Hi Ramna,

Allah tells us through the Quran that even ants communicate with each other and alert each other of danger. Now science also tells us the same thing. How then is that reading too much into something? It's precisely the same thing.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 10:04 AM
show me some unbiased scientific evidence and will talk.
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 10:05 AM
I don't wish to discuss anything with a person who rejects so much proof, and is so blind.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 10:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
asalam alaikum wr wb,

SubhanAllah! Great post sis :)


Hi Ramna,

Allah tells us through the Quran that even ants communicate with each other and alert each other of danger. Now science also tells us the same thing. How then is that reading too much into something? It's precisely the same thing.
because at it has been read as if the ants were speaking (speaking human like) and later it becomes hey this article says....

now as for miracles.

how much odes it take to guess that ants like most other creatures communicate somehow. (not talking) bees, birds, insects...
and these are things that we as humans have known for a long time.

and there is a difference between speaking (hi how ya doing..) and communication. (wink, hi, scream, nudge, frown , smile... ect...)
Reply

Dr.Trax
05-15-2008, 10:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
show me some unbiased scientific evidence and will talk.
I think you are blind........also on The Day Of Judgment you will remain Blind!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2008, 10:15 AM
Ranma when you sincerely believe in something, then reading into it only strengthens that belief.

If you completely reject something, then reading into it only strengthens the rejection because you will find many many excuses to cover it up (kufr , kafara means to cover up..)



This is honestly what i find in every human..
Reply

Snowflake
05-15-2008, 11:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
because at one point you have read it as (speaking human like) and the later it becomes hey this article says....

now as for miracles.

how much odes it take to guess that ants like most other creatures communicate somehow. (not talking) bees, birds, insects...
and these are things that we as humans have known for a long time.

and there is a difference between speaking (hi how ya doing..) and communication. (wink, hi, scream, nudge, frown , smile... ect...)
Hi Ramna,

The Quran confirms the communication between ants, not their linguistic skills. It proves that they convey messages pertaining to self-defence which science has confirmed.

Other than Allah swt, who else could've known ants are able to do this? The communication between ants over 1400 years ago was unheard of since ants unlike other animals couldn't/can't be heard or studied scientifically in those times. There is also no difference in an ant saying 'Danger Alert' through chemical means and a human shouting it verbally. Each can interpret their own form of communication to mean the same.


Furthermore, the Quran claims to be the Truth, so why would it contain 'guesses' that can be refuted later and contradict itself? Science itself has proven that 80% of scientific facts in the Quran are true. The remaining 20% have not yet been disproven but have yet to be proved.


Peace.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dr.Trax
I think you are blind........also on The Day Of Judgment you will remain Blind!
yep i guess so, to bad god hardened my heart. whyd he do that...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2008, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
yep i guess so, to bad god hardened my heart. whyd he do that...
i sed it before n i'll say it again

its your fault :D



*looks at ranma* what you been upto eh :exhausted



never lose hope though :)
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 12:41 PM
:salamext:

^ You do realise that ur snide comments about God will lead you to even deeper in hell?
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 12:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i sed it before n i'll say it again

its your fault :D



*looks at ranma* what you been upto eh :exhausted



never lose hope though :)
well i figure it there is agod he/she/it will say, hey you lived a good life and tried to think instaed of just following. Good job. Ill be beatin g that over your view anytime and day.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 12:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Brok3n -
:salamext:

^ You do realise that ur snide comments about God will lead you to even deeper in hell?
WOOT ill be with the cool people then..
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 12:46 PM
:salamext:

Nah mate you'll be with the HOT ppl :)

“Surely, the disbelievers will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever. (The torment) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair therein. We wronged them not, but they were the wrongdoers. And they will cry: ‘O Malik! Let your Lord make an end of us’ He will say: ‘Surely, you shall abide forever.’ Indeed We have brought the truth to you, but most of you have a hatred for the truth” (Quran 43:74-78)
“…But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water.” (Quran 22:19)

“And you will see the criminals that Day bound together in shackles, their garments of liquid pitch (melted copper) and their faces covered by the Fire.” (Quran 14:49-50)
Want to read all of the coolness? Click here...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2008, 12:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
well i figure it there is agod he/she/it will say, hey you lived a good life and tried to think instaed of just following. Good job. Ill be beatin g that over your view anytime and day.
and what exactly did you think about?

