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AntiKarateKid
05-15-2008, 04:58 PM
I was wondering about this, if Shaitan tempts us who tempted him? Or is it that we ourselves have the choice to make good and bad decisions and Shaitan only furthers the bad decisions, and ultimately it is us who decide?

I think I'm confusing myself, any answers?
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'Abd al-Baari
05-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Thread Approved
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------
05-15-2008, 06:57 PM
:salamext:

No one tempted him, he was a Jinn - he had free will of whether to obey Allaah or not.
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AntiKarateKid
05-15-2008, 07:58 PM
so then what is the purpose of Shaitan again? Would we be just as disobeying without him?
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aadil77
05-15-2008, 08:22 PM
we're on this planet cause of him, so if we weren't we would be in the lower heavens not disobeying

i think?

If shaytaan hadn't disobeyed, then adam and eve wouldn't have got temptated, then they wouldn't have got sent to earth etc, hence no disobeying
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AntiKarateKid
05-15-2008, 08:23 PM
but if we have free will, wouldnt we disobey Allah sometimes?
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2008, 08:28 PM
thats a brilliant question! mashaAllaah

bro i think it would be better to ask a scholar because im curious now


who tempted shaytaan to disobey Allaah?! :O

all scholars say "out of pride and arrogance", hmm *thinks*
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aadil77
05-15-2008, 08:29 PM
I don't think so, because we wouldn't have tasks to do like they angels and jinn, because we'd be enjoying the heavens so I don't think we'd be complaining,

Anyway these are just theories, who knows adam and eve may not have reproduced when in heavens, so we may not have existed etc
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aadil77
05-15-2008, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
thats a brilliant question! mashaAllaah

bro i think it would be better to ask a scholar because im curious now


who tempted shaytaan to disobey Allaah?! :O

all scholars say "out of pride and arrogance", hmm *thinks*
yep shaytaan didn't want to bow down to someone made of mud out of pride
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-15-2008, 09:33 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
I was wondering about this, if Shaitan tempts us who tempted him? Or is it that we ourselves have the choice to make good and bad decisions and Shaitan only furthers the bad decisions, and ultimately it is us who decide?

I think I'm confusing myself, any answers?
From what I've understood, there are two ways we are led to sin, one is from the whisperings of Shaytan. This is the primary way because this is what Allaah mentions the most in the Qur'an in the verses where he warns us of Shaytan. The second, is due to the evil within ourselves called the Nafs, and this is the secondary source because Allaah has mentioned the nafs fewer times in the Qur'an as compared to the number of times He mentioned Shaytan. So, Allaah knows best, perhaps as it was mentioned above, since Shaytan is a Jinn who has free will, he might have succumbed to his nafs which led him to become arrogant when he was commanded to prostrate.

Of course, this is based on what came to my mind when I read your question so it is only my thoughts. Insha'Allaah you should ask a scholar. Try asking at islamtoday.com and posting your answer here. This is a very interesting question :)

Originally Posted by aadil77
we're on this planet cause of him, so if we weren't we would be in the lower heavens not disobeying

i think?

If shaytaan hadn't disobeyed, then adam and eve wouldn't have got temptated, then they wouldn't have got sent to earth etc, hence no disobeying
This is incorrect Akhi, we would have been on Earth regardless because Allaah azza wajal says:

{And [mention, O Muúammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."}[al-Baqarah; 30]
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truemuslim
05-15-2008, 10:39 PM
I thought the shaitan tempts the jinn too tho
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*charisma*
05-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Allah gives all of His commissioned creatures the absolute freedom to obey or disobey Him, because whether we choose believe in Him or deny him, agree or disagree, it will not affect Him in the slightest--it affects us. Allah could've annihilated Iblees at the moment he disobeyed Him, He could've even stopped his refusal, but He didn't.

Iblees's arrogance kept him from prostrating to Adam (pbuh). Then, through Allah's will, Shaytan was granted respite till the Day of Judgment to mislead us.