your an atheist so you deny God and his involvement in every blessing, you can mark my words that "good job" will not be sad for such ungratefulness.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 12:56 PM
i dont think any being we would call or consider a god would be so selfcentered.
i figure it would value reason, logic, selflessness and wouldnt care or perhaps be abhorent of being worshiped.
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 12:57 PM
:salamext:

We aint worshipping God for HIS benefit!!!!!! We worship him for OUR benefit - coz the blessings he's given us yeh are uncountable and even if we prayed 24/7 we wudnt be able to thank Him...!!
Reply

ranma1/2
05-15-2008, 12:57 PM
perhaps god will make you an angel, good at following orders and such. while those that do good without desire for enteranl reward get mega props...
Reply

جوري
05-15-2008, 01:01 PM
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنفُسَكُمْ لاَ يَضُرُّكُم مَّن ضَلَّ إِذَا اهْتَدَيْتُمْ إِلَى اللّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ {105}
[Pickthal 5:105] O ye who believe! Ye have charge of your own souls. He who erreth cannot injure you if ye are rightly guided. Unto Allah ye will all return; and then He will inform you of what ye used to do.

I enjoyed the article...
That being said, the above verse I quoted to denote, that it is no use arguing with a kaffir, rather a waste of time, and by same token, you don't want to bring venerated and hallowed texts down to the level of an abject coward.
A person is as smart as they are educated, and some folks reflect as far as their diminutive brain can impart.. which only takes them so far!

:w:
Reply

------
05-15-2008, 01:02 PM
:salamext:

^ Are u on weed?! @ ranma :muddlehea
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2008, 01:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
i dont think any being we would call or consider a god would be so selfcentered.
i figure it would value reason, logic, selflessness and wouldnt care or perhaps be abhorent of being worshiped.
LOL!


reason - i created you , you worship me, i will deal justly and send to either heaven or hell

Logic - A god created you for a PURPOSE! TO WORSHIP HIM

selflessness - you couldnt benefit him and neither does he need you. A selfish person has requirements God has none! God just deems out punishment as he see's best in his justice.



seriously whos been feeding you all this nonsense ranma? selfcentred hogwash lol, i actually laughed out loud !
Reply

Dr.Trax
05-15-2008, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
LOL!

[PIE]Logic - A god created you for a PURPOSE! TO WORSHIP HIM[/PIE]
That's Right!....True
Reply

Fishman
05-15-2008, 03:21 PM
:sl:
Oh, for goodness sake, people, stop trading insults. Doing that is a sign that you can't debate properly.

As for ants-
Quran saying ants talk to eachother: Kind of normal
Quran saying worker ants (and possibly bees as well) are female: Kind of miraculous
:w:
Reply

truemuslim
05-15-2008, 05:55 PM
Jazakallah khair sis!

nd ignore da debate goin on . lol
Reply

Güven
05-15-2008, 06:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Oh, for goodness sake, people, stop trading insults. Doing that is a sign that you can't debate properly.

As for ants-
Quran saying ants talk to eachother: Kind of normal
Quran saying worker ants (and possibly bees as well) are female: Kind of miraculous:w:
Looool :D and Subhanallah It is a miracle, Little insects that are soo smart :)
Reply

Mikayeel
05-15-2008, 07:33 PM
hello ranma, uve lived a good life by rejectin ur own creator? Nt spend time given him thanks for ur well being? Wow... That takes sum doin!
Reply

Azy
05-15-2008, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
As for ants-
Quran saying ants talk to eachother: Kind of normal
Couple of points:
Ants communicating simple alerts to others yeah, but ants communicating or understanding such complex concepts? This is not supported by any scientific explanation.
The second pheromone mentioned is actually used to signal a search for aggressors, not retreat from them or seek shelter.
Same with the last one, the pheromone release seems to have the exact opposite effect that it should.
Ant pheromones have a range of a few centimetres.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
Quran saying worker ants (and possibly bees as well) are female: Kind of miraculous
Not so much considering there's a Jewish story recounting a very similar scenario in which Solomon's armies come across a valley of ants and he talks to a Queen ant. If this story was passed down it would make sense that ants in the later version would be referred to as female.

Also the passage does not differentiate between ant roles (ie worker ants vs. others) as you suggest it does.
Reply

Trumble
05-15-2008, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Other than Allah swt, who else could've known ants are able to do this? The communication between ants over 1400 years ago was unheard of since ants unlike other animals couldn't/can't be heard or studied scientifically in those times. There is also no difference in an ant saying 'Danger Alert' through chemical means and a human shouting it verbally. Each can interpret their own form of communication to mean the same.

The trouble with all this is that it makes a huge assumption - that the Qur'an IS relating some sort of scientific fact about ant behaviour, before moving on to consider whether the claim is correct (or "proved by science" as you prefer). That assumption is both totally unjustifiable and grossly mistaken, just as with most other 'scientific miracles of the Qur'an'.

Nobody needed to know about "communication between ants", chemically or otherwise. The story is an anthropomorphic fable, and for hundreds of years nobody ever thought of it otherwise. The reader is no more supposed to think the ants were 'saying' "danger alert" than having a chat about Solomon. The 'miracle' explanation tries, and fails miserably, to paper over the obvious fact that the idea of ants formulating complex concepts such as "get into your habitations lest Solomon and his hosts break you" is utterly ridiculous - but that is what the Qur'an actually says. It isn't 'wrong', any more than Finding Nemo was a flawed text-book about marine biology. In both cases there was a message for the audience. In neither case did it have anything to do with 'scientific facts'.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-16-2008, 05:58 AM
what you mean the tale of the grasshoper and the ants isnt true?
Reply

Trumble
05-16-2008, 07:00 AM
It's odd where a few minutes research can take you, although I'm afraid I don't have time for any more.

From our old friend Wikipedia (and making no claims for the reliability of the article, or otherwise)

Some suppose the sura, or "chapter," in the Qur'an titled Luqman to be referring to Aesop, a well-known figure in Arabia during the time of Muhammad.
Reply

------
05-16-2008, 08:10 AM
:salamext:

Are you trying to take the mick?
Reply

Trumble
05-16-2008, 01:38 PM
Not at all. I'm just pointing out the cultural context.

If Aesop's fables were widely known then surely the usual (and intended) interpretation of talking animal stories of any sort would be in the same way Aesop used them, that is in a deliberately anthropomorphic style. That might be to make a moral point, philosophical point, or just to entertain. That doesn't prove it wasn't a 'scientific' point being made in the Qur'an, of course, but it is obviously far more probable that it wasn't. Not least because it is hard to think of a 'scientific fact' that could be more completely and utterly useless to most of those hearing or reading it. The Qur'an doesn't provide useless information anywhere...UNTIL people start trying to read 'science' into it where there is none!
Reply

Mikayeel
05-16-2008, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
The trouble with all this is that it makes a huge assumption - that the Qur'an IS relating some sort of scientific fact about ant behaviour, before moving on to consider whether the claim is correct (or "proved by science" as you prefer). That assumption is both totally unjustifiable and grossly mistaken, just as with most other 'scientific miracles of the Qur'an'.

Nobody needed to know about "communication between ants", chemically or otherwise. The story is an anthropomorphic fable, and for hundreds of years nobody ever thought of it otherwise. The reader is no more supposed to think the ants were 'saying' "danger alert" than having a chat about Solomon. The 'miracle' explanation tries, and fails miserably, to paper over the obvious fact that the idea of ants formulating complex concepts such as "get into your habitations lest Solomon and his hosts break you" is utterly ridiculous - but that is what the Qur'an actually says. It isn't 'wrong', any more than Finding Nemo was a flawed text-book about marine biology. In both cases there was a message for the audience. In neither case did it have anything to do with 'scientific facts'.

very disrespectfull, sorry but expected more from some one of your caliber.....
Reply

truemuslim
05-16-2008, 06:55 PM
i really didnt know its possible to debate with this subject.:mmokay:
Reply

Trumble
05-16-2008, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamada
very disrespectfull, sorry but expected more from some one of your caliber.....
"Disrespectful" to whom or what?
Reply

Mikayeel
05-16-2008, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
"Disrespectful" to whom or what?
to 'Finding Nemo maybe'? Never mind if u think u did nothing wrong... it might just be me
Reply

Trumble
05-16-2008, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamada
to Finding Nemo maybe? Never mind if u think u did nothing wrong... it might just be me
No, it was probably me, as Brok3n said something similar as well. Either way, I had no intention of being disrespectful to anyone or anything and apologise if anybody thinks that I was!
Reply

Chuck
05-17-2008, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Nobody needed to know about "communication between ants", chemically or otherwise. The story is an anthropomorphic fable...
That is the bias right there. You from the get go believe it is just a fable and that is end of the story.