He (Iblees) said (as a justification to his refusal): "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!" [17:62]
but if we have free will, wouldnt we disobey Allah sometimes?
We do disobey Allah. In fact, we probably do it everyday. Allah doesn't control what we do. Unlike the angels, we were given the capacity to carry knowledge and learn; therefore, we have the ability to process thoughts and know that there are consequences to our actions. Our conscience, knowledge, taqwah, and iman prevents us from from disobeying Allah. When we lose touch with those abstracts and we aren't able to control our nafs (self) and desires, we are open to shaytan's suggestions; but even shaytan doesn't have the ability to force us to disobey Allah which is why we are held accountable for all that we do.

There is a saying that goes something like "Offer your companion a date, and if he rejects it, then give him a stone." (I heard this in a lecture I think and I wrote it down). The commentary that goes along with it was that Allah provides us guidance (the date) and when we reject it, the devils stray us into mischief and misguidance (the stone).



If anyone withdraws himself from remembrance of (Allah) Most Gracious, We appoint for him an evil one, to be an intimate companion to him.

Such (evil ones) really hinder them from the Path, but they think that they are being guided aright!

At length, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says (to his evil companion): "Would that between me and thee were the distance of East and West!" Ah! evil is the companion (indeed)!

When ye have done wrong, it will avail you nothing, that Day, that ye shall be partners in Punishment!
[43:36-39]

so then what is the purpose of Shaitan again? Would we be just as disobeying without him?
I don't know if I can answer this question with proper knowledge, but I'll try.

Allah knows the outcome of everything He creates. When Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala created Adam (pbuh), He knew he was going to disobey Him (He knew, that doesn't mean He forced him to do so). Again, we all have freewill, and it is our actions that result in consequences. Our disobedience doesn't negate our freewill.

Adam (pbuh) could've continuously sinned even after being removed from Paradise, but his shame, resentment, and humility was manifest and Allah forgave him for his sincerity. Then, after forgiving Adam, Allah sent him to earth.

It is wrong to blame Adam for our living on earth because this was not the result of his sin. Allah already decreed for Adam to be sent to earth even before creating him:

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."
[2:30]

Adam's disobedience came from forgetfulness. When we forget the commands of Allah, we tend to run with our ardent desires and disobey Him.

We had already, beforehand, taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot: and We found on his part no firm resolve. [20:115]

It became knowledge to Adam that the shaytan is a deceiver (and even though he forgot Allah's commands, the desires of eating from the tree and living eternally were a preoccupation) and we are granted respite, guidance and the abode of paradise only through the worship to Allah.

We disobey Allah sometimes out of ignorance, arrogance, impatience and anger, whether shaytan is present or not. They are qualities that are weaknesses, characteristics of a human being, yet nonetheless controllable when seeking refuge from shaytan and seeking assistance and guidance from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

Wa allahul 'aleem.

fi aman Allah
wa'alaikum asalaam
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------
05-16-2008, 08:18 AM
:salamext:

but if we have free will, wouldnt we disobey Allah sometimes?
We do. :-\ (Astagfirullah imsad)
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'Abd-al Latif
05-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
I was wondering about this, if Shaitan tempts us who tempted him? Or is it that we ourselves have the choice to make good and bad decisions and Shaitan only furthers the bad decisions, and ultimately it is us who decide?

I think I'm confusing myself, any answers?
:salamext:

No one tempted him, he became arragont because he claimed to be suprior to Adam (a.s). We human beings have been created with evil as well as with good, we have the quality to be humble and kind or we can be full of pride and arragonce.

The jinns have the same quality, so when Allah created Adam (a.s) He command the angels to prostrate to him. ibless (shaytan) who was among the levels of the angels because of his rightousness became arragont and refused out of arragonce, and from then on became the lowes of the low. Allah says:

So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them, Except Iblees (Satan), he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. (Allaah) said: 'O Iblees (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands. Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?' [Iblees (Satan)] said: 'I am better than he. You created me from fire, and You created him from clay.' (Allaah) said: "Then get out from here; for verily, you are outcast.
[Saad 38:71-85]

Originally Posted by www.islamqa.com
Iblees disobeyed his Lord and refused, stubbornly and arrogantly, to prostrate to Adam. This indicates the serious nature of self-admiration and pride. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound from that.