As far as complex communication among the ants goes, nobody can prove that they don't have complex communication skills. On the other hand, considering how complex their societies are, it is more reasonable to think that they have complex complex communication mechanisms. Not on par with humans but still higher in the animal kingdom with possible complex structures. Their sound based communication is only recently discovered. Ants are among few animals that show interactive teaching and learning behavior.

For references:
Certain species of ant use a technique known as 'tandem running' to lead another ant from the nest to a food source. Signals between the two ants control both the speed and course of the run. It is believed to be the first time a demonstration of 'formal' teaching has been recognised in any non-human animal.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0113120042.htm

Many species make tiny squeaks that people can hear if they hold an ant close enough. The rich chemical communication of ants has claimed more attention from scientists in recent decades, but a small band of researchers has been sorting out ant sounds.

Biologists have long realized that ants can hear with their knees, picking up vibrations humming through leaves or nests or even the ground. In the past 20 years, researchers interpreting the messages that thrum in substrates have revealed a sort of ant-ernet, zinging with communiqués about lost relatives, great food, free rides for hitchhikers, caterpillars in search of ant partners, and impending doom. Improvements in recording equipment are expanding the range of ant chirps and buzzes available to human eavesdroppers. Some scientists are even challenging decades of textbook truths and suggesting that ants might also be able to detect certain kinds of airborne sounds.

http://www.phschool.com/science/scie...ts_squeak.html
Reply

Trumble
05-17-2008, 06:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
That is the bias right there. You from the get go believe it is just a fable and that is end of the story.
You aren't paying attention. What I said was

That doesn't prove it wasn't a 'scientific' point being made in the Qur'an, of course, but it is obviously far more probable that it wasn't.
To come up with a remotely plausible case to the contrary you need to suggest a remotely plausible explanation as to why the author of the Qur'an should wish to include a lecture on "complex communication" between ants. You then need to explain why an accurate description was not given, with no cognition of complex concepts assumed on the ants' part and no need for "interpretation". Sorry, but the 'miracle' is just wishful thinking, as usual.
Reply

Chuck
05-17-2008, 10:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
You aren't paying attention. What I said was



To come up with a remotely plausible case to the contrary you need to suggest a remotely plausible explanation as to why the author of the Qur'an should wish to include a lecture on "complex communication" between ants. You then need to explain why an accurate description was not given, with no cognition of complex concepts assumed on the ants' part and no need for "interpretation". Sorry, but the 'miracle' is just wishful thinking, as usual.
What you said was clear which I responded to that you consider it a fable and you don't want to look any further than that. Your above quote doesn't change a thing regarding that. As far as what is more probable, it is more probable that it mentions an incident that happened, actually it is clear from the context that it mentions an actual incident.

And I'm not saying it was a lecture on "complex communication," however it mentions an incident that mentioned communication among ants, which is amazing in its self. Ayas in Quran generally mentions lot of things in nature which lead early muslim scholars in the right direction. For example, Abu Yusuf Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi, a Muslim scientist, in 796 AD came to the conclusion that time, space, motion and body are all relative which was influenced by the ayas relating to time in Quran.

Like:
"But lo! a day with Allah is a thousand years of what you reckon."
(Qur'an, 22:47)

"He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that you reckon."
(Qur'an, 32:5)

"From Allah, Lord of the ascending (undulating) pathways, whereby the Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years."
(Qur'an, 70:4)
It was not hunky dory all the time, ayas have caused problems and debates too for example:
"And you see the mountains and think that they are stationary but they actually move as the clouds; the doing of Allah, who perfected all things. Lo! He is Informed of all that you do."
(Qur'an, 27:88)
Above aya stirred a lot of debate among the scholars in mid century about whether to interpret it in present or future tense. Most scholars tried to rationalize it with the information they had and interpreted it only in future tense, however, some with stronger faith also accepted in present tense like Al-Qurtubi who quotes a saying from Ibn Abbas that "the mountains are standing but also moving" meaning they appear standing but they are moving and believed that an unseen phenomenon has been mentioned by God. Al-kindi also discussed this with regards to his theory of relativity.
Literal translation of that aya is in present tense. However, linguistically, correct me if I'm wrong, aya is correct in both present tense and future tense.
Reply

ranma1/2
05-18-2008, 04:06 AM
soa re we to say that the story fo the ant and the grass hopper that shows ants communicate on equal par then?
Reply

Chuck
05-18-2008, 06:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
soa re we to say that the story fo the ant and the grass hopper that shows ants communicate on equal par then?
Why?
Reply

Chuck
05-19-2008, 07:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
soa re we to say that the story fo the ant and the grass hopper that shows ants communicate on equal par then?
Why?
I think I'm not gonna have a reply, so I'll explain. Those fables are not meant to be real incident, fables employ animal or other non-human object to convey a moral lesson. As far as moral lessen goes, here Quran's verse is giving moral lesson too but through revelation of an actual incident in the past. In Trumble's opinion author of the verse did not mean it to be a real incident, however, taking into consideration the context, theme of the surah, and other related things it is a narration of real incident which came as mainly as a response to Qurash but most importantly drawing examples for believers and for those who have fear of God.