The fact the Iblees believed in the existence of Allaah, acknowledged His Might and swore an oath by that did not benefit him at all, because his belief was cancelled out by his stubbornness, pride and arrogant behaviour before Allaah when he refused to obey His command.
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cute123
05-18-2008, 06:55 AM
Very good quesion. But at times i feel its mans cunningness , inside himself (not the best , pious ones) its as if the road is very clear, if you want to defeat the shaytan you can , there is no way that you cannot , with the help of ALLAH TALLAH . And morover if we are most true in our efforts , Its like our full capacities should be reached first before blaming shaytan. The famous Hadith goes ,

Narrated Sad bin Abi Waqqas:
Then Allah's Apostle said, "O Ibn Al-Khattab! By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Never does Satan find you going on a way, but he takes another way other than yours." [Bukhari]

but obviously HE guides whom HE wills, but He is the best judge of all . We should be continously doing good , refrain from the bad, do such things that attract HIS mercy and pray for HIS guidance, He is the one who can make our lives successful.

At times I feel , shaytan just blocks us to utilize the means provided to us to reach ALLAH TALLAH, and our goal ; other than that he does not has any power on us. The argument on the day of judgement between the man and the devil.

Surah (Ibrahim) 14:22

وَقَالَ الشَّيْطَـنُ لَمَّا قُضِىَ الاٌّمْرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَعَدَكُمْ وَعْدَ الْحَقِّ وَوَعَدتُّكُمْ فَأَخْلَفْتُكُمْ وَمَا كَانَ لِىَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِّن سُلْطَـنٍ إِلاَّ أَن دَعَوْتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِى فَلاَ تَلُومُونِى وَلُومُواْ أَنفُسَكُمْ مَّآ أَنَاْ بِمُصْرِخِكُمْ وَمَآ أَنتُمْ بِمُصْرِخِىَّ إِنِّى كَفَرْتُ بِمَآ أَشْرَكْتُمُونِ مِن قَبْلُ إِنَّ الظَّـلِمِينَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

(And Shaytan will say when the matter has been decided: "Verily, Allah promised you a promise of truth. And I too promised you, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except that I called you, and you responded to me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves. I cannot help you, nor can you help me. I deny your former act in associating me as a partner with Allah. Verily, there is a painful torment for the wrongdoers.'')

In any matter when so ever we use our brains instead of choosing the right , that is what shaytan tempts us too and tries hard to sell this world to us in exchange of the above, as this is it that we see, we fall prey too.

The fact is, death is ascertain, as we see our relatives die, the azaab of qabr is ascertain , the resurrection is ascertain, time is never going to come back. I mean if put things together ,
I mean is shaytan still to be blamed , when the truth is clear , the whole world should be just running towards ALLAH TALLAH to beg for HIS mercy but its not so.

These are just my thoughts, so please bear with me if its being to rude.

Asma
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jibreelk
06-06-2008, 12:05 AM
Salamo Aleikum
Shaitan is only a weak enemy as the quran states
We have our nafst as free will creation just like the jinn, and we make sins based on that. Shaitan only whispers
Allah knows best
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Malaikah
06-06-2008, 02:05 AM
:sl:

As Prophet Yusuf said in the Quran...

"Nor do I absolve my own self (of blame): the (human) soul is certainly prone to evil, unless my Lord do bestow His Mercy: but surely my Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
[12:53]
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Woodrow
06-06-2008, 02:14 AM
What does the Qur'an say about the shaitan?

In reading 2:34-36 it seems to say Iblis was a shaitan and that a shaitan is one who rejects faith.

5:90-91 tells us that the shaitan's plan is to hinder us and entice us with intoxicants and gambling.

5:17 speaks of every accursed shaitan

Is shaitan a specific being or is shaitan anything or anybody that tempts us to reject Allaah(swt)?

Perhaps Iblis did not need to be tempted as he was of the shaitan and by being a shaitan was the tempter?
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Armand
06-06-2008, 03:42 AM
The Ego tempted Shaitan. I don't know the Islamic term for ego, but it isn't nafs.
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^[AnKaBooT]^
06-25-2008, 12:41 PM
shaitan was jealous that allah chose beings made of sand to be his representative and not fire when shaitan ruled the 1st heaven and was king of earth.He thought he was second to god.But allah (SWT) taught adam(may peace be upon him) the characteristics of every thing tat existed and would exist and still existing.:raging:And so he decided not to obey god's orders:raging:
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SixTen
06-25-2008, 12:54 PM
As far as we are told, devil was not temptd by anyone. His disobediance was by arrogance alone.

The shaitaan, tries tempt you to do things you know are wrong - so with faith - it is possible to counteract it as you are able to understand that a certain desire is caused by shaaitan and hence you will be more motivated to not do it.
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Faisal Pervaiz
12-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Jazak allh for the info
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Zamtsa
12-29-2008, 07:45 PM
Rasulullah said "For each of you Allah has sent a Qarin from Jin" the Shahaba asked "And to you too?," Rasulullah answered "Yes and to me too, but Allah help me from him, so he became Muslim and only instruct me to do good."

Infact because Jin aren't suffering any temptation from other being, the Jin aren't better in Honour than us.

Syaithan from Insi (human being) tempted by Syaithan Jin, but the Syaithan Insi got more calmer everytime following the desire of Syaithan Jin.


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.
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alcurad
12-31-2008, 05:28 AM
saying I was tempted by the devil so I sinned is no more than an excuse, shaytan means he who strays, it goes for humans and non humans as brother woodrow mentioned to the affect.
something associated with 'shaytan' would certainly be avoided by most people, regardless of shaytan being a single being people associate all the evil in the world to or not.
Iblees had a choice, everyone does, for all we know even he has a choice of repenting as well.
another thing, a post earlier stated that Adam was in heaven, but since the qur'an and ahadeeth point to the fact that no one has entered it or seen what's in it etc, this by no means is confirmed, just like the question of angels having free will or not, assuming they're all copies of each other, again the matter of their free will is not discussed thoroughly in the qur'an or sunnah, and so we can't simply state that they don't have free will, some scholars say that Iblees was one of the angels and he disobeyed, also the angels questioned god on his creating Adam,indicating free will.
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sefedinmuqaj
01-01-2009, 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
I was wondering about this, if Shaitan tempts us who tempted him? Or is it that we ourselves have the choice to make good and bad decisions and Shaitan only furthers the bad decisions, and ultimately it is us who decide?

I think I'm confusing myself, any answers?
Bismilahi Rrahmani Rrahim

Brother we can find the answers to many questions in the Qur’an without the need to ask scholars we just have to read it and study it carefully!
This question you are asking about Sheytan I had on my mind also one time and I found the answer in the Qur’an.
So here is the answer.

First of all Sheytan was a Jinn as the Qur’an says:

“Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!” Qur’an 18:50

So he was not an Angel therefore he was not unmistakable.
The nature of Jinn is very similar to that of the Humans.
So Sheytan was given a high rank among the angels therefore this position made him arrogant.
Just like humans when they get ranks or positions they become arrogant in general.
So when Allah s.w.t. created Adam and give this position to him Iblis became jealous.
So it was the jealousy that tempted Sheytan!
It is the same with children (and believe me I know this cause I have three).
When a younger child is born all the love and care from the parents is focused on him therefore the older child feels abandoned and gets jealous.
One other important issue is that Jinn are created from fire.
And as we know if you throw more fuel on fire it burns more.
So when Allah s.w.t. said to Iblis:

“((Allah)) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.” Qur’an 7:18

Iblis became more jealous and angry and said:

“(Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,” Qur’an 15:39

So in short this would be my answer to your question.

Assalamu aleykum wa rahmetu Allahu wa barakatuhu!
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