I suppose it is revelant to put the theme and subject matter of this surah here:

The Surah consists of two discourses, the first from the beginning of the Surah to the end of verse 58, and the second from verse 59 to the end of the Surah.

The theme of the first discourse is that only those people can benefit from the guidance of the Quran and become worthy of the good promises made in it, who accept the realities which this Book presents as the basic realities of the universe, and then follow up their belief with obedience and submission in their practical lives as well. But the greatest hindrance for man to follow this way is the denial of the Hereafter. For it makes him irresponsible, selfish and given to worldly life, which in turn makes it impossible for him to submit himself before God and to accept the moral restrictions on his lusts and desires. After this introduction three types of character have been presented.

The first type is characterized by Pharaoh and the chiefs of Thamud and the rebels of the people of Lot, who were all heedless of the accountability of the Hereafter and had consequently become the slaves of the world. These people did not believe even after seeing the miracles. Rather they turned against those who invited them to goodness and piety. They persisted in their evil ways which are held in abhorrence by every sensible person. They did not heed the admonition even until a moment before they were overtaken by the scourge of Allah.

The second type of character is of the Prophet Solomon (peace be upon him), who had been blessed by God with wealth and kingdom and grandeur to an extent undreamt of by the chiefs of the disbelievers of Makkah. But, since he regarded himself as answerable before God and had the feeling that whatever he had was only due to Allah's bounty, he had adopted the attitude of obedience before Him and there was no tinge of vanity in his character.

The third type is of the queen of Sheba, who ruled over a most wealthy and well known people in the history of Arabia. She possessed all those means of life, which could cause a person to become vain and conceited. Her wealth and possessions far exceeded the wealth and possessions of the Quraish. Then she professed shirk, which was not only an ancestral way of life with her, but she had to follow it in order to maintain her position as a ruler. Therefore, it was much more difficult for her to give up shirk and adopt the way of Tauhid than it could be for a common mushrik. But when the Truth became evident to her, nothing could stop her from accepting it. Her deviation was, in fact, due to her being born and brought up in a polytheistic environment and not because of her being a slave to her lusts and desires. Her conscience was not devoid of the sense of accountability before God.

In the second discourse, at the outset, attention has been drawn to some of the most glaring and visible realities of the universe, and the disbelievers of Makkah have been asked one question after the other to the effect : "Do these realities testify to the creed of shirk which you are following, or to the truth of Tauhid to which the Qur'an invites you?" After this the real malady of the disbelievers has been pointed out, saying, "The thing which has blinded them and made them insensitive to every glaring reality is their denial of the Hereafter. This same thing has rendered every matter and affair of life non-serious for them. For, when according to them, everything has to become dust ultimately, and the whole struggle of life is purposeless and without an object before it, the truth and falsehood are equal and alike. Therefore, the question whether one's system of life is based on the right or wrong foundations, becomes meaningless for him."

But the discourse, as outlined above, is not meant to dissuade the Prophet and the Muslims from calling the obdurate and heedless people to the way of Tauhid; it is, in fact, intended to arouse them from their slumber. That is why in vv. 67-93 certain things have been said repeatedly in order to produce in the people a sense of the Hereafter, to warn them of the consequences of being heedless of it, and to convince them of its coining, like an eye witness of something, who convinces the other person of it, who has not seen it.

In conclusion, the real invitation of the Quran that is, the invitation to serve One Allah alone, has been presented in a concise but forceful manner, and the people warned that accepting it would be to their own advantage and rejecting it to their own disadvantage. For if they deferred their faith until they saw those Signs of God after the appearance of which they would be left with no choice but to believe and submit, they should bear in mind the fact that that would be the time of judgment and believing then would be of no avail.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau27.html
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-23-2010, 09:59 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-09-2010, 03:11 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-20-2009, 10:20 PM
  4. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-10-2008, 04:44 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!